Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
***you are a man of high ideas Ted, but you are overlooking a fundamental aspect, that ALL LIFE IS TEMPORAL - AND MOVES ON WITH CONTINUAL CHANGE AND IMPROVEMENT which means to say : DONT CLING TO THE PAST WHEN OPPORTUNITIES TO PROGRESS OCCUR ***for example almost every week i sort thru the computer room - updating files and hardware, and most importantly CHUCKING OUT old stuff that is obsolete or doesnt work. if i didnt do that the room would be jammed solid. Just the same with your MIND. clear out the junk and move on. PEOPLE DIE. LOVED ONES DIE. we will meet them again ONE DAY, but in the mean-time MOVE ON.more people to meet. more things to do. MORE OVERSTANDING OF THE TOTAL PATTERN OF LIFE TO OBTAIN. you dont have to be religious to believe in the AFTERLIFE and PURPOSE. CHOP THE BEASTIE if you feel like it ! if god starts annoying you, then tell it (that Kamanistic Temporal Image) to fuck off. put a FRESH new label on,and start a fresh NEW DAY :) does not mean you forget the past and origins, just means you dont get DRAGGED BACK by them. ***wow, thats a load off my chest !now something technical Ted can you tell me please how to change the Screen resolution ? [exact command line please - im an fbsd rookie].many thanks :) --- On Saturday 12 February 2005 09:49, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: You and I both understand the ideals at stake with Beastie. But an even more important ideal is that a civilized person fights against something he sees that is wrong, he does not remain silent. Remaining silent when an injustice is being done makes you no better than the criminal doing the injustice. Even if we lose this and are pushed over, it doesen't matter, because when we chose to fight, even though we lose, that means we have won when it comes to the higher ideal of fighting against injustice. I feel sorry for people like Garance, really. Here's a person who is tired of explaining Beastie, in short, he is tired of explaining the ideals of why FreeBSD is important. To him, FreeBSD is just another operating system - it's a better tool than the others, yes, but to him that is all there is to it. He doesen't really care about the ideals behind Open Source, not emotionally that is. To him it is all intellectual. He has no passion anymore for it, if he ever did. His goal is to see FreeBSD expanded simply because it's better than all the other operating systems, and he is willing even to sacrifice things that are integral to it - such as Beastie - in his quest to expand it. What he sadly doesen't understand is that going down this road means that at every turn you compromise something else, and that by the time you get to the end of the road, what you have been carrying is so twisted and changed that you hate it and hate yourself for allowing it to be ruined. You and I we know that there is more to the FreeBSD operating system movement than mere software. And a lot of the userbase understands this at a gut level too. We may not be able to immediately frame in words what that indefinable thing is - but we know it's there. Unless you want to switch that part of yourself off, your not going to be able to help seeing that what is happening is wrong. And when you know that something is wrong, you also know that you have a duty to speak out about it. Also, don't forget that there are many people that who are just beginning to understand what FreeBSD is all about. Even though they don't fully understand what makes FreeBSD so special and unique yet, this issue still matters to them, and they are depending on folks like us who do fully understand it. We also have a duty to them to speak out. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Technically superior products WAS RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 2:13 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Technically superior products are technically superior because they have MORE than the customary RD put into them. That makes them MORE expensive than the median/mediocre products that dominate a market. Explain Intel. Do you like giving me fish in a barrel or what? :-) Actually, I know you were making a joke. I did laugh. But this actually proves my point. Back in the olden days when the computer market still had the potential for accepting a better-but-radically different PC design, the Intel CPU family was pretty lame compared to many other designs (ie: Zilog Z80 for example) But, it was cheap. Today of course, there are only 2 CPU companies that matter, AMD and Intel. But, their products are completely tied to the current PC paradigm due to the absolute requirement for backwards compatability - and that absolute requirement exists because of the usual BINARY distribution of software. If you are willing to jettison that paradigm there are many far better and more exciting and more advanced CPU designs in the universities. Obviously since they have no economies of scale they would be horribly expensive. And since it's possible to get their performance with clusters of cheap, mediocre CPUs in commodity computers, the economics have pretty much dictated they will remain ideas only. One of these days if we are lucky, Open Source will prevail, and the day will come that for a program to support a completely different computer architecture, a simple recompile will be all that is needed. Since users will get source with the applications they get, doing this will be not impossible. At that time we may then see the computer hardware market go back to normal competition. But until then it is important to keep in mind that the computer desktop hardware market is in the middle of an anomaly. But, be afraid. The telephone handset market was in such the same anomaly for almost a century. Today we are seeing the beginnings of VoIP which may change the paradigm and reignight some real competition. But then again it may not. Television sets remained the same for about 40 years there also. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
On Thursday 10 February 2005 11:38 pm, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick Davies Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! * Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0255 08:55]: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead of reading their minds? Why should I when Robert Watson made the following quote in Advocacy: We'd like to get a logo we can provide to companies that are willing to stick it on their products as supporting FreeBSD Explain how this has nothing to do with money, please? Ted I thought it referred to FreeBSD driver support in retail products. Sure, it means the companies will get more of my money because there would be more compatible hardware that's easy to identify. It does not necessarily equate to money for FreeBSD developers, however. Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
* Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0238 05:38]: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick Davies Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! * Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0255 08:55]: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead of reading their minds? Why should I when Robert Watson made the following quote in Advocacy: Because Robert Watson is'nt involved. Also then maybe this thread would die. -- 'Yeah, well I'm gonna build my own themepark! With blackjack aaand Hookers! Actually, forget the park. And the blackjack.' -- Bender Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
On 02/10/05 10:30 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt sat at the `puter and typed: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Louis LeBlanc Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:59 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! Those technical criteria were NOT drawn out in community fashion. They forgot one very important thing: The logo must be historically significant. That bit about not offending anyone is bullshit plain and simple. I for one think this whole PC movement is bull. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for peoples right to live their lives, but the PC movement should have died exactly two days after it started. Louis, There is a difference between deliberately making people feel bad and offending people. The PC movement originally started with the noble idea that people should not try to deliberately make other people unhappy. This idea works very well with young children, and I must admit that I agree with it. I disagree. That's just good education. The PC movement was a social requirement to analyze every thing you say lest someone find a way to be offended by it. It did masquerad as a formalization of the idea, but the idea that you shouldn't deliberately make other people feel bad was certainly around 37 years ago when Mr. and Mrs. LeBlanc brought their son home from the hospital. I suspect it was around long before then. My 5 year old never needed to be told or taught not to hurt others' feelings. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen. She, however, becomes quite upset when she's told - however gently - that she's just done or said something offensive. That's the way children are when their parents take a real interest early on. All we did is make her aware of her own natural empathy. She'd probably be a doormat if we really tried to bring that out. The problem is that when certain individuals get older, they start to believe that when someone does something that they don't approve of, that has no effect on their lives in any way, shape or form, that somehow it hurts them. For example Ashcroft was certain that when 2 gays somewhere got married, that he suffered personal injury. It is these people who have perverted the PC doctorine into something along the lines of well you 2 fags are getting married only to get me so upset that I cannot ever get an erection again, so I'm justified in taking a club to you and beating your brains in I couldn't possibly agree more. PC became into the new fundamentalism; it was used primarily as a social weapon instead of a teaching paradigm. Zero Tolerance is the new one. Beastie became the FreeBSD Project's logo for many reasons, liking it was only one of them. However never at any time did this happen just to spite fundies. Nor does use of this logo affect fundies on a personal level, they aren't required to look at it if they run FreeBSD, nor are they required to talk about it. Therefore it is a perversion of the politically correct doctorine for fundies to claim that use of Beastie isn't politically correct. It is just like the breastfeeding in public debate. It is a sad state of affairs in this country today when states have had to pass laws (like NY did) that specifically permit a woman to flop out her tit to feed a hungry child, because the fundies think that seeing a tit somehow harms them. Agreed. It's just hard to see people understanding how the backlash from these societal errors could translate into a fervent wish to keep a little red dude with horns and a tail on your computer. Other than these, I have to admit that the best reason I have for keeping him is that I like him and he's too ingrained to ever really be removed anyway. The business reasons in favor of changing him just don't make sense, but I have seen companies do better after a logo change. The social reasons just piss me off - possibly for no good reason. So, do you draw the line in the sand here, or just step back? I've drawn my lines before, and most of the time I'm *made* to step back. Every time you draw another line, you get more fanatical or more tired. If you rankle over the lines you've drawn in the past, you get more fanatical. Otherwise those lines start to make less sense and you just get tired and start accepting the ideals you drew lines against. Lou -- Louis LeBlanc FreeBSD-at-keyslapper-DOT-net Fully Funded Hobbyist, KeySlapper Extrordinaire :) Please send off-list email to: leblanc at keyslapper d.t net Key fingerprint = C5E7 4762 F071 CE3B ED51 4FB8 AF85 A2FE 80C8 D9A2 One can't proceed from the informal to the formal by formal means. pgpNSwxGxswcC.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: Andrew L. Gould [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:34 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! Explain how this has nothing to do with money, please? Ted I thought it referred to FreeBSD driver support in retail products. Sure, it means the companies will get more of my money because there would be more compatible hardware that's easy to identify. It does not necessarily equate to money for FreeBSD developers, however. I never said it did. But quite obviously if FreeBSD usage expands, the developers skills become more valuable, they are worth more, can command more money, you know the rest. However, I will say that I don't think the developers in favor of this are looking at that. I do think though that the ones in favor have had pressure from companies to dump beastie - not perhaps direct pressure, but indirect pressure. And so far the strongest reasons cited by the developers in favor of this have been because corporate groups have made an issue about Beastie. Why do these developers care what some corporate group thinks if money has nothing to do with it? This gets into the question of just who are we creating FreeBSD for - ourselves and other users of FreeBSD - or the rest of the world who isn't using FreeBSD, and our goal is to go try pushing it. FreeBSD's strength has always been precisely because the people creating and contributing and using it have not been interested in writing it how someone else wants it, but have been interested in writing it how THEY themeselves want it. What happens is developers and the users that help them in the development process (beta testing, user feedback, etc.) are only concerned with their own problems and so they spend all their time perfecting the software to fix their problems. Because of this focusing, the code really can become very close to perfection and ends up solving that problem very, very well. Then what happens is the rest of the world sees how good it works and starts thinking about ways that they can modify their own environment to take advantage of the FreeBSD way of doing things. Novell in it's heyday had a phrase for this: Think Red What this meant was that Novell understood one of the truisms in software: you can either do a few things very good, or a lot of things rather poorly. When Novell lost sight of this was when they came out with Netware 4, which was an attempt to satisfy a bunch of large customers. Instead of writing Netware to be even better at what it was doing, they tried to make it a kitchen sink that would fix everything for everybody. Since the result didn't fix anything for anybody well enough for production use, the large customers never materialized, and the smaller customers decided they had had enough of this shit, and all went to Microsoft. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: And, I am also concerned about the historical revisionists who are claiming FreeBSD never had a logo. That is hogwash. Where can I see the logo? On the cover of any FreeBSD CDROM purchased from Walnut Creek. However, use of the devil image associated with UNIX predates this by nearly 2 decades. Nobody ever said that FreeBSD lacked a logo until after a few days ago when this ill-conceived competition was leaked - because everyone knew the logo was Beastie. That's not a logo. Just about every image I've seen of Beastie has been different, so it's not a logo, it's a character associated with the brand (like Mickey Mouse). Logos are simple and instantly recognizable; they do not mutate from one presentation to the next. The logo image that uses Beastie first appeared on the FreeBSD 1.1 cdrom and was used as a logo in the bottom of every single Walnut Creek CDROM including the ones that came out after BSDI bought them, except it didn't appear on the 2.0 CDROM case. That is the most recognizable logo, and even today appears on the top of the FreeBSD website, to the right of the name FreeBSD. The logo has switched direction a few times. The original WC drawing had him looking left, most WC pressings have him looking left in the logo but a few have him looking right. The images of Beastie on the WC cd's that are in the main part of the CD have changed quite a bit, of course. This is the actual logo of FreeBSD and for years was used, it is still the most recognizable as the logo by the userbase. Most open-source projects don't have logos; even Linux lacks a proper logo (one could probably be made from the popular penguin character, but I haven't seen any examples). Red Hat, however, _does_ have a logo. And this is relevant, how exactly? Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. Logos need to be as neutral as possible, since they will be very widely used and very heavily imprinted in customers' minds. They must not conjure up thoughts of anything except the brand they represent. You mean like the ATT Death Star. That must be why they aren't doing so well lately. har har. This is YOUR interpretation of a logo. And I have as a matter of fact seen the one you drew that you posted a link to before you responded here so if that is your idea of how a logo should be drawn I think I know what you mean. Perhaps you are aware that fashions in logos come and go - word logos are very common these days, they didn't used to be however. Frankly though the finer points of what typeface and colors are used are utterly lost on most people. I personally find word logos to be very boring. From a business sense they are not very smart because if the business is ever sold, then the acquiring business jettisons all of the name recognition and imprinting you are talking about when they change the name. I wonder if perhaps the reason word logos are popular is due to the egos of the company founders - probably as little boys they were the ones that could pee their names in the snow. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag ... That's why I figured I'd try my hand at it; see http://perso.wanadoo.fr/anthony.atkielski/FreeBSDLogo1.jpg If you pitched the heart (Valentines day must be on your mind) and made a real honest to God devils tail instead, it might have a shot in the competition. It meets the technical criteria for a logo; the aesthetic aspect is an open question. This logo concept uses ITC Garamond Bold And who do we have to pay royalties to or buy that font from? Actually, I think the devil aspect has little impact on public perception of FreeBSD. It's having a cute little cartoon mascot in sneakers that has the real impact--it implies that FreeBSD is a toy for kids, not a serious product for professionals and corporations. A more serious image of Beastie should be considered for these venues. And in any case, this mascot is distinct from a logo. The image used on your book is not a logo. I didn't say that -that- image was a logo nor did I say I was using the FreeBSD logo on the cover of my book - I said I was using the FreeBSD devil image. And if you look again at the book cover you might note that the computer behind Beastie somewhat resembles a PDP. Use of a beastie likeness in artwork does not necessairly assume the use of the beastie logo. As my book was not a product of the Project, it wouldn't have been strictly accurate to use the Project's logo. However, the red devil usage with UNIX predates FreeBSD by many years, and they wern't wearing sneakers on the cover of the UCB UNIX manuals. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. Personally, I wonder how FreeBSD survives based exclusively on volunteer efforts. It's a noble idea, but in the real world, things cost money, and people need to earn a living. Something that survives exclusively from the kindness of strangers leads a fragile existence. FreeBSD has a large following and seems reasonably stable, but when something is a volunteer effort, the larger the following, the better. This depends on your definition of survival. As long as FreeBSD runs on some hardware, and people still use it, it's surviving. The only real issue I see to FreeBSD's survival that requires corporate attention is device drivers for new hardware. And this is an issue that harms all operating systems even Windows. There are just as many older versions of Windows being made unrunnable by new hardware that lacks drivers for it, as BSD versions. but beyond this, the computer industry itself is in a real growth slump anyway. The 8080 IBM PCjr architecture is still at the core of new PC hardware. What growth we are seeing is the increasing commoditization of hardware. Unfortunately this is stunting the introduction of newer and possibly better ways to build a computer, all it does is just make the hardware cheaper and cheaper, and less and less innovative. (not that I'm complaining about the cheaper part, of course) Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: On the cover of any FreeBSD CDROM purchased from Walnut Creek. However, use of the devil image associated with UNIX predates this by nearly 2 decades. A devil image used in a general way isn't a logo, just as various images of windows are not the same as the official Windows logos. The logo image that uses Beastie first appeared on the FreeBSD 1.1 cdrom and was used as a logo in the bottom of every single Walnut Creek CDROM including the ones that came out after BSDI bought them, except it didn't appear on the 2.0 CDROM case. That is the most recognizable logo, and even today appears on the top of the FreeBSD website, to the right of the name FreeBSD. Still, it's not very consistent. The Beastie image is a cartoon character, and cartoon characters are assumed to be changing, moving entities--they make poor logos, although a very stylized logo can be based on a cartoon character (such as the mouse ears used by Disney). The logo has switched direction a few times. The original WC drawing had him looking left, most WC pressings have him looking left in the logo but a few have him looking right. That's way too inconsistent for a logo. And this is relevant, how exactly? It illustrates the difference between a logo and an image or entity associated with a product or service that is not a logo (such as a cartoon character or mascot). You mean like the ATT Death Star. Yes. Major corporations invest zillions of dollars in their logo designs and are extremely careful about making them as neutral as possible. They must remind no one of anything except the product or service being represented. (I actually don't see a Death Star in the ATT logo, but apparently someone, somewhere once did, and the nickname stuck, like the NASA worm, IIRC.) This is YOUR interpretation of a logo. Judging by the logos I see out in the real world, it's a very widespread interpretation. Indeed, the larger and more successful a company tends to be, the simpler its logo often becomes. Complex logos that look like complete illustrations are the mark of small and amateurish enterprises. And I have as a matter of fact seen the one you drew that you posted a link to before you responded here so if that is your idea of how a logo should be drawn I think I know what you mean. That is an example of the technical criteria that a logo should meet. The aesthetics are debatable, but the logo has the technical requirements met: simplicity, no more than two colors, no colors touching, no shading, screens, or blends, Pantone colors, no fine details or sharp corners, and good grayscale and BW rendering. Perhaps you are aware that fashions in logos come and go - word logos are very common these days, they didn't used to be however. It's best to follow the fashion in logo design, unless one is already so large and successful that one can afford to buck the trend (such as General Electric, which has kept the same logo for many decades). Frankly though the finer points of what typeface and colors are used are utterly lost on most people. Consciously, yes, but they unconsciously are influenced by the typeface and colors, and in a logo, this is very, very important. I personally find word logos to be very boring. Logos aren't designed to be interesting; they are designed to be remembered. From a business sense they are not very smart because if the business is ever sold, then the acquiring business jettisons all of the name recognition and imprinting you are talking about when they change the name. I guess that's why IBM, Microsoft, and GE don't use logotypes, eh? The Garamond typeface has long been associated with BSD, which is why I thought it might look good in a logo. I wonder if perhaps the reason word logos are popular is due to the egos of the company founders - probably as little boys they were the ones that could pee their names in the snow. The company founders usually don't design the logos in large and successful companies. They hire experts to do that. If you pitched the heart (Valentines day must be on your mind) and made a real honest to God devils tail instead, it might have a shot in the competition. I deliberately avoided that, because (1) anything that doesn't have an interpretation alternate to that of a devil's tail might offend the Bible thumpers, and they are customers, too; and (2) the alternate interpretation of a heart makes the brand seem a bit more human and lovable, and references the loyalty of the FreeBSD user community. And who do we have to pay royalties to or buy that font from? Nobody. You don't need a license to use a font. The shape of a font is not protected; only the name of the font is protected (copyrighted and/or trademarked), and the font files (which count as software) are protected by copyright. The font files are not used in this design, since I deliberately converted the letter forms to outlines for that reason.
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: This depends on your definition of survival. As long as FreeBSD runs on some hardware, and people still use it, it's surviving. No doubt, but to some extent the enthusiasm of the volunteers that work on the OS is a function of how many people they know to be using the software. The only real issue I see to FreeBSD's survival that requires corporate attention is device drivers for new hardware. And this is an issue that harms all operating systems even Windows. There are just as many older versions of Windows being made unrunnable by new hardware that lacks drivers for it, as BSD versions. Don't hardware manufacturers publish specs detailed enough to allow third parties to write drivers? but beyond this, the computer industry itself is in a real growth slump anyway. The 8080 IBM PCjr architecture is still at the core of new PC hardware. What growth we are seeing is the increasing commoditization of hardware. Unfortunately this is stunting the introduction of newer and possibly better ways to build a computer, all it does is just make the hardware cheaper and cheaper, and less and less innovative. (not that I'm complaining about the cheaper part, of course) I don't expect this to change. Computers are increasingly like washing machines or cars. Don't expect any huge innovations in the near future. Linux is a great case in point. What a pity that when people finally looked at something like UNIX, it turned out to not be UNIX at all, but someone cooked up in a schoolkid's garage. A perfect example of a product sold on hype alone, even though technically superior solutions already existed (but had no hype behind them). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Linux is a great case in point. What a pity that when people finally looked at something like UNIX, it turned out to not be UNIX at all, but someone cooked up in a schoolkid's garage. History repeating itself? Microsoft began life in Bill Gates' garage didn't it? A perfect example of a product sold on hype alone, even though technically superior solutions already existed (but had no hype behind them). History repeating itself? Can I say Microsoft? ;-) Mark --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0506-0, 08/02/2005 Tested on: 10/02/2005 13:44:59 avast! - copyright (c) 2000-2004 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
Mark Ovens writes: History repeating itself? Microsoft began life in Bill Gates' garage didn't it? Yes, but the logo did not. It was years before Microsoft adopted a consistent logo. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The only real issue I see to FreeBSD's survival that requires corporate attention is device drivers for new hardware. And this is an issue that harms all operating systems even Windows. There are just as many older versions of Windows being made unrunnable by new hardware that lacks drivers for it, as BSD versions. Don't hardware manufacturers publish specs detailed enough to allow third parties to write drivers? In a perfect world, Yes. In reality. No. A lot of hardware manufactures feel that they only need to support the 75% of the world that runs a proprietary OS. (this 75% figure was pulled out of my ass, it doesnt mean anything, just a representation) There is a general lack of support for the Free world from corporations developing hardware, this is one of the major downfalls in using Free software. (should say a Free OS, and not software in general) This is partially due to marketing and promotion of the OS in question. Take a look at a few major linux distributions for example. Lets say Fedora and SuSE. They have far superior hardware support than say slackware, or even FreeBSD for that matter. Why? Because they have major corporations backing them. With funding, promotion, etc... What does FreeBSD have? I dont have an answer for this yet. I'm not trying to start a flamewar, so dont take it that way. Just my 2 cents. Regards, Frank Laszlo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dick Davies Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:10 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! * Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0255 08:55]: Yep, I was wondering how long it would take before someone figured this one out. We know the real rea$on$ that this logo change is being contemplated, don't we. You seem to think you do, certainly. Why don't you ask core instead of reading their minds? Why should I when Robert Watson made the following quote in Advocacy: We'd like to get a logo we can provide to companies that are willing to stick it on their products as supporting FreeBSD Explain how this has nothing to do with money, please? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!!
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Louis LeBlanc Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 7:59 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo suchasNetBSD!!! Those technical criteria were NOT drawn out in community fashion. They forgot one very important thing: The logo must be historically significant. That bit about not offending anyone is bullshit plain and simple. I for one think this whole PC movement is bull. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for peoples right to live their lives, but the PC movement should have died exactly two days after it started. Louis, There is a difference between deliberately making people feel bad and offending people. The PC movement originally started with the noble idea that people should not try to deliberately make other people unhappy. This idea works very well with young children, and I must admit that I agree with it. The problem is that when certain individuals get older, they start to believe that when someone does something that they don't approve of, that has no effect on their lives in any way, shape or form, that somehow it hurts them. For example Ashcroft was certain that when 2 gays somewhere got married, that he suffered personal injury. It is these people who have perverted the PC doctorine into something along the lines of well you 2 fags are getting married only to get me so upset that I cannot ever get an erection again, so I'm justified in taking a club to you and beating your brains in Beastie became the FreeBSD Project's logo for many reasons, liking it was only one of them. However never at any time did this happen just to spite fundies. Nor does use of this logo affect fundies on a personal level, they aren't required to look at it if they run FreeBSD, nor are they required to talk about it. Therefore it is a perversion of the politically correct doctorine for fundies to claim that use of Beastie isn't politically correct. It is just like the breastfeeding in public debate. It is a sad state of affairs in this country today when states have had to pass laws (like NY did) that specifically permit a woman to flop out her tit to feed a hungry child, because the fundies think that seeing a tit somehow harms them. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
