Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
The video chip is a Castle Rock with mpeg2 decoder. The Linux driver of the epia-m is made of 2 piece, a kernel module and a X module. Both are only binary, and the installation is a pain because you can't recompile the kernel, you must use the original kernel. For example you can't patch the kernel for the ata133 driver, so no dma is used... otherwise you must modify kernel symbols by hand. BTW read this thread on the via forum, there are some news from via! http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=31501 Hope this help. bye Joe O wrote: If the linux XFree86 4.x driver was correctly written you should be able to dump it into /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers and use it. One of the goals with XFree86 4.x was that the X server modules be OS independent. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: :I can't find any online specs to tell me if the graphics part of the :Northbridge has understands the VESA stuff. Does the XFree86 vesa :driver work? : :Also found this forum discussion... : :http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=30617 M 9000 X11 update: The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. I *think* the EPIA M 9000 is using a variant of the S3 Savage, but if so they have heavily modified the chip. I have had no luck trying to override the chip spec in my X configuration. -- Firewire update. I can't seemlessly connect and disconnect firewire devices, but if I connect the firewire HD up *before* kldload'ing the drivers, it works. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message -- Fabrizio Fresco CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message and its attachments are addressed solely to the persons above and may contain confidential information. If you have received the message in error, be informed that any use of the content hereof is prohibited. Please return it immediately to the sender and delete the message. Should you have any questions, please contact us by replying to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you www.telecomitalia.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
David Schultz wrote: Thus spake Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. Usually it's because they (wrongly) think it will protect their trade secrets from competitors. That's part of it. I don't know what my competitors know, but if they don't know the algorithms we're using, we're not going to make it easy to find out. If they do know, we're not going to make it easy to verify what they do know. (But if they know that we don't know what they do know... yeah, you know the drill. :-) The other bit is that it can expose some glaring hardware kludges and actual design and implementation errors which can be embarrassing. To an engineer, this is just routine stuff. To a suit, this seems like a death knell. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
:I can't find any online specs to tell me if the graphics part of the :Northbridge has understands the VESA stuff. Does the XFree86 vesa :driver work? : :Also found this forum discussion... : :http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=30617 M 9000 X11 update: The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. I *think* the EPIA M 9000 is using a variant of the S3 Savage, but if so they have heavily modified the chip. I have had no luck trying to override the chip spec in my X configuration. -- Firewire update. I can't seemlessly connect and disconnect firewire devices, but if I connect the firewire HD up *before* kldload'ing the drivers, it works. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
If the linux XFree86 4.x driver was correctly written you should be able to dump it into /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers and use it. One of the goals with XFree86 4.x was that the X server modules be OS independent. On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: :I can't find any online specs to tell me if the graphics part of the :Northbridge has understands the VESA stuff. Does the XFree86 vesa :driver work? : :Also found this forum discussion... : :http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=30617 M 9000 X11 update: The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. I *think* the EPIA M 9000 is using a variant of the S3 Savage, but if so they have heavily modified the chip. I have had no luck trying to override the chip spec in my X configuration. -- Firewire update. I can't seemlessly connect and disconnect firewire devices, but if I connect the firewire HD up *before* kldload'ing the drivers, it works. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: :I can't find any online specs to tell me if the graphics part of the :Northbridge has understands the VESA stuff. Does the XFree86 vesa :driver work? : :Also found this forum discussion... : :http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=30617 M 9000 X11 update: The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. Try use the linux binary... believe it or not the latest XFree86 release has a loadable driver interface that is completely cross-OS compatible. I.e the drivers can not call any external calls only those provided by teh OS-specific framework into which they are loaded. Something that they have done very right.. I've seen several manufacturer supplied drivers for Linux work under FreeBSD. (!) julian To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: Firewire update. I can't seemlessly connect and disconnect firewire devices, but if I connect the firewire HD up *before* kldload'ing the drivers, it works. The disconnection and reconnnection seems to work for me using dvd devices.. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
Matthew Dillon wrote: The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. The do not because then people could leverage their work by building hardware which does not license anything from them, but operates compatably. The same reason Adaptec developed their HIM layer, to prevent people from using Adaptec SCSI drivers with non-Adaptec hardware, and getting all the work they did to get the driver into the Windows base OS, for free. Basically, it's done to amortize non-recurring non-developement related collateral business costs. Or, if you're Diamond, it's done because you hired an EE to do your firmware instead of a software engineer, and a third party driver could cause your hardware or an external monitor to explode. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
:Matthew Dillon wrote: : The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver : does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, : which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find : sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just : include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. : :The do not because then people could leverage their work by :building hardware which does not license anything from them, :but operates compatably. The same reason Adaptec developed :their HIM layer, to prevent people from using Adaptec SCSI :drivers with non-Adaptec hardware, and getting all the work :they did to get the driver into the Windows base OS, for free. : :Basically, it's done to amortize non-recurring non-developement :related collateral business costs. : :Or, if you're Diamond, it's done because you hired an EE to :do your firmware instead of a software engineer, and a third :party driver could cause your hardware or an external monitor :to explode. 8-). : :-- Terry This doesn't make any sense to me. There are a huge number of open-source drivers available, why would a third party want to steal the hardware layer to VIA's hardware just to emulate it? Why not some other hardware abstraction that is already available in open-source form? From a business perspective I just don't see how this could possibly effect VIA's bottom line. It isn't rocket science we're talking about here, it's a sodding frame buffer. -Matt Matthew Dillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
Matthew Dillon wrote: : The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver : does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, : which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find : sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just : include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. : :The do not because then people could leverage their work by :building hardware which does not license anything from them, :but operates compatably. The same reason Adaptec developed :their HIM layer, to prevent people from using Adaptec SCSI :drivers with non-Adaptec hardware, and getting all the work :they did to get the driver into the Windows base OS, for free. : :Basically, it's done to amortize non-recurring non-developement :related collateral business costs. This doesn't make any sense to me. There are a huge number of open-source drivers available, why would a third party want to steal the hardware layer to VIA's hardware just to emulate it? Why not some other hardware abstraction that is already available in open-source form? From a business perspective I just don't see how this could possibly effect VIA's bottom line. It isn't rocket science we're talking about here, it's a sodding frame buffer. These people operate on very low margins. They can not afford to give things away. If they did not have to worry about producing documentation, or even drivers, internally, then they reduce their amortizable RD costs by 0.5%, which is a significant fraction of their profit margin. It's the same reason a proprietary software vendor would not release RD results under Open Source license: by spending $1M on RD, and then giving the results away, they bootstrap any competitor to themselves by removing just that much RD costs. Using the $1M number, if I'm a business operating on a 5% margin, and I expect to make $5M over a 1 year product lifecycle, then I give away the $1M in RD, I now have two problems. First of all, if 5% is $5M, then the lowest I can possibly afford to go is a 1% profit margin, because that's required to recover my RD costs, while a competitor can take 0.5% or 0% -- either way, they can undersut my prices, and I can't afford to compete. Second of all, if I didn't feel that I was building a product that could win in the marketplace -- and that product includes not only the end-user product, but the support systems and business systems behind it -- then I would be building something else. So I *honestly* believe I have intellectual property tied up in the interface design, and I *honestly* believe that I can attach a monetary value to this. Third, I have business processes which cost me to develop, which are generally matched to my product design. The closer the match, the lower my operating costs, the higher my profit. Part one of this is that I want to make it hard to copy these processes outright and be successful. I do this by not disclosing information about the processes, and by not disclosing information about the product: like a binary weapon, neither of these can be used against me, if my competitor does not have the other. Part two of this is that some of these business processes are preemptible, and I need to prevent that happening, or my employees are, in effect working for my competitor. For example, if my hardware design has a known flaw (it might even be intentional, so that if the design is copied, I have a fingerprint proving it), then any of my dealers would be able to correct this flaw for my competitors customers, and may in fact not know they are cutting their own sales margins by doing so. Best case, a customer called in Pirate Enterprises with a problem, and then Pirate Enterprises calls *my* support people and gets a fix for their problem -- I have become Tier II support for my competition! Worst case, the driver indicates my company, and the customer calls me directly with the problem -- I have become Tier I support for my competition! Basically, there are a lot of business reasons for this, and they all have to do with protecing myself from being screwed by my competition. Yes, I agree, in many cases, the belief-in-value-proposition is not justified: a framebuffer is a framebuffer, after all; but even if that's the case, you can't expect everyone to understand Enlightened Self Interest, or every piece of software with tactical value, but no strategic value, would be Open Source, and there would be clear lines of division in interface definitions between strategic and tactical components. Companies whose belief-in-value-proposition is not justified will, eventually, lose out to some other company. 9 out of 10 new businesses fail in the first year, and 8 out of 10 of the remainder fail in 5 years. Until then, they will do annoying things like treating tactical data as if it were strategic, etc.. --
Re: Another EPIA M 9000 update (was Re: More compartive power/performanceresults (was Re: Lower power SMP boxes?))
Julian Elischer writes: | On Mon, 10 Feb 2003, Matthew Dillon wrote: | :I can't find any online specs to tell me if the graphics part of the | :Northbridge has understands the VESA stuff. Does the XFree86 vesa | :driver work? | : | :Also found this forum discussion... | : | :http://forums.viaarena.com/messageview.cfm?catid=28threadid=30617 | | M 9000 X11 update: | | The vga driver works in low resolution modes. The vesa driver | does not work. Via has a linux driver on their CD for X, called via, | which linux people seem to be using successfully, but I can't find | sources anywhere. I don't understand why these companies don't just | include sources for their X drivers, it would make life so much easier. | | Try use the linux binary... | believe it or not the latest XFree86 release has a loadable driver | interface that is completely cross-OS compatible. I.e the drivers | can not call any external calls only those provided by teh OS-specific | framework into which they are loaded. | | Something that they have done very right.. | I've seen several manufacturer supplied drivers for Linux work under | FreeBSD. ... and for a I while I was supplying Linux folks with a working XFree server module for an IBM 770Z ThinkPad built on FreeBSD of course! Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-hackers in the body of the message
