More than just logging, Re: JFS
* Gary Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [000130 22:55] wrote: > Tom wrote in message ID > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On Sun, 30 Jan 2000, Daniel C. Sobral wrote: > > > > > > Due to the lack of interest, FreeBSD's LFS has fallen into disrepair > > > > over the years. With the implementation of softupdates in FreeBSD I > > > > don't think there is any need for LFS any more. > > > > > > Repeat that over and over the next time you wait fsck finish a 40 Gb > > > filesystem checkup, and see if you manage to convince yourself of that. > > > > Actually, one of the goals of the softupdates development is a fsck'less > > filesystem. I'm not sure how this is to be achieved. Probably a metadata > > journal, though that is just speculation. All the work on metadata update > > ordering in softupdates would probably apply very nicely to a journal. > > The way I understand it is that SoftUpdates is meant to leave the > metadata consistant enough that the filesystem can be mounted > read/write immediately at boot, and then have a background fsck go > through and remove blocks which are allocated in the bitmaps, but > aren't really used. The only thing you lose by not running the > background daemon is space. I don't think anyone's running like this > today, but that is Kirks plan. (This is me (hopefully accurately) repeating something that Terry Lambert brought to my attention, credit where credit is due. The safe-shutdown is my rambling on about a solution.) Why logging filesystems don't work: You generally (with the hardware available in PCs now) can't tell the difference between: 1) loss of power (ok!) 2) crash where the filesystem datastructures weren't corrupted (ok!) 3) crash where the filesystem datastructures were corrupted (ouch) 4) crash where the disk/bus got scrambled (ouch) the problems with 3 and 4 really make a logging filesystem a "shot in the dark" because you never know if "safe" areas on the disk really are safe because there was a chance for corruption. How do you know that a bug in some other code didn't trounce on the filesystem's data and write to a spot that's supposedly "committed"? Since you generally can't tell between 1,2,3 and 4 you really ought to fsck in the background anyway. Good news: afaik Kirk is working on this capability! Bad news: people running depending on _only_ logging are kidding themselves. Mini-fix for this problem: Providing safe shutdown points for the filesystem, if something "weird" is found, disable further access to that file/directory or possibly shutdown the entire filesystem. Basically instead of panic'ing when invalid structures are read from disk, just disallow further access to the objects. patches anyone? :) -- -Alfred Perlstein - [[EMAIL PROTECTED]|[EMAIL PROTECTED]] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: My sa0 stopped working on upgrade
At 01:22 AM 1/31/2000 -0600, Soren Dayton wrote: >The major and minor numbers are correct (and I did a MAKEDEV). But, >if I try to just check on things: > > $ mt stat > mt: /dev/nrsa0: Device not configured > >Anyone have any ideas? Does this ring any bells? What on earth did I Yes, I saw this behaviour as well somewhere along the lines of tracking STABLE. Although I get the above error message when there is no tape in the drive, it does work fine for me. Both with sa0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 sa0: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa0: 10.000MB/s transfers (10.000MHz, offset 7) and my sa0 at ahc0 bus 0 target 0 lun 0 sa0: Removable Sequential Access SCSI-2 device sa0: 7.812MB/s transfers (7.812MHz, offset 15) ---Mike To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: JFS
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Daniel C. Sobral" writes: > Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group wrote: > > > > 4.4BSD has something like JFS, LFS (Log Structured Filesystem). LFS > > developed from a paper by John Ousterhout, the same fellow who > > developed Tcl & Tk. All other log structured filesystems, JFS, AdvFS, > > Veritas Filesystem, are based on Ousterhout's work. > > A journalled structured filesystem is NOT a log structured filesystem. I stand corrected on this point. > > > Due to the lack of interest, FreeBSD's LFS has fallen into disrepair > > over the years. With the implementation of softupdates in FreeBSD I > > don't think there is any need for LFS any more. > > Repeat that over and over the next time you wait fsck finish a 40 Gb > filesystem checkup, and see if you manage to convince yourself of that. Read the CVS logs and tell me how you could interpret the comments any differently: 1.21 Fri Jan 30 11:33:40 1998 UTC by phk CVS Tags: HEAD Diffs to 1.20 FILE REMOVED Retire LFS. If you want to play with it, you can find the final version of the code in the repository the tag LFS_RETIREMENT. If somebody makes LFS work again, adding it back is certainly desireable, but as it is now nobody seems to care much about it, and it has suffered considerable bitrot since its somewhat haphazard integration. R.I.P Obviously you don't know what you're talking about either. Do you? Regards, Phone: (250)387-8437 Cy Schubert Fax: (250)387-5766 Sun/DEC Team, UNIX GroupInternet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ITSD Province of BC "COBOL IS A WASTE OF CARDS." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: JFS
Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > Due to the lack of interest, FreeBSD's LFS has fallen into disrepair > > > over the years. With the implementation of softupdates in FreeBSD I > > > don't think there is any need for LFS any more. > > > > Repeat that over and over the next time you wait fsck finish a 40 Gb > > filesystem checkup, and see if you manage to convince yourself of that. > > Read the CVS logs and tell me how you could interpret the comments any > differently: > > 1.21 Fri Jan 30 11:33:40 1998 UTC by phk > CVS Tags: HEAD > Diffs to 1.20 > FILE REMOVED > > Retire LFS. > > If you want to play with it, you can find the final version of the > code in the repository the tag LFS_RETIREMENT. > > If somebody makes LFS work again, adding it back is certainly > desireable, but as it is now nobody seems to care much about it, > and it has suffered considerable bitrot since its somewhat haphazard > integration. > > R.I.P > > Obviously you don't know what you're talking about either. Do you? I do know. The main reason why LFS was never updated isn't that it was made obsolete by softupdates, as claimed above, but that it was made obsolete by JFS. Why work on LFS if it is not up to a JFS? Unfortunately, the people who have to suffer enourmous waits after crashes usually have way more to do, even if they have the skills to fix LFS. With the disks getting bigger and bigger, this is due to change. BTW, NetBSD is happy with _their_ _functional_ LFS. -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "If you consider our help impolite, you should see the manager." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Dummynet changes with latest STABLE ?
Hi, Since upgrading to the latest STABLE this morning, dummynet is complaining with a series of dolomite /kernel: -- dummynet: warning, event is 1 ticks late I was running with a version from 40 days ago prior to upgrading this morning. I have options "ICMP_BANDLIM" options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #print information about # dropped packets options IPFIREWALL_FORWARD #enable xparent proxy support options "IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE_LIMIT=25000" #limit verbosity options IPDIVERT#divert sockets options DUMMYNET options HZ=1000 My dummynet rules are as follows $fwcmd add 100 pass all from any to any via lo0 $fwcmd add 200 deny all from any to 127.0.0.0/8 $fwcmd pipe 1 config bw 512Kbit/s $fwcmd pipe 2 config bw 8Mbit/s $fwcmd add 500 pipe 1 ip from any to 206.51.23.192/28 $fwcmd add 510 pipe 1 ip from 206.51.23.192/28 to any $fwcmd add 1000 allow ip from 209.112.4.32/27 to any $fwcmd add 1100 allow ip from 207.245.212.128/28 to any $fwcmd add 1110 allow ip from 205.211.164.81 to any $fwcmd add 1200 deny log tcp from any to 207.245.238.168 23 $fwcmd add 620 pipe 2 ip from 207.245.238.173 to any $fwcmd add 621 pipe 2 ip from any 207.245.238.173 $fwcmd add 622 pipe 2 ip from any to 207.245.238.173 $fwcmd add 623 pipe 2 ip from 207.245.238.179 to any $fwcmd add 624 pipe 2 ip from any to 207.245.238.179 $fwcmd add 625 pipe 2 ip from any to 207.245.238.185 $fwcmd add 626 pipe 2 ip from 207.245.238.185 to any ---Mike Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator,[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: More than just logging, Re: JFS
Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Bad news: people running depending on _only_ logging are kidding themselves. Yeah. Funny how they have been doing so without getting bitten, eh? -- Daniel C. Sobral(8-DCS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] "If you consider our help impolite, you should see the manager." To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: i810 Kernel module for XFree86 3.3.6.
Carl Makin wrote: > > Has anybody played around with porting the agpgart.o Linux kernel module > to FreeBSD 3.4? > > Unfortunately I'm not up to the port myself however I'll help with testing > it if anyone else is doing it! > We had to reject five i810e-based PCs because they wasn't capable of running FreeBSD + XFree86 3.3.6. (Of course, I warned about that, but someone chose the cheaper model "with 133 MHz bus" -- when it runs at 100 MHz with a PIII 500!). Personally, I decided to boycott the i810 chipset. I am absolutely opposed to chipsets including graphics and audio controllers. And IMHO now Intel Corp. attacks the makers of graphics and audio cards, imposing [even] more restrictions on our freedom of choice in the PC market. Rats. -- JMA --- José Mª Alcaide | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Universidad del País Vasco | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dpto. de Electricidad y Electrónica | http://www.we.lc.ehu.es/~jose Facultad de Ciencias - Campus de Lejona | Tel.: +34-946012479 48940 Lejona (Vizcaya) - SPAIN | Fax: +34-946013071 --- "Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers" -- Leonard Brandwein To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: i810 Kernel module for XFree86 3.3.6.
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Jose M. Alcaide wrote: > Personally, I decided to boycott the i810 chipset. I am absolutely > opposed to chipsets including graphics and audio controllers. And IMHO > now Intel Corp. attacks the makers of graphics and audio cards, > imposing [even] more restrictions on our freedom of choice in the > PC market. Rats. While you might happily boycott these chipsets because of some moral standpoint, unfortunately some of the newer combined motherboards are so cheap we can expect to see them in a lot of low end PC's shortly, if not already. There's one board I've seen , that has a 56k modem, 3d (4channel) sound, agp video (8mb ram) and 100mbs network all onboard. (granted it's not i810) It costs about the same as most other boards with none of these features. I think the board I'm thinking of is made by "chips and technologies" but I could be wrong there. So, although many of us here might agree with your sentiment, standing up to it is analagous to trying to blow a hurricane back from where it came. If the technology goes this way it might be best to have support for it in FreeBSD. And although we might not like the way it's going should I still be poor student trying to learn unix again, that would probably be the board I'd have to buy, and it would be nice to think I could expect it to work with my OS choice. Steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
RE: More than just logging, Re: JFS
> Why logging filesystems don't work: > > You generally (with the hardware available in PCs now) > can't tell the difference between: > > 1) loss of power (ok!) > 2) crash where the filesystem datastructures weren't corrupted (ok!) > 3) crash where the filesystem datastructures were corrupted (ouch) > 4) crash where the disk/bus got scrambled (ouch) Nice analysis. I have a vague memory (I can't seem to find the message in the archives) of somebody on -current talking about a proposal for a log device that emitted events from the filesystem. Something like that and a WORM might make a reliable logging filesystem. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
PANIC
After make buildworld and make installworld... Everything looks fine until loading of final daemons.. FATAL TRAP 12: pagefault in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0x45058 fault code = supervisor read, page not present current process = 117 (mountd) All I can do it reboot... HELP! I can still login in single-user mode... To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: PANIC
At 05:55 PM 1/29/00 +0100, you wrote: >After make buildworld and make installworld... > >Everything looks fine until loading of final daemons.. > >FATAL TRAP 12: pagefault in kernel mode >fault virtual address = 0x45058 >fault code = supervisor read, page not present >current process = 117 (mountd) > >All I can do it reboot... > >HELP! > >I can still login in single-user mode... You didnt mention it, but did you rebuild and install your kernel as well ? ---Mike Mike Tancsa, tel +1 519 651 3400 Network Administrator,[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sentex Communications www.sentex.net Cambridge, Ontario Canada To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: PANIC
> At 05:55 PM 1/29/00 +0100, you wrote: > >After make buildworld and make installworld... > > > >Everything looks fine until loading of final daemons.. > > > >FATAL TRAP 12: pagefault in kernel mode > >fault virtual address = 0x45058 > >fault code = supervisor read, page not present > >current process = 117 (mountd) > > > >All I can do it reboot... > > > >HELP! > > > >I can still login in single-user mode... > > You didnt mention it, but did you rebuild and install your kernel as well ? Yes, I did... (before booting after make installworld) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
