Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Danial Thom]

--- Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 6/20/06, Danial Thom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > User manuals and how-tos don't generally get
> > copyright notices, because there is nothing
> > creative about it. Someone could write
> exactly
> > the same thing (just about), and you'd have
> > little claim to it because its just a
> procedural
> > description. What, is the formatting of your
> > index unique or something?
> 
> Not at all.  The entire procedure is unique. 
> That's why
> it's helpful to others, hopefully.
> 
> Check out the FreeBSD handbook.  It's full of
> copyright notices.
> I don't think someone's going to come out with
> a FreeBSD handbook
> without images and claim that they wrote it,
> and then get away with it.
> And even then, the copyright notice is just a
> formality.
> 
> 
> >
> > But that aside, I was more amused by the
> subject
> > "serious breach of copyright", as if someone
> had
> > taken your claim for writing War and Peace or
> > something. They didn't even explicitly put a
> > byline on it. Its just a how-to on a web
> page.
> >
> > And where are the credits for all of the
> how-tos
> > you read to gain this knowledge? Why doesn't
> > their work count? You should have a full
> > bibliography. After all, credit is important!
> >
> > Like I said, who cares.
> >
> > DT
> >

Maybe we can get Ingrid to put your mailing
address on there also so we can send you cards,
gifts and cash donations. Can you make that about
2 points bigger also? We wouldn't want anyone to
miss it.

DT

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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Brett]

On 6/20/06, Danial Thom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



User manuals and how-tos don't generally get
copyright notices, because there is nothing
creative about it. Someone could write exactly
the same thing (just about), and you'd have
little claim to it because its just a procedural
description. What, is the formatting of your
index unique or something?


Not at all.  The entire procedure is unique.  That's why
it's helpful to others, hopefully.

Check out the FreeBSD handbook.  It's full of copyright notices.
I don't think someone's going to come out with a FreeBSD handbook
without images and claim that they wrote it, and then get away with it.
And even then, the copyright notice is just a formality.




But that aside, I was more amused by the subject
"serious breach of copyright", as if someone had
taken your claim for writing War and Peace or
something. They didn't even explicitly put a
byline on it. Its just a how-to on a web page.

And where are the credits for all of the how-tos
you read to gain this knowledge? Why doesn't
their work count? You should have a full
bibliography. After all, credit is important!

Like I said, who cares.

DT

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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Danial Thom]

--- Jim Stapleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mr. Hoffman, I'm surprised this hasn't been
> said, and I'm probably
> overstepping my bounds by saying this, but I've
> been following this
> topic, and I have trouble seeing it as anything
> but trolling. The
> freeBSD groups have always been excessively
> helpful and friendly, and
> you've done alot to insult and antagonize them
> due to the actions of
> *ONE* local group, that is not even related to
> the general groups you
> posted this too. These people on the general
> freebsd have a nice group
> without the trolling and antagonizing seen all
> over other similar
> groups. Please be more considerate and
> respectful with your claims and
> requests so that their forums can stay that
> way.
> 
> 
> 
> > 3) While you might want to refer to me as a
> name-caller, litigious, and
> > puerile, it's far from clear that FreeBSD
> doesn't have political ties when
> > the leaders of FreeBSD groups actively
> campaign for partially restricting
> > people's ability to communicate in any
> language but English.  Even if you
> > ignored these extracuricular activities,
> though, you'd still be faced with
> > the fact that FreeBSD is de jure politicized
> in favor of many things,
> > including free software.
> 
> Interesting you put this here, from a previous
> post:
> 
> > I'm not directly attacking your group.  If
> you're not political, and I'm
> > arguing against something political, how
> could I possibly be 'attacking'
> > your group?
> 
> These two in conjunction, both from you,
> technically count as libel I
> believe, you are making comments towards a
> group, such as calling them
> biggots, and then saying you know it's not
> true. Also, calling someone
> something, when they are not is still
> offensive: If I called you a
> "rabid dog", obviously a false statement, I am
> sure you would be
> offended.
> 
> 
> Also, as to the prohibiting people from
> communicating in languages
> other than english, partially or otherwise, I'm
> sorry, but... A 3/4ths
> blind guy who is impatient and doesn't like
> spending time searching
> for things can find mailing lists for DOZENS of
> of languages... Look
> harder. Now each of these /IS/ language
> specific - but that makes
> sense, the idea here is COMMUNICATION. Ich kann
> auf Deutch sprechen,
> aber hier Ich kann nicht auf Deutch Verbindung
> stehen. In english, I
> can speak in German, but I cannot communicate
> in German here - most
> here (not all) don't speak it. I wouldn't go to
> a German, French,
> Spanish, Japanese, Portugese, etc. etc. etc.
> mailing list and expect
> them to respond to me in English, or be
> anything but offended at my
> arrogance of posting there in English.

Its not illegal or libelous to dictate an
official language, nor is it to call someone a
bigot or rascist, since its a subjective opinion
that can't be proven one way or another. You can
also freely call someone an idiot or a fool,
which I do quite often.

Most people are bigots, in that they prefer their
own language, their favorite OS, their own race,
etc. 

The world cup is prima-fascie evidence of bigotry
in the world. Game on!

DT

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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Danial Thom]

--- Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 6/19/06, Christopher Weldon
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Brett wrote:
> > > Obviously, you have never spent days trying
> out a relatively
> > > undocumented procedure, finally getting it
> right, and then decided to
> > > help others out by writing a howto
> document.  I am perfectly happy
> > > that Ingrid decided to host this document
> on her site, but credit was
> > > due.  Some people do care about the stuff
> they create.
> > >
> > > Try writing something of value, and maybe
> then you'll be qualified to
> > > talk about copyright.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > True to the fact that credit was due, I think
> most everyone on this list
> > has written at least 1 report (or many more)
> or created some form of
> > work sometime in their lives incumbent of
> deserving copyright
> > recognition. So, flaunting that someone is
> not qualified to talk about
> > copyright is most certainly inadequate.
> 
> Danial's comment, which was nothing short of,
> "who cares who wrote
> that stupid article", was insulting and still
> more inadequate.

User manuals and how-tos don't generally get
copyright notices, because there is nothing
creative about it. Someone could write exactly
the same thing (just about), and you'd have
little claim to it because its just a procedural
description. What, is the formatting of your
index unique or something? 

But that aside, I was more amused by the subject
"serious breach of copyright", as if someone had
taken your claim for writing War and Peace or
something. They didn't even explicitly put a
byline on it. Its just a how-to on a web page. 

And where are the credits for all of the how-tos
you read to gain this knowledge? Why doesn't
their work count? You should have a full
bibliography. After all, credit is important!

Like I said, who cares.

DT

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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Jim Stapleton]

Mr. Hoffman, I'm surprised this hasn't been said, and I'm probably
overstepping my bounds by saying this, but I've been following this
topic, and I have trouble seeing it as anything but trolling. The
freeBSD groups have always been excessively helpful and friendly, and
you've done alot to insult and antagonize them due to the actions of
*ONE* local group, that is not even related to the general groups you
posted this too. These people on the general freebsd have a nice group
without the trolling and antagonizing seen all over other similar
groups. Please be more considerate and respectful with your claims and
requests so that their forums can stay that way.




3) While you might want to refer to me as a name-caller, litigious, and
puerile, it's far from clear that FreeBSD doesn't have political ties when
the leaders of FreeBSD groups actively campaign for partially restricting
people's ability to communicate in any language but English.  Even if you
ignored these extracuricular activities, though, you'd still be faced with
the fact that FreeBSD is de jure politicized in favor of many things,
including free software.


Interesting you put this here, from a previous post:


I'm not directly attacking your group.  If you're not political, and I'm
arguing against something political, how could I possibly be 'attacking'
your group?


These two in conjunction, both from you, technically count as libel I
believe, you are making comments towards a group, such as calling them
biggots, and then saying you know it's not true. Also, calling someone
something, when they are not is still offensive: If I called you a
"rabid dog", obviously a false statement, I am sure you would be
offended.


Also, as to the prohibiting people from communicating in languages
other than english, partially or otherwise, I'm sorry, but... A 3/4ths
blind guy who is impatient and doesn't like spending time searching
for things can find mailing lists for DOZENS of of languages... Look
harder. Now each of these /IS/ language specific - but that makes
sense, the idea here is COMMUNICATION. Ich kann auf Deutch sprechen,
aber hier Ich kann nicht auf Deutch Verbindung stehen. In english, I
can speak in German, but I cannot communicate in German here - most
here (not all) don't speak it. I wouldn't go to a German, French,
Spanish, Japanese, Portugese, etc. etc. etc. mailing list and expect
them to respond to me in English, or be anything but offended at my
arrogance of posting there in English.



4) Discussions of copyright seem appropriate for freebsd-standard, since any
reputable organization that publishes material with computers today makes a
good faith effort to ensure they do not violate any copyright.  It is
therefore a de facto standard.



But all groups at once? Just because they all fit the topic, doesn't
change the fact that you are willingly and wontonly breaking the rule.



Interestingly enough, I do agree with your first point that the
copyright needed to be taken care of, but you could have handled this
infinetly more effectively.

Thank you,
-Jim Stapleton
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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[David Hoffman]

On 6/19/06, John Baldwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Sunday 18 June 2006 19:49, David Hoffman wrote:
> * *It appears the page at
> http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htmconstitutes a serious
> breach of copyright.  The article, which was
> originally written and posted to the Internet by the owner of the
account
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], is falsely attributed to the Houston FUG, whose
members
> maliciously removed all reference to its original creator.  On a related
> note, the FUG seems to be part of an organized group to convince all
States
> to adopt English as an official language, a bigoted and misguided
policy.
>
> Plagiarism should not be tolerated.
>
> Thanks.

1) Please go outdoors and ride a bike or something.  You are apparently
   way, way overstressed.

2) Using terms like "malicious" without proof (and it appears the claim
   was completely false based on follow-ups since the user group in
question
   added an attribute once they were notified) reduces your credibility
   immensely.  If anything, if the HouFUG were anywhere as litiguous as
you
   they could probably bring a civil suit of libel against you. :)  In
   general it works better if one calmly works to resolve disputes instead
   of yelling and screaming and whipping out DMCA notices as the first
   action.

3) FreeBSD is not a political association and has no political ties.  This
   should be rather obvious.  On a general note, if you want to discuss
   issues, it is generally far more credible and useful to include some
   content in your argument besides elementary-school style name-calling.
   You seem to have done this twice in this e-mail for both issues.

4) You also violated FreeBSD mailing list etiquette by cross-posting to
   four mailing lists.  FreeBSD-standards@' charter has to do with
   conformance to computer standards such as POSIX, etc.  Please have the
   courtesy to make sure the lists you are mailing actually discuss what
   you think they discuss before posting in the future as most list
readers
   have enough relevant e-mail to wade through as it is.

--
John Baldwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve" = http://www.FreeBSD.org



2) What do you call removing all reference to the author of a copyrighted
work, and then republishing it claiming it as your own?  If not malicious,
that's certainly an act of bad faith.  Moreover, the fact that they added
the notice only AFTER being caught red handed does not suggest they weren't
being malicious when they stole the article in question.

Also, why are you suggesting I'm litigious?  I didn't once make reference to
any lawsuit.

3) While you might want to refer to me as a name-caller, litigious, and
puerile, it's far from clear that FreeBSD doesn't have political ties when
the leaders of FreeBSD groups actively campaign for partially restricting
people's ability to communicate in any language but English.  Even if you
ignored these extracuricular activities, though, you'd still be faced with
the fact that FreeBSD is de jure politicized in favor of many things,
including free software.

4) Discussions of copyright seem appropriate for freebsd-standard, since any
reputable organization that publishes material with computers today makes a
good faith effort to ensure they do not violate any copyright.  It is
therefore a de facto standard.
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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[David Hoffman]

Update:  their website now attributes copyright to both HouFUG AND Brett.
This is despite the fact that Brett seems to be the sole owner of the work.
I'm not sure why this community feels it can disregard rights to
intellectual property, especially when it produces so much on its OWN to be
proud of.  Why steal other people's stuff?

On 6/18/06, David Hoffman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is publishing.  They've
now noted on their site that it was written by you.  However, they STILL
claim they own the copyright.  Have you waived any of your exclusive rights
to the work?

On 6/18/06, Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at
> http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html, 
clears up any confusion.
>
> thank you!
> On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe
> a
> > problem with this article.  He did NOT bother to tell me he was the
> owner of
> > it.  All I knew is someone named Brett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
> > letting me know there was a problem.  I immediately went to
> arbornet.org to
> > see where the original information was so I could find the
> originator's name
> > and emailed him back, here is my reply.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM
> > To: 'Brett'
> > Subject: RE: concerned question
> >
> > I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is
> > referenced at the bottom.
> > Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org?  I
> would not
> > want to infringe on anyone's rights.
> >
> >
> > Ingrid Kast Fuller
> > CityScope Net 713-477-6161
> > 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264
> > Pasadena, TX 77504-3076
> > http://www.cityscope.net
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: concerned question
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at
> > http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm
> > that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced.  It holds
> a
> > copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article.
> > Please attribute the work to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
> >
> > Thank you,
> > A concerned citizen
> >
> >
> >
>



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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[David Hoffman]

It'll certainly be less confusing that what HouFUG is publishing.  They've
now noted on their site that it was written by you.  However, they STILL
claim they own the copyright.  Have you waived any of your exclusive rights
to the work?

On 6/18/06, Brett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Hello

I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at
http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html , clears up any confusion.

thank you!
On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a
> problem with this article.  He did NOT bother to tell me he was the
owner of
> it.  All I knew is someone named Brett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
> letting me know there was a problem.  I immediately went to arbornet.orgto
> see where the original information was so I could find the originator's
name
> and emailed him back, here is my reply.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM
> To: 'Brett'
> Subject: RE: concerned question
>
> I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is
> referenced at the bottom.
> Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org?  I would
not
> want to infringe on anyone's rights.
>
>
> Ingrid Kast Fuller
> CityScope Net 713-477-6161
> 3910 Fairmont Parkway #264
> Pasadena, TX 77504-3076
> http://www.cityscope.net
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: concerned question
>
> Hi.
>
> It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at
> http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm
> that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced.  It holds a
> copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article.
> Please attribute the work to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
>
> Thank you,
> A concerned citizen
>
>
>


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Re: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Brett]

Hello

I hope the DMCA copyright notice, found at
http://arbornet.org/~soup/dmca.html , clears up any confusion.

thank you!
On 6/18/06, Ingrid Kast Fuller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a
problem with this article.  He did NOT bother to tell me he was the owner of
it.  All I knew is someone named Brett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
letting me know there was a problem.  I immediately went to arbornet.org to
see where the original information was so I could find the originator's name
and emailed him back, here is my reply.

-Original Message-
From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM
To: 'Brett'
Subject: RE: concerned question

I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is
referenced at the bottom.
Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org?  I would not
want to infringe on anyone's rights.


Ingrid Kast Fuller
CityScope Net 713-477-6161
3910 Fairmont Parkway #264
Pasadena, TX 77504-3076
http://www.cityscope.net



-Original Message-
From: Brett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: concerned question

Hi.

It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at
http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm
that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced.  It holds a
copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article.
Please attribute the work to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .

Thank you,
A concerned citizen




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RE: Serious breach of copyright -- First post

[Ingrid Kast Fuller]

I responded to Bretts email 6 minutes after he informed me there maybe a
problem with this article.  He did NOT bother to tell me he was the owner of
it.  All I knew is someone named Brett at [EMAIL PROTECTED] was
letting me know there was a problem.  I immediately went to arbornet.org to
see where the original information was so I could find the originator's name
and emailed him back, here is my reply.  

-Original Message-
From: Ingrid Kast Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:40 PM
To: 'Brett'
Subject: RE: concerned question

I got the information from the freebsd-config mailing list which is
referenced at the bottom. 
Do you know where the original information is on arbornet.org?  I would not
want to infringe on anyone's rights. 


Ingrid Kast Fuller
CityScope Net 713-477-6161
3910 Fairmont Parkway #264
Pasadena, TX 77504-3076
http://www.cityscope.net



-Original Message-
From: Brett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 6:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: concerned question

Hi.

It has come to my attention that you have an article, located at
http://www.houfug.org/help/install_freebsd.htm
that is hosted on your fine site and yet is not referenced.  It holds a
copyright reference for houfug, who did not write the article.
Please attribute the work to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .

Thank you,
A concerned citizen 


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