Re: Motif goes open source
At 01:13 PM 5/15/00 +0200, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >Since X11 is an optional (3rd party even) component of FreeBSD, >the license on Motif is not really a big issue: it will always be >a port in FreeBSD, it will not be part of the base system. > >We have other ports with far weirder licenses. > >Only too bad it took them 10 years to realize what the key to a >success in the UNIX world is :-( That is, if your definition of "success" is wide-spread use rather than profits I think that Sun and Oracle are doing rather well. DB Emerging Technologies, Inc. - http://www.etinc.com ISA and PCI T1/T3/V35/HSSI Cards for FreeBSD and LINUX Multiport T1 and HSSI/T3 UNIX-based Routers Bandwidth Management Standalone Systems Bandwidth Management software for LINUX and FreeBSD To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
On Mon, 15 May 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Martin Cracauer wrote: > > > > "OpenSource" (without blank) is the term. "Open Source" is like > > "Free BSD", suit-wearers language showing the unfamilarness with the > > subject. > > Really? I have always used (and have no plans to change) "Open Source". > I see no point at all in making it a single word. Alas, they use a > definition of their own, to suit their needs instead of the political > agenda of RMS. RMS's politcal agendas do not include the term 'Open Source'. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Bishop wrote: > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif The license seems to make it quite useless. http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/license/ "Free for use on Operating Systems that are themself Open Source" (note the blank), otherwise with something like a GPL virus, but incompatible with the GPL. As it is not an essential system library, you may not link GPL programs to it. As the point about FreeBSD is that you can make it non-OpenSource at will, no essential system parts of FreeBSD may be linked to it. On the positive side, it seems to allow redistribution in modified form and as such is not as stupid as Sun's "Community" license. Martin -- % Martin Cracauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ BSD User Group Hamburg, Germany http://www.bsdhh.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
Martin Cracauer wrote: > > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Bishop wrote: > > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif > > The license seems to make it quite useless. > http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/license/ Huh? The license makes it quite useful, IMHO. > "Free for use on Operating Systems that are themself Open Source" > (note the blank), otherwise with something like a GPL virus, but (blank? what blank?) > incompatible with the GPL. As it is not an essential system library, > you may not link GPL programs to it. As the point about FreeBSD is That's because GPL is brain-damaged. It is, essentially, incompatible with anything but GPL. Even the BSD license had to have a clause removed (and I'm still doubtful if this makes it "compatible" with GPL). > that you can make it non-OpenSource at will, no essential system parts > of FreeBSD may be linked to it. We do have a lot of GPLed code in the system, which cannot be made non-OpenSource. Anyway, the license does not contaminate linked programs. It says so explicitly. In this respect, it is much better than GPL. Also, since X is a separate component, it would be no burden to distribute it with the system. Honestly, I don't know of a single BSD-based solution out there that would have had the least trouble had Motif with the above license been distributed with FreeBSD. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I agree whole heartily! Who am I to disagree with a wacko like you?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > Martin Cracauer wrote: > > > > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Bishop wrote: > > > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > > > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > > > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > > > > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif > > > > The license seems to make it quite useless. > > http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/license/ > > Huh? The license makes it quite useful, IMHO. I already corrected this point. > > "Free for use on Operating Systems that are themself Open Source" > > (note the blank), otherwise with something like a GPL virus, but > > (blank? what blank?) "OpenSource" (without blank) is the term. "Open Source" is like "Free BSD", suit-wearers language showing the unfamilarness with the subject. > > incompatible with the GPL. As it is not an essential system library, > > you may not link GPL programs to it. As the point about FreeBSD is > > That's because GPL is brain-damaged. It is, essentially, incompatible > with anything but GPL. Even the BSD license had to have a clause removed > (and I'm still doubtful if this makes it "compatible" with GPL). I know. http://www.cons.org/cracauer/gpl.html It's an important thing to notice, as no GPL desktop stuff can be built upon it. > > that you can make it non-OpenSource at will, no essential system parts > > of FreeBSD may be linked to it. > > We do have a lot of GPLed code in the system, which cannot be made > non-OpenSource. As I said, I had to correct the point, I was mislead by their term "program" and thought it infected applications using it. Martin -- % Martin Cracauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
Martin Cracauer wrote: > > "OpenSource" (without blank) is the term. "Open Source" is like > "Free BSD", suit-wearers language showing the unfamilarness with the > subject. Really? I have always used (and have no plans to change) "Open Source". I see no point at all in making it a single word. Alas, they use a definition of their own, to suit their needs instead of the political agenda of RMS. > > That's because GPL is brain-damaged. It is, essentially, incompatible > > with anything but GPL. Even the BSD license had to have a clause removed > > (and I'm still doubtful if this makes it "compatible" with GPL). > > I know. http://www.cons.org/cracauer/gpl.html > > It's an important thing to notice, as no GPL desktop stuff can be > built upon it. Hurray! :-) -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I agree whole heartily! Who am I to disagree with a wacko like you?" To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: >Martin Cracauer wrote: >> >> In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Bishop wrote: >> > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to >> > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source >> > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." >> > >> > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif >> >> The license seems to make it quite useless. >> http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/license/ > >Huh? The license makes it quite useful, IMHO. I think so too. Since X11 is an optional (3rd party even) component of FreeBSD, the license on Motif is not really a big issue: it will always be a port in FreeBSD, it will not be part of the base system. We have other ports with far weirder licenses. Only too bad it took them 10 years to realize what the key to a success in the UNIX world is :-( -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD coreteam member | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bob Bishop writes: : "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to : enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source : code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." : : Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif Cool. I have an "in" at ICS who is sending me a cdrom with the sources on it. The servers are slash dotted back into the stone age at this time. This should also make it easier for use to integrate patches in the future since he's a good guy who I worked with back in the OI/uib ObejctBuilder days. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
Hi, >Cool. I have an "in" at ICS who is sending me a cdrom with the >sources on it. The servers are slash dotted back into the stone age >at this time. This should also make it easier for use to integrate >patches in the future since he's a good guy who I worked with back in >the OI/uib ObejctBuilder days. We live in the same offices as IST, who use FreeBSD extensively in-house. I hope you'll find us being quite helpful too :-) -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 [EMAIL PROTECTED]fax (0118) 989 4254 between 0800 and 1800 UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
On Monday, May 15, 2000 at 03:09a, Bob Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif > Check out the web page: "We want to support the momentum of Open Source operating systems such as Linux(R) and FreeBSD by developing an Open Motif(R)..." and "UNIX and Motif are registered trademarks of The Open Group in the US and other countries. The Open Group and the X Window System are trademarks of The Open Group. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe FreeBSD is a registered trademark of some organization -- FreeBSD, Inc., Walnut Creek, or BSDI. Someone should politely inform The Open Group of FreeBSD's trademark status. -- Sam Stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
Sam Stephenson wrote: > > On Monday, May 15, 2000 at 03:09a, Bob Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif > > > > Check out the web page: > > "We want to support the momentum of Open Source operating systems such as > Linux(R) and FreeBSD by developing an Open Motif(R)..." > > and > > "UNIX and Motif are registered trademarks of The Open Group in the US and > other countries. The Open Group and the X Window System are trademarks of > The Open Group. Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds." Sorry, it's not anymore. There are two registrations for the simple trademark "Linux", including: Rosch, AG (Swiss) for laundry detergents and laundry bleaches for home use; cleaning preparations for home use; degreasing preparations for home use; general purpose scouring powders; skin soap for personal use; perfume; essential oils for personal use; preparations for personal hygiene and cosmetic purposes, hair tonic; toothpaste. Croce, William R. Della, Jr., 33 Snow Hill St. Boston MA 02113 computer operating system software to facilitate computer use and operation. CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED. I prefer to use the first because it amuses me. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe FreeBSD is a registered trademark > of some organization -- FreeBSD, Inc., Walnut Creek, or BSDI. Someone > should politely inform The Open Group of FreeBSD's trademark status. WALNUT CREEK CDROM, INCORPORATED 1547 Palos Verdes Mall, Suite 260 Walnut Creek CALIFORNIA 94596 I see no reason you shouldn't inform them yourself. Do you? http://trademarks.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/search4?ENG+3 -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Motif goes open source
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Martin Cracauer wrote: > In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Bishop wrote: > > "The Open Group, a vendor and technology-neutral consortium dedicated to > > enterprise integration, announced today that it is releasing the source > > code of Motif, using a public license, to the Open Source community." > > > > Full details at http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif > > The license seems to make it quite useless. > http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/license/ > > "Free for use on Operating Systems that are themself Open Source" > (note the blank), otherwise with something like a GPL virus, Ops, sorry, I was mislead. They use the term "Program" for the Motif library, not the application you link to. So it does not infect your own code that uses this library, you just have to ship source for your modifications to the Motif library. Still, it is of course vastly incomatible to the GPL. Martin -- % Martin Cracauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.cons.org/cracauer/ Tel.: (private) +4940 5221829 Fax.: (private) +4940 5228536 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
