Re: Hi i want to ask a question
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:00:11 +0300 (EEST), Ivan Ivanov wrote: Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD It is very well possible, but you need to pay attention to a few things: 1. You won't be able to build things from source on that machine. Consider using packages for installation, or a second system to build and export (via NFS) the data required. 2. You will have to choose wisely what you install. You can install the OS plus X, and then be very selective regarding the applications. Firefox for example may be a bit heavy as a web browser, but there are alternatives, such as dillo or lynx (in graphics mode). Also choose your work and multimedia applications wisely. There _are_ still programs in the ports collection that are very low on bloat, but you need to do some research to find them. 3. For using your applications within the GUI, choose a good window manager, e. g. FVWM or XFCE 3 (not 4!), or IceWM or Blackbox or olvwm or something comparable. You need to try which one fits your needs. Maybe a tiling window manager would be even better -- but I can't recommend one, because their magic didn't open up to my ignorant mind yet. :-) 4. Refering to no. 1, you should also aim to build a custom kernel on another machine that exactly fits the hardware that you have present in the Thinkpad. Streamline your kernel. Make it reflect the present hardware configuration. Maybe there are even some options and tunables to make it run better than the GENERIC kernel. The main limiting factor I see is the 64 MB RAM. If you have the chance, try to upgrade it. I know that's not easily possible. Note: I've been using FreeBSD 4 and 5 on a 150 MHz Pentium (1) with 64 MB (later on: 128 MB) RAM and 8 GB disk. This machine could compile the world (even though it needed 24 h to do that), fetch an ISO via FTP, play MP3 music via xmms, and still offer a well responding web browsing experience using Opera. NO JOKE. Mister Coffee was my first FreeBSD workstation. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
1. You won't be able to build things from source on that machine. Consider using packages for installation, or a second system to build and export (via NFS) the data required. You can but... too slow 3. For using your applications within the GUI, choose a good window manager, e. g. FVWM or XFCE 3 (not 4!), or IceWM or Blackbox or olvwm or something comparable. You need to try which one fits your needs. Maybe a tiling window manager would be even better -- but I can't recommend one, because their magic didn't open up to my ignorant mind yet. :-) Actually everything should work fine with window managers you mentioned. The real problems are modern programs like firefox. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
On Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:00:11 +0300 (EEST), Ivan Ivanov wrote: Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD Polytropon free...@edvax.de responded: It is very well possible, but you need to pay attention to a few things: 1. You won't be able to build things from source on that machine. Consider using packages for installation, or a second system to build and export (via NFS) the data required. 2. You will have to choose wisely what you install. You can install the OS plus X, and then be very selective regarding the applications. Firefox for example may be a bit heavy as a web browser, but there are alternatives, such as dillo or lynx (in graphics mode). Also choose your work and multimedia applications wisely. There _are_ still programs in the ports collection that are very low on bloat, but you need to do some research to find them. 3. For using your applications within the GUI, choose a good window manager, e. g. FVWM or XFCE 3 (not 4!), or IceWM or Blackbox or olvwm or something comparable. You need to try which one fits your needs. Maybe a tiling window manager would be even better -- but I can't recommend one, because their magic didn't open up to my ignorant mind yet. :-) 4. Refering to no. 1, you should also aim to build a custom kernel on another machine that exactly fits the hardware that you have present in the Thinkpad. Streamline your kernel. Make it reflect the present hardware configuration. Maybe there are even some options and tunables to make it run better than the GENERIC kernel. The main limiting factor I see is the 64 MB RAM. If you have the chance, try to upgrade it. I know that's not easily possible. Note: I've been using FreeBSD 4 and 5 on a 150 MHz Pentium (1) with 64 MB (later on: 128 MB) RAM and 8 GB disk. This machine could compile the world (even though it needed 24 h to do that), fetch an ISO via FTP, play MP3 music via xmms, and still offer a well responding web browsing experience using Opera. NO JOKE. Mister Coffee was my first FreeBSD workstation. :-) On part 1, it might be possible to build things on the old machine, but only little things. Ports tree and source tree would really pinch the hard disk space (5 GB). Would you actually boot the IBM Thinkpad by network, keep source and ports trees on a newer computer's hard drive, do the building on the newer computer, and install by NFS? I've thought of doing that, have no intention to upgrade FreeBSD 8.2 to 9.0 on old computer, where FreeBSD slice is 12 GB and I'd have to rebuild all ports , and in all likelihood bog down. On part 2, do you mean lynx or links? Lynx is text-mode but can show images on a separate screen: I did that with DR-DOS 7.03 long ago and more recently FreeDOS. Links can be built with graphics, there is even a DOS port, but a far cry from Firefox (try Midori?) which have no DOS ports. I think there is also w3m? Building the kernel is nowhere near as time-consuming as buildworld. On my older computer, building a custom kernel took about 25 minutes for NetBSD, 75 minutes for FreeBSD 8.2, and 130 minutes for Gentoo Linux, and the Gentoo Linux kernel proved nonbootable. On the last part, time required to download an ISO would depend on type of connection more than CPU speed. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
On Fri, 06 Jul 2012 04:05:36 -0400, Thomas Mueller wrote: On part 1, it might be possible to build things on the old machine, but only little things. It _will_ work, it just will take some time. If that isn't a major concern -- no problem. If the machine is low on RAM, there should at least be sufficient swap space. Ports tree and source tree would really pinch the hard disk space (5 GB). Using them via NFS (when needed) or as read-only source from a CD could be possible. However, I'd suggest using the NFS approach during installation time. On the described hardware, the usage paradigm should be: INSTALL ONCE, THEN KEEP USING. If updates are required, using an external compiler would be the best choice. In case you're only using precompiled packages (installs via pkg_add -r), you don't need the ports tree at all. For dealing with the system (from /usr/src), if it has to be present on disk, /usr/obj could be used via NFS on some scratch disk. There are many possibilities to get the job done. They all require some time, but it _is_ possible. On part 2, do you mean lynx or links? I think it was links that also had a GUI port. There may be other lightweight browsers (like dillo) that one could consider using. Of course none of them will utilize Flash. :-) Links can be built with graphics, there is even a DOS port, but a far cry from Firefox (try Midori?) which have no DOS ports. I think there is also w3m? I know w3m is a very nice text mode browser, I can't say if it has graphics support. Building the kernel is nowhere near as time-consuming as buildworld. True, but if you update kernel and world, both have to be processes. Otherwise, you could stay on the installed version level (e. g. 9.0) and only tweak GENERIC into something that is more efficient. But in that case, sources should not be altered. On my older computer, building a custom kernel took about 25 minutes for NetBSD, 75 minutes for FreeBSD 8.2, and 130 minutes for Gentoo Linux, and the Gentoo Linux kernel proved nonbootable. That's normal. :-) On the last part, time required to download an ISO would depend on type of connection more than CPU speed. Sure, no big CPU load. I just wanted to illustrate that this old system could do things that some modern PCs fail to do: Just imagine users complaining about skipping audio when they move windows across the screen... :-) And I still have the machine I described. Mister Coffee is currently installed with FreeBSD 8.2, expecting to be used for experimental projects as an internal file / IRC / maybe OA server. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
re. Hi i want to ask a question
Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD I've been using even slower Thinkpads (300MHz), there are a few things to be aware of. Check on http://www.thinkwiki.org if the ethernet connection is supported, also the graphic card (if you need a Windowmanager). Soundcard can be an issue too. Try to get some more RAM for it. On internet auctions you find them for a few bucks, check on the thinkwiki if the type fits in. From 256MB on it works well, good is 512. The slow processor doesnt matter much if you have enough RAM. Since the harddisk is not very large, you may want to take a look to NetBSD (sorry FreeBSD-gurus). NetBSD is targeted at minimal or exotic computers, you can easily install the precompiled packages without a portstree. I use it for all my Thinkpads (Thinkpad 600, T23 and X31). Cheers herb langhans ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Hi i want to ask a question
Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD BR/BR/-BR/ a href=http://a.abv.bg/www/delivery/ck.php?oaparams=2__bannerid=130828__zoneid=63__oadest=http://www.sdi.bg/onlineInsurance/?utm_source=gbgutm_medium=txtLinkutm_content=home; target=_blankГражданска отговорност – Цените на компаниите/a ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
from Ivan Ivanov hel...@abv.bg: Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD I think it would be possible, but there would not be enough RAM or disk space to rebuild the system (make buildworld) or build the bigger applications from the ports collection. You might not have enough RAM to run (Mozilla) Firefox. There are some things you could do not involving the fancy stuff: server, maybe? You could try to find something for older computers on distrowatch.com, such as Puppy Linux. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
Hi, Reference: From: Thomas Mueller muelle...@insightbb.com Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 20:09:17 -0400 Message-id: 53.21.06836.dac26...@smtp02.insight.synacor.com Thomas Mueller wrote: from Ivan Ivanov hel...@abv.bg: Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD I think it would be possible, but there would not be enough RAM or disk space to rebuild the system (make buildworld) or build the bigger applications from the ports collection. You might not have enough RAM to run (Mozilla) Firefox. There are some things you could do not involving the fancy stuff: server, maybe? You could try to find something for older computers on distrowatch.com, such as Puppy Linux. Sorry, duff advice, don't need to send enquirer off to Linux IMO ;-) I guess Linux probably can't shrink smaller than BSD, (though that could be an endless thread, custom kernels striping binaries, older gcc being a Lot smaller etc) but Firefox Gcc will be approx same size on both if same version. maybe the enquirer doesnt need firefox anyway, eg the router passing this mail runs 6.4, with 40M ram doesn't need firefox, does run proxy http sendmail etc. Dont forget why Swap was invented. One doesnt Have to have tons of ram. Things might or not thrash depending on load etc. However ... 64M with X GUI sounds a stretch, but then equally for modern BSD Linux, Easier with older smaller versions of OS. (gcc thrashes building itself now on low memory machines) Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultants Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, cumulative like a play script, indent with . Format: Plain text. Not HTML, multipart/alternative, base64, quoted-printable. Mail from @yahoo dumped @berklix. http://berklix.org/yahoo/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Hi i want to ask a question
from Ivan Ivanov hel...@abv.bg: Hi i want to ask a question about the new release of FreeBSD (9) is it posible to run this release /whit GUI/ in IBM Thinkpad 1161 217 whit this specs 500 mhz Intel Celeron processor 64mb Ram and 5gb HDD I think it would be possible, but there would not be enough RAM or disk space to rebuild the system (make buildworld) or build the bigger applications from the ports collection. You might not have enough RAM to run (Mozilla) Firefox. There are some things you could do not involving the fancy stuff: server, maybe? You could try to find something for older computers on distrowatch.com, such as Puppy Linux. Julian Stacey responded: Sorry, duff advice, don't need to send enquirer off to Linux IMO ;-) I guess Linux probably can't shrink smaller than BSD, (though that could be an endless thread, custom kernels striping binaries, older gcc being a Lot smaller etc) but Firefox Gcc will be approx same size on both if same version. maybe the enquirer doesnt need firefox anyway, eg the router passing this mail runs 6.4, with 40M ram doesn't need firefox, does run proxy http sendmail etc. Dont forget why Swap was invented. One doesnt Have to have tons of ram. Things might or not thrash depending on load etc. However ... 64M with X GUI sounds a stretch, but then equally for modern BSD Linux, Easier with older smaller versions of OS. (gcc thrashes building itself now on low memory machines) Building big ports, including gcc, really can bog down on an old under-resourced computer, even with 256 MB RAM and 12 GB FreeBSD slice. I speak from experience with both Linux and FreeBSD, through 8.2 on old computer. NetBSD too (5.1_STABLE). On this old computer, GNOME 3 live CDs and USB failed to boot and get to GUI: didn't work at all. When I first responded on this thread, I didn't think of FreeDOS (www.freedos.org), but then you can't run anything close to Firefox on FreeDOS or any other DOS. But FreeDOS would run with a 5 GB hard drive all in one FAT32 partition. Work has been and is being done on FreeBSD to make it feasible to install application software via binary patches, that would come in useful on low-resource computers. With 64 MB RAM, I'd look to a window manager like IceWM, or maybe JWM or Ratpoison, but certainly not KDE. An old computer with insufficient RAM for fancy browsers and multimedia can still be useful for a server or router. Tom ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
