Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
On 11/01/2006, at 4:34 PM, M. Warner Losh wrote: In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 : vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' : device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' : class= base peripheral : : This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB : attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is : it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Apparently, : there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't : support it either. It does support the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface. However, The standard costs $1000 (if you are a member of the SD Association, which I think is $1800 a year), and comes with an NDA so restrictive that you'll be lucky to release a binary only version of your driver. I'm working on a port of FreeBSD to an embedded platform. For that platform, we'll need to read data from MMC/SD cards. To do that, we'll need a mmc/sd disk driver, a mmc/sd bus and a mmc/sd bridge. This should give us a fairly good architecture to write a bridge driver for the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface should someone ever figure out the interface. Tantalizing clues are available for the dilligent searcher on the web (the wikipedia entry for SD cards is especially enlightening). I have no plans to implement a the standard SD interface. Apparently there are linux patches which work with some SD host controllers. Maybe these will be useful: http://www.martinhenze.de/2006/02/04/sd-card-reader-and-ubuntu-linux/ http://list.drzeus.cx/pipermail/sdhci-devel/2006-January/000347.html (gleaned from SLUG IRCers) ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sam Lawrance [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : On 11/01/2006, at 4:34 PM, M. Warner Losh wrote: : : In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : : : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 : rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 : : vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' : : device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' : : class= base peripheral : : : : This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no : USB : : attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is : : it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? : : : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. : Apparently, : : there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't : : support it either. : : It does support the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface. However, : The standard costs $1000 (if you are a member of the SD Association, : which I think is $1800 a year), and comes with an NDA so restrictive : that you'll be lucky to release a binary only version of your driver. : : I'm working on a port of FreeBSD to an embedded platform. For that : platform, we'll need to read data from MMC/SD cards. To do that, : we'll need a mmc/sd disk driver, a mmc/sd bus and a mmc/sd bridge. : This should give us a fairly good architecture to write a bridge : driver for the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface should someone : ever figure out the interface. Tantalizing clues are available for : the dilligent searcher on the web (the wikipedia entry for SD cards is : especially enlightening). I have no plans to implement a the standard : SD interface. : : Apparently there are linux patches which work with some SD host : controllers. Maybe these will be useful: : : http://www.martinhenze.de/2006/02/04/sd-card-reader-and-ubuntu-linux/ : http://list.drzeus.cx/pipermail/sdhci-devel/2006-January/000347.html : : (gleaned from SLUG IRCers) Thanks. I'll have to see if I can use the code here to good effect. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 12:00:31PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:32:16 -0800 From: Darren Pilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device? To: 'M. Warner Losh' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ... Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) The SD protocols aren't open standards. Ricoh can't legally include information about the protocols in their documentation. Without working implementation of the SDA's standards, FreeBSD is stuck. I don't blame the funding behind FreeBSD development for not ponying up the dosh; I think such fees are extortion made legal by intellectual property laws. But hey, it's the business. It's not like we're trying to make a good, free product everyone can use, right? IANAL, but it sounds like there are more serious issues than the money. If that NDA says some fairly typical things, and if the FreeBSD organization (or any individual developer) poneys up the money for the standard and signs the associated NDA, then either that developer or the FreeBSD group as a whole might then be permanently barred from writing open source code to implement the protocol, as a working implementation could disclose protocol information covered as a secret by the NDA. I'm sure that's *not* what you want to see. -- Clifton -- Clifton Royston -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] / [EMAIL PROTECTED] President - I and I Computing * http://www.iandicomputing.com/ Custom programming, network design, systems and network consulting services ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
From: Clifton Royston If that NDA says some fairly typical things, and if the FreeBSD organization (or any individual developer) poneys up the money for the standard and signs the associated NDA, then either that developer or the FreeBSD group as a whole might then be permanently barred from writing open source code to implement the protocol, as a working implementation could disclose protocol information covered as a secret by the NDA. I'm sure that's *not* what you want to see. In a roundabout way, that's exactly what I'm saying. The SDA, by their actions, doesn't give a rats posterior about freedom. They're falsely convinced technology standards are a revenue vector and are surviving solely upon Apple, Microsoft, Dell, HP, Sony, Samsung and all the other huge companies having the capital to just pony up their extortionist fees rather than making a moral stand. The only reason I have any SD hardware at all is because it was a non-removable option in the notebook I bought. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) Have you seen this datasheet from TI? http://focus.ti.com/docs/apps/catalog/resources/appnoteabstract.jhtml?abstractName=sprue30 It's not the one you are looking for, but it does at least give register-level documentation on the implementation in that particular chip, and TI devices tend to share peripherals. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Pilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : From: Brooks Davis : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [ Ricoh SD Bus Host Adapter, PCI ID 0x08221180 ] : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. : Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer : it. Linux doesn't support it either. : : That's odd, because Ricoh provides technical documentation upon : request via the LSI Contact Us[1] page on their website. : : 1: http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/mail.html Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) The SD protocols aren't open standards. Ricoh can't legally include information about the protocols in their documentation. Without working implementation of the SDA's standards, FreeBSD is stuck. I don't blame the funding behind FreeBSD development for not ponying up the dosh; I think such fees are extortion made legal by intellectual property laws. But hey, it's the business. It's not like we're trying to make a good, free product everyone can use, right? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
From: Darren Pilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device? Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:32:16 -0800 From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Pilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : From: Brooks Davis : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [ Ricoh SD Bus Host Adapter, PCI ID 0x08221180 ] : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. : Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer : it. Linux doesn't support it either. : : That's odd, because Ricoh provides technical documentation upon : request via the LSI Contact Us[1] page on their website. : : 1: http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/mail.html Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) The SD protocols aren't open standards. Ricoh can't legally include information about the protocols in their documentation. Without working implementation of the SDA's standards, FreeBSD is stuck. I don't blame the funding behind FreeBSD development for not ponying up the dosh; I think such fees are extortion made legal by intellectual property laws. The SD protocols are protected by trade secret means. Some of the protocol has leaked out, and can easily be implemented, once someone knows how to send the protocol to the devices on the bus. There may be some patent issues with the DRM control that's in the SD parts that may be problematic. There's no way to know all the issues because of the NDAs. The SDA Standard SD Host Interface is covered, as far as the basics go, should be reverse engineerable. There's enough data floating out there which should help those trying to engineer it. I don't think I'll be doing it, however. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : On Tue, 10 Jan 2006, M. Warner Losh wrote: : : Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write : the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said : that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't : document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same : way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) : : Have you seen this datasheet from TI? : : http://focus.ti.com/docs/apps/catalog/resources/appnoteabstract.jhtml?abstractName=sprue30 : : It's not the one you are looking for, but it does at least give : register-level documentation on the implementation in that particular : chip, and TI devices tend to share peripherals. Thanks for the pointer... Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 03:35:51PM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Brooks == Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : Brooks On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 : rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' device = 'SD Bus Host : Adapter' class = base peripheral : : This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB : attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is : it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? : : Brooks People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. : Brooks Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer : Brooks it. Linux doesn't support it either. : : Wasn't there a disk extension to project evil? : : It's been discussed, but I don't know of any actual work on it. I've seen some work on it. However, the interface isn't as easy to emulate as the network layer... Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 : vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' : device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' : class= base peripheral : : This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB : attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is : it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Apparently, : there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't : support it either. It does support the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface. However, The standard costs $1000 (if you are a member of the SD Association, which I think is $1800 a year), and comes with an NDA so restrictive that you'll be lucky to release a binary only version of your driver. I'm working on a port of FreeBSD to an embedded platform. For that platform, we'll need to read data from MMC/SD cards. To do that, we'll need a mmc/sd disk driver, a mmc/sd bus and a mmc/sd bridge. This should give us a fairly good architecture to write a bridge driver for the SDA Standard SD Host Adapter Interface should someone ever figure out the interface. Tantalizing clues are available for the dilligent searcher on the web (the wikipedia entry for SD cards is especially enlightening). I have no plans to implement a the standard SD interface. Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
From: Brooks Davis On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: Has anyone had a look at the following: [ Ricoh SD Bus Host Adapter, PCI ID 0x08221180 ] People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't support it either. That's odd, because Ricoh provides technical documentation upon request via the LSI Contact Us[1] page on their website. 1: http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/mail.html ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
In message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Darren Pilgrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : From: Brooks Davis : On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: : Has anyone had a look at the following: : : [ Ricoh SD Bus Host Adapter, PCI ID 0x08221180 ] : : People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Apparently, : there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't : support it either. : : That's odd, because Ricoh provides technical documentation upon request via : the LSI Contact Us[1] page on their website. : : 1: http://www.ricoh.com/LSI/mail.html Are you sure they provide technical documentation sufficent to write the driver? The last time I asked, I got a nice document that said that it implemented the sds standard sd host interface, but didn't document what that was. TI and winbond chips datasheets are the same way. Prove me wrong. I'd love it :-) Warner ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: Has anyone had a look at the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' class= base peripheral This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer it. Linux doesn't support it either. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form X is the one, true Y is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 pgposWzOtXGs6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
Brooks == Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: Has anyone had a look at the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' class = base peripheral This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? Brooks People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Brooks Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer Brooks it. Linux doesn't support it either. Wasn't there a disk extension to project evil? Dave. -- |David Gilbert, Independent Contractor. | Two things can be | |Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| equal if and only if they | |http://daveg.ca | are precisely opposite. | =GLO ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ricoh PCI to SD device?
On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 03:35:51PM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: Brooks == Brooks Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Brooks On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 11:12:30AM -0500, David Gilbert wrote: Has anyone had a look at the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:1:2: class=0x080501 card=0x01aa1028 chip=0x08221180 rev=0x17 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Ricoh Co Ltd' device = 'SD Bus Host Adapter' class = base peripheral This shows up on my new Dell XPS-170 laptop. Since there is no USB attachment for the SD card reader, I can only surmise that this is it. Is someone looking at this, or is this completely new? Brooks People are looking at it, but there are no docs available. Brooks Apparently, there is some work being done to reverse engineer Brooks it. Linux doesn't support it either. Wasn't there a disk extension to project evil? It's been discussed, but I don't know of any actual work on it. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form X is the one, true Y is FALSE. PGP fingerprint 655D 519C 26A7 82E7 2529 9BF0 5D8E 8BE9 F238 1AD4 pgpiBv89FJTt8.pgp Description: PGP signature
