Re: What FreeBSD users really want
Hello Sammy, It is really nice that you have told us yourt insight on the matter. I would also like to express my ideas. Please read my replies inline. On 7/22/06, sammy sumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Every Linux Distributor in the world is hard at work reinventing the interface and making the Linux as user friendly as possible but we're still dogged by turn of the century hassle with our FreeBSD. This is not correct. The only distros which are working hard to get the interface more friendly are thoes which has some kind of earning. Just for example, if you check slackware, they still have a barebones interface. Secondly FreeBSD community only looks after the base tree. And as per my knowledge, the interface is something external. Here is what I would fix: 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. This is not a bad idea. But again is that really worth the trouble. The existing interface works perfectly. So why fix something which is not broken. BTW, by reinventing if you mean to say that make the installer go graphical, then there is a small problem. You are making the installer more heavy which really has no value. 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. This would be a very good idea if you have something call FreeBSD-Web_Edition which is not the case. FreeBSD hosts all kinds of services. Therefore the more things u put in stock OS, there would be more points of failure. BTW why do you feel that the existing port system is not adequate? PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on FreeBSD. Perl is no less popular. Specially Perl had been around far longer than PHP. But FBSD does not have perl in stock installations either. Primarrily for the idea of "Keep It Simple". Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular and ugly programming language in the world. It may be ugly, but its a really fast way to implement small operations. And FYI, we system admins swear by shell scripts. It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as their O.S of their choice because of PHP. Do you have this documented? 3.Content Management Website Your current website looks very ordinary and doesn't make any impression for anyone visiting your site for the first time. Well we recently got the website look changed. Did you like the earlier view? Would you please tell us what you mean by ordinary and what kind of website would be more acceptable to people in generaly. Please consider the fact that sometimes all you have is a text based browser to refer to the handbook when you are stuck up in the middle of an installation. So please provide your comments considering the same. Don't get me wrong, I love FreeBSD and I always remain loyal to it. I love the unique port collection concept for third party application installation. Of course not. The biggest asset of FreeBSD is its users. So as a user you have full rights to express your insight. Thanks and Best Regards Subhro -- Subhro Kar Security Engineer iViZ Techno Solutions Pvt. Ltd. Dhanshree Bldg, 1st Floor Plot XI-16, Sector V Salt Lake City 700091 India ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
sammy sumer wrote: > Here is what I would fix: > > 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. This has been beaten to death a zillion times. Please read the archives for opinions and why this won't happen any time soon. > 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. Why? Install from ports and you're done. There might be licence issues that prevents it from being included in base. And it drags the development down. You've got to understand how the FreeBSD development differs from that of Linux. The linux distros pull in a lot of stuff from everywhere and make that a distro - there is no such thing as a base system. Then some install php by default. In FreeBSD there is a complete system, base, maintained by the FreeBSD development team. Adding more stuff to base means that development will slow as there is more code to be maintained and checked before a new release can be made. And there is no benefit - just install from ports. Maybe what you want is that one of the predefined distributions you can choose in the installer includes php? There is nothing that prevents you from installing it as a package. > PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not > have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can > easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on > FreeBSD. > > Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular > and ugly programming language in the world. > > It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that > millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as > their O.S of their choice because of PHP. Read above - just install php from ports and you're done! csh and sh included in base are essential and sufficient to get basic stuff done at startup, you want to make sure that the system at boot depends on as little complexity as possible, this allows you always to get the basic system up so you can resolve any problems. Running core system scripts in a third party language is insane. Even bash is not in base. Perl was removed from base. Keep the system clean and you will have it reliable. Then add all the other stuff on top. > 3.Content Management Website > > Your current website looks very ordinary and doesn't make any impression > for > anyone visiting your site for the first time. > > There are outstanding open source CMS like Joomla, Mambo, eZ Publish, > Drupel > just to name a few out there that let you build a very quick and > professional website in no times The website had a thorough brushup less than a year ago, so you won't get anywhere with this. And, taking resources for yet another brushup may slow development. A CMS doesn't make the site look more or less professional, it lets you manage the content as the name suggests. Who knows, certainly some kind of content management is done .. but we can't see that. Joomla and others are well known for their security problems. Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: http://www.locolomo.org X.509 Certificate: http://www.locolomo.org/crt/8D03551FFCE04F0C.crt Key ID: 69:79:B8:2C:E3:8F:E7:BE:5D:C3:C3:B1:74:62:B8:3F:9F:1F:69:B9 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
"sammy sumer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here is what I would fix: > > 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. > > Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There > is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and > why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis > TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. These are great ideas. The most comprehensive attempt at this has been libh, which attempted to seperate the display of the installer from the logic behind it, thus allowing the installer to look pretty and graphical on fully graphical terminals, yet work over a serial console as well. The project has stalled a dozen times due to lack of manpower. I'm sure they'd appreciate any help you could provide: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/libh.html > 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. > > PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not > have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can > easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on > FreeBSD. > > Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular > and ugly programming language in the world. > > It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that > millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as > their O.S of their choice because of PHP. This is a great idea, I'm embarrassed that I never thought of it. I don't see what it has to do with FreeBSD, however. It soulds like a project for Zend or the other PHP folks. Once they have it, it can be made into a FreeBSD port easily, then the Linux folks can benefit as well. Jump on over to the PHP site and throw your idea out. I'm sure they could use some help getting it developed. -- Bill Moran Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? FreeBSD: Are you guys coming or what? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 09:03:47PM +1000, sammy sumer wrote: > 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. > > Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There > is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and A lot of people consider FreeBSD as primarily an OS for use as a mail/file/web server, so a graphical installer is not necessary. The text mode installer is looking a bit dated and could be made to look more "polished", but I don't think this is a big deal. > why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis > TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. Why? Installing FreeBSD from CD only takes about 15 minutes on a modern machine. Faster if you do a minimal install. A disk image wouldn't allow people to exlude parts of FreeBSD they don't want to install, eg. X Windows. ISO disk images of the entire OS ans selected binary packages are available for burning to CD though. > 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. > > PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not > have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can > easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on > FreeBSD. I already use Python for this, but I wouldn't want Python to be in the base system as it would make it more difficult to upgrade to a newer version of Python. If you've used Python for a while you'd probably notice how much more suitable it is for what you describe, compared to PHP. I recommend you check it out. Regards Andrew Melbourne, Australia ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
Every Linux Distributor in the world is hard at work reinventing the interface and making the Linux as user friendly as possible but we're still dogged by turn of the century hassle with our FreeBSD. Here is what I would fix: 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. To my experience, especially with application installation, linux has still yet to approach FreeBSD, let along Windows in this manner. As for the OS installer, ok, it's not pretty to look at, and it's far from perfect (fdisk needs a lot of work for one - it has issues with some hardware, but it's well beyond my skill level to work on sadly). As for the disk imaging technology... Do you have _any_ clue about what goes into installing an OS? To my knowledge, no variant of Linux, Windows, etc. uses disk imaging technology. There is a very good reason for this - it doesn't allow for a lot of necessary customisation without a lot of extra complication in the installer. However, while a GUI installer would be nice, as stated to me in a previous email, a lot of people know this would be useful, but the manpower required for such a project is immense compared to what is available from people with the required skills. 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on FreeBSD. Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular and ugly programming language in the world. It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as their O.S of their choice because of PHP. No offense, but, it doesn't even integrate BASH. I had to install the bash package so I wasn't stuck to CSH, and BASH is much more popular than any PHP shell. (Wait, is there a PHP shell? I know there is a CLI interpereter, but that's different). Regardless, if it's in ports (which it probably is if there is such a thing), then just install it, not very difficult at all. Also, PHP is extremely large and slow compared to things like CSH and BASH. Thus, if only one is being chosen, PHP would be a pretty low choice: the idea of BSD is to start with something relatively minimal and build it up to what you need, so you aren't stuck with excess clutter you don't need, as you often see in most other operating systems. Integrating such a shell would be very contradictory to this philosophy, and waste a lot of resources for people who don't want that waste, or don't have them to spare. Also, just because you can't see a reason to use/learn SH doesn't mean others can't. I knew PHP long before SH, and I still prefer it for a lot of things, but SH has a lot of important advantages that cannot easily be chaned (for one, it is almost ubiquitous, except in windows and Mac OS < X). Also, can you actually pull numbers to support your statements about popularity and lack thereof? There are less popular languages than SH (which, by the way, is the glue of UNIX), and to be honest, last I checked, C and Perl were more popular, by far, than PHP. Oh, and I use PHP for my websites and run some on BSD without issue. All I had to do was take one trivial step after syncing ports, which is the first thing I do in FreeBSD: $ cd /usr/ports/lang/php5 $ sudo make install clean VIOLA, PHP in no time! 3.Content Management Website Your current website looks very ordinary and doesn't make any impression for anyone visiting your site for the first time. Yeah, it's great, I don't have to deal with a lot of crap and clutter to find what I need. Personally, I think it could be simplified more, but hey, nothing is perfect. No matter what the website is, it will always have some people that don't like it. To be honest, I think it's far enough away from the BSD philosophy as is, and your suggestion would only move it further. To be honest though, the simplicity and lack of crap made an impression on me and a few that I know, and a good one. Remember, not everyone is like you, and just because something doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it won't appeal to others. One thing to remember, I've been in BSD for only about 6-8 months, but I figured it out pretty quickly: the idea behind BSD is to have a minimal and functional operating system that allows a user to easily build up to what he or she needs to do a task effectively. You do have to put some effort in, but this helps keep machines secure (by not having unknown and useless [for the user] things on them that could open vulnerabilities
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 7/22/06, Jim Stapleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Every Linux Distributor in the world is hard at work reinventing the > interface and making the Linux as user friendly as possible but we're still > dogged by turn of the century hassle with our FreeBSD. > > Here is what I would fix: > > 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. > > Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There > is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and > why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis > TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. > To my experience, especially with application installation, linux has still yet to approach FreeBSD, let along Windows in this manner. As for the OS installer, ok, it's not pretty to look at, and it's far from perfect (fdisk needs a lot of work for one - it has issues with some hardware, but it's well beyond my skill level to work on sadly). As for the disk imaging technology... Do you have _any_ clue about what goes into installing an OS? To my knowledge, no variant of Linux, Windows, etc. uses disk imaging technology. There is a very good reason for this - it doesn't allow for a lot of necessary customisation without a lot of extra complication in the installer. However, while a GUI installer would be nice, as stated to me in a previous email, a lot of people know this would be useful, but the manpower required for such a project is immense compared to what is available from people with the required skills. > 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. > > PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not > have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can > easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on > FreeBSD. > > Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular > and ugly programming language in the world. > > It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that > millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as > their O.S of their choice because of PHP. No offense, but, it doesn't even integrate BASH. I had to install the bash package so I wasn't stuck to CSH, and BASH is much more popular than any PHP shell. (Wait, is there a PHP shell? I know there is a CLI interpereter, but that's different). Regardless, if it's in ports (which it probably is if there is such a thing), then just install it, not very difficult at all. Also, PHP is extremely large and slow compared to things like CSH and BASH. Thus, if only one is being chosen, PHP would be a pretty low choice: the idea of BSD is to start with something relatively minimal and build it up to what you need, so you aren't stuck with excess clutter you don't need, as you often see in most other operating systems. Integrating such a shell would be very contradictory to this philosophy, and waste a lot of resources for people who don't want that waste, or don't have them to spare. Also, just because you can't see a reason to use/learn SH doesn't mean others can't. I knew PHP long before SH, and I still prefer it for a lot of things, but SH has a lot of important advantages that cannot easily be chaned (for one, it is almost ubiquitous, except in windows and Mac OS < X). Also, can you actually pull numbers to support your statements about popularity and lack thereof? There are less popular languages than SH (which, by the way, is the glue of UNIX), and to be honest, last I checked, C and Perl were more popular, by far, than PHP. Oh, and I use PHP for my websites and run some on BSD without issue. All I had to do was take one trivial step after syncing ports, which is the first thing I do in FreeBSD: $ cd /usr/ports/lang/php5 $ sudo make install clean VIOLA, PHP in no time! > 3.Content Management Website > > Your current website looks very ordinary and doesn't make any impression for > anyone visiting your site for the first time. Yeah, it's great, I don't have to deal with a lot of crap and clutter to find what I need. Personally, I think it could be simplified more, but hey, nothing is perfect. No matter what the website is, it will always have some people that don't like it. To be honest, I think it's far enough away from the BSD philosophy as is, and your suggestion would only move it further. To be honest though, the simplicity and lack of crap made an impression on me and a few that I know, and a good one. Remember, not everyone is like you, and just because something doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it won't appeal to others. One thing to remember, I've been in BSD for only about 6-8 months, but I figured it out pretty quickly: the idea behind BSD is to have a minimal and functional operating system that allows a user to easily build up to what he or she needs to do a task effectively. You do have to put some effort in, but this helps keep machines s
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 22/07/06, sammy sumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To Whom It May Concern: 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. One thing I would say is that FreeBSD installs a complete operating system far faster than any other OS out there. This does matter to some people, though not everyone. A few years ago I was new to FreeBSD (and UNIX/Linux in general) and I went through the installation. The only thing that caught me out was adding a user (me) but not putting myself in the wheel group. After the installation completed I removed the monitor and plugged it back into my usual desktop machine. I could SSH in but not su. It really was the only thing that caught me out. 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on FreeBSD. Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular and ugly programming language in the world. It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact that millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as their O.S of their choice because of PHP Would that be PHP and all its associated modules from the base install? That's big, and for many people unnecessary. Why would I need it for my (10) mail servers. It wouldn't serve any purpose. Also PHP "syntax" is not consistent. Take a look here: http://tnx.nl/php. sh scripting is a low level "standard" across other Unices. The only thing I wish I had learned so much sooner was "set autolist" in my .cshrc. I didn't know it was there, and I have no idea why it is not in the default dot.cshrc file. No doubt good reasons, but I "got by" for months before I found this out. All that time I was going "bash can do it, why can't csh?" Sammy Sumer Frem. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On Saturday 22 July 2006 10:33, Freminlins wrote: > The only thing I wish I had learned so much sooner was "set autolist" in my > .cshrc. I didn't know it was there, and I have no idea why it is not in the > default dot.cshrc file. No doubt good reasons, but I "got by" for months > before I found this out. All that time I was going "bash can do it, why > can't csh?" Heh.. I didn't know about it until you mentioned it. What a great little feature! David -- Sure God created the world in only six days, but He didn't have an established user-base. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 7/22/06, Freminlins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 22/07/06, sammy sumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > To Whom It May Concern: > > 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. > > Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. > There > is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer > and > why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis > TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. One thing I would say is that FreeBSD installs a complete operating system far faster than any other OS out there. This does matter to some people, though not everyone. A few years ago I was new to FreeBSD (and UNIX/Linux in general) and I went through the installation. The only thing that caught me out was adding a user (me) but not putting myself in the wheel group. After the installation completed I removed the monitor and plugged it back into my usual desktop machine. I could SSH in but not su. It really was the only thing that caught me out. 2.Integrate a PHP shell into the core of the system. > > PHP is by far the most popular computing language in the world. Why not > have a shell called PHP shell. So lots of web developers out there can > easily create shell scripts in PHP syntax to automate and run programs on > FreeBSD. > > Who wants to learn bash or sh scripting? They are by far the least popular > and ugly programming language in the world. > > It is astounding that FreeBSD developers have not clued in to the fact > that > millions of backend webmasters could easily migrate and adopt FreeBSD as > their O.S of their choice because of PHP Would that be PHP and all its associated modules from the base install? That's big, and for many people unnecessary. Why would I need it for my (10) mail servers. It wouldn't serve any purpose. Also PHP "syntax" is not consistent. Take a look here: http://tnx.nl/php. sh scripting is a low level "standard" across other Unices. The only thing I wish I had learned so much sooner was "set autolist" in my .cshrc. I didn't know it was there, and I have no idea why it is not in the default dot.cshrc file. No doubt good reasons, but I "got by" for months before I found this out. All that time I was going "bash can do it, why can't csh?" Sammy Sumer > i've done it already, thanks for the set autolist tip frem :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On Saturday 22 July 2006 12:03, sammy sumer wrote: > 3. Content Management Website > > Your current website looks very ordinary and doesn't make any impression > for anyone visiting your site for the first time. > > There are outstanding open source CMS like Joomla, Mambo, eZ Publish, > Drupel just to name a few out there that let you build a very quick and > professional website in no times What do you mean by "professional"? Persoanlly, I think the FreeBSD.org site is one of the best on the entire web. It's clean, functional and everything is available within a few clicks which make it appear highly professional to me. (Yes, i've done some web design in my time too). Now that I think about it, it reminds of the design philosophy Google have chosen to use. If "plain and simple" is good enough for a multi-billion dollar company like Google which is accessed by approximately half of the worlds internet users multiple times per day then I think that same design style is good enough for FreeBSD. Or did you mean "professional" from a marketing point of view with the general masses of the internet population as a target? Do you want flash animations, fancy graphics and stuff which add nothing but eye candy to a site? -- Dave ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On Saturday 22 July 2006 16:51, David J Brooks wrote: > On Saturday 22 July 2006 10:33, Freminlins wrote: > > The only thing I wish I had learned so much sooner was "set autolist" in > > my .cshrc. I didn't know it was there, and I have no idea why it is not > > in the default dot.cshrc file. No doubt good reasons, but I "got by" for > > months before I found this out. All that time I was going "bash can do > > it, why can't csh?" > > Heh.. I didn't know about it until you mentioned it. What a great little > feature! :-) Nice feature. -- Dave ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 7/22/06, sammy sumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To Whom It May Concern: Greeting from Australia I commend your efforts and your success. Following are some gripes with FreeBSD and ideas to fix them. I have been using FreeBSD for a few years. I have also played with lots of Linux distributions but still FreeBSD is my first choice as a computer system admin and backend web developer. But you know what pisses me off about FreeBSD? It is the little things. Every Linux Distributor in the world is hard at work reinventing the interface and making the Linux as user friendly as possible but we're still dogged by turn of the century hassle with our FreeBSD. Here is what I would fix: 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. http://wikitest.freebsd.org/BSDInstaller -David -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# fortune Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
Complime to the folks at FreeBSD I write to extend my thanks and appreciation for your replies to my e-mail. Your responses were clear, easy and straight to the point. Keep up the good work! Thank you so much for helping people like me to learn about FreeBSD. You deserve the Nobel Prize in software category. Regards Sammy Sumer On 7/23/06, David Stanford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 7/22/06, sammy sumer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > To Whom It May Concern: Greeting from Australia I commend your efforts and your success. Following are some gripes with FreeBSD and ideas to fix them. I have been using FreeBSD for a few years. I have also played with lots of Linux distributions but still FreeBSD is my first choice as a computer system admin and backend web developer. But you know what pisses me off about FreeBSD? It is the little things. Every Linux Distributor in the world is hard at work reinventing the interface and making the Linux as user friendly as possible but we're still dogged by turn of the century hassle with our FreeBSD. Here is what I would fix: 1.Reinvent the installer and interface. Fundamental thing like system installer is still phenomenally arcane. There is no excuse for FreeBSD developers not to upgrade the system installer and why not using disk imaging technology like Norton ghost or Acronis TrueImageinstead of the traditional installation. http://wikitest.freebsd.org/BSDInstaller -David -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]# fortune Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
You know, for me, the little things have nothing to do with what you said. The little things have to do with the stuff my wife needs. Trivial things, like easily writing data to a CD, just like she does on her work with Windows, and automounting floppies for DOS formatted floppies. Automounting like in Linux. Every thing else is just fine, we ahve everything in FreeBSD that a desktop user needs. My 2 cents. HL ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
Jim Stapleton wrote: No offense, but, it doesn't even integrate BASH. I had to install the bash package so I wasn't stuck to CSH, and BASH is much more popular than any PHP shell. (Wait, is there a PHP shell? I know there is a CLI interpereter, but that's different). Regardless, if it's in ports (which it probably is if there is such a thing), then just install it, not very difficult at all. Indeed. Very easy. To me, the bare-bones-ness of FreeBSD is one if its strongest points. I happened to read this thread after an employee birthday party, so please excuse the poor analogy to follow... Linux distros are like cakes that arrive fully baked, frosted and decorated. Don't like that flavor? Wrong number of candles? Too bad, use a different distro, or fight the installer to stop it from doing things you don't want it to do. Very, um, Microsoft. FreeBSD is like a build-your-own-cake kit. It arrives as a nearly flavorless slab of yellow cake. Then you decide if it should be double chocolate or lemon or [choose from 20,000 options here]... All you have to do is tell it in your kernel config: options batter angelfood and then cd /usr/src make WITH_FROSTING="orange" cd /usr/ports/deco/candles make KIND=birthday COUNT=40 make light make sing In my opinion, FreeBSD should never change its model to arriving as a fully completed cake. The ability to choose (including the choice of "plain old cake, no frosting, no decoration") is just priceless. At most, the installer might be improved to make it easier to make good choices. It most definitely should not start choosing for me, at least not beyond the minimal "components required for a plain cake" level. -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) , (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
What I (a FreeBSD user) really want: * Xen v3.x dom0 support. * Xen v3.x domU support. * Stable File System. * A Faster, then Linux, File System. * File system journaling so I don't have to fsck a >2TB array. * Drivers for even more SAS/SATA RAID Controllers. * A system that fully supports (no soft limits) >2TB arrays. * Better SMP Support. * Dead to GIANTs. * A Faster, then Linux, TCP/IP Stack. * Better Gigabit Ethernet Support. * Better YukenII Support... checksum offloading etc. * 10-Gigabit Ethernet Support. * Working DRM/DRI in X.org. * Envy24 Audio Controller Support. * Better Multimedia hardware support. * KDE 4. * Firefox to be less bloated and port to QT. * OOo to be less bloated and ported to QT. * A fully open sourced Opera. * A fully open sourced Flash, or a FreeBSD binary. * A fully open sourced Java. * Adobe Photoshop for FreeBSD, or at least for Linux. * Adobe InDesign for FreeBSD. * Dead to binary blobs. * Companies to release (full) documentation. * Apple to open source Mac OS X. or OS-X for the white box PC. * a MacBook Pro. * More cash. * Hot chicks. * World Peace. Thats good enough for right now. -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
Greg Barniskis writes: > In my opinion, FreeBSD should never change its model to arriving > as a fully completed cake. Conversely ... if someone wants to build something fully specified based on FreeBSD, more power to 'em. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 03:55:03PM -0500, Nikolas Britton wrote: > What I (a FreeBSD user) really want: [...] What I really want is a keyboard button marked "DWIM (NWIS)" for "Do What I Meant (Not What I Said)". -- David Kelly N4HHE, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
David Kelly writes: > On Tue, Jul 25, 2006 at 03:55:03PM -0500, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > What I (a FreeBSD user) really want: > > What I really want is a keyboard button marked "DWIM (NWIS)" for > "Do What I Meant (Not What I Said)". A "Smite!" key. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 7/22/06, Freminlins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The only thing I wish I had learned so much sooner was "set autolist" in my .cshrc. I didn't know it was there, and I have no idea why it is not in the default dot.cshrc file. No doubt good reasons, but I "got by" for months before I found this out. All that time I was going "bash can do it, why can't csh?" Thanks, I've been wondering how you do that. -- BSD Podcasts @: http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/ http://freebsdforall.blogspot.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
On 25/07/06 Henry Lenzi said: > You know, for me, the little things have nothing to do with what you said. > The little things have to do with the stuff my wife needs. Trivial > things, like easily writing data to a CD, just like she does on her > work with Windows, and automounting floppies for DOS formatted > floppies. Automounting like in Linux. > Every thing else is just fine, we ahve everything in FreeBSD that a > desktop user needs. That comes at a price. I've heard some reports of CD-ROMs failing on Linux due to the HAL daemon polling it so often that it finally just dies. There are major debates in the Linux community about the supposed user-friendly behaviour of Gnome and KDE, and whether it's truly friendly. Personally, I'd be happy with a button to mount my devices, instead of automounting. Be careful whenever you say that it should work like Windows. Mike -- Michael P. Soulier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." --Albert Einstein pgpMtpHMOGn7W.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What FreeBSD users really want
There are major debates in the Linux community about the supposed user-friendly behaviour of Gnome and KDE, and whether it's truly friendly. Personally, I'd be happy with a button to mount my devices, instead of automounting. Yes, I agree. But you see, sometimes its hard to explain to people why I use FreeBSD. Linux has solved those little glitches, and is prefectly usable (I hope I am spared of the "Huh, why dontcha use Leenoox kne-jerk reaction - obviously because I like FreeBSD better - but what I can put up with is not the same as the non-geek user can). Let's hope these areas get a little better...And BTW, you can't even pretend FreeBSD will get more media coverage if they don't... Cheers. HL ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
