Re: Windows X
On Tuesday 20 July 2004 10:00 pm, Vulpes Velox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Joshua Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DESKTOP: If you are planning on this being a desktop replacement then I can fully understand wanting to have a cool desktop. KDE is very popular as well as GNOME. You can see screenshots on their respective websites. KDE has a cool feature that if set up allows you to pick your window manager on login (mind you this causes KDE and X windows to be running at all times). This would require reading chapter 5 in the FreeBSD Handbook. This is arguably you greatest source of FreeBSD information. It is a short chapter to read but does explain quite a lot. I myself had to read the chapter more then once before I fully understood it. Now I feel very comfortable using X. No expert but I feel very comfortable. I suggest something lighter, but easily configurable. Try XFCE, Fluxbox, Windowmaker, or the like. There are many window managers avialable. To find the list just go to http://www.freebsd.org/ports/x11-wm.html and start browsing. :) I just installed the newest XFce today, and wow, it's nice. Very fast. I don't want to give up KMail, but like a lot of other KDE apps, it runs other KDE processes that tend to bog it down in any wm. But it's very quick on XFce, faster even than on IceWM, at least on my machine. It wouldn't matter so much to me, but KMail is by far my favorite GUI email client. If I were a better programmer I'd backwards engineer it without all the hooks into KDE stuff, but maybe later ... Mozilla starts in less than two seconds without being preloaded. Amazing. Who said Mozilla is slow starting? Not me anymore. I'm glad you posted this, because it reminded me to give XFce a test. IceWM doesn't seem to perform nearly as quickly for me (which is odd), but maybe I don't have it configured correctly. I think I like XFce better anyway ;) - jt ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
and start browsing. :) I just installed the newest XFce today, and wow, it's nice. Very fast. I don't compared to KDE - for sure fast. want to give up KMail, but like a lot of other KDE apps, it runs other KDE no problem to run KMail without KDE except it will take lot of CPU too. processes that tend to bog it down in any wm. But it's very quick on XFce, faster even than on IceWM, at least on my machine. It wouldn't matter so much to me, but KMail is by far my favorite GUI email client. If I were a better programmer I'd backwards engineer it without all the hooks into KDE stuff, nice idea. hopefully text-mode pine is fine for me, quick and can be configured to run right programs to view attachment (like xv to view .jpg, gif etc.) but maybe later ... Mozilla starts in less than two seconds without being preloaded. Amazing. Who said Mozilla is slow starting? Not me anymore. slow and fast is relative. to machine and to other programs. it takes 10 seconds on my celeron/300 to load mozilla, while links -g starts in 1 second. I'm glad you posted this, because it reminded me to give XFce a test. IceWM doesn't seem to perform nearly as quickly for me (which is odd), but maybe I don't have it configured correctly. I think I like XFce better anyway ;) strange, or XFce is really so fast. must try. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 07:07 am, Wojciech Puchar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and start browsing. :) I just installed the newest XFce today, and wow, it's nice. Very fast. I don't compared to KDE - for sure fast. I know that. Obviously something like XFce is going to be faster than KDE. What I meant, as I explained later, is that it's even faster on my box than IceWM. If I were a better programmer I'd backwards engineer it without all the hooks into KDE stuff, nice idea. hopefully text-mode pine is fine for me, quick and can be configured to run right programs to view attachment (like xv to view .jpg, gif etc.) I've used Pine a great deal in the past. Right now I receive far too much email, which I need to be able to access quickly in ways that Pine can't do as well for me. I need a complex folder tree and HTML view (though HTML is often not necessary in email, but I can't educate everyone else why), quick access to many accounts and mail protocols within the same client, and many other tools, or at least it makes email much more efficient for me to have it all in one place. I've tried duplicating what I need in Pine and other text clients with other tools, but it never works as efficiently as a GUI client with the right tools built in. One day I'll write my own, though, without as much overhead as KMail or just clean that one up. - jt ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 07:57:26 -0700 Joshua Tinnin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've used Pine a great deal in the past. Right now I receive far too much email, which I need to be able to access quickly in ways that Pine can't do as well for me. I need a complex folder tree and HTML view (though HTML is often not necessary in email, but I can't educate everyone else why), quick access to many accounts and mail protocols within the same client, and many other tools, or at least it makes email much more efficient for me to have it all in one place. I've tried duplicating what I need in Pine and other text clients with other tools, but it never works as efficiently as a GUI client with the right tools built in. One day I'll write my own, though, without as much overhead as KMail or just clean that one up. If you want to use kmail under XFce, just find which menu you want to put it under, click add and set it to run kmail :) For mail, I am fond of sylpheed-claws myself :) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 11:41 am, Vulpes Velox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to use kmail under XFce, just find which menu you want to put it under, click add and set it to run kmail :) Yeah, already done, but thanks. Next, I'm planning on checking out the goodies ... most are probably not necessary for me, though I'd like to have network/system load indicators on the panel. For mail, I am fond of sylpheed-claws myself :) Ah, I've heard good things about it but haven't installed it. I like the fact that it's GTK+ based, but IIRC when considering it in the past, there were a couple things it didn't have that KMail did, and I needed them, though that may have changed since then. Will have to give it a whirl soon ... - jt ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 11:51:44 -0700 Joshua Tinnin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 21 July 2004 11:41 am, Vulpes Velox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want to use kmail under XFce, just find which menu you want to put it under, click add and set it to run kmail :) Yeah, already done, but thanks. Next, I'm planning on checking out the goodies ... most are probably not necessary for me, though I'd like to have network/system load indicators on the panel. For mail, I am fond of sylpheed-claws myself :) Ah, I've heard good things about it but haven't installed it. I like the fact that it's GTK+ based, but IIRC when considering it in the past, there were a couple things it didn't have that KMail did, and I needed them, though that may have changed since then. Will have to give it a whirl soon ... Cool, what where those. Just looking at a list of features in kmail. I don't really see any thing not in sylpheed-claws. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
Dear Chris, I'm sure you'll get a lot of answers to this one, but I'll dive in. First off, I guess you mean Xwindows, not Windows X. Xwindows by itself is basic - you need a window manager to make it look nice. FreeBSD comes with a few good ones. Most people who want bells and whistles use KDE, which is included on the FreeBSD install CD. For each user (maybe you just have one), put a file in their home directory called .xinitrc with this content: exec startkde That will do it. There are other window managers, some of which are might lighter weight (thus faster) than KDE, even if not as pretty. For example, if you wanted fvwm, then file .xinitrc would have this content: exec fvwm This will only work, of course, if you've installed fvwm (it's also on the FreeBSD install CD). By the way, all of the above applies to Linux as well, this is not just a FreeBSD thing. best regards, Robert On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:55:05 -0500 Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a new user to FreeBSD. Is Windows X an extremely basic windows program. I loaded your CD that I purchased from Microcenter onto my computer and I was not able to see anything except a very primitive windows program. If this is what is then I'm fine with it, but if there is more how can I get to it? Thank You for you Time, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 13:55:05 -0500 Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am a new user to FreeBSD. Is Windows X an extremely basic windows program. I loaded your CD that I purchased from Microcenter onto my computer and I was not able to see anything except a very primitive windows program. If this is what is then I'm fine with it, but if there is more how can I get to it? there is most definitely both more functionality and eye candy available than what you're probably seeing right now. since you're new to freebsd (and, presumably, unix in general), you're going to want to spend quite a bit of time reading. searching through the following sources will probably yield the richest results: o the freebsd handbook (perhaps the best OS handbook out there): - http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html - you also have a copy locally installed at /usr/share/doc/handbook. o the freebsd-questions mailing list archive: - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/ o google o any books you may have purchased. regarding your question, i would recommend starting off with the handbook section on X: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11.html note that the handbook only touches upon 3 of the better known window managers/desktop environments. if you're looking for something that won't be too disorienting (say you're coming from windows or mac), try KDE or GNOME. these are full blown desktop enviroments (applications, games, etc) and HUGE installations. there are scads of other window managers out there and these vary greatly in size and functionality. with a little time and experimentation, you'll eventually find the one that best suits your needs. about format for mailing list questions: o many people reading and replying here use tools that don't react quite the same way as outlook express. your messages with reach the greatest amount of readers while causing these the least amount of grief, if you 'wrap' your messages at around 75 characters. (either through a setting in your mail client or by simply hitting return every now and then) o you may find this article helpful -- http://www.lemis.com/questions.html hope this helps and welcome to freebsd. cheers, epi Thank You for you Time, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
following sources will probably yield the richest results: o the freebsd handbook (perhaps the best OS handbook out there): - http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html - you also have a copy locally installed at /usr/share/doc/handbook. o the freebsd-questions mailing list archive: - http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/ o google o any books you may have purchased. at least in Poland, i would recommend agains buying a book. just waste of money, as they won't give any more information that listed URLs, while some of them can give lot of informational noise - mostly books about Linux. and there's very little literature available on other unices than linux. regarding your question, i would recommend starting off with the handbook section on X: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/x11.html note that the handbook only touches upon 3 of the better known window managers/desktop environments. if you're looking for something that won't be too disorienting (say you're coming from windows or mac), try KDE or GNOME. these are full blown desktop enviroments (applications, games, etc) and HUGE installations. i think it is very disorienting, as they try to be windows-like, and like windows it take user away from actual knowledge as it can. if you really wan't to learn unix, stay away of KDE and Gnome (while you may like to use some apps from them). there are scads of other window managers out there and these vary greatly in size and functionality. with a little time and experimentation, you'll eventually find the one that best suits your needs. i recommend you icewm windows manager with icepref configurator for it. good for beginner while fast, small, configurable. And it's actually mostly window manager, without lots of gadgets. about format for mailing list questions: o many people reading and replying here use tools that don't react quite the same way as outlook express. your messages with reach the greatest amount of readers while causing these the least amount of grief, if you 'wrap' your messages at around 75 characters. (either through a setting in i fully agree with this. but i think (not sure) that outlook as most of microsoft products can be configured to behave normally, it's just difficult and usually not well documented. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
space, it does slow down the system, and more software means potentially more security vulnerabilities. just having X running doesn't seem to slow down system. only using slow and memory hungry software may do it. but i don't see anything wrong in having X on server if it's used as workstation at the same time. if it's started from XDM you may remove suid so no security risk. -nolisten tcp for X server will turn off listening on TCP port - removing rest of possible security problems. If you decide you must run a GUI because you are unfamiliar with CLI or you just like them better pick one of the lighter weight window managers. Yes, they are boring but you do not need a fancy desktop on a Server. anyway why run X server just to run then Xterm and some commands to configure services? understand wanting to have a cool desktop. KDE is very popular as well as GNOME. You can see screenshots on their respective websites. KDE and GNOME is an attempt to replace/look like windows. quite successful - not only in look, but in memory usage, CPU usage, amount of bugs, and level of unneeded complexity, allowing user ONLY use GUI configs to do something. i think that if someone needs something like windows, windows is best choice. KDE has a cool feature that if set up allows you to pick your window manager on login (mind you this causes KDE and X windows to be running at this is not KDE feature as all, just kdm (xdm replacement). you may use gdm and possibly other xdm replacements to do it, without need to install KDE. The community can correct me if I am wrong but applications built for KDE will run fine on GNOME and vice versa. I think they just may not look as this is not true. most GNOME apps just use GTK2 and run without gnome itself fine. they are NOT dependent on any window manager, as GNOME itself. gimp is an example - i use it with fvwm2. works like any other X app. With KDE apps it's not true. while lot of KDE apps does work without KDE, they actually starts up some daemons taking 20MB RAM to function. this daemons doesn't die by itself after exiting from that apps and take quite amount of CPU time even if you don't do anything, just have app running. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 08:37:13PM -0400, Robert Storey said: Dear Chris, I'm sure you'll get a lot of answers to this one, but I'll dive in. First off, I guess you mean Xwindows, not Windows X. No. It's not called X Windows. As quoted from the X11 man page: The X Consortium requests that the following names be used when referring to this software: X X Window System X Version 11 X Window System, Version 11 X11 X Window System is a trademark of X Consortium, Inc. Cheers, Adam -- Adam Smith Internode : http://www.internode.on.net Phone : (08) 8228 2999 Dog for sale: Eats lots and is fond of children. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Windows X
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 11:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Joshua Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DESKTOP: If you are planning on this being a desktop replacement then I can fully understand wanting to have a cool desktop. KDE is very popular as well as GNOME. You can see screenshots on their respective websites. KDE has a cool feature that if set up allows you to pick your window manager on login (mind you this causes KDE and X windows to be running at all times). This would require reading chapter 5 in the FreeBSD Handbook. This is arguably you greatest source of FreeBSD information. It is a short chapter to read but does explain quite a lot. I myself had to read the chapter more then once before I fully understood it. Now I feel very comfortable using X. No expert but I feel very comfortable. I suggest something lighter, but easily configurable. Try XFCE, Fluxbox, Windowmaker, or the like. There are many window managers avialable. To find the list just go to http://www.freebsd.org/ports/x11-wm.html and start browsing. :) The community can correct me if I am wrong but applications built for KDE will run fine on GNOME and vice versa. I think they just may not look as pretty as they use different API's or something. They still work they just need their associated libraries and you are good. Therefore, if you fall in love with the KOFFICE application but prefer the GNOME desktop, I don't think there is a problem with that (you can also install OPENOFFICE.). Of course they will run fine, they just require thier correct dependencies installed. ^_^ BTW freshmeat.net has a large selection of themes aviable if you want to find alternatives to what the ports provide. :) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
