RE: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-03-03 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt

APC is doing that because they want you to pay them more money
for upgrades.  Don't feel singled out.  APC is the only company
I know that can sell 2 identical products, one painted white
(the SmartUPS 700) and one painted black (The SmartUPS 700) and
get $800 for the white one and $250 for the black one, and
have both of them right next to each other on the APC website.

Ted

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of manish jain
>Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 11:16 AM
>To: Donald J. O'Neill; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
>Subject: Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD
>
>
>
>Hi Don,
>
>  Thanks for the reply. But yes, APC is selling in India the
>models it can't sell anywhere else. My 500 VA Back UPS
>(purchased new last month) does not have any cuaa/usb
>interface. It's not just APC alone, there's a whole lot of
>companies that throw their junk in here in this country.
>Thankfully FreeBSD is not one of them.
>
>  Regards
>  Manish Jain
>
>"Donald J. O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
>> manish jain wrote:
>> > I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the
>> > pro/smart one).
>> > It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or any
>> > other daemon to work with it so that the system automatically shuts
>> > down before backup supply runs out ?
>>
>> No. If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
>> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
>
>As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website, they
>all have a UPS port. Go from there.
>
>Don
>
>
>
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-03-01 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
Hi Mannish,

I guess all you have to do is look at the first four letters in FreeBSD. 
One of the many reasons why I love this operating system, and it just 
keeps getting better, even I'm not.

Don



On Wednesday 01 March 2006 13:15, manish jain wrote:
> Hi Don,
>
>   Thanks for the reply. But yes, APC is selling in India the models
> it can't sell anywhere else. My 500 VA Back UPS (purchased new last
> month) does not have any cuaa/usb interface. It's not just APC alone,
> there's a whole lot of companies that throw their junk in here in
> this country. Thankfully FreeBSD is not one of them.
>
>   Regards
>   Manish Jain
>
> "Donald J. O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>   On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> > manish jain wrote:
> > > I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the
> > > pro/smart one).
> > > It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or
> > > any other daemon to work with it so that the system automatically
> > > shuts down before backup supply runs out ?
> >
> > No. If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> > serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
>
> As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website,
> they all have a UPS port. Go from there.
>
> Don
>
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-03-01 Thread manish jain

Hi Don,
   
  Thanks for the reply. But yes, APC is selling in India the models it can't 
sell anywhere else. My 500 VA Back UPS (purchased new last month) does not have 
any cuaa/usb interface. It's not just APC alone, there's a whole lot of 
companies that throw their junk in here in this country. Thankfully FreeBSD is 
not one of them.
   
  Regards
  Manish Jain
  
"Donald J. O'Neill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> manish jain wrote:
> > I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the
> > pro/smart one).
> > It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or any
> > other daemon to work with it so that the system automatically shuts
> > down before backup supply runs out ?
>
> No. If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.

As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website, they 
all have a UPS port. Go from there.

Don



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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-22 Thread David Kelly
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 03:07:21AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> 
> Fortunately, the used market is awash in UPSes that have burned out
> batteries.  Just find the local supplier of lead-acid gell cells and
> make friends with him and your in like flyn.  Any large city has at
> least 1 of them.

When buying a new ~$25 battery for an APS 650 I saw a pile of CS350's at
the battery store. Owner offered me as many as I wanted for only the
cost of a new $18 battery. So I now have a UPS on my satellite dish PVR.

-- 
David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-22 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
On Wednesday 22 February 2006 05:07, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> >-Original Message-
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Donald J.
> >O'Neill
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:47 AM
> >To: Chuck Swiger
> >Cc: manish jain; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
> >Subject: Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD
> >
> >
> >
> >Then, thats got to be a really old, old one. I've been working
> > (playing with actually) with computers since the color computer. I
> > won't admit to anything further back than that. I've never seen one
> > that didn't have some means of communication (monitoring). Not from
> > APC anyway.
>
> APC has made a lot of older BackUPSs that didn't have the com port
> that date back to the Color Computer days, you just wern't paying
> attention.  For example the BackUPS 200VA (that unit was discontinued
> years ago) didn't have one, neither did the BackUPS 250 and 300 VA
> units from that era.  (all of those are discontinued)  However the
> models that didn't have the com port back in the olden days, were all
> very low, low VA units, under 350VA.
>
> It wasn't until modern times that APC decided to screw it all up.
>
> Ted

Bill Gates had come out with: you can't do multi-user, multitasking with 
an 8 bit micro-processor. Here was this inexpensive computer from Radio 
Shack, already on the market, that would if you used OS9, also 
available from Radio Shack. About that time, I decided that Bill Gates 
aught to pay more attention to what was going on.

At that time, my concern with, and about, power backup units was 
somewhere between none and none. I did know what one was, what it did, 
and why it was desirable to have one. I just didn't really have a need 
for one for a long time. After all, if you shutoff the PC, who cared if 
the power went down - as long as you shut down before that happened.

As to your last statement, I'm wondering if you were saying, in a 
different way: they took a nice, simple piece of equipment, that did 
its job well, and added capabilities to it, that in order to utilize 
them, required more capabilities added to the units they were supplying 
power backup to. Ah, I see by your later post to the list & OP, given 
more in depth and with good advice, that's what you meant. 

Don
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RE: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-22 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Donald J.
>O'Neill
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:47 AM
>To: Chuck Swiger
>Cc: manish jain; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
>Subject: Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD
>
>
>
>Then, thats got to be a really old, old one. I've been working (playing
>with actually) with computers since the color computer. I won't admit
>to anything further back than that. I've never seen one that didn't
>have some means of communication (monitoring). Not from APC anyway.
>

APC has made a lot of older BackUPSs that didn't have the com port
that date back to the Color Computer days, you just wern't paying
attention.  For example the BackUPS 200VA (that unit was discontinued
years ago) didn't have one, neither did the BackUPS 250 and 300 VA
units from that era.  (all of those are discontinued)  However the
models that didn't have the com port back in the olden days, were all
very low, low VA units, under 350VA.

It wasn't until modern times that APC decided to screw it all up.

Ted

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RE: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-22 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt

Years ago the APC BackUPSs did come with a serial port.  APC sold the
BackUPS and the SmartUPS.  Both had serial ports, both could be used
to shut down the system.  The difference was you could query the Smart
UPS to findout how much life was left in the battery.

Then 2 things happened, first APC realized
that a lot of consumers out there didn't know or care that their
UPS had a serial port that could shut down the computer, and second
sales of BackUPS were cannibalizing sales of SmartUPS.  So
APC renamed the normal BackUPS with the serial port into the BackUPS Pro,
and came out with a consumer el-cheapo line of throwaway UPS's they
named the BackUPS.

It is no wonder your confused because most documentation on the Internet
for UPSes talks
about backups, but what they are meaning is
pre-apc-getting-greedy-backups
upses, not post-apc-getting-greedy-backupses-that-are-named-the-same
-as-their-predicessors.

Fortunately, the used market is awash in UPSes that have burned out
batteries.  Just find the local supplier of lead-acid gell cells and
make friends with him and your in like flyn.  Any large city has at least
1 of them.

Quite a large number of businesses out there find that it is cheaper to
toss an old 600VA ups and buy a new one when the battery dies, rather
than
pay some tech for an hours worth of time to pull the old battery and
replace it, then test the UPS to make sure it's still working.  Also,
a lot of techs misdiagnose UPS battery failures and don't know how to
test them anyway.  I've found old APC UPSes for sale very cheap and
very few of them have failed.  Testing is very easy.  Just plug the new
batteries in, and before plugging the UPS into the wall, clip a voltmeter
on the battery terminals.  If you get any voltage rise at all, even a
half a volt, when the UPS is plugged in, the charging circuit is OK.
Then plug a computer into the UPS, turn it on, and unplug the UPS from
the wall and if the inverter goes on, then the inverter is working and
the UPS is perfectly OK.  This test does not work with old batteries
because old batteries often fail in unusual ways.  And the new batteries
should not be at 100% of charge, which they won't be if they have
been on the shelf for a month or so.

Ted

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of manish jain
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 6:09 AM
>To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
>Subject: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD
>
>
>Hi,
>
>  I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not
>the pro/smart one). It does not have any serial/usb interface.
>Can I get apcupsd or any other daemon to work with it so that
>the system automatically shuts down before backup supply runs out ?
>
>  If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be
>grateful.
>
>  Thanks
>  Manish Jain
>
>
>
>-
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Paul Mather
Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Donald J. O'Neill wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> [ ... ]
> >> No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> >> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
> > 
> > As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website,
> they 
> > all have a UPS port. Go from there.
> 
> All of the new Smart-UPS APC models that they are selling now have USB
> ports.
> 
> There are plenty of older models around in the channel, and there is
> the entire
> Back-UPS model line that are not "smart", and thus have no
> monitoring/shutdown
> capabilities.  See the Subject: header...

For my home, I bought a Back-UPS Pro 1100 that was inexpensive.  It came
with a 940-0020C serial cable.  Unfortunately, this only supports simple
signalling, so you can't monitor the UPS for its vital statistics
regarding percentage battery life left, etc.  I guess that's why it was
inexpensive.  But, it does work with apcupsd, and you do get
notification of power loss and even a critical power low warning signal
you can use to trigger shutdown of your machines.  It has worked well
for me.

I don't know if your statement about the "entire Back-UPS model line"
also encompassed the Back-UPS Pro models.  I just wanted to say there
was at least one Back-UPS Pro UPS that did support monitoring/shutdown
capabilities, albeit the restricted simple signalling type.

I agree that if the OPs UPS doesn't have any type of data connection to
a host computer then it won't be possible to get it to interface with
apcupsd.  However, I haven't heard of an APC UPS that didn't come with
some kind of data cable, so it would be useful if the OP posted the
precise model: there are several in the Back-UPS 500 line, such as the
Back-UPS 500; Back-UPS CS 500; Back-UPS ES 500; etc.  All of them
support either a serial or USB cable.  (The CS supports both.)

Cheers,

Paul.
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread David Kelly
On Tue, Feb 21, 2006 at 10:35:40AM -0600, Donald J. O'Neill wrote:
>
> I think in this case, he was referring to extra sensory perception. But, 
> since this is evidently a model that just sits there and supplies 
> backup power until the battery is too depleted to AC power to the 
> computer at an acceptable level, and at that point the computer shuts 
> off. I would say this model is not capable of esp.

I'd say the original assessment was correct in that ESP was the *only*
possible way to read the status of a UPS which doesn't have an external
monitoring interface.  :-)

The very very old units often had simple status lines which could be
monitored with special software thru a parallel printer port.

If the UPS has a warning buzzer he could put a microphone on a sound
card and listen for the buzzer. The buzzes often come faster just before
the UPS breathes its last breath. If one does such a thing we've already
got a name for it, ESP.

-- 
David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 11:46, Ian Lord wrote:

>
> Lol in my own opinion, if the user that asked the question can't
> figure out there is a usb/serial port on the unit (I took the
> assumption as true :) I can hardly see how he would manage to compile
> and configure apcupsd :)
>
What can I say. There are people like that. You read what they say and 
feel there's something wrong, something doesn't ring true. They haven't 
done something, they don't know about something, etc. I think it can be 
said: "I know enough from what you've said to be dangerous." I think I 
should say instead: "Sure I can help you, but if you didn't know enough 
to tell me everything I needed to know, my advice may possibly melt 
your cpu, warp your harddrive, remove your ram, and if that isn't 
enough, install an unremovable bios from 1975."  

The OP hasn't said anything back yet, which leads me to wonder: did he 
go to sleep, is he paying attention, is he now too embarrassed to say 
anything, or is he stuck trying to see whats on the APC unit and he put 
it in a place that's hard to see.

Don
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Graham Bentley
Back-UPS CS 350 is the lowest model
I got to work on *nix. 

However, you have to ring / mail APC
and ask them to send you out a serial
lead.
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Ian Lord

At 11:47 2006-02-21, Donald J. O'Neill wrote:

On Tuesday 21 February 2006 10:08, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> Donald J. O'Neill wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> >> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
> >
> > As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website,
> > they all have a UPS port. Go from there.
>
> All of the new Smart-UPS APC models that they are selling now have
> USB ports.
>
> There are plenty of older models around in the channel, and there is
> the entire Back-UPS model line that are not "smart", and thus have no
> monitoring/shutdown capabilities.  See the Subject: header...


Then, thats got to be a really old, old one. I've been working (playing
with actually) with computers since the color computer. I won't admit
to anything further back than that. I've never seen one that didn't
have some means of communication (monitoring). Not from APC anyway.

I think the model number from the case would tell us a lot. I think...
therefore I sometimes blow smoke.

Don


Lol in my own opinion, if the user that asked the question can't 
figure out there is a usb/serial port on the unit (I took the 
assumption as true :) I can hardly see how he would manage to compile 
and configure apcupsd :)





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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 10:08, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> Donald J. O'Neill wrote:
> > On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> >> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
> >
> > As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website,
> > they all have a UPS port. Go from there.
>
> All of the new Smart-UPS APC models that they are selling now have
> USB ports.
>
> There are plenty of older models around in the channel, and there is
> the entire Back-UPS model line that are not "smart", and thus have no
> monitoring/shutdown capabilities.  See the Subject: header...


Then, thats got to be a really old, old one. I've been working (playing 
with actually) with computers since the color computer. I won't admit 
to anything further back than that. I've never seen one that didn't 
have some means of communication (monitoring). Not from APC anyway.

I think the model number from the case would tell us a lot. I think... 
therefore I sometimes blow smoke.

Don
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 09:53, Ian Lord wrote:
> At 10:32 2006-02-21, Peter wrote:
> >--- Ian Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > At 09:09 2006-02-21, manish jain wrote:
> > > >Hi,
> > > >
> > > >   I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the
> > > > basic model, not the pro/smart one). It does
> > > > not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get
> > > > apcupsd or any other daemon to work with it so
> > > > that the system automatically shuts down before backup supply
> > > > runs out
> > >
> > > ?
> > >
> > > >   If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be
> > >
> > > grateful.
> > >
> > > >   Thanks
> > > >   Manish Jain
> > >
> > > How do you think freebsd will know the ups is
> > > about to stop providing energy if the ups has no serial or usb
> > > port ?
> > >
> > > :)
> >
> >Maybe he can try using the ESP protocol?
>
> Not too sure what you are talking about, the only esp protocol I know
> is for encryption during a vpn connection... But basically, this ups
> is so "dumb" the only connection between the pc and the ups is
> through the power cable... Unless you find a way to communicate
> through that, there is no way you can know there is a power outage
> (lol unless there is a speaker and you use a microphone to listen for
> the alarm :)
>
I think in this case, he was referring to extra sensory perception. But, 
since this is evidently a model that just sits there and supplies 
backup power until the battery is too depleted to AC power to the 
computer at an acceptable level, and at that point the computer shuts 
off. I would say this model is not capable of esp.

Don
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Chuck Swiger
Donald J. O'Neill wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
[ ... ]
>> No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
>> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.
> 
> As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website, they 
> all have a UPS port. Go from there.

All of the new Smart-UPS APC models that they are selling now have USB ports.

There are plenty of older models around in the channel, and there is the entire
Back-UPS model line that are not "smart", and thus have no monitoring/shutdown
capabilities.  See the Subject: header...

-- 
-Chuck
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Ian Lord

At 10:32 2006-02-21, Peter wrote:


--- Ian Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 09:09 2006-02-21, manish jain wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >   I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the
> > basic model, not the pro/smart one). It does
> > not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get
> > apcupsd or any other daemon to work with it so
> > that the system automatically shuts down before backup supply runs out
> ?
> >
> >   If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be
> grateful.
> >
> >   Thanks
> >   Manish Jain
>
> How do you think freebsd will know the ups is
> about to stop providing energy if the ups has no serial or usb port ?
>
> :)

Maybe he can try using the ESP protocol?


Not too sure what you are talking about, the only esp protocol I know 
is for encryption during a vpn connection... But basically, this ups 
is so "dumb" the only connection between the pc and the ups is 
through the power cable... Unless you find a way to communicate 
through that, there is no way you can know there is a power outage 
(lol unless there is a speaker and you use a microphone to listen for 
the alarm :)




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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Donald J. O'Neill
On Tuesday 21 February 2006 08:26, Chuck Swiger wrote:
> manish jain wrote:
> > I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the
> > pro/smart one).
> > It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or any
> > other daemon to work with it so that the system automatically shuts
> > down before backup supply runs out ?
>
> No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or
> serial port, apcupsd has nothing to work with.

As best I can tell from the OP's description, and the APC website, they 
all have a UPS port. Go from there.

Don
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Peter

--- Ian Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> At 09:09 2006-02-21, manish jain wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >   I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the 
> > basic model, not the pro/smart one). It does 
> > not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get 
> > apcupsd or any other daemon to work with it so 
> > that the system automatically shuts down before backup supply runs out
> ?
> >
> >   If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be
> grateful.
> >
> >   Thanks
> >   Manish Jain
> 
> How do you think freebsd will know the ups is 
> about to stop providing energy if the ups has no serial or usb port ?
> 
> :)

Maybe he can try using the ESP protocol?






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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Chuck Swiger
manish jain wrote:
> I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the pro/smart
> one).
> It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or any other 
> daemon
> to work with it so that the system automatically shuts down before backup 
> supply
> runs out ?

No.  If your UPS isn't smart and does not have an external USB or serial port,
apcupsd has nothing to work with.

-- 
-Chuck
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Re: Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread Ian Lord

At 09:09 2006-02-21, manish jain wrote:

Hi,

  I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the 
basic model, not the pro/smart one). It does 
not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get 
apcupsd or any other daemon to work with it so 
that the system automatically shuts down before backup supply runs out ?


  If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be grateful.

  Thanks
  Manish Jain


How do you think freebsd will know the ups is 
about to stop providing energy if the ups has no serial or usb port ?


:)




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Sans Frais: 1(877) 776-MSDI -> 1(877) 776-6734
http://www.msdi.ca 
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Making APC 500 Back UPS (basic) work with FreeBSD

2006-02-21 Thread manish jain
Hi,
   
  I just purchased an APC 500 Back UPS (the basic model, not the pro/smart 
one). It does not have any serial/usb interface. Can I get apcupsd or any other 
daemon to work with it so that the system automatically shuts down before 
backup supply runs out ?
   
  If someone can attach a sample configuration file, I shall be grateful.
   
  Thanks
  Manish Jain
   


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