Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
On Feb 9, 2005, at 7:22 PM, Erich Dollansky wrote: Hi, stheg olloydson wrote: Any communications should come from someone with an easy-to-pronounce northern European surname (but not French) and, if at all possible, a first name that sounds American. Can I suggest Mark from a lovely town in Austria? www.fucking.at This is the next kind of problems FreeBSD could face. Using words which have a very different meaning in some other language. I think it is absolutely not possible to cater for all those things. Just leave the logo as it is. That's just the point -- we don't HAVE a logo. We (the FreeBSD Project) have never HAD a logo. Walnut Creek had a few, printed on stickers, that featured FreeBSD (a trademark now owned by the FreeBSD Foundation) and the MASCOT (copyright Kirk McKusick, used by permission). We NEED a logo that reflects what FreeBSD is. The logo needs to convey what FreeBSD is (a computer operating system; fast, stable, secure, etc) in a way that speaks to people of many cultures and can be represented in a number of forms. Ideally, it will print nicely in magazines, on computer case badges, laptop stickers, bumper stickers, beer glasses, coffee mugs, and t-shirts, as well as stitched onto baseball caps, backpacks, and shirts. We're still firming up exactly how the contest will be decided. What every- one has been flying off the handle about was a pre-release of the competition that was likely leaked to slashdot by some charlatan who can't keep private communications private. The logo will (like all important decisions about FreeBSD) be decided by the committers, the people who have contributed their time, effort, and energy to the project, because they are the ones who have the most riding on it. -- Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket? Wes Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 01:41:29PM -0800, Johnson David wrote: From: stheg olloydson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Now as to the need to change the logo, to quote the announcement, This character sometimes treated with misinterpreted in the religious and cultural context. Over the years, the only complaints I have ever heard have come from America's Taliban. Leaving aside the question of whether or not the complainers are in a position to make any sort of IT decision, one must ask what is their motivation for complaining. They are simply trying to force their religious orthodoxy on others. These are the same people trying to eliminate the barrier between state and church to make the United States into a theocratic country. Therefore, these complaints can be categorized as coming from an irrational minority that should be ignored. Please keep your personal politics and cultural bigotry off of these lists. There is no America's Taliban, and the use of the term is used solely to incite emotions. Thinking that just because people share you views on operating systems they must also share you views on religion and foreign policy is sheer hubris. I realize that geeks and hackers tend to be irreligious, and Open Source a collection of global communities, but not until today have I seen such anti-Christian and anti-America bigotry in the FreeBSD community. Is this to be the new standard of discourse? If so, tell me now so I can avoid the rush in switching to another BSD. As a Christian I am not in the least offended by Beastie. But I am getting quite offended by people stereotyping my religion, nation and culture. David Johnson As a non-Christian, all I have to say to David is right on. I also like Beastie, and would be greatly annoyed if FreeBSD got rid of it. Political correctness sucks -- whatever side of the political spectrum it comes from. However, so-called free thinkers who bravely equate George Bush to Iranian mullahs and believe people who have a problem with ripping the heads off of nine-month fetuses are no different than the freaking Taliban are the same idiots who buy into Michael Moore's conspiracy theories, idolize the mass murderer Che Guevara, and think the CIA assassinated reggae singers because America was about to chill out too much. And, oh yes, I am also a Maryland Republican living in painfully liberal Montgomery County, where our great progressive government leaders, unlike the Talibanesque John Ashcroft, have banned smoking in bars, not to mention a flurry of others pieces of legislation that regulate people's private lives. And let's not forget, Stheg, that leftist European governments are not known for their great libertarian restraint. The anti-terrorism laws of many European nationsthink France, maybe Holland soon enough) make the Patriot Act look like something out of Mayberry. Know thyselves, hypocrites. Fundies aren't the only ones that need to mind their own business. Did I mention I like Beastie?) Rob. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: SPAM: Score 2.5: Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
--- Johnson David [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: stheg olloydson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Now as to the need to change the logo, to quote the announcement, This character sometimes treated with misinterpreted in the religious and cultural context. Over the years, the only complaints I have ever heard have come from America's Taliban. Leaving aside the question of whether or not the complainers are in a position to make any sort of IT decision, one must ask what is their motivation for complaining. They are simply trying to force their religious orthodoxy on others. These are the same people trying to eliminate the barrier between state and church to make the United States into a theocratic country. Therefore, these complaints can be categorized as coming from an irrational minority that should be ignored. Please keep your personal politics and cultural bigotry off of these lists. There is no America's Taliban, and the use of the term is used solely to incite emotions. Thinking that just because people share you views on operating systems they must also share you views on religion and foreign policy is sheer hubris. I realize that geeks and hackers tend to be irreligious, and Open Source a collection of global communities, but not until today have I seen such anti-Christian and anti-America bigotry in the FreeBSD community. Is this to be the new standard of discourse? If so, tell me now so I can avoid the rush in switching to another BSD. As a Christian I am not in the least offended by Beastie. But I am getting quite offended by people stereotyping my religion, nation and culture. David Johnson Well, well, well! Hit too close to home did I? I said that those complaining about the beastie belong to an irrational minority that wish to impose their religion on others. In what way is this statement bigotry or anti-Christian or anti-American? You, however, make a very revealing statement when you say, But I am getting quite offended by people stereotyping my religion, nation and culture. The operative word here is my. Why do you think that I am not a Christian American produced by the same culture as you? Is it because I have a name not typically associated with being an American? I think your assumption proves my xenophobia remark, at least in regards to you, don't you? Best regards, Stheg Olloydson __ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
it was said: As a non-Christian, all I have to say to David is right on. Sounds like you're another person who, for reasons that you know better than I, you seem to have taken my remarks as a personal attack. I also like Beastie, and would be greatly annoyed if FreeBSD got rid of it. Political correctness sucks -- whatever side of the political spectrum it comes from. Agreed to a point, the point being WHY beastie is replaced or, in newspeak, supplemented. If beastie were being supplemented as a routine matter of business as logos sometimes are, I wouldn't be annoyed, only disappointed. However, as you point out, beastie is being replaced in a capitulation to what you mischaracterize as political correctness. This is a case of theological correctness; politics doesn't enter into the discussion. What I said is that those who complained about beastie belong to a brand of religious ideology belonging to an irrational minority and as such they and their complaints should be ignored. However, so-called free thinkers who bravely equate George Bush to Iranian mullahs and believe people who have a problem with ripping the heads off of nine-month fetuses are no different than the freaking Taliban are the same idiots who buy into Michael Moore's conspiracy theories, idolize the mass murderer Che Guevara, and think the CIA assassinated reggae singers because America was about to chill out too much. I don't believe I mentioned anything about Bush, Iran, fetuses, Michael Moore, Che Guevara, or the CIA. Please keep to the discussion at hand if you're not irrational. And, oh yes, I am also a Maryland Republican living in painfully liberal Montgomery County, where our great progressive government leaders, unlike the Talibanesque John Ashcroft, have banned smoking in bars, not to mention a flurry of others pieces of legislation that regulate people's private lives. Sounds like you are unhappy with your local government. I would register and vote them out of office if I were you. That's how a representative democracy works. And let's not forget, Stheg, that leftist European governments are not known for their great libertarian restraint. The anti-terrorism laws of many European nationsthink France, maybe Holland soon enough) make the Patriot Act look like something out of Mayberry. Now I'm really puzzled. Are you saying that you are moving to Europe to get away from painfully liberal Montgomery County? I don't think you'll like it there after the novelty wears off. Compared to most of America, it's cold and expensive. Perhaps you, like Mr. Johnson, are assuming from my name that I am not American and are making a Europeans are worse than Americans argument. Once again, your words do more to prove than disprove my xenophobia remark. Know thyselves, hypocrites. Fundies aren't the only ones that need to mind their own business. Based on this statement, I infer you are calling people against religious oppression hypocrites, an interesting but contextually irrelevant remark. Unless you mean to imply that I personally am a hypocrite. If that is the case, adduce the statements I have made to make your case. You go on to say Fundies -and others- need to mind their own business. The problem here is the Fundies (your word, not mine) aren't minding their own business; they're minding ours! Also at issue is the way the decision to supplement beastie was made. Apparently, the FreeBSD Project thinks sneaking around and handing out a _fait accompli_ is the proper way to be professional in this community. As a member of this community, I AM minding my own business by taking them to task for a rather base betrayal of trust. Did I mention I like Beastie?) Good for you. Then you, too, should be against supplementing beastie for the same reason I am. Rob. Best regards, Stheg __ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
I was not asked my opinion about whether or not the logo needs changing. I would like to clarify the reason[s] for this. When you say, The FreeBSD Project is pleased to announce..., the statement implies a majority of the FreeBSD Project made this decision. Who is the FreeBSD Project? According to the announcement, The FreeBSD Project is a team of individuals from all corners of the globe who volunteer time and expertise to develop the FreeBSD operating system. When you say team do you mean only core? Are those few people the entire Project? You don't say that, so whether or not one is a member depends entirely if one volunteers to develop FreeBSD. The question is what does develop mean. Does one who donates money and/or hardware count? No. By your definition, the Project includes only those who supply time and expertise - only those that supply their personal service. What counts as expertise? Programming obviously, but what if a person produces only poor quality ports? What about documention? Clearly the person is supplying time and expertise, but does that count as developing FreeBSD? If yes, then what about answering questions on the mailing lists? Would that also count? Now as to the need to change the logo, to quote the announcement, This character sometimes treated with misinterpreted in the religious and cultural context. Over the years, the only complaints I have ever heard have come from America's Taliban. Leaving aside the question of whether or not the complainers are in a position to make any sort of IT decision, one must ask what is their motivation for complaining. They are simply trying to force their religious orthodoxy on others. These are the same people trying to eliminate the barrier between state and church to make the United States into a theocratic country. Therefore, these complaints can be categorized as coming from an irrational minority that should be ignored. A second point is made, And this daemon character seems cute from somebody's point of view, but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside. The point is better phrased as, The FreeBSD Project has decided that the beastie logo is unprofessional. This being the case, why does the Project think that the best way to get a professional logo is follow pretty much the same procedure that led to the beastie logo? Wouldn't a company that specializes in logo design/image consulting be far more qualified to design and select a new logo? Consider how much better Linux is doing in the maketplace than FreeBSD with its professional penguin logo. I, for one, think that logo choice is too important to be left amatuer attempts. A third point that was not raised is what else can be done to make FreeBSD look more professional. All official communication should be vetted by and reported as coming from a native American-English speaker. For example, from the announcement, written by Jun Kuriyama, And this daemon character seems cute from somebody's point of view, but somebody may think which does not suit for the professional products to indicate that are using the FreeBSD inside. The grammar is abominable. How can FreeBSD possibly be taken seriously as a professional product as long as it allows official communications to come from those that can barely communicate in American-English? Furthermore, Americans have time and again proven to be among the most xenophobic nationalities, especially toward other races and religions. Any communications should come from someone with an easy-to-pronounce northern European surname (but not French) and, if at all possible, a first name that sounds American. I realize that at first many will find my last point to be offensive, but I think it is just as important as changing the logo and should be given the same consideration. Best Regards, Stheg Olloydson P.S. Many cultures, such as the Japanese, think that you get what you pay for, so having the name FreeBSD is no different from being named ShiteBSD. I am looking forward to the competition to rename the OS. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 01:29:50PM -0800, stheg olloydson wrote: When you say, The FreeBSD Project is pleased to announce..., the statement implies a majority of the FreeBSD Project made this decision. Who is the FreeBSD Project? According to the announcement, Maybe I'm confused. Acoording to the home page: http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/ As of 2005-02-09, competition is not yet announced, and received 0 submissions. I'm on -announce, and saw no announcement about this competition. Perhaps, we're reading too far into a text file that no-one was supposed to see yet? Best Regards, Stheg Olloydson -- Brian Reichert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 37 Crystal Ave. #303Daytime number: (603) 434-6842 Derry NH 03038-1713 USA BSD admin/developer at large ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 05:34:59PM -0500, Brian Reichert wrote: On Wed, Feb 09, 2005 at 01:29:50PM -0800, stheg olloydson wrote: When you say, The FreeBSD Project is pleased to announce..., the statement implies a majority of the FreeBSD Project made this decision. Who is the FreeBSD Project? According to the announcement, Maybe I'm confused. Acoording to the home page: http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/ As of 2005-02-09, competition is not yet announced, and received 0 submissions. I'm on -announce, and saw no announcement about this competition. Perhaps, we're reading too far into a text file that no-one was supposed to see yet? Yes. Some committer must have leaked the information, and it apparently sent everyone into a panic. Calm down, folks :) Kris pgpCxUd1bFQSw.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: SPAM: Score 2.5: Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
From: stheg olloydson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Now as to the need to change the logo, to quote the announcement, This character sometimes treated with misinterpreted in the religious and cultural context. Over the years, the only complaints I have ever heard have come from America's Taliban. Leaving aside the question of whether or not the complainers are in a position to make any sort of IT decision, one must ask what is their motivation for complaining. They are simply trying to force their religious orthodoxy on others. These are the same people trying to eliminate the barrier between state and church to make the United States into a theocratic country. Therefore, these complaints can be categorized as coming from an irrational minority that should be ignored. Please keep your personal politics and cultural bigotry off of these lists. There is no America's Taliban, and the use of the term is used solely to incite emotions. Thinking that just because people share you views on operating systems they must also share you views on religion and foreign policy is sheer hubris. I realize that geeks and hackers tend to be irreligious, and Open Source a collection of global communities, but not until today have I seen such anti-Christian and anti-America bigotry in the FreeBSD community. Is this to be the new standard of discourse? If so, tell me now so I can avoid the rush in switching to another BSD. As a Christian I am not in the least offended by Beastie. But I am getting quite offended by people stereotyping my religion, nation and culture. David Johnson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
Hi, stheg olloydson wrote: Any communications should come from someone with an easy-to-pronounce northern European surname (but not French) and, if at all possible, a first name that sounds American. Can I suggest Mark from a lovely town in Austria? www.fucking.at This is the next kind of problems FreeBSD could face. Using words which have a very different meaning in some other language. I think it is absolutely not possible to cater for all those things. Just leave the logo as it is. Erich PS My name would meet Sthegs suggestion and people would still not be able to pronounce it properly ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD logo design competition
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005, stheg olloydson wrote: P.S. Many cultures, such as the Japanese, think that you get what you pay for, so having the name FreeBSD is no different from being named ShiteBSD. I am looking forward to the competition to rename the OS. The name also has to be changed: Free: for free - what are about the people in jail using FreeBSD re: for re - what about all the contra and bock B: countrycode for Belgium - what do people living in luxemburg think SD: for South Dakota or Sudan - what do the people in North Dakota think? Oliver -- ... don't touch the bang bang fruit ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
