Re: Cache Memory in top command

2010-09-28 Thread Bas Smeelen 
On 09/29/2010 08:50 AM, vyaaghrah-...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi Adam
>
> It gets me to this following explanation
>
> Cache: number of pages used for VM-level disk caching
>
> I am not sure what is VM-Level disk caching?
> Further it does not answer how this value is calculated for a system.
>
>   
>> How is Cache memory in the following output calculated, on Free BSD system.
>>
>> 
> man 1 top
>
>   

 *Cache:* number of clean pages caching data that are available for  immediate 
reallocation
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=top&sektion=1 




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Re: Cache Memory in top command

2010-09-28 Thread vyaaghrah-nix 
Hi Adam

It gets me to this following explanation

Cache: number of pages used for VM-level disk caching

I am not sure what is VM-Level disk caching?
Further it does not answer how this value is calculated for a system.

 Regards
Abhijeet.C







From: Adam Vande More 
To: vyaaghrah-...@yahoo.com
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 8:20:43 AM
Subject: Re: Cache Memory in top command


On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:40 PM,  wrote:

Hi Everybody
>
>How is Cache memory in the following output calculated, on Free BSD system.
>
man 1 top

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Re: what is from [sic (wrong)] with this picture? -- Answer: It's Ubuntu, not FreeBSD

2010-09-28 Thread Bas Smeelen 

>> You can't have a sending domain as thought.org if the @ record for 
>> thought.org doesn't exist, IIRC.
>>
>> Look to your DNS for the solution, IMNSHO.
No MX for thought.org
It did have a SOA a minute ago, but this is gone also
>>>
>>> By default, postfix was installed on my ubuntu desktop.  I am not
>>> familiar with it.  I would =like= it to be sending mail to my server
>>> without the $HOST name instead of $HOST.$DOMAIN name.  I know there are
>>> a bunch of us who use this kind of setup: FreeBSD for server things and
>>> some version of linux as a desktop.
>>>
>>> Really, this looks like a postfix blunder.  How do I tell postfix to
>>> rewrite th e outgoing address without the hostname?
>>>   
This is a postfix question.
Modify main.cf and set myorigin I guess?
http://www.postfix.org/documentation.html


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Disappearing available space with ZFS...what am I missing?

2010-09-28 Thread Aaron 
I've created a ZFS pool with zpool create tank raidz ada0 ada1 ada2
ada3, and then I add some additional mountpoints (I think they're
called) using zfs create tank/storage, etc. In zpool list, I see the
pool with 3.62T available. With df -h, I see 2.4T available for tank,
and tank/storage. When I first created tank, it had the 3.62T
available as I expected. What am I missing? I do have compression set
to gzip-9 on tank which gets inherited like I want, don't know if that
would affect anything.

--Aaron
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Re: Tuxpaint won't run

2010-09-28 Thread Polytropon 
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:45:09 -0700, Caleb Stein  wrote:
> Whenever I run TuxPaint, it crashes, stating that it was compiled with  
> png.h from libpng-1.4.3, but is running with png.c from libpng-1.2.40.   
> When I run pkg_info|grep png, it says that png is at version 1.4.3.  What  
> is the problem?

Looks like TuxPaint is expecting 1.2.40, but 1.4.3 is present on
your system. Recompile TuxPaint as it seems that something didn't
go right with the compiling.

Can you post the complete error message?


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Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
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Tuxpaint won't run

2010-09-28 Thread Caleb Stein 
Whenever I run TuxPaint, it crashes, stating that it was compiled with  
png.h from libpng-1.4.3, but is running with png.c from libpng-1.2.40.   
When I run pkg_info|grep png, it says that png is at version 1.4.3.  What  
is the problem?

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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Polytropon 
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:20:49 -0400, victor kovacs  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mouse works in text mode in root and personal directories.
> 
> Does not work in KDE graphics after startx is typed in personal directory.
> 
> Graphics comes up normally.
> 
> Using a ps2 mouse.
> 
> Any suggestions?

Check the mail archives related to using X with or without HAL
and DBUS (depends on the setting you are using). When your
mouse works in text mode, moused has correctly picked it up,
so the problem seems to be on X's side.

Check X configuration file /etc/X11/xorg.conf if you have any.

Check your HAL and DBUS stuff.
a) Want to use HAL and DBUS?
Enable them in /etc/rc.conf
b) Do not want to use HAL and DBUS?
Modify xorg.conf's AutoAddDevice setting.

You'll find more information about this in the mailing list
archives and the FreeBSD handbook.



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Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
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Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread victor kovacs 



Mouse works in text mode in root and personal directories.

Does not work in KDE graphics after startx is typed in personal directory.

Graphics comes up normally.

Using a ps2 mouse.

Any suggestions?

Regards,

victor

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Re: Linux filesystems accessible from FreeBSD 8-stable?

2010-09-28 Thread Adam Vande More 
On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 12:59 PM, Leif Walsh  wrote:

> I can't seem to get a definitive answer on this from the internet,
> there's a lot of conflicting information.
>
> I have some data drives formatted with ext4, which I'd like to access
> from freebsd, preferably without totally reformatting because I don't
> have much temp space for copying.  Read-only would be fine, read-write
> would be much preferred.
>
> Is this possible?


Not sure about the base system, but you could use this I think.  I haven't
actually used it on an ext4 FS, though it claims it's capable.

sysutils/e2fsprogs

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Re: Cache Memory in top command

2010-09-28 Thread Adam Vande More 
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:40 PM,  wrote:

> Hi Everybody
>
> How is Cache memory in the following output calculated, on Free BSD system.
>

man 1 top

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Cache Memory in top command

2010-09-28 Thread vyaaghrah-nix 
Hi Everybody 

How is Cache memory in the following output calculated, on Free BSD system.

last pid: 39307;  load averages:  0.00,  0.00,  
0.00
   
 up 60+18:16:49  10:00:17
25 processes:  1 running, 24 sleeping
CPU states:  0.0% user,  0.0% nice,  0.0% system,  0.0% interrupt,  100% idle
Mem: 12M Active, 171M Inact, 68M Wired, 36K Cache, 111M Buf, 750M Free
Swap: 4000M Total, 4000M Free

 
Regards
Abhijeet.C

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Re: smartctl/ada/FreeBSD 8.1 more than 10 devices?

2010-09-28 Thread DJ 
>  since all the drives, cables and controllers are identical, I'm trying 
> to figure out if there is something *else* I should be looking into for why 
> smart would have an issue, but the rest of the OS has no issues with these 
> drives.  (zfs is storing data, reports them all as online, etc). I looked 
> into the smartctl code, and there definitely is a carve out for FreeBSD 8.1 
> or later, but I don't know enough about the new internals to know if the is 
> any kind of concern parsing more than 10 drives, etc.
Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary

$ sudo smartctl -d atacam -i /dev/ada11
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.0-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 family
Device Model:     ST31500341AS
...

Also, out of curiosity, are you using the ahci(4) driver or the siis(4) 
driver?


Thank you - fantastic!

I tried the -d atacam before I sent the email, but I obviously specified it 
incorrectly because I wrote the message anyway. This solves the issue, not sure 
why it can't detect it.

To answer your follow up question, I started using just siis, but added ahci to 
allow ahci functions. As far as I can tell, AHCI functions add on top of the 
SIIS ones. The boot compact flash (not on the SIIS card) converted to ada from 
ad once ahci was loaded.

DJ




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Re: smartctl/ada/FreeBSD 8.1 more than 10 devices?

2010-09-28 Thread Steve Polyack 

 On 9/28/2010 7:25 PM, DJ wrote:

I'm seeing something odd and don't know if its a function of the new ada/ahci 
driver support in smartmontools 5.38 and later.

I'm running 5.39.1 on an array using SiL3124 controllers with port multipliers.

...

# smartctl -i /dev/ada11
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

/dev/ada11: Unable to detect device type
Smartctl: please specify device type with the -d option.

Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary


---

 since all the drives, cables and controllers are identical, I'm trying to 
figure out if there is something *else* I should be looking into for why smart 
would have an issue, but the rest of the OS has no issues with these drives.  
(zfs is storing data, reports them all as online, etc). I looked into the 
smartctl code, and there definitely is a carve out for FreeBSD 8.1 or later, 
but I don't know enough about the new internals to know if the is any kind of 
concern parsing more than 10 drives, etc.


DJ,
I have a similar setup with a fair amount of drives on a few Sil3124 
controllers and port multipliers.  I can't speak for why smartctl cannot 
automatically detect the device type, but if you specify '-d atacam', 
then it will work just fine:


$ sudo smartctl -i /dev/ada11
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.0-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

/dev/ada11: Unable to detect device type
Smartctl: please specify device type with the -d option.

Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary

$ sudo smartctl -d atacam -i /dev/ada11
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.0-STABLE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 family
Device Model: ST31500341AS
...

Also, out of curiosity, are you using the ahci(4) driver or the siis(4) 
driver?


Steve Polyack
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smartctl/ada/FreeBSD 8.1 more than 10 devices?

2010-09-28 Thread DJ 

I'm seeing something odd and don't know if its a function of the new ada/ahci 
driver support in smartmontools 5.38 and later.

I'm running 5.39.1 on an array using SiL3124 controllers with port multipliers.


# smartctl -i /dev/ada9
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 family
Device Model: ST31500341AS
Serial Number:    9VS40ZGX
Firmware Version: CC1H
User Capacity:    1,500,301,910,016 bytes
Device is:    In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4
Local Time is:    Tue Sep 28 19:22:19 2010 EDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

# smartctl -i /dev/ada10
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 family
Device Model: ST31500341AS
Serial Number:    9VS2JN79
Firmware Version: CC1H
User Capacity:    1,500,301,910,016 bytes
Device is:    In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  ATA-8-ACS revision 4
Local Time is:    Tue Sep 28 19:22:34 2010 EDT
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

# smartctl -i /dev/ada11
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE amd64] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

/dev/ada11: Unable to detect device type
Smartctl: please specify device type with the -d option.

Use smartctl -h to get a usage summary


---

 since all the drives, cables and controllers are identical, I'm trying to 
figure out if there is something *else* I should be looking into for why smart 
would have an issue, but the rest of the OS has no issues with these drives.  
(zfs is storing data, reports them all as online, etc). I looked into the 
smartctl code, and there definitely is a carve out for FreeBSD 8.1 or later, 
but I don't know enough about the new internals to know if the is any kind of 
concern parsing more than 10 drives, etc.

Thanks in advance!

DJ






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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Mike Clarke 
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, Ian Smith wrote:

> I agree with Mike about the worms :)  I have an 8.0-RELEASE system
> with many ports installed and quite a few configured to taste with a
> recently upgraded 8-STABLE world, working through a huge portversion
> update list, started by fetching over 900MB of packages so far
> including X and KDE by portupgrade -aFPP.  It's going to take a
> while, and I'll be surprised if I don't skin a few knuckles on
> circular dependencies along the way.

I used to use packages in preference to ports but, being on a PAYG 
broadband account rather than unlimited, I'm more concerned about 
bandwidth than compile time. I found that upgrading ports often 
involved just a few packages which had actually been changed while the 
rest just had their version number bumped as a result of dependencies 
but still needed the entire package to be downloaded. Switching to 
building the ports instead means that I usually only need to download a 
relatively small number of distfiles with the remaining ports being 
recompiled from my existing collection of distfiles using the new 
makefiles in the updated ports tree.

-- 
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Re: Booting up FreeBSD 8.0

2010-09-28 Thread Chuck Swiger 
On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:52 AM, William Lang wrote:
> I have just installed FreeBSD 8.0 and after I login it stops at $ like its
> waiting for me to put some type of information in or something. So what do I
> put after the dollar sign???

You're at a Unix shell prompt.  I suspect the resources here will be helpful:

  http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html
  http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/new-users/article.html

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: Booting up FreeBSD 8.0

2010-09-28 Thread Steven Friedrich 
On Tuesday 28 September 2010 1:52:56 pm William Lang wrote:
> I have just installed FreeBSD 8.0 and after I login it stops at $ like its
> waiting for me to put some type of information in or something. So what do
> I put after the dollar sign???
> 
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You haven't indicated what your level of expertise is with unix in general, 
what other software you have installed, or what your goals are.

Have you added additional user IDs to the system or just root?

If you're logged in as root, I wouldn't rn X from that account, though it may 
be sfe these days, I don't kow. I'd create another userID, perhaps admin, and 
assign it to group wheel. This group wil allow you to su root when you need 
the authority. If you're logged in as a non-root user, such as admin (which 
doesn't exist unless yo add it), then try startx.

-- 
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Hardware:  2.80GHz Intel Pentium 4 (HTT) with 2 GB memory
OS version:FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE i386 (6.9 MB kernel)
manager(s):kde4-4.5.1 
X windows: xorg-7.5X.Org X Server 1.7.5
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Booting up FreeBSD 8.0

2010-09-28 Thread William Lang 
I have just installed FreeBSD 8.0 and after I login it stops at $ like its
waiting for me to put some type of information in or something. So what do I
put after the dollar sign???

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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Mike Clarke 
On Tuesday 28 September 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:

> Mike Clarke  wrote:

[snip]

> > The problem is if/when you need to update a port as a result of
> > a security advisory. If your ports tree is very much out of date
> > then it's likely that updating that one port will require a number
> > of dependencies to be updated as well, sometimes all the ports
> > depending on one or more of the updated dependencies need to be
> > updated as well and the resultant bag of worms can take quite a
> > lot of sorting out.  The "little and often" approach of keeping
> > the ports tree up to date could be less traumatic.
>
> and, in this context, your point is?
>
> I'm advocating starting from a stable and self-consistent baseline,
> consisting of a release _and_ its corresponding port/package
> collection, and then considering whether any updates are needed.
> Isn't that orthogonal to the question of whether or not to follow
> ports updates, once the baseline has been established?
> ___

Well I'd normally happy to stay with the original release state without 
having to have the "latest & greatest" version of each application but 
I prefer to update any ports which have been flagged by portaudit as 
having security vulnerabilities and this is when the problem could 
arise. Updating a single port in isolation without updating the ports 
tree can lead to problems with dependencies so you invariably need to 
update your ports tree and update the dependencies for the port in 
question.

If, for example, you were to build a web server by installing 
8.1-RELEASE and the matching package for apache you would have 
apache-2.2.15_9 which suffers from a remote DoS bug and should be 
upgraded to 2.2.16 . 
As Warren Block has pointed out elsewhere in this thread there's 
usually a flurry of port updates when the ports tree is unfrozen just 
after a release so if you now update the ports tree and upgrade your 
ports there could be a large number of ports to upgrade, most of them 
can be upgraded quite painlessly with portmaster or portupgrade but 
you'd need to check /usr/ports/UPDATING to see if any of them needed 
special attention, fixing a single special case is usually quite 
straightforward but things sometimes get more complex when there's 
several. If on the other hand you installed the base system, updated 
your ports tree and then built what you needed from ports (or the 
latest packages) you'd get the latest versions without having to sort 
out any conflicts. If you wait a long time before a new vulnerability 
pushes you into doing your next upgrade then you'll still probably have 
quite a lot to sort out but updating small numbers of ports more 
frequently usually involves less work than an occasional mega upgrade.

Well, that's just my 2 cents worth and it does depend on how many ports 
you have. A minimal server setup with few ports will probably not need 
very frequent port upgrades but something like a desktop could easily 
have 700 or more ports and it can be quite messy to upgrade your ports 
if it's been a long time since the last upgrade.

-- 
Mike Clarke
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Re: preemption enable/disable routines

2010-09-28 Thread Alejandro Imass 
On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:10 AM, akash kumar  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can some one tell me the routines in freebsd to enable and disable preemption.
> In linux we have preempt_enable and preempt_disable which does the
> functionality.
>
> In case freebsd, doesnot have such routines can i used mtx_lock_spin() to do 
> the
> same?

Very similar and for the mostly the same purpose.

Install the man/doc and then;

man mutex

Best,
Alejandro Imass

>
> Thanks,
> Akash.
>
>
>
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Re: what is from [sic (wrong)] with this picture? -- Answer: It's Ubuntu, not FreeBSD

2010-09-28 Thread Ryan Coleman 
And, lastly, I will add this quote:

> I have been trying to install ubuntu as a desktop while maintaining
> freebsd as my server.  A few days ago mail was working.  But, checking
> my /var/logs/ on my ubuntu I see:

You are asking a FreeBSD list about Ubuntu? ... You'll find some help, not a 
lot and mostly people ignoring your messages.

On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:36 AM, Ryan Coleman wrote:

> I just did a check for thought.org and even it doesn't exist.
> 
> Is your DNS host down? Did your domain expire? (Just checked the WHOIS and 
> no, it's up through 2015)
> 
> This may or may not be anything but neither your primary nor secondary Name 
> Servers respond to pings:
>> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ns1.silvertree.org
>> PING ns1.silvertree.org (173.11.101.153): 56 data bytes
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
> 
>> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ns1.thought.org
>> PING ns1.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
> 
>> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping thought.org
>> ping: cannot resolve thought.org: Unknown host
> 
>> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping www.thought.org
>> PING ethic.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
> 
>> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ethic.thought.org
>> PING ethic.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
>> Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
> 
> You can't have a sending domain as thought.org if the @ record for 
> thought.org doesn't exist, IIRC.
> 
> Look to your DNS for the solution, IMNSHO.
> 
> --
> Ryan
> 
> On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Gary Kline wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I have been trying to install ubuntu as a desktop while maintaining
>> freebsd as my server.  A few days ago mail was working.  But, checking
>> my /var/logs/ on my ubuntu I see:
>> 
>> 
>> Sep 28 09:10:46 newtao postfix/smtp[8064]: 73A14E81F39:
>> to=, relay=mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169]:25,
>> delay=80279, delays=80275/0.02/3/0.64, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host
>> mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169] said: 421 invalid sender domain
>> 'newtao.thought.org' (misconfigured dns?) (in reply to RCPT TO command))
>> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/pickup[7946]: DD383E81092: uid=1001 
>> from=
>> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/cleanup[8173]: DD383E81092:
>> message-id=<20100928161349.ga8...@thought.org>
>> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/qmgr[2090]: DD383E81092:
>> from=, size=874, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>> 
>> 
>> By default, postfix was installed on my ubuntu desktop.  I am not
>> familiar with it.  I would =like= it to be sending mail to my server
>> without the $HOST name instead of $HOST.$DOMAIN name.  I know there are
>> a bunch of us who use this kind of setup: FreeBSD for server things and
>> some version of linux as a desktop.
>> 
>> Really, this looks like a postfix blunder.  How do I tell postfix to
>> rewrite th e outgoing address without the hostname?
>> 
>> tia,
>> 
>> gary
>> 
>> PS: FWIW: I still have the oldtao alive and well.  It's just old and
>> overdue for replacement.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
>>   The 7.83a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
>>  http://journey.thought.org
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
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> 
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Re: what is from with this picture?

2010-09-28 Thread Ryan Coleman 
I just did a check for thought.org and even it doesn't exist.

Is your DNS host down? Did your domain expire? (Just checked the WHOIS and no, 
it's up through 2015)

This may or may not be anything but neither your primary nor secondary Name 
Servers respond to pings:
> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ns1.silvertree.org
> PING ns1.silvertree.org (173.11.101.153): 56 data bytes
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1

> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ns1.thought.org
> PING ns1.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1

> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping thought.org
> ping: cannot resolve thought.org: Unknown host

> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping www.thought.org
> PING ethic.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1

> Ryan-Colemans-MacBook-Pro:~ ryanjcole$ ping ethic.thought.org
> PING ethic.thought.org (209.180.213.210): 56 data bytes
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 0
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 1
> Request timeout for icmp_seq 2

You can't have a sending domain as thought.org if the @ record for thought.org 
doesn't exist, IIRC.

Look to your DNS for the solution, IMNSHO.

--
Ryan

On Sep 28, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Gary Kline wrote:

> 
> I have been trying to install ubuntu as a desktop while maintaining
> freebsd as my server.  A few days ago mail was working.  But, checking
> my /var/logs/ on my ubuntu I see:
> 
> 
> Sep 28 09:10:46 newtao postfix/smtp[8064]: 73A14E81F39:
> to=, relay=mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169]:25,
> delay=80279, delays=80275/0.02/3/0.64, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host
> mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169] said: 421 invalid sender domain
> 'newtao.thought.org' (misconfigured dns?) (in reply to RCPT TO command))
> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/pickup[7946]: DD383E81092: uid=1001 
> from=
> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/cleanup[8173]: DD383E81092:
> message-id=<20100928161349.ga8...@thought.org>
> Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/qmgr[2090]: DD383E81092:
> from=, size=874, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> 
> 
> By default, postfix was installed on my ubuntu desktop.  I am not
> familiar with it.  I would =like= it to be sending mail to my server
> without the $HOST name instead of $HOST.$DOMAIN name.  I know there are
> a bunch of us who use this kind of setup: FreeBSD for server things and
> some version of linux as a desktop.
> 
> Really, this looks like a postfix blunder.  How do I tell postfix to
> rewrite th e outgoing address without the hostname?
> 
> tia,
> 
> gary
> 
> PS: FWIW: I still have the oldtao alive and well.  It's just old and
> overdue for replacement.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
>The 7.83a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
>   http://journey.thought.org
> 
> 
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what is from with this picture?

2010-09-28 Thread Gary Kline 

I have been trying to install ubuntu as a desktop while maintaining
freebsd as my server.  A few days ago mail was working.  But, checking
my /var/logs/ on my ubuntu I see:


Sep 28 09:10:46 newtao postfix/smtp[8064]: 73A14E81F39:
to=, relay=mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169]:25,
delay=80279, delays=80275/0.02/3/0.64, dsn=4.0.0, status=deferred (host
mx01.schlund.de[212.227.15.169] said: 421 invalid sender domain
'newtao.thought.org' (misconfigured dns?) (in reply to RCPT TO command))
Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/pickup[7946]: DD383E81092: uid=1001 from=
Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/cleanup[8173]: DD383E81092:
message-id=<20100928161349.ga8...@thought.org>
Sep 28 09:13:51 newtao postfix/qmgr[2090]: DD383E81092:
from=, size=874, nrcpt=1 (queue active)


By default, postfix was installed on my ubuntu desktop.  I am not
familiar with it.  I would =like= it to be sending mail to my server
without the $HOST name instead of $HOST.$DOMAIN name.  I know there are
a bunch of us who use this kind of setup: FreeBSD for server things and
some version of linux as a desktop.

Really, this looks like a postfix blunder.  How do I tell postfix to
rewrite th e outgoing address without the hostname?

tia,

gary

PS: FWIW: I still have the oldtao alive and well.  It's just old and
overdue for replacement.


-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
The 7.83a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
   http://journey.thought.org


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preemption enable/disable routines

2010-09-28 Thread akash kumar 
Hi,

Can some one tell me the routines in freebsd to enable and disable preemption.
In linux we have preempt_enable and preempt_disable which does the 
functionality.

In case freebsd, doesnot have such routines can i used mtx_lock_spin() to do 
the 
same?

Thanks,
Akash. 



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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Ian Smith 
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 330, Issue 2, Message: 22
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 00:02:29 -0700 per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
 > Mike Clarke  wrote:
 > > On Monday 27 September 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
 > > > I've recently started on a new system, and am planning to
 > > > install 8.1-RELEASE, including the corresponding ports tree;
 > > > then install what ports I can from packages and also fetch the
 > > > corresponding distfiles; and finally build -- from release-
 > > > corresponding ports -- any that aren't available as packages or
 > > > where I want non-default OPTION settings.  That approach should
 > > > avoid most nasty surprises while getting things set up and
 > > > working.  _After_ everything is installed and configured
 > > > properly will be plenty soon enough to consider whether any
 > > > ports need to be updated -- and the already-installed-and-
 > > > working package collection will provide a fallback in case
 > > > of trouble trying to build any updated versions.
 > >
 > > The problem is if/when you need to update a port as a result of
 > > a security advisory. If your ports tree is very much out of date
 > > then it's likely that updating that one port will require a number
 > > of dependencies to be updated as well, sometimes all the ports
 > > depending on one or more of the updated dependencies need to be
 > > updated as well and the resultant bag of worms can take quite a
 > > lot of sorting out.  The "little and often" approach of keeping
 > > the ports tree up to date could be less traumatic.
 > 
 > and, in this context, your point is?
 > 
 > I'm advocating starting from a stable and self-consistent baseline,
 > consisting of a release _and_ its corresponding port/package
 > collection, and then considering whether any updates are needed.
 > Isn't that orthogonal to the question of whether or not to follow
 > ports updates, once the baseline has been established?

Makes sense to me.  There's been a ports freeze and extra attention to 
consistency of dependencies leading up to a -RELEASE, so there's a much 
better chance of all your ports working together from the outset, then 
you can update them at leisure while still getting on with some work!

That there's also a self-consistent complete set of packages at that 
point seems lost on some folks having good enough bandwidth and fast 
enough systems to never need bothering with packages.

I agree with Mike about the worms :)  I have an 8.0-RELEASE system with 
many ports installed and quite a few configured to taste with a recently 
upgraded 8-STABLE world, working through a huge portversion update list, 
started by fetching over 900MB of packages so far including X and KDE by 
portupgrade -aFPP.  It's going to take a while, and I'll be surprised if 
I don't skin a few knuckles on circular dependencies along the way.

cheers, Ian
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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Warren Block 

On Tue, 28 Sep 2010, Ryan Coleman wrote:


As I understand it: The OS itself is stable, but the ports are constantly in 
flux and may be issues.


During a FreeBSD release, the ports tree is "frozen" and port updates 
are delayed.  So a FreeBSD release really does come with with a somewhat 
stale and stable set of ports... which is immediately followed by a 
flurry of port updates as the ports tree is unfrozen.  Often these 
updates include major applications like xorg, with time-consuming 
upgrade procedures.


The snapshot of ports on a -release grows increasingly stale.  After a 
while, it's easier to update the ports tree before installing anything.

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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Chris Whitehouse 

per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:


I'm advocating starting from a stable and self-consistent baseline,
consisting of a release _and_ its corresponding port/package
collection, and then considering whether any updates are needed.


You might be interested to follow Manolis' custom DVD which is based on 
exactly that principle:


http://freebsd-custom.wikidot.com

Chris


Isn't that orthogonal to the question of whether or not to follow
ports updates, once the baseline has been established?
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Re: ld(1) cannot find entry symbol _start;

2010-09-28 Thread Michel Talon 
Paul B Mahol said:
On 9/28/10, Anton Shterenlikht  wrote:
> > I'm trying to learn the very basics of the
> > compile - assemble - link process on FreeBSD.
> > Please don't shoot me.
> 
> > Then I try to link the object file into
> > an executable:
> >
> > % ld tmp.o
> 
> You are missing something in above command.
> 

More precisely, if you run gcc -v on a C file you get someting like:
 /usr/bin/ld --eh-frame-hdr -V -dynamic-linker /libexec/ld-elf.so.1
/usr/lib/crt1.o /usr/lib/crti.o /usr/lib/crtbegin.o -L/usr/lib
-L/usr/lib /var/tmp//cco5EINk.o -lgcc --as-needed -lgcc_s --no-as-needed
-lc -lgcc --as-needed -lgcc_s --no-as-needed /usr/lib/crtend.o
/usr/lib/crtn.o


where the object file produced by compilation and assembling is 
/var/tmp//cco5EINk.o 

That is adds several other object files to your own in order to get 
an executable.

In particular the start symbol, at which execution begins is in 
/usr/lib/crt1.o

as you can see from
niobe% nm /usr/lib/crt1.o
 w _DYNAMIC
 D __progname
 U _fini
 U _init
 U _init_tls
 T _start
0020 t _start1
 r abitag
 U atexit
0004 C environ
 U exit
 U main
which shows that _start is defined here, (but not e.g. _init). On the
other hand the function main() which is defined in your program is 
referred to but undefined here.


-- 

Michel TALON

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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Michel Talon 
Polytropon said:

> If you decide to upgrade your ports tree because you need newer
> versions or specific features, it *may* be possible that a certain
> point in time of -RELEASE is not sufficient, and this might force
> you to change your road to follow -STABLE. This can either be the
> case by installing from an updated ports tree or from Latest/
> packages (instead of RELEASE one's).

An other option is to download a specific port from (*)
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/
and compiling it independently of the ports tree. In many cases it works 
perfectly OK and avoids to upgrade the ports tree itself and the 
destabilization which ensues. Of course you can also upgrade
frequently the ports tree and run frequently portupgrade or portmaster,
if you like tinkering with your machine.


(*) in any given port you will find
"Download this directory in tarball"

-- 

Michel TALON

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Re: ld(1) cannot find entry symbol _start;

2010-09-28 Thread Paul B Mahol 
On 9/28/10, Anton Shterenlikht  wrote:
> I'm trying to learn the very basics of the
> compile - assemble - link process on FreeBSD.
> Please don't shoot me.
>
> I've this c code:
>
> % cat tmp.c
> int main() {
> int a;
> int b;
> int c;
>
> a = 2;
> b = 3;
>
> c=a*b;
> }
>
> which I compile into assembly language:
>
> % gcc -v
> Using built-in specs.
> Target: ia64-undermydesk-freebsd
> Configured with: FreeBSD/ia64 system compiler
> Thread model: posix
> gcc version 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]
>
> % gcc -S tmp.c
>
> I then assemble the object file:
>
> % gcc -o tmp.o -c tmp.s
> % file tmp.o
> tmp.o: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, IA-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped
>
> Then I try to link the object file into
> an executable:
>
> % ld tmp.o

You are missing something in above command.
> ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 20f0
>
> Finally, when I try to run the executable,
> I get segfault:
>
> % ./a.out
> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
>
>
> Looking at the asm listing, there is indeed no
> _start symbol:
>
>
>   .file   "tmp.c"
>   .pred.safe_across_calls p1-p5,p16-p63
>   .text
>   .align 16
>   .global main#
>   .proc main#
> main:
>   .prologue 2, 2
>   .vframe r2
>   mov r2 = r12
>   .body
>   ;;
>   adds r15 = 8, r2
>   addl r14 = 2, r0
>   ;;
>   st4 [r15] = r14
>   adds r15 = 4, r2
>   addl r14 = 3, r0
>   ;;
>   st4 [r15] = r14
>   adds r14 = 8, r2
>   adds r15 = 4, r2
>   ;;
>   ld4 r16 = [r14]
>   ld4 r14 = [r15]
>   ;;
>   setf.sig f6 = r16
>   setf.sig f7 = r14
>   ;;
>   xmpy.l f6 = f6, f7
>   ;;
>   getf.sig r14 = f6
>   ;;
>   st4 [r2] = r14
>   .restore sp
>   mov r12 = r2
>   br.ret.sptk.many b0
>   ;;
>   .endp main#
>   .ident  "GCC: (GNU) 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]"
>
>
> What am I missing?
>
> I'm happy to be referred to FM.
>
> many thanks
> anton
>
> --
> Anton Shterenlikht
> Room 2.6, Queen's Building
> Mech Eng Dept
> Bristol University
> University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK
> Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944
> Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423
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ld(1) cannot find entry symbol _start;

2010-09-28 Thread Anton Shterenlikht 
I'm trying to learn the very basics of the
compile - assemble - link process on FreeBSD.
Please don't shoot me.

I've this c code:

% cat tmp.c
int main() {
int a;
int b;
int c;

a = 2;
b = 3;

c=a*b;
}

which I compile into assembly language:

% gcc -v
Using built-in specs.
Target: ia64-undermydesk-freebsd
Configured with: FreeBSD/ia64 system compiler
Thread model: posix
gcc version 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]

% gcc -S tmp.c

I then assemble the object file:

% gcc -o tmp.o -c tmp.s
% file tmp.o
tmp.o: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, IA-64, version 1 (FreeBSD), not stripped

Then I try to link the object file into
an executable:

% ld tmp.o
ld: warning: cannot find entry symbol _start; defaulting to 20f0

Finally, when I try to run the executable,
I get segfault:

% ./a.out 
Segmentation fault (core dumped)


Looking at the asm listing, there is indeed no
_start symbol:


.file   "tmp.c"
.pred.safe_across_calls p1-p5,p16-p63
.text
.align 16
.global main#
.proc main#
main:
.prologue 2, 2
.vframe r2
mov r2 = r12
.body
;;
adds r15 = 8, r2
addl r14 = 2, r0
;;
st4 [r15] = r14
adds r15 = 4, r2
addl r14 = 3, r0
;;
st4 [r15] = r14
adds r14 = 8, r2
adds r15 = 4, r2
;;
ld4 r16 = [r14]
ld4 r14 = [r15]
;;
setf.sig f6 = r16
setf.sig f7 = r14
;;
xmpy.l f6 = f6, f7
;;
getf.sig r14 = f6
;;
st4 [r2] = r14
.restore sp
mov r12 = r2
br.ret.sptk.many b0
;;
.endp main#
.ident  "GCC: (GNU) 4.2.1 20070719  [FreeBSD]"


What am I missing?

I'm happy to be referred to FM.

many thanks
anton

-- 
Anton Shterenlikht
Room 2.6, Queen's Building
Mech Eng Dept
Bristol University
University Walk, Bristol BS8 1TR, UK
Tel: +44 (0)117 331 5944
Fax: +44 (0)117 929 4423
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Re: FreeBSD 8.x and RAID Controllers from Areca and HP

2010-09-28 Thread Ivan Voras 

On 09/28/10 10:02, Maechler Philippe wrote:

Hello all,

I hope someone can help me installing FreeBSD 8.x with a RAID Controller
from HP or Areca.



and then the machine freezes. This happens on FreeBSD 7.3 - 8.1 (AMD64
and i386).
On FreeBSD 7.2 i386 there is no problem with the areca controller.

Google told me to disable the firewire and usb ports in the bios, we did
that without any improvments.


Try asking on hardware@ freebsd.org or stable@ freebsd.org if you don't 
get any replies here.


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MEncoder - nice allways 20, renice doesn't work

2010-09-28 Thread Mark Stapper 
 Hi all,

I've been playing around with incoding/recoding with mencoder.
On one of my boxes mencoder keeps having niceness 20.
I don't want mencoder to play nice so I try to renice the process, but
it resets to 20 within seconds!
Here's the info:


[st...@yoshi ~]$ mencoder -show-profile x264ac3
MEncoder SVN-r31746-snapshot-4.2.1 (C) 2000-2010 MPlayer Team
Profile x264ac3: x264 with ac3 audio
 ovc=x264=1
 x264encopts=crf=20:threads=auto
 oac=lavc=1
 lavcopts=acodec=ac3:abitrate=640:threads=6

FreeBSD mario 8.1-PRERELEASE FreeBSD 8.1-PRERELEASE #5: Mon Jun 21
19:34:39 CEST 2010 x...@mario:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/mario  amd64

Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Mark



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Problem with SASL authentication against Kerberos5 (Windows Active Directory)

2010-09-28 Thread Martin Schweizer 
Hello

My system:
FreeBSD  8.1-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE #2: Tue Aug 31 17:07:54 CEST
2010:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC  i386

Relevant part of the installed software:
# pkg_info|grep cyrus
cyrus-imapd-2.3.16_2 The cyrus mail server, supporting POP3 and IMAP4 protocols
cyrus-sasl-2.1.23   RFC  SASL (Simple Authentication and Security Layer)
cyrus-sasl-saslauthd-2.1.23 SASL authentication server for cyrus-sasl2

Kerberos5 settings:
They are all ok, because I can these cross check by using kinit (and
such tools), ldapsearch and of course the security event protocol of
the domain controllers. So I can say all this is ok.

/etc/rc.conf:
[snip]
saslauthd_enable="YES"
saslauthd_flags="-a kerberos5"


I use three of the above servers and with two of them I have no such
problems. Here what is going wrong:
After I update all my ports I can no longer authenticate against
Kerberos5. The test with testsaslauthd -u usernamex -p passwordx ends
always in
0: NO "authentication failed". In /var/log/auth.log I can see Sep 24
08:07:28  saslauthd[83827]: do_auth  : auth failure: [user=martin]
[service=imap] [realm=] [mech=kerberos5] [reason=krb5_verify_user_opt
failed]. What's intressting if I use saslauthd_flags="-a pam" then all
is working as expected. And again before the update all worked without
any problems. Any ideas?

Regards,
-- 

Martin Schweizer


PC-Service M. Schweizer GmbH; Bannholzstrasse 6; CH-8608 Bubikon
Tel. +41 55 243 30 00; Fax: +41 55 243 33 22

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FreeBSD 8.x and RAID Controllers from Areca and HP

2010-09-28 Thread Maechler Philippe 
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Hash: SHA1

Hello all,

I hope someone can help me installing FreeBSD 8.x with a RAID Controller
from HP or Areca.

We have a HP Proliant DL320 G6 Server with a built in HP Smart Array
Controller. Since we haven't any luck in using the raid controllers from
hp we bought an Areca ARC1210 Raid Card.

When we boot up from the cd the installer hangs with:
run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still waiting after 60 seconds for xpt_config
run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still waiting after 120 seconds for xpt_config
run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still waiting after 180 seconds for xpt_config
run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still waiting after 240 seconds for xpt_config
run_interrupt_driven_hooks: still waiting after 300 seconds for xpt_config

and then the machine freezes. This happens on FreeBSD 7.3 - 8.1 (AMD64
and i386).
On FreeBSD 7.2 i386 there is no problem with the areca controller.

Google told me to disable the firewire and usb ports in the bios, we did
that without any improvments.


Some additional information from the machine:
HP Proliant DL320 G6; XEON E5505 1.87Ghz and 4GB RAM
HP Smart Array B110i V1.38
Areca ARC1210 Driver Verson 1.20.00.16 2009-10-10
Areca ARC1210 Firmware Verson 1.48 2009-12-31 (we tried V1.46 before)




Kind regards

Philippe
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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Polytropon 
On Tue, 28 Sep 2010 02:24:26 -0500, Ryan Coleman  wrote:
> As I understand it: The OS itself is stable, but the ports are
> constantly in flux and may be issues.

Not exactly. It depends on which update road you follow.

Say, you use freebsd-update (the binary update), or use c(v)sup
to track -RELEASE (including the security patches), your OS is
stable. Certain points in time can be addressed by a specific
patch level, e. g. -RELEASE-p1 for the first one, -RELEASE-p2
for the second one, and so on.

If you track -STABLE by using c(v)sup (doesn't work with the
binary freebsd-update!), your OS is also stable. There is no
further "versioning" as with the patch levels; the date decides.
As you can't binary upgrade here, compiling yourself is needed.

But if you track -CURRENT (means -HEAD), it *might* be that the
OS won't even compile, or runs unstable. This is due to the fact
that *this* branch does sometimes include experimental changes
or features that are tested, and maybe removed later on. It's
obvious that you need to retrieve the sources and compile your-
self in this case, too.

Ports, on the other hand, are not related to the OS version. If
you use -RELEASE for example, you can, if it fits your needs,
stay with the default ports tree that has been "issued" the same
time the release came out. This is the state you'll find on the
installation media. You can also use the precompiled packages.

If you decide to upgrade your ports tree because you need newer
versions or specific features, it *may* be possible that a certain
point in time of -RELEASE is not sufficient, and this might force
you to change your road to follow -STABLE. This can either be the
case by installing from an updated ports tree or from Latest/
packages (instead of RELEASE one's).

Summary: -RELEASE and -STABLE are stable, -CURRENT or -HEAD do not
neccessarily have to be.





-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread Ryan Coleman 

On Sep 28, 2010, at 2:02 AM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:

> Mike Clarke  wrote:
>> On Monday 27 September 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
>>> I've recently started on a new system, and am planning to
>>> install 8.1-RELEASE, including the corresponding ports tree;
>>> then install what ports I can from packages and also fetch the
>>> corresponding distfiles; and finally build -- from release-
>>> corresponding ports -- any that aren't available as packages or
>>> where I want non-default OPTION settings.  That approach should
>>> avoid most nasty surprises while getting things set up and
>>> working.  _After_ everything is installed and configured
>>> properly will be plenty soon enough to consider whether any
>>> ports need to be updated -- and the already-installed-and-
>>> working package collection will provide a fallback in case
>>> of trouble trying to build any updated versions.
>> 
>> The problem is if/when you need to update a port as a result of
>> a security advisory. If your ports tree is very much out of date
>> then it's likely that updating that one port will require a number
>> of dependencies to be updated as well, sometimes all the ports
>> depending on one or more of the updated dependencies need to be
>> updated as well and the resultant bag of worms can take quite a
>> lot of sorting out.  The "little and often" approach of keeping
>> the ports tree up to date could be less traumatic.
> 
> and, in this context, your point is?
> 
> I'm advocating starting from a stable and self-consistent baseline,
> consisting of a release _and_ its corresponding port/package
> collection, and then considering whether any updates are needed.
> Isn't that orthogonal to the question of whether or not to follow
> ports updates, once the baseline has been established?

As I understand it: The OS itself is stable, but the ports are constantly in 
flux and may be issues.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: Free BSD 8.1

2010-09-28 Thread perryh 
Mike Clarke  wrote:
> On Monday 27 September 2010, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> > I've recently started on a new system, and am planning to
> > install 8.1-RELEASE, including the corresponding ports tree;
> > then install what ports I can from packages and also fetch the
> > corresponding distfiles; and finally build -- from release-
> > corresponding ports -- any that aren't available as packages or
> > where I want non-default OPTION settings.  That approach should
> > avoid most nasty surprises while getting things set up and
> > working.  _After_ everything is installed and configured
> > properly will be plenty soon enough to consider whether any
> > ports need to be updated -- and the already-installed-and-
> > working package collection will provide a fallback in case
> > of trouble trying to build any updated versions.
>
> The problem is if/when you need to update a port as a result of
> a security advisory. If your ports tree is very much out of date
> then it's likely that updating that one port will require a number
> of dependencies to be updated as well, sometimes all the ports
> depending on one or more of the updated dependencies need to be
> updated as well and the resultant bag of worms can take quite a
> lot of sorting out.  The "little and often" approach of keeping
> the ports tree up to date could be less traumatic.

and, in this context, your point is?

I'm advocating starting from a stable and self-consistent baseline,
consisting of a release _and_ its corresponding port/package
collection, and then considering whether any updates are needed.
Isn't that orthogonal to the question of whether or not to follow
ports updates, once the baseline has been established?
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