Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:28:44 -0500, Parv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED] thusly... I just want to know what the moderator thinks about this and the ethical conditions that are touched... There is no official moderator per se. I think whom you are looking for is nanny or philosopher ... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame12.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame17.html Also are these kinds of posts tolerated? Well, you are seeing them on this list, aren't you? This will go on until one side tires or looses interest, only to be revived some time later. As always. Just to shoehorn this thread back a bit in the direction whence it came: Looking at URL: http://www.distrowatch.com/, specifically the page hit rankings (on the right and down a little), at the moment the 5th-ranked Linux distro with an upward trend is Debian, whose install makes FreeBSD's look like an automated marvel in comparison. 6th-ranked, also with an upward trend, is Gentoo, whose install is also relatively non-automated and whose install instructions (the equivalent of the Handbook sections on installation) are often noted for their difficulty. 8th-ranked, again with an upward trend, is Slackware, whose text-based install is very similar to FreeBSD's, with perhaps a bit more help text available. Granted that the top 4 distros either have automagic installs (Mandrake, Fedora/Red Hat) or no install at all (Knoppix, the Debian-based live CD), it appears not to be true that popularity (at least the *nix world version) requires a graphical automated install, were that the goal of the FreeBSD project. Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mar 8, 2004, at 10:17 AM, JJB wrote: My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Please do not astroturf the FreeBSD mailing lists. By endorsing your own commercial site as if you had no connection with it, you are violating 15 U.S.C. 52, see http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/endorse: §255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product which might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience) such connection must be fully disclosed. [ ... ] -- -Chuck As a relatively newcomer to these lists, I was wondering who is correct in their ideas? The guy who introduced his nifty spider bot or the guy telling us all that the other guy is breaking a law. I don't like getting mixed up in flamewars or even minor skirmishes, I just want to know what the moderator thinks about this and the ethical conditions that are touched... Also are these kinds of posts tolerated? Don't worry. Soon they will get bored and go try to dig in some other sandbox, or else their mommies will tell them it is time to come in for lunch. Then things will quiet down again and people can get some usefule work done again. jerry Rommel ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Parv wrote: in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote Mark Frank thusly... [ ... ] It seems the Message-ID pattern has not changed. Oops, did i say that out loud? Yes. :-) Well, this mailing list could use a little comedy now and again-- while I cannot say that amusing other people is a goal of mine, still, we all try to do our part. -- -Chuck PS: To Rommel aka [EMAIL PROTECTED]: if you've ever dealt with lawyers or that ilk, you'll rapidly encounter what are popularly called nastygrams, which imply that horribly bad things will happen unless the receipient stops doing things you (meaning the laywer's client) don't want them to do. Nastygrams are typically sent via certified mail and look really impressive, but they generally don't mean much, unless they come from a judge. The primary purpose is to cause the receipient to have to spend lots of time and resources arguing whatever the issue may be (hopefully more than the sender does), until one side gives up. So much for justice, hmm? True, once in a while, under airtight circumstances and in an ideal black-and-white world, you'll win summary judgement...otherwise, no matter who is wrong or right, expect to waste a great deal of time (and sometimes money). [ IANAL, TINLA. ] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
What would actually be quite nice is to have a fancy GUI install in addition to the current one. Then at the beginning of the install you can decide whether you really want to install FreeBSD or look at the pretty lights in the fancy GUI version. Option 1 is choose the current way, option 2 is go the GUI method. This gives people the flexible old fashioned way to install while at the same time getting people through the install who may be less experienced buy using the GUI version. I think in general though, most people who install FreeBSD are capable enough that they know what they are doing once you read the docs and follow the onscreen instructions. Corey Jud wrote: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:28:44 -0500, Parv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED] thusly... I just want to know what the moderator thinks about this and the ethical conditions that are touched... There is no official moderator per se. I think whom you are looking for is nanny or philosopher ... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame12.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame17.html Also are these kinds of posts tolerated? Well, you are seeing them on this list, aren't you? This will go on until one side tires or looses interest, only to be revived some time later. As always. Just to shoehorn this thread back a bit in the direction whence it came: Looking at URL: http://www.distrowatch.com/, specifically the page hit rankings (on the right and down a little), at the moment the 5th-ranked Linux distro with an upward trend is Debian, whose install makes FreeBSD's look like an automated marvel in comparison. 6th-ranked, also with an upward trend, is Gentoo, whose install is also relatively non-automated and whose install instructions (the equivalent of the Handbook sections on installation) are often noted for their difficulty. 8th-ranked, again with an upward trend, is Slackware, whose text-based install is very similar to FreeBSD's, with perhaps a bit more help text available. Granted that the top 4 distros either have automagic installs (Mandrake, Fedora/Red Hat) or no install at all (Knoppix, the Debian-based live CD), it appears not to be true that popularity (at least the *nix world version) requires a graphical automated install, were that the goal of the FreeBSD project. Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Corey Mosher writes: What would actually be quite nice is to have a fancy GUI install in addition to the current one. Then at the beginning of the install you can decide whether you really want to install FreeBSD or look at the pretty lights in the fancy GUI version. Option 1 is choose the current way, option 2 is go the GUI method. This gives people the flexible old fashioned way to install while at the same time getting people through the install who may be less experienced buy using the GUI version. There's an additional variable here, that I haven't seen anybody mention. It is desirable to have a uniform installation process, no matter what the media. This means the hard-working folks in Release Engineering only have to wrangle one set of code. It is also desirable to have a small installation process, so deisrable I think this is a matter of official policy. (Can anyone confirm or deny this?) As of ... somewhere late in 3.x or early in 4.x, I think ... one could run the entire essential install off one 3.5 floppy. Then it was two. Now it's three, if you need some not-so-uncommon drivers. Will the sky fall if we go to four? No. But cost of each additional disk goes up. I don't assume everyone has a 52x CDROM, any more than I assume thay have a 3mbps cable connection. (I'm neither for or against a GUI installer. I just want to be sure we're all playing with the same deck.) Robert Huff ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 11:28:03PM -0500, JJB wrote: Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. Or, alternatively, we could just put a URL to the documentation... -lewiz. -- I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. --Bob Dylan, 1964. -| msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | url:www.lewiz.org |- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:06:38 -0600, Vulpes Velox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:28:03 -0500 JJB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. ...which is why I always tell friends who ask about installing FreeBSD to print the relevant Handbook sections (and read them, and ask questions about what they've read) in advance so the information will be sitting there in front of them. Jud ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Fwd: Re: Installation - More user friendly]
Hello everybody. Ive been reading all comments onthis subject and just wanted to add my opinion. A couple of months ago i was only using windows. Only for downloading stuff and listen to music. My windows skills extended only to install windows and applications, I never messed with regedit or whatever its called. So I have a very limited os experience/skills. However I got sick of microsoft and wanted to try something else and I stumbled on FreeBSD. Without much reading of the handbook I found it quite simple to install. Even configuring X was no problem. My biggest problem was that I didnt know my hardware, monitor specs and so on. I did the installation a couple of times to practice and I havent had any big problems at all with sysinstall. After that I tried to install Debian Linux and found it more difficult. It was after installing FreeBSD my problems started, to configure things. Now I need to spend a lot of time, that I dont have (according to my girlfriend), reading the handbook (which I sometimes find confusing) and searching other sites for information. Also choosing apps is complicated, which to choose?!. So my conclusion is that installation is no problem, the handbook told me everything I needed to know. If somebody wants an OS and at the sametime learn it thoroghly FreeBSD is perfect but it will take some reading. I want to learn. If I wanted to be up and going quickly and only klicking my way through, I would stick to XP. I have also tried Mandrake, it is easy to install but one must still read and learn if you only know windows. So I go for FreeBSD to learn thoroughly (not popular with my girlfriend). I hope I havent insulted anyone or anything (except micro.). Kind regards Nicolas ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 11:28:03PM -0500, JJB wrote: Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. Or, alternatively, we could just put a URL to the documentation... That works if it can read locally, can sysinstall handle html? If it must go out to the net, can it do that?Probably not at that stage. Many of us can not afford to have an extra machine around to read online documentation while doing an install. The install is on the only machine we have. Of course, I know some of you are flush with extra HW just setting around just waiting to do some browsing, but I for one, find food and even housing to be important expenses that need to be covered. jerry -lewiz. --=20 I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. --Bob Dylan, 1964. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. This is a good idea. Go ahead and submit an update for it. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Ehhh.Maybe as only one last option. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. I think all documentation should include more 'why' and 'why not' discussion.So, sure. Go ahead and write it all up and submit the update.Try to be systematic in your writing style though and make sure it does not reflect personal prejudices about particular software and styles of system use, etc. The below paragraph is a start, but is a little ragged and would need some work before including it in an update submission, for example. jerry Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly On Sunday 07 March 2004 02:49 pm, Donald Turnbull Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? It seems pretty friendly to me. It really helps to read the directions first, though. By user friendly do you mean pretty, or do you have a specific complaint about some aspect that needs to be improved? Which SPECIFIC part of the install should be changed, and how should it be changed? - Bob ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of W. D. Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 11:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Installation - More user friendly At 22:28 3/7/2004, JJB, wrote: Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. Man! This would be great! I am trying to convert from the evil Windows world, and online comments like this would be great. If we really want to make FreeBSD more popular, we should make it easy for people to change from Windows and/or Linux, right? Start Here to Find It Fast!(tm) - http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
* On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:17:00AM -0500 JJB wrote: WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Hey JJB, fbsd_user, Barbish or whoever you are this week, You had to use a web spider to find your OWN (pay for use written using MS FrontPage) web site? $ whois a1poweruser.com [snip] Technical Contact: BARBISH JOSEPH BARBISH ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) +1.14407294115 Fax: +1.NONE 8732 CAMELOT DRIVECHESTERLAND, OH 44026 US -- Mark Frank Director of Technical Services - eDoxs Corp. Please send all service requests/issues to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
Need more info about what you mean by write it up and submit it. Who or where do I submit it? By write it up you mean, write the short text for each sysinstall option. How about reorganizing the sysinstall process. Like moving all the non critical install options from the main process stream to the post install category? I looked in the /stand directory and it contains binaries. Where is the source for the sysinstall process, maybe I can just change it at it's source? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull; Bob Johnson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. This is a good idea. Go ahead and submit an update for it. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Ehhh.Maybe as only one last option. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. I think all documentation should include more 'why' and 'why not' discussion.So, sure. Go ahead and write it all up and submit the update.Try to be systematic in your writing style though and make sure it does not reflect personal prejudices about particular software and styles of system use, etc. The below paragraph is a start, but is a little ragged and would need some work before including it in an update submission, for example. jerry Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly On Sunday 07 March 2004 02:49 pm, Donald Turnbull Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? It seems pretty friendly to me. It really helps to read the directions first, though. By user friendly do you mean pretty, or do you have a specific complaint about some aspect that needs to be improved? Which SPECIFIC part of the install should be changed, and how should it be changed? - Bob ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
JJB wrote: WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. 1) Surreptitiously plugging your own site, is crass, at best. 2) Not telling him you charge for everything there, is devious. Perhaps you should also tell him that when you respond to posts for help, on this list, that you frequently ignore the person's questions and instead rant on about the evils of whatever it is they are trying to do/use. Perhaps you should tell him that, at least in the area of networking, you haven't got a clue about what you are talking about (I specifically refer you to the completely inaccurate information you gave me regarding, for instance, the generation of fragments.) Based on the many posts of yours that I've seen, on this list and another, I've concluded that you do know some things and have some usefull information to impart, but that your ranting and mis-information obscure them to such a degree that you're comments are not worth paying much attention too. -ste ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
Thanks Mark Frank for pointing that out. Yes I have just put my web site online to sell my FreeBSD Stable 4.9 Release Install guide. An Up to date, Step by Step, How-To, Instructional Guide to Installing FreeBSD from scratch, Specifically written with background information covering the why and how the different components are used together to create an home or small enterprise network for the new-be and inexperienced FreeBSD computer hobbyist. Not an General reference type of document, but an true learning aid containing details unique to the stable version of FreeBSD your installing. After 30 months of answering the same questions over and over again on this questions list, It became apparent that some thing must be wrong with the current documentation that so many people are having problems with it. No matter how many times I read posts from stanch supports of the sysinstall process and the current documentation, their posts can not dispute the statistical facts so apparent in this questions list. Every thing is reference material for the experienced user and not written to the knowledge level appropriate to the first time installer. So I addressed that problem. It may not be appropriate for you, but there are many who it is appropriate for. Those who are interested can check it out at www.a1poweruser.com -Original Message- From: Mark Frank [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:45 AM To: JJB; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly * On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:17:00AM -0500 JJB wrote: WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Hey JJB, fbsd_user, Barbish or whoever you are this week, You had to use a web spider to find your OWN (pay for use written using MS FrontPage) web site? $ whois a1poweruser.com [snip] Technical Contact: BARBISH JOSEPH BARBISH ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) +1.14407294115 Fax: +1.NONE 8732 CAMELOT DRIVECHESTERLAND, OH 44026 US -- Mark Frank Director of Technical Services - eDoxs Corp. Please send all service requests/issues to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Need more info about what you mean by write it up and submit it. Who or where do I submit it? By write it up you mean, write the short text for each sysinstall option. Since FreeBSD is completely a volunteer project, everyone can contribute. Make the changes necessary and submit them as updates. There is information on the FreeBSD web page about contributing to the project. Check out: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/contributing/index.html Don't feel limited by the what is needed list. But, be prepared to find people who disagre, often with good cause, with suggested changes. How about reorganizing the sysinstall process. Like moving all the non critical install options from the main process stream to the post install category? I looked in the /stand directory and it contains binaries. Where is the source for the sysinstall process, maybe I can just change it at it's source? I haven't looked specifically for /stand/sysinstall , but pretty much everything is somewhere under /usr/src - of course, you will have had to opt to install source for it to be there. NOTE, It is not quite as simple as one program. The installation program uses major chunks of the OS. But, the messages it uses mostly come from just a few places. jerry McAllister Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull; Bob Johnson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. This is a good idea. Go ahead and submit an update for it. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Ehhh.Maybe as only one last option. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. I think all documentation should include more 'why' and 'why not' discussion.So, sure. Go ahead and write it all up and submit the update.Try to be systematic in your writing style though and make sure it does not reflect personal prejudices about particular software and styles of system use, etc. The below paragraph is a start, but is a little ragged and would need some work before including it in an update submission, for example. jerry Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly On Sunday 07 March 2004 02:49 pm, Donald Turnbull Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? It seems pretty friendly to me. It really helps to read the directions first, though. By user friendly do you mean pretty, or do you have a specific complaint about some aspect that needs to be improved? Which SPECIFIC part of the install should be changed, and how should it be changed? - Bob
RE: Installation - More user friendly
There's no need to be so down right rude. I could say the same thing about you. So keep your un-professional comments to your self. There is no place on an open list for such behavior. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Shaun T. Erickson Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: W. D.; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly JJB wrote: WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. 1) Surreptitiously plugging your own site, is crass, at best. 2) Not telling him you charge for everything there, is devious. Perhaps you should also tell him that when you respond to posts for help, on this list, that you frequently ignore the person's questions and instead rant on about the evils of whatever it is they are trying to do/use. Perhaps you should tell him that, at least in the area of networking, you haven't got a clue about what you are talking about (I specifically refer you to the completely inaccurate information you gave me regarding, for instance, the generation of fragments.) Based on the many posts of yours that I've seen, on this list and another, I've concluded that you do know some things and have some usefull information to impart, but that your ranting and mis-information obscure them to such a degree that you're comments are not worth paying much attention too. -ste ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Shaun T. Erickson wrote: JJB wrote: WD My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. 1) Surreptitiously plugging your own site, is crass, at best. 2) Not telling him you charge for everything there, is devious. Yet another 2c' worth... If anyone writes any documentation for FreeBSD, an operating system they got for free and learned about for free, partly through reading free documentation submitted by others, I'd personally admire their efforts more if it was submitted to the handbook. Luckily for us all, some people have taken this view already. The reason FreeBSD does not have graphical tools and wizards for the installation (or anything else, really) is that nobody who could has felt inclined to write the code for them. That's for some pretty obvious reasons. For example, no functional advantage would be gained from hundreds of hours of work. A bigger user base comprising more unskilled users would not work, even with smart graphical tools, without some kind of support infrastructure. Where's that going to come from? A lot of people are sick of wrestling with systems that have gui tools that either don't work properly or don't work at all (though this has improved in recent years), and don't let you beneath them so you can fix the problem directly. But there's nothing stopping anyone using the existing code and writing some snazzy tools, then selling it as a commercial distribution. It's almost worth typing that again for emphasis. A commercial distro would be the channel through which support infrastructures could be developed. The various Linux distros illustrate this. Red Hat, Mandrake and others charge money and provide graphical installs. Debian, probably the Linux distro closest to FreeBSD in orientation, does neither. Hardware compatibility aside, it's arguable that the answer to this is that if you want a graphical, simple to use version of FreeBSD, then buy Apple OS X. PWR. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mar 8, 2004, at 10:17 AM, JJB wrote: My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Please do not astroturf the FreeBSD mailing lists. By endorsing your own commercial site as if you had no connection with it, you are violating 15 U.S.C. 52, see http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/endorse: §255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product which might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience) such connection must be fully disclosed. [ ... ] -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
Now just where does what you quote say anybody is endorsing anything. It's just an pointer to something that may meet the needs of the poster. Just like what happens hundreds of times every day in this list. Please drop your un-professional attack and take it offline, it does not belong here. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Charles Swiger Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Free BSD Questions list' Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly On Mar 8, 2004, at 10:17 AM, JJB wrote: My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Please do not astroturf the FreeBSD mailing lists. By endorsing your own commercial site as if you had no connection with it, you are violating 15 U.S.C. 52, see http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/endorse: §255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product which might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience) such connection must be fully disclosed. [ ... ] -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Monday 08 March 2004 12:26 pm, JJB wrote: Now just where does what you quote say anybody is endorsing anything. It's just an pointer to something that may meet the needs of the poster. Just like what happens hundreds of times every day in this list. Please drop your un-professional attack and take it offline, it does not belong here. What I find amusing about this, is there is a Copywrite on this?!?! I have been under the impression (as I checked into this a number of years back) You can't Copywrite public domain material. I also don't see any credits listed pertaining to the name FreeBSD, it's handbook or anything relating to BSD, it's images, and most importantly - posting the written permission to use Beastie (and I might add, I think it must be done in a not-for-profit mannor) from Kirk McKusick [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just my .02 -- Best regards, Chris ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mar 8, 2004, at 1:26 PM, JJB wrote: Now just where does what you quote say anybody is endorsing anything. It's just an pointer to something that may meet the needs of the poster. Just like what happens hundreds of times every day in this list. You've been advised of the law; if don't think the FTC has jurisdiction over such comments, go ask your laywer or the people from a company named Central Command, based in Ohio, who tried astroturfing comp.mail.sendmail about a product of theirs called Vexira MailArmor. Please drop your un-professional attack and take it offline, it does not belong here. What are you talking about? Please do not astroturf the FreeBSD mailing lists constitutes a polite request in response to deceptive behavior on your part. It is not an attack, professional or otherwise. -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 09:53:15AM -0500, Jerry McAllister wrote: On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 11:28:03PM -0500, JJB wrote: Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. Or, alternatively, we could just put a URL to the documentation... That works if it can read locally, can sysinstall handle html? If it must go out to the net, can it do that?Probably not at that stage. Many of us can not afford to have an extra machine around to read online documentation while doing an install. The install is on the only machine we have. I was making the point that few people read the documentation /before/ they pop the CD in the drive. If a lot of people (I'm not saying this is you, at all) bothered to do this it really would save them a lot of hassle. As for PnP, IRQ assignments, etc. -- these would /all/ be sorted /before/ the disc was booted from. Your idea is quite nice though -- the Handbook could easily be converted to plaintext and fired up on a virtual terminal. -lewiz. -- I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now. --Bob Dylan, 1964. -| msn:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | url:www.lewiz.org |- pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: Installation - More user friendly
SNIP Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? /SNIP Before the flames start, let me state that I am a HUGE FreeBSD fan. I use it at home. I use it at work. We are migrating away from RedHat (since it's no longer open source) to FreeBSD. I also own a Mac with OS X. I think that the point here is to coax the average Windows user, who has an innate fear of the command line, to use FreeBSD. The problem is that we can discuss this as a technical issue until Satan hands out snow shoes, but it won't change the fact that this is a HUMAN issue. While I agree that an OS without a GUI is by far TECHNICALLY superior, it is NOT the superior in the minds of most end users. It's a terror inducing, awe-striking behemoth. Most non-technical people like GUI's because they neither want to know nor should they need to know the gazillion command line entries and options. That's the kind of thing that makes us the pros at what we do. PC's didn't become popular for home use until the advent of the GUI. Apple, despite many technical decisions that I can't agree with, are still with us because of the wonderful user interface. Windows, all bashing aside, is not the most desirable operating system for a variety of TECHNICAL reasons, but it still maintains it market share. Why? Because it offers two things 1) the comfort factor that comes with familiarity and 2) the wizards to accomplish fairly complex tasks by making selections in a GUI. This alone should point out that the user interface is NOT a technical issue. I think that the ultimate flaw in much of the logic I see here is in assuming that we, being the programmers, system administrators, hackers, etc., that we all are on list, know what end users want. We soo are NOT the average end user. I think I can safely say that we left being end users ourselves behind so long ago that we've forgotten what it's like. Think about what your Mother (or at least mine :)) would want to use. Actually having to go to the command line, when you've been trained by decades of M$ products that this a very bad thing to do, and type stuff in terrifies her. She's always certain that she's going to make a mistake and blow things up. 2 cents, Jimi ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote Mark Frank thusly... * On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 10:17:00AM -0500 JJB wrote: My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Hey JJB, fbsd_user, Barbish or whoever you are this week, It seems the Message-ID pattern has not changed. Oops, did i say that out loud? - Parv -- ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Mar 8, 2004, at 10:17 AM, JJB wrote: My web spider robot found this web site which is not on any of the search engines yet. www.a1poweruser.com Looks like it offers what you want in the way of user-friendly step-by-step instructions to installing FBSD. Please do not astroturf the FreeBSD mailing lists. By endorsing your own commercial site as if you had no connection with it, you are violating 15 U.S.C. 52, see http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/endorse: §255.5 Disclosure of material connections. When there exists a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product which might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement (i.e., the connection is not reasonably expected by the audience) such connection must be fully disclosed. [ ... ] -- -Chuck As a relatively newcomer to these lists, I was wondering who is correct in their ideas? The guy who introduced his nifty spider bot or the guy telling us all that the other guy is breaking a law. I don't like getting mixed up in flamewars or even minor skirmishes, I just want to know what the moderator thinks about this and the ethical conditions that are touched... Also are these kinds of posts tolerated? Rommel ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
in message [EMAIL PROTECTED], wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED] thusly... I just want to know what the moderator thinks about this and the ethical conditions that are touched... There is no official moderator per se. I think whom you are looking for is nanny or philosopher ... http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame12.html http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame17.html Also are these kinds of posts tolerated? Well, you are seeing them on this list, aren't you? This will go on until one side tires or looses interest, only to be revived some time later. As always. - Parv -- ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Installation - More user friendly
Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Installation - More user friendly
Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 11:49:14AM -0800, Donald Turnbull wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? Oooh. That's a can of worms you're opening there. Careful lest it blows up in your face. Plans exist aplenty. Talk is cheap. See, for instance the libh project stuff -- http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html -- which was a nice idea in many ways but has entirely failed to produce any results for about the last two years. What is missing are concrete pieces of code: applications that work. If you think you can do better than what we have presently, you are very welcome to submit samples of works in progress. On the other hand, your contention that FreeBSD installation is user-unfriendly particularly for the nieve user, is not entirely born out in practice. Most people take a few minutes to get used to the way it works, and then find that they can navigate around the menus and get things done very effectively. You'll also have a great deal of difficulty persuading experienced users that they need a glitzy X based installer which won't work over a serial line connection, and that doesn't permit the same flexibility as the current sysinstall(8). Style palls very quickly unless it is backed up by substance, but substance makes up for any amount of lack of style. Anyway, this is a topic more suitable for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to set appropriately. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installation - More user friendly
Well, basicly, most people I know don't like the graphical installations like Red Hat and Mandrake. When I worked with Mandrake some time ago I never chosed the graphical installation either ... And as far as I know, FreeBSD isn't aiming as much to user friendly-enviroments as Mandrake is. FreeBSD is an operating system you need to take your time for, and you need to read the proper documentation. FreeBSD is user friendly enough when you know how it works (take the ports-tree for example), but it requires that the user is willing to invest time in the Operating System. Cheers, Jorn. On 3/7/2004, Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
The you know how it works stuff has a very good resource online
www.freebsd.org/handbook
It teaches you from the basics through rather advanced stuff.
Like every OS you need to learn it, FreeBSD is robust and userfriendly
but not with the installation as you want it.. It requires you to
educate yourself a little bit.. {dont feel offended, don't mean it like
that}
cheers :)
--
Kind regards,
Remko Lodder
Elvandar.org/DSINet.org
www.mostly-harmless.nl Dutch community for helping newcomers on the
hackerscene
mrtg.grunn.org Dutch mirror of MRTG
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jorn Argelo
Verzonden: zondag 7 maart 2004 22:02
Aan: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Onderwerp: Re: Installation - More user friendly
Well, basicly, most people I know don't like the graphical installations
like Red Hat and Mandrake. When I worked with Mandrake some time ago I
never chosed the graphical installation either ...
And as far as I know, FreeBSD isn't aiming as much to user
friendly-enviroments as Mandrake is. FreeBSD is an operating system you
need to take your time for, and you need to read the proper
documentation. FreeBSD is user friendly enough when you know how it
works (take the ports-tree for example), but it requires that the user
is willing to invest time in the Operating System.
Cheers,
Jorn.
On 3/7/2004, Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user
friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat
or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people
lives easier right?
-
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster.
___
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Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sunday 07 March 2004 02:49 pm, Donald Turnbull Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? It seems pretty friendly to me. It really helps to read the directions first, though. By user friendly do you mean pretty, or do you have a specific complaint about some aspect that needs to be improved? Which SPECIFIC part of the install should be changed, and how should it be changed? - Bob ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bob Johnson Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 8:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Donald Turnbull Subject: Re: Installation - More user friendly On Sunday 07 March 2004 02:49 pm, Donald Turnbull Donald Turnbull [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the folks of FreeBSD has any plans to make installation more user friendly for the newbie or the non-tech minded user for example like Red Hat or Mandrake Linux installation? The point for technology is to make people lives easier right? It seems pretty friendly to me. It really helps to read the directions first, though. By user friendly do you mean pretty, or do you have a specific complaint about some aspect that needs to be improved? Which SPECIFIC part of the install should be changed, and how should it be changed? - Bob ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation - More user friendly
At 22:28 3/7/2004, JJB, wrote: Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. That is what I see is missing from the sysinstall process and why it is so user unfriendly to all but experienced FBSD users. Man! This would be great! I am trying to convert from the evil Windows world, and online comments like this would be great. If we really want to make FreeBSD more popular, we should make it easy for people to change from Windows and/or Linux, right? Start Here to Find It Fast! - http://www.US-Webmasters.com/best-start-page/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation - More user friendly
On Sun, 7 Mar 2004 23:28:03 -0500 JJB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well I do have specific comments about some aspects that needs to be improved? Right at the beginning of sysinstall should be warning about what to set PC bios options to, like plugNplay off, power management off, boot time virus check disabled, PCI irq assignments set to auto, OS type set to non-windows, ect. Give then option to cancel sysinstall to set bios. 5.2.1 all ready askes about ACPI... not sure about previous ones... Don't see what about the current system prevents them from rebooting and checking the bios... That should be followed with option for standard basic install using whole hard drive from cdrom, and no questions from that point on. Behinds the scenes, fdisk deletes all hard drive partitions, disklable uses auto config, skip config is taken, distro of kernel source, no x-server, and no to all other questions, except set root password and timezone. Then for the original way, for each option question, give info about what this option enables and why one would enable it. Example enable NFS server (yes / NO) NFS stands for (Network File server) An advanced function where by this system you are installing will have an (Local Area Network) behind it and you want this system to share It's disk space with the other FBSD PC's on the lan. Answering yes will start the NFS server on this system and all the FBSD pc on the Lan must have the NFS client running to access and share the NFS servers disk space. Will not work with MS/windows PC on the Lan. Can be enabled later by rc.conf statements. Only answer yes if you know for certain you are going to use this function in the immediate future. This could get annoying... probally be easier just to have a button that could be hit to bring up help... This kind of pointed detailed information embedded into each question installer is asked to respond to, provides the installer with the info necessary to make an informed chose right there in front of them where it belongs and not off in some un-accessible handbook. See above... regardless, reading it should be done... and new users should all ways be pointed towards it and/or some unix tutorials... ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
