Re: FreeBSD 13/stable and zpool upgrade

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 10:26:15PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Kurt Jaeger, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> We do not need it automated. We need it to be described in enough
> detail that we can write that BOOTx64.efi to the proper place. If
> there are some steps to find out where to write it etc., fine.
> Describe those steps.

As a data point, years ago I started dropping a rewrite-bootcode.sh
script in /boot on all my systems, 'cuz I could never offhand remember
how to do it so I kept putting it off.  And I updated a variant of it
for EFI.

e.g., on one system BIOS-booting system, /boot/rewrite-bootcode.sh:

--
#!/bin/sh -x
for i in /dev/nda0 /dev/nda1; do
gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptzfsboot -i 1 ${i}
done
--


And on an EFI system,

--
#!/bin/sh -ex
bd="/mnt/EFI/BOOT"

for i in gpt/efi0 gpt/efi1; do
mount -t msdosfs /dev/${i} /mnt
cp /boot/boot1.efi ${bd}/BOOTX64.EFI
echo "BOOTX64.EFI" > ${bd}/STARTUP.NSH
umount /mnt
done
--


Another variant I have on my workstation (which doesn't EFI boot 'cuz
DRM, but can, so I'm pretty sure the script works right),

-
#!/bin/sh
cd `dirname $0`

SRC="loader.efi"

for i in 0 1; do
mount /mnt/efi${i}
DSTDIR="/mnt/efi${i}/efi/boot"
mkdir -p ${DSTDIR}
DST="${DSTDIR}/BOOTx64.efi"
if(!(cmp ${SRC} ${DST})); then
echo "$DST: Updating"
cp -p ${SRC} ${DST}
else
echo "${DST}: Up to date already"
fi
umount /mnt/efi${i}
done
-
% grep efi /etc/fstab
/dev/gpt/nefi0 /mnt/efi0 msdosfs rw,noauto,-g0,-m770 0 0
/dev/gpt/nefi1 /mnt/efi1 msdosfs rw,noauto,-g0,-m770 0 0
-

(and yes, when I wrote these, just _figuring_ _out_ WTF EFI wanted and
where it wanted it was _incredibly_ frustrating...)


Of course, those all take manual setup for each system, to know the
devices or labels, and with EFI, to either manually mount or setup
fstab entries for whatever partition[s] apply.  But at least I get to
do it once, when I setup the system, and presumably know what I just
did, rather than trying to remember years later while sitting at the
console of a system I need to finish the update of and get back up and
running.  This way I know I can just `cd /boot ; ./rew` after
installworld and be done with it:)


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Re: buildworld errors at outset on fresh svn checkout

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Oct 07, 2016 at 10:13:02PM -0700 I heard the voice of
Kevin Oberman, and lo! it spake thus:
> On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 10:16 PM, Scott Bennett  wrote:
> 
> > "/usr/src/Makefile.inc1", line 1113: Malformed conditional
> > (${BUILDKERNELS:[)
> > Unknown modifier '['
> 
> '[' needs to be a hard link to test.

This is make, not sh.

That would be the line

.if ${BUILDKERNELS:[#]} > 1 && ${NO_INSTALLEXTRAKERNELS} != "yes"

in current stable/10, and it's horking on the [...] modifier.  That's
listed in the make manpage on a stable/10 system from last October, so
it's not terribly new.  Maybe an ancient make?  Or your 'make' isn't
the make it's expecting?


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Re: sed command does not behave equal from 10.3 to 11.0

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 09:45:23AM +0100 I heard the voice of
krad, and lo! it spake thus:
> are you sure you aren't hitting a port or something?

Locale dependant.

% echo "abc_ABC.def" | env LANG=C sed -e 's/[^A-Z0-9]//g'
ABC

% echo "abc_ABC.def" | env LANG=en_US.UTF-8 sed -e 's/[^A-Z0-9]//g'
bcABCdef

(pre-branch -CURRENT)


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Re: Have I got this VIMAGE setup correct?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 12:05:07PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Garrett Wollman, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> The consensus when I asked seemed to be that VIMAGE+jail was the
> right combination to give every container its own private loopback
> interface, so I tried to build that.  I noticed a few things:

I've got a server running a dozen or so VIMAGE jails, so I can at
least chime in a little...


> 1) The kernel prints out a warning message at boot time that VIMAGE
> is "highly experimental".  Should I be concerned about running this
> in production?

It hasn't blown up anything for me yet.


> 2) Stopping jails with virtual network stacks generates warnings from
> UMA about memory being leaked.

I'm given to understand that's Known, and presumably Not Quite Trivial
To Fix.  Since I'm not starting/stopping jails repeatedly as a normal
runtime thing, I'm ignoring it.  If you were spinning jails up and
down dynamically dozens of times a day, I'd want to look more closely
at just what is leaking and why...


> 3) It wasn't clear (or documented anywhere that I could see) how to
> get the host network set up properly.  Obviously I'm not going to
> have a vlan for every single jail, so it seemed like what most
> people were doing was "bridge" along with a bunch of "epair"
> interfaces.  I ended up with the following:

Is what I'm doing, though I'm creating the epair's and adding them to
the bridges in the setup script rather than rc.conf (exec.prestart in
jail.conf), because that makes it a more manageable IME, and since I'm
already doing a bunch of setup in the script anyway...


> In each of the jails I have to manually configure a MAC address
> using /etc/start_if.epairNb to ensure that it's globally unique, but
> then everything seems to work.

I hardcode (well, dynamically generated hardcoded) MAC addresses on
the epair's in the setup script, since
 bit me hard
when I was first setting it up.


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Re: make buildworld is now 50% slower

[Matthew D. Fuller]

Apropos of nothing, but...

On Sun, Jul 07, 2013 at 03:17:14AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> WITHOUT_LIB32=true

suggests you're running amd64, which I'm pretty sure means

> - I do increase kern.maxdsiz, kern.dfldsiz, and kern.maxssiz in
> /boot/loader.conf to 2560M/2560M/256M respectively, but that was mainly
> from the days when I ran MySQL and needed a huge userland processes.

are not necessarily _in_creases, and may well be mostly _de_creases.
e.g., on a RELENG_9 box with 8 gig of physical RAM:

% sysctl kern.{max{d,s},dfld}siz
kern.maxdsiz: 34359738368
kern.maxssiz: 536870912
kern.dfldsiz: 134217728

while a -CURRENT box with 16 has dfldsiz blown all the way up too.  I
don't recall doing anything to change them at all recently, and a
glance over loader.conf, sysctl.conf, rc.local, and the kernel configs
doesn't turn up anything.


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Re: shutdown -r / shutdown -h / reboot all hang and don't cleanly dismount

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 09:52:00AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Justified in your environment, but not in mine -- where most of my
> systems (at home) are extremely quiet (1000-1200rpm fans, lots of
> noise dampening material, etc.).  A 10C increase *during idle* is
> enough to make me wary.

Mmm.  Well, some of them are in 1U cases, and so behind very loud
little fans (but that's in a datacenter where *I* don't have to hear
it).  But the ones sitting beside me are behind <1kRPM fans (80 and
120 mm), and are around 28-30c (which is a tad high; the filters are
overdue for cleaning).  And ambient is probably 24-25.  I'd be
seriously creeped out if an *active* drive were 10 over ambient, much
less if flipping some config setting moved anything 10.

(this is also why I _hate_ laptops...)


> On the other hand, their forum was *filled* with post after post
> about the issue, including one fellow whose drive in something like
> 3 months was almost reaching MTBF head park/reload count.

Oh, sure.  If you don't get the stupid things to stop, you can measure
their life with an egg timer.  The 400-some these drives got before I
turned APM off happened in, like, an afternoon.


> If you had what I do (moderate-to-severe IBS), you'd know that it
> definitely doesn't get passed back in a more concentrated form.
> First joke I've been able to make about my health condition, yeah!

Well, if your diet consists of hard drive manufacturer's souls, it's
no wonder your system got all screwed up!  You gotta find something to
eat with more moral fiber!;p


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Re: shutdown -r / shutdown -h / reboot all hang and don't cleanly dismount

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 09:16:35AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> The above CDB + subcommand disables APM entirely.  There is a lot
> more to APM than just parking heads (and in all honesty, APM should
> have nothing to do with parking heads).  Disabling APM can actually
> have drastic effects on drive temperature (meaning there are certain
> chip and/or motor operations that said feature controls *in
> addition* to head parking), and other firmware-level features that
> aren't documented.

True enough, in concept.  With all the drives sitting behind
ventilation perfectly capable of dealing with 15kRPM drives, I don't
worry about what that might do to the 7200's though...


> Furthermore, that CDB does not work for all drives.  There are
> Seagate drives -- I know because I bought some and returned them
> when the APM trick did not work -- that lack the LCC-disable tie-in
> to APM.  The drive either rejected the CDB (ATA status code error
> returned), while others accepted it but nothing in 0xec (IDENTIFY)
> reported as got changed.

Well, I haven't seen it with these.  Several of
ada0:  ATA-8 SATA 3.x device
and some systems with CC4C too.


> I will have -- and eat -- their souls.

The problem with that is that the undigestible bits of "soul" just get
passed right back into the ecosystem, and in a more concentrated form.

Some might suggest that's already happened, and is got us here in the
first place  8-}


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Re: shutdown -r / shutdown -h / reboot all hang and don't cleanly dismount

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 08:04:14AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> 
> Readers: if any of you have a ST[123]000DM001 drive running the CC24
> firmware, and can confirm high head parking counts (SMART attribute
> 193), and are willing to upgrade your drive firmware to the latest then
> see if the LCC increments stop (or at least settle down to normal
> levels), I'd love to hear from you.  I have been socially boycotting
> these models of drives because of that idiotic firmware design choice
> for quite some time now (not to mention the parking on those drives
> is audibly loud in a normal living room), and if the F/W actually
> inhibits the excessive parking then I have some drives to consider
> upgrading.  :-)
> 

I dunno about firmware, but you can smack 'em with a big hammer...

/etc/rc.local:
for i in 0 1; do
/sbin/camcontrol cmd ada${i} -a "EF 85 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00"
done

x-ref:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2009-November/052997.html


LCC was somewhere in the upper 400's (I wanna say 480-some?) a year
and change ago when I dropped that in.  It's 506/493 now on the two
drives.


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Re: What is the Right Way(™) to run X?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:37:08PM +1030 I heard the voice of
Daniel O'Connor, and lo! it spake thus:
> Hi,
> I recently updated my 9.1-PRE system's ports and my previous X
> config now results in no mouse (but the keyboard does work).
> 
> I found that I needed to add the following..
> Section "ServerFlags"
> Option  "AllowEmptyInput" "False"
> EndSection

I think general wisdom is that AEI is a Bad Idea for various reasons
that I don't remember, but seemed reasonable when I read them.

However, some time back, X _did_ start being all stupid about finding
the mouse for me.  Un/re-plugging it (USB) after starting X made it
show up working, but that's annoying and stupid (and not an option on
other systems with e.g. PS/2 meece).  I wound up sticking the "other
half" of that oft-cargo-culted incantation:

Section "ServerFlags"
Option "AutoAddDevices" "off"
EndSection

in my config, and it's worked OK since.  's probably worth a try...


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Re: amdtemp does not find my CPU.

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 08:04:04PM -0400 I heard the voice of
ill...@gmail.com, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Just an aside (as I note you've got it nailed down), but AFIK the E-450
> is a K-10 core not a K-8.

None of the above.  E-450 is a Bobcat.


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Re: branch 9 and uefi

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 05:37:01PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Zoran Kolic, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Hurrah! I shall get a bit cheaper version, plain m5a97 or pro.

AFAIK, the only difference between the plain M5A97 and the Evo is that
the Evo has better VRM's.  If you're overclocking a 125w CPU, it's
definitely worth it; otherwise, probably not so much.

(I'm not, but I like headroom  ;)


> Let me ask you further. What option you chose during install?

Well, I'm running disks I was running in another system before.  I
installed them by having a running system on another disk, then
setting them up manually from there.  I'm kinda particular...


> Further, what ram did you put on the board? It proved to be picky
> regarding memory.

I'm running a Kingston KVR1600D3E11SK4/16G set.

http://www.amazon.com/Kingston-ValueRAM-1600MHz-KVR1600D3E11SK4-16G/dp/B007N9056A/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=3E7FYCA8C0KHE&coliid=I29FFUTSMXJ5YN

No problems with it.  But I wouldn't expect any.  Kingston's always
been good for me on the one side, and I really haven't seen near the
problems out of the boards some people have.  I suspect there's a
heavy contingent of people pushing weird bleeding-edge memory speeds
and failing...


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Re: branch 9 and uefi

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 06:08:31PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Zoran Kolic, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> It took me by surprise. The mobo I have on my mind for new desktop
> has uefi instead of bios. It is asus m5a97, with 970 chipset, well
> priced among users on the net.  How would it behave with 9.1?

I'm running a M5A97 Evo just fine on -CURRENT, and I'd be shocked it
it had any problem with 9 (or 8 or 7, for that matter).


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Re: less and vi fail on file whose name begins with +

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 01:03:30AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Thomas Mueller, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Has anybody noticed this bug?

It's not a bug really; both can take an argument starting with '+' for
various things.


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Re: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5470

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 05:40:26PM -0700 I heard the voice of
Sean Bruno, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I don't know if anyone responded to your question here.  I suspect
> that the latest updates to xorg that have occured in freebsd will
> support your video card.

That's an Evergreen.  UMS support is going to be very skimpy.



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Re: /usr/bin/unzip not being installed on 8.3-STABLE

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 04:39:40PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Jason Hellenthal, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Funny... so there are probably alot of machines running around with
> old unzip binaries... including the already packaged releases.

No, they wouldn't have _any_ unzip binaries.


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Re: /usr/bin/unzip not being installed on 8.3-STABLE

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 04:24:32PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Jason Hellenthal, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I have just noticed the following depicting unzip not being
> updated/installed during a make installworld.

>From a quick look at history, unzip was never connected to the build
in 8.x, only 9.x+ (r200068, Dec 2009).


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Re: ports index on FreeBSD 9

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 02:23:05PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Matthew Seaman, and lo! it spake thus:
> On 11/10/2011 12:31, George Kontostanos wrote:
> 
> > I was wondering if there is any progress regarding the
> > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=149232 .
> 
> Nope.  But you can just do 'make fetchindex' to get INDEX-9 now.
> Or build your own.

I always (with -CURRENT) just ln -s the INDEX-$LATEST over to
INDEX-$THIS.  Should generally be close enough.


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Re: Heads up: you'll need to do a fresh "config KERNEL" etc

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 07:44:25AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Rick Macklem, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> I thought that "config KERNEL" is what does that, but if buildkernel
> does, then "config KERNEL" isn't needed.

buildkernel always starts with a fresh 'config KERNEL' (unless you
-DNO_KERNELCONFIG explicitly).


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Re: buildworld FAIL.

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 05:52:47AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
> On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 09:04:42AM +0200, Pawel Tyll wrote:
> > So was NO_OPENSSL deprecated or something?
> 
> I think he's implying that hast indirectly relies upon OpenSSL.

There's some conditionalization on MK_OPENSSL in the Makefile (and via
that, in the code), but it's incomplete.  Whether that means it
_should_ be buildable without OpenSSL and is just insufficiently
tested, or whether it really just flat needs OpenSSL and the
conditionalization is vestigial, I don't know.  pjd@ cc'd.


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Re: buildworld FAIL.

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 02:25:01AM +0200 I heard the voice of
Pawel Tyll, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> /usr/src/sbin/hastctl/../hastd/hast_proto.c:72: error: 'checksum_send' 
> undeclared here (not in a function)
> /usr/src/sbin/hastctl/../hastd/hast_proto.c:72: error: 'checksum_recv' 
> undeclared here (not in a function)

[...]

> NO_OPENSSL=true

NO_OPENSSL, no -DHAVE_CRYPTO.  No -DHAVE_CRYPTO, no #include
hast_checksum.h.


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Re: ZFS - moving from a zraid1 to zraid2 pool with 1.5tb disks

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 03:45:04PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Daniel Kalchev, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> You should also know that having large L2ARC requires that you also
> have larger ARC, because there are data pointers in the ARC that
> point to the L2ARC data. Someone will do good to the community to
> publish some reasonable estimates of the memory needs, so that
> people do not end up with large but unusable L2ARC setups.

Estimates I've read in the past are that L2ARC consumes ARC space at
around 1-2%.


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Re: MCA messages after upgrade to 8.2-BEAT1

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 09:57:26AM -0500 I heard the voice of
John Baldwin, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> You are getting corrected ECC errors in your RAM.

Actually, don't

> CPU 0 0 data cache 
> ADDR 236493c0 
>   Data cache ECC error (syndrome 1c)

> CPU 0 1 instruction cache 
> ADDR 2a1c9440 
>   Instruction cache ECC error

> CPU 0 2 bus unit 
>   L2 cache ECC error

> CPU 1 0 data cache 
> ADDR 23649640 
>   Data cache ECC error (syndrome 1c)

> CPU 1 1 instruction cache 
> ADDR 2a1c9440 
>   Instruction cache ECC error

> CPU 1 2 bus unit 
>   L2 cache ECC error

suggest CPU cache, not RAM?

(that's actually a question; I don't know, but that's what a naive
reading suggests...)


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Re: Panic in ZFS layer on 8.1-STABLE

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:55:40PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Jeremie Le Hen, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I think running a 64 bits kernel would help a lot in that case.
> Unfortunately I don't think my CPU supports the instruction set:

It does.

>   AMD Features=0x2000

LM = Long Mode

All the Core 2's are 64-bit capable.  I think even the Core's were.


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Re: TTY task group scheduling

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 06:23:24PM + I heard the voice of
Alexander Best, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> judging from the videos the changes are having a huge impact imo.

Well, my (admittedly limited, and certainly anecdotal) experience is
that Linux's interactive response when under heavy load was always
much worse than FreeBSD's.  So maybe that's just them catching up to
where we already are   ;)


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Re: Serious zfs slowdown when mixed with another file system (ufs/msdosfs/etc.).

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 03:32:54AM +0200 I heard the voice of
Pieter de Goeje, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Note that I use a single filesystem for / and /usr. Obviously if
> those are separate filesystems more NFS exports and mount commands
> are necessary.  Before the first run all immutable flags need to be
> removed from the target box, otherwise the install will fail (i.e.
> chflags -R noschg /).

That's one reason I always found it easier to go the other way, export
/usr/{src,obj} from the build server, and do the installworld locally
on the boxes in question.  's just simpler that way, when everything
is in its "normal" place.


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Re: kernel MCA messages

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:06:43AM -0400 I heard the voice of
John Baldwin, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> It is actually public at perforce.freebsd.org. :)  However, it is
> tedious to download the files.

Oh, I'd apparently blocked out of my mind that you could clicky-clicky
files one at a time from there.  Probably for the best; I'd be real
annoyed by the end of that   ;)


> You can find a patch at www.freebsd.org/~jhb/mcelog/.  You will also
> need to download the memstream.c file from there as well and put
> that in the extracted mcelog tarball.

Thanks!  For anyone following along at home, I needed to make a few
changes to get it compiling here:

- I'm on a nice recent -CURRENT, so I had to #if 0 out the getline()
  definition.

- Add a FREEBSD definition to the Makefile (or remember it manually).

- Comment out the kread_symbol() of X_SNAPDATE in mcelog.c.  I don't
  see X_SNAPDATE defined anywhere in my /usr/include, and the var
  doesn't seem to ever actually be read for anything anyway (unless
  I'm supposed to -DLOCAL_HACK...).


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Re: kernel MCA messages

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 08:20:35AM -0400 I heard the voice of
John Baldwin, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> It is not private, it is in //depot/projects/mcelog/... in p4.

Which may as well be Siberia for us lowly non-developers.  Any chance
you could stick a tarball or a patch against upstream mcelog
somewhere?


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Re: Powerd and est / eist functionality

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 06:04:51PM -0700 I heard the voice of
John Long, and lo! it spake thus:
>
>> The i3/i5/i7 chips don't appear to offer ECC framework on their
>> memory controllers (which are now on-die as I'm sure you know),
>> which is why I plan to stay away from them for servers.
>
> I agree with your thoughts however I believe one can still use the
> I-series in a p55 board and get the ECC working

Not the case.  To use ECC, the memory controller has to support it.
Nehalem moved the memory controller on-die, and on the non-Xeons, it
doesn't have ECC capability.  You'd have to go Xeon, use prior chips
(with the memory controller on the motherboard) with careful
motherboard selection, or use AMD (where all the chips have ECC in the
IMC, though you still need a little care to be sure your motherboard
doesn't sabotage it).


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Re: ZFS tuning [was: hardware for home use large storage]

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 08:49:38PM -0500 I heard the voice of
jhell, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> As I make final modifications to the script I will keep the below
> URLs updated and welcome any bug reports or modification requests to
> me personally.

Well, here's one:

> OS Revision:  199506

There's no reason to show this; it's just confusing because it'll be
misinterpreted.  kern.osrevision isn't what you probably think it is.
It's just the BSD #define in param.h, which (aside from a blip which
was instantly reverted) last changed in 1996 when the -Lite2 import
was done.


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Re: ntpd struggling to keep up - how to fix?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 11:46:04AM -0800 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Technical footnote: I wish I understood 1) the difference between
> ACPI-safe and ACPI-fast,

AIUI, they're nearly the same thing, and it has to do with some
testing to determine how it can be reliably accessed.  I've had
systems that would sometimes come up with -fast, and other times -safe
(I think one varied depending on cold vs. warm boot for instance).


> and 2) how the system or OS "ranks" the timecounters (the higher the
> value in parenthesis, supposedly the more accurate/preferred it is).

That's easier; TTBOMK, they're hardcoded in the source based on
developer SWAG about their relative expenses and reliabilities and
precisions.


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Re: ntpd struggling to keep up - how to fix?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 05:11:17AM -0800 I heard the voice of
Jeremy Chadwick, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> I highly recommend putting some comments around it though so in the
> future you don't go "What's this? Silly!" and delete it.  ;-)

But do delete it every once in a while.  My experience over the years
is that sometimes a given OS build will do way worse than I'm used to,
whereas a new build a few months later works just peachy.


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Re: hardware for home use large storage

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 04:37:50PM +1030 I heard the voice of
Daniel O'Connor, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Probably the result of idiotic penny pinching though :-/

Irritating.  One of my favorite parts of AMD's amd64 chips is that I
no longer have to spend through the nose or be a detective (or, often,
both) to get ECC.  So far, it seems like there are relatively few
hidden holes on that path, and I haven't stepped in one, but every new
one I hear about increases my terror of the day when there are more
holes than solid ground   :(


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Re: hardware for home use large storage

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 03:56:46PM +1030 I heard the voice of
Daniel O'Connor, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I have something similar (5x1Tb) - I have a Gigabyte GA-MA785GM-US2H
> with an Athlon X2 and 4Gb of RAM (only half filled - 2x2Gb)
>
> [...]
>
> Note that it doesn't support ECC, I don't know if that is a problem.

How's that?  Is the BIOS just stupid, or is the board physically
missing traces?


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Re: 7.1-R to RELENG_7 upgrade breaks re nic

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:47:07PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Steve Wills, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> re0:  Gigabit Ethernet> port 0x7e00-0x7eff mem 0xfd3ff000-0xfd3f, 
> 0xfd3f8000-0xfd3fbfff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci8
> re0: Chip rev. 0x2800
> re0: MAC rev. 0x0010

For a data point, I have

re0:  port 0xdc00-0xdcff mem 0xfdfff000-0xfdff
 irq 19 at device 0.0 on pci2
re0: turning off MSI enable bit.
re0: Chip rev. 0x3800
re0: MAC rev. 0x

on a recent 7-STABLE (if_re.c,v 1.95.2.41) which is working OK.  I
have gotten a few Tx interrupt watchdog timeouts, which I don't recall
seeing in any quantity before, but they don't seem to cause any
problems.  It was previously on a ~Dec 2007 RELENG_7 and worked fine
there (and had MSI enabled, as well).



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Re: Unhappy Xorg upgrade

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 04:25:21PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Alex Goncharov, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> Csup can only go forward -- or can it go back?)

You can specify a date in a supfile since, like, ever.


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Re: changing a ports final destination via make knobs question...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 06:04:36PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Paul Schmehl, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> If you plan on doing this often, pkgtools.conf is your best bet.  If you 
> plan on doing it once, commandline is probably the easiest and quickest.

I would say using ports-mgmt/portconf would be a better bet, since it
does its thing whether you use make install or portupgrade or
portmaster or portsuperwhatsit.  A line like

php5*: PREFIX=/usr/local/php5

should take care of all php5 base/extension ports, wherever in the
tree they end up.  Of course, you're still odd in the tricky woods
building PECL stuff or the like, which could go against 4 or 5.  But
that's a different mess.


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Re: BETA4 - acpi.thermal.tz0 always at 40,0C

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2007 at 10:53:20AM +0100 I heard the voice of
[EMAIL PROTECTED], and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> $ sysctl hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature
>   hw.acpi.thermal.tz0.temperature: 40,0C
> 
> motherboard is a Asus M2A-VM, version is FreeBSD 7.0-BETA4 amd64

I have the same board running on i386, and mine always shows 40 too.


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Re: /boot size in 7.0 beta3

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Dec 07, 2007 at 12:56:06AM -1000 I heard the voice of
Parv, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> So, just what have you been stuffing in /?

kernel.debug for one thing.  But that's not what really kills it; it's
when there are TWO kernel.debug's in the time between starting the
upgrade and being sure the new one works solid.  Or now, two sets of
.symbols files, which is way too much for it (one set is ~75 megs).



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Re: /boot size in 7.0 beta3

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 05:32:41PM -0800 I heard the voice of
Doug Hardie, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> Between 6.2 and 7 /boot has grown from 45 MB to 114 MB.  That poses
> a significant issue for those of us who have been running production
> systems for many years.  I have the root partition set to 200 MB
> which has been more than enough.

Well, 200 meg has been pretty tight and rather small for a couple
versions now.  My 194 meg / partition set up in 3-CURRENT days is
pretty tight these days   8-}

rm'ing away all the .symbols files from the kernel dir did the trick
for me, though (I did have to do it in another terminal while
`installkernel` was running to get it to complete...  there's probably
a flag I can pass to make):

Filesystem   SizeUsed   Avail Capacity  Mounted on
/dev/da0s1a  194M 65M113M36%/



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Re: /usr/share/man/man8/MAKEDEV.8

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Nov 02, 2007 at 11:28:43AM + I heard the voice of
Alex Zbyslaw, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> In addition, considering an *option* to simply not have cat-ed
> manual pages (for people with machines fast enough to just not care,
> or who have machines where you just don't read man pages often
> enough to care) does not seem out of order.

Actually, that's already happening much of the time.  Rev 1.33 of
src/gnu/usr.bin/man/man/Makefile (2001/01/15, in RELENG_5 and newer)
turned off making man setuid by default, so it'll only make catpages
when run as root anyway.

Me, I solve it for base system manpages by having /usr mounted
read-only.   8-}


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Re: /usr/share/man/man8/MAKEDEV.8

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2007 at 01:43:41PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Bernd Walter, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> Show me the positives that outweights the negatives and I'm on your
> side.

Why do you think we're on different sides to begin with?  I've not
advocated removing catman capability, or denied that different
situations have different needs, or that those needs may include
catman, or for that matter said anything at all applicable to tiny
environments or appliance building.  The sole and entire point of my
mail was to provide a handful of data points supporting the idea that
on new, not particularly new, and even pretty freakin' old "normal"
computers, there's no pressing performance need for catman.

That there exist people with even older systems where the situation is
otherwise, or situations with new (but otherwise aimed) systems other
than general purpose systems aimed at workstations and servers, is not
something I've ever denied, but it's also not at all related to what I
was talking about.  None of my statements were ever INTENDED to be
applied in those cases, so why should you be surprised that they're
invalid there?


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Re: /usr/share/man/man8/MAKEDEV.8

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:08:31PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Bernd Walter, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I don't completly agree.
> Many people forget that FreeBSD is used on slow embedded systems as
> well and I prefer having manpoages there as well.

Oh, I don't argue that there are cases where catpages are still
useful.  But I think they're the exception, not the rule.  When you're
setting up a tiny system (by whatever the standards of the given day
are) or an appliance, you expect the tradeoffs to be rather different
than on a normal (by said standards) general-purpose computer.

Heck, looking at Soekris, everything above the 4501 class is probably
faster than my laptop8-}


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Re: /usr/share/man/man8/MAKEDEV.8

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 10:23:58AM + I heard the voice of
Alex Zbyslaw, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Of course, with modern systems where nroff-ing a man page takes
> negligible time and system resources, it could also be argued that
> cat-ed man pages should be a thing of the past :-)

Quite.

The slowest machine I currently have running (to get slower, I'd have
to dig in my closet) is my laptop, which is a P54 Pentium 133MHz, with
32 megs of RAM and a hard drive that runs in PIO mode.  It's running a
2002-vintage RELENG_4, on which the largest manpage is perlfunc(1) (at
71k).  On the first run without the manpage in cache:

% time sh -c 'man perlfunc > /dev/null'
6.881u 0.204s 0:07.22 98.0% 173+581k 8+0io 0pf+0w

A while, but hardly an eternity.  A more typical manpage like ls takes
3 seconds.  On a less ancient machine (but still a few generations
back; Athlon 1.25GHz, few month old RELENG_6), the biggest manpage is
perltoc(1) at 150k.  A cold cache run there takes just over 2 seconds.
On my workstation (dual Athlon 1.4, HEAD), I've got
wireshark-filter(4) at a whopping 746k.  That takes about 8 seconds.
Second place is gcc at 158k, which takes about 1.


So, yes; outside of rather special cases, catpages deserve to enjoy
their retirement at this point   8-}


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Re: 5.x to 6.x source update, bootblocks?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 01:54:15AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Charles Sprickman, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I've been running around upgrading some boxes to 6.2 from 4.11 using
> the directions in UPDATING.  I noticed that in the 4.x to 5.x step
> it's basically mandatory to install the new bootloader:

FWIW, I moved some (the last, I think; yay!) 4.x boxes up to 6.x last
weekend.  I did NOT install a new bootloader before booting the 5.x
kernel, but I DID have a serial console available to manually point it
at the new location for that boot (the installworld after that put the
new loader in place so I didn't have to do it manually after that).
That was enough.


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Re: Making /var/mail mode 1777 (was Re: Installing sendmail SUID installworld suggestion)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 01:06:57PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Danny Braniss, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> in /etc/mtree/BSD.var.dist, change

Yah, but you have to remember and maintain that across upgrades.  In
rc.local, it's set-and-forget.


> see also /etc/rc.d/var

That hack landed and was near-forgotten in rc.local a *LONG* time
before there was a rc.d   ;)


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Re: Making /var/mail mode 1777 (was Re: Installing sendmail SUID installworld suggestion)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 11:35:45AM +0100 I heard the voice of
Oliver Fromme, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> What's the best way to prevent that?  I tried editing the
> appropriate mtree file, but that feels like a hack rather
> than a clean solution.

Well, I did it by the hack of stuffing a 'chmod 1777' in rc.local...


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Re: Don't buy AMD products (was Re: Xorg and ATI card query.)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2007 at 10:43:12AM +1100 I heard the voice of
Andrew Reilly, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Matrox used to have a reputation for goodness (I used to have a G400
> or the like), but it's been a long time...

I'm sitting on a G450 here.  Works great.  I've never heard anything
bad about the 550 either, and it's a bit more capable.  But then, the
550 is also like 6 years old now (and still >$100 new, and uncommon
used), and none of the newer Matrox cards have info released either.
Your choices for a late-model graphics card with released information
for an open driver are limited to...  ahh...  well...  no, not that
one either...   uh...


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Re: Testing UFS/Snapshots/Quotas on -STABLE

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2007 at 09:50:54AM -0500 I heard the voice of
Doug Poland, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> In addition, it appears that compiling support for quotas in the
> kernel will force the Giant lock on UFS and I want to make sure I
> won't have a performance regression on the filesystem.

I can tell you that the impact will range from negligable to
significant, depending on the particular workload.

I have a RELENG_6 box that, for hysterical raisins, has the ports tree
on a partition with quotas, and a large 'portsnap update' gets VERY
jerky.


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Re: Migrating from x86 (32) to amd64

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 08:54:42PM +0300 I heard the voice of
Artem Kuchin, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> Theoretically, what would be the procedure?

- Do a full cross-build of the amd64 world/kernel.
- newfs your swap partition (or an extra partition/drive).
- installworld/kernel the amd64 stuff onto that.
- Boot into that temporary amd64 world.
- installworld/kernel the amd64 stuff onto your main partition.
- Boot back normal-like, re-enable swap.

You should be able to do that in an hour hands-on easily.


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Re: Background fsck causes kernel panic

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Dec 26, 2006 at 10:47:25PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Kris Kennaway, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> As you discovered, the solution is to force a fsck to repair all
> corruption and then proceed (optionally disabling bg fsck
> permanently to prevent a recurrence ;-)

Is it time yet to have another roundabout over whether that should be
the default?


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Re: g_vfs_done() failures on 6.2-RC1

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2006 at 12:25:49AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Scott Long, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> You mention that you are using a driver from the Areca website.
> Have you tried using the stock driver that comes with FreeBSD?  I
> don't know if it will be better or not, but I was planning on doing
> a refresh of the stock driver, and I'd hate to introduce instability
> that wasn't there before.

I don't think it's related to that.  I know a guy who saw similar
errors on an ICH-6(?) controller (with no RAID) on some random
RELENG_6, ending up in somewhat wonky filesystems.  I was inclined to
blame the controller, since it ends up with SATA slave devices.


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Re: Problems unmounting/fssyncking extern UFS filesystem

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 12:18:03AM +0100 I heard the voice of
O. Hartmann, and lo! it spake thus:
> Ronald Klop wrote:
> >
> > IMHO: Please discuss this on [EMAIL PROTECTED] And read
> > the handbook (http://www.freebsd.org/handbook) about
> > releases/versions/branches. -CURRENT is known to have bugs.

I am, in fact, quite familiar with the meaning of -CURRENT, and I have
mentioned the issue on that list a few times in the past.  I offer it
here merely as an example of why syncing and waiting is _not_, in
fact, quite obsolete.


> One of the fellows herein told me this discussion is subject to
> STABLE!

He was yelling at me, not you   ;)


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Re: Problems unmounting/fssyncking extern UFS filesystem

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 05:37:58AM +1100 I heard the voice of
Peter Jeremy, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> All current Un*x filesystems will automatically flush all buffers as
> part of the unmount process

That Depends(tm), partly on what you mean by 'unmount'.

With my Nov05 and Jun06 -CURRENT's, I had to take great care to sync
and sync and wait and sync and sync filesystems before "mount -u -o
ro"'ing them, because otherwise they'd end up NOT flushing everything,
leaving unreferenced stuff around that fsck had to clean up, but only
if I ran it manually because mount DID mark the filesystem as clean.

I just tried to reproduce it on my last-week -CURRENT, and it no
longer does that.  Instead, it locked itself into a "softdep_waitidle:
Failed to flush worklist" loop and won't LET me remount r/o (or
unmount) the filesystems.  Obviously, I should have kept up my
now-established habit of sync'ing and waiting a while before
un/remounting...


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Re: Downgrade to 5.5

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Nov 09, 2006 at 09:56:03AM +0100 I heard the voice of
Albert Shih, and lo! it spake thus:
>
>   make installkernel on /usr/src from 5.x
>   reboot
>   make installworld.

This is highly likely (one might almost say "assured") to not work,
since the 5.x kernel isn't going to be able to run the 6.x userland
code.


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Re: HEADS UP: FreeBSD 5.3, 5.4, 6.0 EoLs coming soon

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 10:48:52PM +0800 I heard the voice of
Eugene Grosbein, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> 4.11-STABLE:
> fdc0:  at port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa0
^^^

> 6.2-PRERELEASE:
> fdc0:  port 0x3f0-0x3f5,0x3f0 irq 6 drq 2 on acpi0
 ^^^

That's suspicious right there (doubly for the overlap)...


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Re: 6.1 quota issues

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 10:56:47PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Charles Sprickman, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Trying again, it reported the same inconsistencies then sat there
> for more than an hour taking up all the available CPU on the box
> until I killed it.  The mtime on quota.user had not changed during
> the run.

FWIW, I saw this on a box I setup running a late November -CURRENT
last year; I could never get the quotas setup and running right
because the check always just looped itself up.  The partition they're
on has about 3 gig used out of ~45, with maybe a dozen users.  I never
spent much time on it, since it's just a personal box, and the quotas
are mostly just to provide a handy measure of who's using what (no
limits set).  I just gave it up and decided to worry about it later.


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Re: FreeBSD 6.x CVSUP today crashes with zero load ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 10:29:04AM -0400 I heard the voice of
John Baldwin, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> There is an 'ACPI' feature bit, but I think it has to do with
> preserving the TSC rate while the CPU is throttled.  It's not
> required for core ACPI operation.

Ah, well, I stand corrected.  I have a number of systems with ACPI,
but none of them ever showed such a bit.


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Re: FreeBSD 6.x CVSUP today crashes with zero load ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2006 at 01:16:11PM + I heard the voice of
Eprha Carvajal, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I see no ACPI capability in the processor features

ACPI is not a CPU feature.


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Re: Gigabit ethernet very slow.

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Jun 26, 2006 at 05:05:26PM +1000 I heard the voice of
Michael Vince, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> According to pftop (with modulate state rules) I am able to get
> about 85megs/sec when I don't have dd running. dd does indeed eats a
> fair amount of cpu (40%) on the AMD64 6-stable machine.

dd does ridiculously small (512 byte?) read/writes, so it's gotta do a
LOT of system calls and a lot of context switching when you don't give
it a bigger blocksize.


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Re: vmstat 'b' (disk busy?) field keeps climbing ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 08:33:05PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Matthew D. Fuller, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> It's the vnode pager, not the swap pager.  AIUI, that's mostly
> paging in and out pages of running binaries (from the image on
> disk), not moving stuff in and out of swapspace.

Actually, as I think of it, I think the vnode pager would also be the
part used faulting pages in and out of mmap()'d files, which could
point at the database.  Memory pressure from that wouldn't result in
swapping, since clean pages would just get tossed and dirty pages
would be synced and tossed.

In that case it may not be so much a 'problem', as just 'normal' for
your case, and your actual problem may be somewhat elsewhere.


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Re: vmstat 'b' (disk busy?) field keeps climbing ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 11:38:44PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Chuck Swiger, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Yeah-- it's more common for a system to need more RAM for dynamicly
> allocated content which would be placed into the swapfile then it
> uses binary executable pages, it's possible to go the other way,
> too.

Yeah, and it's WAY the other way.

0 swap pager pageins
0 swap pager pageouts
31750 vnode pager pageins
15954 vnode pager pageouts

That speaks of HUGE memory pressure in program text; plenty for the
'data' of the programs, but really really tight for the programs
themselves.  That'll also lead to a lot of disk thrashing.  And there
aren't even all that many fork() calls, relative to my box (of course,
mine does things like ports builds that spawn of totally stupid
numbers of processes, so that may be a quirk here rather than there).

Perhaps rebuilding a bunch of stuff with -Os will gain you some
breathing room, but more memory or less load is probably the only real
answer.  And I think you already had 4 gig in an i386 box, so you're
kinda in trouble on the memory side.


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Re: vmstat 'b' (disk busy?) field keeps climbing ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 10:02:22PM -0300 I heard the voice of
Marc G. Fournier, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Which is odd, no, if I'm hardly swapping?

Well,

> >>31750 vnode pager pageins
> >>15954 vnode pager pageouts

It's the vnode pager, not the swap pager.  AIUI, that's mostly paging
in and out pages of running binaries (from the image on disk), not
moving stuff in and out of swapspace.


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Re: vmstat 'b' (disk busy?) field keeps climbing ...

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 07:12:54PM -0300 I heard the voice of
Marc G. Fournier, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> 31750 vnode pager pageins
>209538 vnode pager pages paged in
> 15954 vnode pager pageouts
>219494 vnode pager pages paged out

This may be something to look at.  My workstation (~3.5 day uptime)
has a fraction of that:

 7204 vnode pager pageins
37609 vnode pager pages paged in
1 vnode pager pageouts
1 vnode pager pages paged out

Compare to the number of processes spawned (I'm at 10x yours):

> 28399  fork() calls
>  1708 vfork() calls
> 0 rfork() calls

   282510  fork() calls
22164 vfork() calls
0 rfork() calls


That sounds like hefty memory pressure.


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Re: How can I know which files a proccess is accessing?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 02:14:01PM -0700 I heard the voice of
Clint Olsen, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Linux has a cool program: lsof (list open files).  Does FreeBSD have
> something similar?

fstat.

(or lsof in ports, if you wanted)


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Re: Dual Opteron system will not run SMP

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 12:37:58PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Pete French, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I had been wondering what 'safe' does differently, and whether I
> could fill up loader.conf with approrpiate values to emulate what
> 'safe' does and then start commenting them out one at a time.

"Safe" disables ATA/ATAPI DMA (so wouldn't affect SCSI), disables
ACPI, and disables the APIC (which has the side effect of disabling
SMP).


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Re: long timeout on boot

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Jun 03, 2006 at 10:48:43AM +1000 I heard the voice of
Antony Mawer, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> ... but there have been a huge number of commits over the recent few
> years.

I believe the actual culprit is GEOM tasting (or trying to taste) the
media, and not getting the message that there isn't any there.  If you
stick a floppy in, it'll note it right away and move on.


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Re: INVARIANTS (was Re: RELENG_4 -> 5 -> 6: significant performance regression)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 11:58:26AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Kris Kennaway, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> FYI, INVARIANTS adds checks but does not (is not supposed to) divert
> code paths.

It does at least in UMA; it does a lot of bzero()/NULL'ing out of
memory, which might hide later uninitialized-use bugs that could bite
you without it (and, of course, probably burns a fair chunk of CPU to
do it ;).  I know I've heard other cases over the past 5 years or so;
that's the only one I've heard recently or can check, but I wouldn't
be too surprised if there were others.


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INVARIANTS (was Re: RELENG_4 -> 5 -> 6: significant performance regression)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 10:37:40AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Kris Kennaway, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> With respect to INVARIANTS, you just need to get used to the fact
> that running thousands of checks for bugs is incompatible with
> running at optimal speed.

(I'm not sure what the point of saying this is, really, but I'll say
it anyway.)

I've run all my systems with INVARIANTS for at least as long as I've
known it was there.  While more performance is always good, hardly any
of my systems are so constrained as to need every bit of suds all the
time; trading off a bit of performance for a better chance of catching
a problem before it really screws something up is just a no-brainer.

Additionally (and especially on -CURRENT), I run it because I think
more people run it than don't, and while theoretically it should just
add checks, I know there are places where it changes code paths much
more than that.  So, the !(INVARIANTS) code paths don't get exercised
as much, and I worry about bugs hiding there that don't get found (I
think I recall a case or three over the years of just that happening).
Like everyone, I'm sure, I'm all for ferreting out bugs and getting
them fixed, but I'd rather not have to bust my virtual face on the
virtual concrete to do it;)

It's totally worth wasting 2% of the system on adding that security.
Heck, maybe even 5%.  But 10%?  25%?  I wonder.  It's been a long time
since I had a system fall over from a KASSERT, but due to the code
path issues, I'm not sure that really means I'm "safe" without it.


Yeah, I was right, there wasn't really much point in there.  But I
typed it, so y'all have to read it now:p


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Re: RELENG_4 -> 5 -> 6: significant performance regression

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 03:01:18AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Jonathan Noack, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Have you tried putting I586_CPU in there?  See
> http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2005-December/020696.html.

As Peter Jeremy mentioned in
,
the primary suspect (optimized copy/zero routines) would never happen
except on a real 586 CPU, and is totally disabled anyway.  See
sys/i386/isa/npx.c line 424-437 (line numbers from rev 1.163, salt to
taste):

#ifdef I586_CPU_XXX
if (cpu_class == CPUCLASS_586 && npx_ex16 && npx_exists &&
[...]

The #ifdef will never match, and even if it did, the if() would never
kick in unless the CPU was actually a 586.  The #ifdef has been
disabled since rev 1.95 (2001/04/13).


(This isn't to say that there isn't something else hiding somewhere
that I686_CPU doesn't enable that it should, but just nipping another
round of the copy routine discussion in the bud...)


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Re: Pros and Cons of amd64 (versus i386).

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Apr 10, 2006 at 10:02:34AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Christian Lopez de Castilla Wagner, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> As you can see, the outside is more than twice as fast in this case.
> Just a guess, since both are IBM disks: You're using a
> Workstation/Server disk, which probably performs in a more balanced
> way across the platter, while this (consumer disk) is not
> performance-oriented. Maybe SCSI and IDE devices are not as similar
> as we all thought?

I would think it's more a matter that it's just a much older and much
lower-density disk, so the difference isn't as pronounced.  The seeks
show where the SCSI pulls ahead of the IDE.  For instance:

> Full stroke:  250 iter in   5.650173 sec =   22.601 msec
Full stroke:  250 iter in   3.986904 sec =   15.948 msec
> Half stroke:  250 iter in   4.581880 sec =   18.328 msec
Half stroke:  250 iter in   3.314294 sec =   13.257 msec
> Quarter stroke:   500 iter in   7.510191 sec =   15.020 msec
Quarter stroke:   500 iter in   5.683162 sec =   11.366 msec



Now, compare a modern SCSI drive:

Seek times:
Full stroke:  250 iter in   2.144289 sec =8.577 msec
Half stroke:  250 iter in   1.649111 sec =6.596 msec
Quarter stroke:   500 iter in   2.707602 sec =5.415 msec
Short forward:400 iter in   1.726583 sec =4.316 msec
Short backward:   400 iter in   1.076023 sec =2.690 msec
Seq outer:   2048 iter in   0.198563 sec =0.097 msec
Seq inner:   2048 iter in   0.194318 sec =0.095 msec
Transfer rates:
outside:   102400 kbytes in   1.406852 sec =72787 kbytes/sec
middle:102400 kbytes in   1.557666 sec =65739 kbytes/sec
inside:102400 kbytes in   2.112654 sec =48470 kbytes/sec

da0:  Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device 
da0: 70007MB (143374744 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 8924C)


The difference in transfer rates is less than half there, too.  But,
this is a 15k RPM drive, which means that the platters are much
smaller, so there's much less difference in the linear speed between
the rim and the spindle side.  It's not because of any attempted
compensation toward an "average" performance, it's just a side effect
of trying to not require a nuclear reactor to power it8-}



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Re: Pros and Cons of amd64 (versus i386).

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Apr 08, 2006 at 06:00:56PM -0600 I heard the voice of
Scott Long, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Modern disks (I don't know how to define a cutoff to this term,
> unfortunately) definitely put more bits onto the outer rim of the
> platter than the inner rim.

Pretty much any disk you'd currently find, I'd say.

diskinfo -t won't run through on my 4 or 2 gigs ("disk too small for
test"  :), but on my 9 gigger:

Transfer rates:
outside:   102400 kbytes in   5.215159 sec =19635 kbytes/sec
middle:102400 kbytes in   6.268067 sec =16337 kbytes/sec
inside:102400 kbytes in   8.237962 sec =12430 kbytes/sec

da4 at ahc2 bus 0 target 5 lun 0
da4:  Fixed Direct Access SCSI-3 device 
da4: 40.000MB/s transfers (20.000MHz, offset 31, 16bit), Tagged Queueing Enabled
da4: 8748MB (17916240 512 byte sectors: 255H 63S/T 1115C)


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Re: FreeBSD 2.2.9 Released

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Apr 02, 2006 at 12:02:38PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Patrick M. Hausen, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> That will be 1.1.5.2, of course. RELENG_1 is in maintenance mode,
> now.

Y'know, I DO have a box running RELENG_2_1_0...


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Re: Ifconfig with rc.conf Broken

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 01:56:47PM -0600 I heard the voice of
James Wyatt, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> Don't alias interfaces have to be added to the "network_interfaces="
> line?  I thought only "real" interfaces were autodetected...

I think you're thinking of interface name aliases, not additional
addresses on interfaces.


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Re: calcru: negative time (Interrupt Storm on cpu0: timer)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2006 at 12:09:34AM +0100 I heard the voice of
Frank Steinborn, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> cpu0: timer158483081   2000

That's not a storm, that's normal.


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Re: install FreeBSS 6 from an existing filesystem?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Feb 11, 2006 at 11:35:57PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Torfinn Ingolfsen, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> The laptop has a FreeBSD-4.11 install on slice 1 of the disk, and
> the other half is free for my 6.0 installation.

Actually, the easiest thing to do in this case is probably to label
and newfs the stuff for 6, and install it manually from the 4
partition.  You won't get UFS2 filesystems, but...


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Re: Broken kde3 from ports, not downloading what it's supposed to. Will not compile; need advice please.

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Feb 09, 2006 at 11:49:46AM -0800 I heard the voice of
Ryan R, and lo! it spake thus:
> On 2/9/06, Ryan R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Oh dear.
> >
> > I've got to do a make clean before trying the 'make install'
> > again?!
> >
> > I spent hours compiling already :-(

You don't have to clean the whole thing; just the MySQL part.


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Re: FreeBSD 4.9 won't upgrade ?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

[ Redirecting to -stable, where it's more appropriate ]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 07:31:10PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Jim Keller, and lo! it spake thus:
>
> I go through the whole process, and although it does appear to
> recompile the system (my openssl went from the original distro to
> the newest version, for example), uname -a is still reporting the
> distro as 4.9-RELEASE.

That's because you haven't installed the new kernel.


> Also, it will not install a custom kernel, it always goes to
> GENERIC, even when I specify KERNCONF= in the buildkernel process.

This I dunno about.  Were I you, I'd just go ahead and get GENERIC
installed and running so that your kernel matches your userland at
least, then worry about why your can't seem to build your own kernel.


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Re: [6.0-RELEASE] Trouble with Intel-SATA-RAID Controller

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jan 12, 2006 at 02:44:59PM +0100 I heard the voice of
Raphael H. Becker, and lo! it spake thus:

Note that this:

> 3ware:
>   * 3ware Raid Controller Escalade 8006-2LP, 2 Channels,  about 130-150 EUR

is a "real" hardware RAID controller, while I'm pretty sure that this:

> highpoint:
>   * RAID S-ATA Highpoint Rocketraid 1640, 4 Channels, ca 100 EUR

is a more "software"-ish (I think the A Highpoints are the
hardware-ish ones).  Not that that's necessarily good or bad either
way; just a point.


> Any experience with theese controllers?  Any other
> manufacturers/models in the range between 100 and 200EUR for 2
> disks?
> PS: 100 EUR = 121.26 USD 

Well, I've got a server running on a Promise (TX2200, maybe?) 2-port
SATA, which cost me about US$50.  It's software-ish, but pretty well
supported.


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Re: 5-port (NEC) USB-2.0 PCI card support?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Jan 01, 2006 at 01:31:48PM +1100 I heard the voice of
Andrew Reilly, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Hmm.  No, nothing at all.  (And it also clearly shows that the piece
> of dmesg.boot that I posted ([EMAIL PROTECTED]:7:3) was part of the Intel
> PIIX4 chipset.)

FWIW, I've got an Adaptec 4-port USB2 card that similar doesn't show
up at all in pciconf or a -v dmesg.


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Re: Fast releases demand binary updates.. (Was: Release schedule for 2006 )

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Dec 23, 2005 at 09:51:15AM +0100 I heard the voice of
Patrick M. Hausen, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Any suggestions for an alternative to NFS if your 'client' servers
> are located "all over the world" and you want to installworld across
> the Internet? I was planning to use NFS/TCP secured by IPSec
> transport mode, but anything less complicated would be greatly
> appreciated ;-)

This is one of the situations where r{dist,sync}'ing out the binaries
makes more sense than NFS mounting and running installworld (which
would be awful awful slow, above and beyond security and convenience
issues).


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Re: gmirror SCSI+IDE

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 05:23:48PM -0500 I heard the voice of
Martin Cracauer, and lo! it spake thus:
> Ivan Voras wrote on Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 06:39:18PM +0100: 
> 
> > For example, AFAIK SCSI devices are under Giant and IDE are not 
> 
> In 6.x and 7.x both are finer-graded.

I wish somebody would inform my SCSI controllers about that...


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Re: Fast releases demand binary updates.. (Was: Release schedule for 2006)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 01:09:04PM -0800 I heard the voice of
Jo Rhett, and lo! it spake thus:
>  
> No, you're missing the point.  More core OS upgrades means less
> incremental patches (which are easier to apply than a full update).

Right.  I don't understand how B follows A here.

These patches come from where?  Security advisories, mailing list
discussions, and eating too much beef right before bed and waking up
at 2am with brilliant ideas?  Why would there be less of them, just
because RELENG_X_Y_RELEASE tags are laid down more often?


> Huh?  That's backwards.  If we can't schedule the downtime for a
> full operating system upgrade (which takes far longer than it
> should) then the system won't get upgraded.

Having done full OS upgrades a number of times, I can't remember the
last time it took more than 5 or 10 minutes (during most of which the
system can keep running its normal services, just a little more
crunched on CPU or I/O).  Well, OK, I can; it was when I moved servers
from 2.2.x to 4.x.  But that's a rather exceptional case, and next
time THAT happens, I'm darn well using it as an excuse to strongarm
new hardware out of somebody and replace the server at the same
time...


> Not to be rude, but I think your definition of analogy is wrong.

No, you're right.  "Hyperbole" was probably a better word, but even
that doesn't quite fit.  My ability to find the right word is flaky at
times.  I don't understand the basis of your assertion that more
common tagging means suddenly you can't apply individual patches.


> Back to the point, the comments aren't "bad".  Your idea that binary
> operating system upgrades from ISO are "easier" demonstrates that
> you're talking about home computers, not production servers.

Oh, no.  Heck, I find that upgrades from SOURCE are "easier".  In
fact, just last month I bought my first CD burner, so it wasn't until
a few weeks ago that I even burned my first ISO (and that, just to
test the burner and figure out how to do it), and I've never booted or
installed off one.  For small groups of servers, I NFS mount
installworlds, and for larger groups, I rdist out binaries.  But it
always comes from source.


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Re: Fast releases demand binary updates.. (Was: Release schedule for 2006)

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 02:00:21PM -0800 I heard the voice of
Joe Rhett, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Increasing the number of deployed systems out of date [...]

This doesn't make any sense.  If you install a 6.0 system, in 6 months
(assuming you installed it right when 6.0 was cut, for simplicity), it
will be 6 months out of date.  It's neither more nor less out of date
if the current release is then 6.1, or 6.2, or 8.12; it's still 6
months back.

A case could, in fact, be made that more common releases lead to far
FEWER deployed systems out of date, since it makes it far easier for
those who already use binary upgrades instead of source to get things
faster.


Now, this is not to say that easier incremental binary upgrades are a
bad thing, but bad analogy doesn't help anybody...


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Re: HEADS UP: Release schedule for 2006

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2005 at 02:59:09PM + I heard the voice of
Joao Barros, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> There have been some questions on the lists about what to expect
> from release x.y and I personnally have always looked at the TODO
> list like http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.0R/todo.html

It's always been my impression that the todo list is put together as
we close in on a release as a "these things still need to get done".
It's not really a "here are the things this release offers over the
previous one"...


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Re: permanent per month panic on 5.4-p4

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:50:50AM +0200 I heard the voice of
Oleg Palij, and lo! it spake thus:
> > Unfortunately this trace looks corrupted.  Are you building your
> > kernel with -O2?
>
> I guess that no.

Isn't -O2 the default now if you're not explicitly setting it
otherwise?


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Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 08:34:42PM +1100 I heard the voice of
Peter Jeremy, and lo! it spake thus:
> On Wed, 2005-Dec-07 13:34:53 -0800, Vizion wrote:
> >development is so good. It deserves better and more professional
> >attention to the role of end user documentation.
> 
> Are you volunteering?

It should be noted that this sort of response often comes across
rather sneering and snarky, but (most of the time, anyway) it's really
not meant to.  It often DOES translate pretty directly to "Yes, that
would be nice, and it would be really great if somebody who was
interested and capable were to grab the reins and do it."


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Re: cpu-timer rate

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 10:15:52AM -0800 I heard the voice of
Kevin Oberman, and lo! it spake thus:
> > From: "Matthew D. Fuller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > 
> > Because the rate is always twice hz.
> 
> While I will concede that I have no explanation, but on all of my
> systems rate = HZ +/-1. I have never seen a case where rate/2 = HZ.

Well, OK, it always is when you're using the LAPIC timer, which I
think is on 6.x and up (with the APIC enabled, of course).  When
you're using irq0, it just runs at hz.


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Re: cpu-timer rate

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 09:42:08AM +0100 I heard the voice of
kama, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I appreciate that you took time to answer about the different
> clocks. But that does not answer why vmstat -i shows a rate of 2000
> when I have set the hz to 1000.

Because the rate is always twice hz.


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Re: top(1) displaying threads

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2005 at 06:55:19PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Niki Denev, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> But the top(1) manual page still says that the default behaviour is
> NOT to show them.

Because it's true.

H mode shows the kernel-visible threads INDEPENDENTLY.  Of course, it
would be neat if we had CPU% accounting for threaded programs...


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Re: Freebsd 5.3 screw up.... deleted /lib/libc.so.5

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 05:29:36PM -0800 I heard the voice of
David Kirchner, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> There is still hope however -- the /rescue directory contains a
> statically linked binary and a whole bunch of hardlinks, including
> 'mount' and 'cp'. If you can get libc.so.5 onto a floppy somewhere
> else you may be able to copy it into place with these utilities.

Note that it also has mount_nfs and rcp, so if you've got another box
handy 'nearby', you can get creative like that.


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Re: i386 vs amd64 - benchmark results

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2005 at 11:52:30AM -0400 I heard the voice of
Vivek Khera, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> The amd64 memory architecture is NUMA -- that is, depending on  how
> your RAM is layed out, some of it is faster to access for each
> processor.  Accessing RAM "local" to the other processor(s) is
> slower.

On the other hand, I've heard from various sources (this is all pure
hearsay, so trust it as much as it deserves) that in practice
NUMAization in this case isn't really a gain.  It's non-uniform, but
it's not nearly as non-uniform as a lot of applications of the term,
and the performance penalty is so small in absolute terms that the
added complexity that comes with NUMA awareness can actually be enough
to make it a net loss.


But then, I usually don't know what I'm talking about8-}


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Re: SMP support maturity? AMD64x2 or FX-57?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Fri, Jul 22, 2005 at 01:27:30PM -0700 I heard the voice of
Frank Mayhar, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> Sigh.  You know, I've been running with two processors since 4.1 or
> thereabouts.  Sure, the BGL scheme is inefficient as far as the
> kernel itself is concerned, but for compute-bound user processes it
> worked just fine.  Naturally I avoided 5.0/1/2 for my production
> boxen, waiting for the complete overhaul of SMP to stabilize, but
> when I booted 5.3, everything was fine and I haven't looked back.

This system (this one, right here, that I'm typing on) is dual
processor, and I installed it fresh with 4-CURRENT just after RELENG_3
was branched.  Except for an excursion on RELENG_5, it's always run
-CURRENT.  Sometimes I'd go a year without updating, sometimes a week.
It's running -CURRENT from a couple weeks ago now.  Sometimes it's a
bit twitchy, but I think running X has a whole lot to do with that,
since MP systems under heavier loads without X would do just peachy
with the exact same build that was flaky here.


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Re: Problems with 5.x

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 06:27:17PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Torfinn Ingolfsen, and lo! it spake thus:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:57:38 -0400
> Matt Emmerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The machine is a clunker - P2-266 with 48MB RAM and a couple of
> > 2GB ATA drives.
> 
> And you are not running out of space during buildworld?

I have 750 meg each for /usr/src and /usr/obj.  src is about 400 meg,
and obj gets nearly full with the system and kernel build (that's
"nearly full" to the reserved space line).  So call it rather
generously 1.2 gig for the whole thing.


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Re: load > 1, no process using >10% CPU...?

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 10:05:24PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Damian Gerow, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> It turned out to be a runaway xmms process.  But I still find it
> strange that it didn't show anything obvious in top.

Threaded processes don't rack up CPU%.  It's an (annoying) side effect
of the KSE-based threading libraries.  There've been a few discussions
about it, but last I heard there wasn't any concensus on how to fix
it.


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Re: Sound problem

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 01:49:22PM +0200 I heard the voice of
Cristiano Deana, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> if it loaded something you will find your right sound module listed
> there.

Not always, actually.  My card uses snd_mss, but it took me a whole
bunch of loading and unloading to find that out.

[7:46:28] mortis:~
(ttypd):{22}% cat /dev/sndstat
FreeBSD Audio Driver (newpcm)
Installed devices:
pcm0:  at io 0x534 irq 5 drq 1:0 bufsz 4096 (1p/1r/0v channels duplex 
default)

(January RELENG_5)


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Re: SSH Protocol mismatch

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 04:05:11AM +0800 I heard the voice of
CryBaby, and lo! it spake thus:
> OS: FreeBSD 4.11-STABLE #3: Fri Jan 14 23:53:07 CST 2005
> 
> I ssh my host by using putty or any ssh client in WindowsXP, and I
> can't login lately. (But telnet and other services are ok.)

Check that the version 1 protocol and/or PasswordAuthentication are
enabled.  I had to do one or both of those to let Putty work with sshd
a while back; can't remember which it was.


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Re: php5.0.3_1 doesn't run after update

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 04:16:51PM -0500 I heard the voice of
bob, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> I am running 4.10 stable.
> 
> I upgraded to php5.0.3_1 by:
> 
> cvsup
> portsdb -Uu
> pkgdb -vuf
> portupgrade -v php5-session
> portupgrade -v php5-mysql
> ...
> portupgrade -v php5

you need to update the base (php5) /before/ you update any of the
extensions (php5-*), since all you're doing is building them against
the old version right before you replace it.

I always find it easiest to just do it all at once with something like
"portupgrade php5\*", and let it handle the ordering.


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Re: TFTPD timeout

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 05:51:02PM +0600 I heard the voice of
Maxim V Tretjyakov, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
> What is wrong?

Firewall?


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Re: bug in pw, -STABLE [patch]

[Matthew D. Fuller]

On Sun, Jun 23, 2002 at 09:00:52AM -0700 I heard the voice of
Paul Herman, and lo! it spake thus:
> On Sun, 23 Jun 2002, Geoffrey C. Speicher wrote:
> 
> How so?  I'm not suggesting unlink(2)ing /etc/master.passwd or
> /etc/spwd.db at all.

No, but pw(8) does; making it not do so would require reasonably
extensive rewriting.



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Re: bug in pw, -STABLE [patch]

[Matthew D. Fuller]

Sorry for the slooow response, I've had problems you wouldn't believe
with my email...

On Fri, May 17, 2002 at 06:40:57PM -0400 I heard the voice of
Geoffrey C. Speicher, and lo! it spake thus:
> 
>  1. The lock isn't very fine-grained.  We grab one giant lock before
> doing any operations at all, and let it go right before we exit.
> The alternative is to lock for /etc/master.passwd and /etc/group
> individually as necessary, but I saw no point in going that far since
> pw seems to spend most of its time updating those files anyway.

This was what I had in mind in the first place; just a single fairly
coarse lock on anything changing [master.]passwd.  I hadn't actually
thought of group, mainly because I don't subscribe to the group-per-user
philosophy, so group changes are practically nonexistent and almost
always manual (but then, I add users with vipw too ;), but a single lock
around them makes sense to me.  A "Don't futz with user auth because I'm
fiddling with it" lock.


>  2. The lockfile is /var/run/pw.lock and it always contains the pid of
> the pw process that most recently grabbed the lock.

Good, good...


>  3. The lockfile is never deleted, because doing so seemed to cause a
> race condition between the time the file was closed and unlinked,
> leading to password file corruption again.  If anyone has a solution
> to this, please speak up.

Sure; unlink it before you close it.
However, we can avoid that by using O_CREAT | O_EXCL (rather than using
O_EXLOCK, which uses flock(2)-style stuff).  That way, if the file
exists, it's locked, so drop out.


However, I'd make a few changes and additions.  First off, I'd say put
the lock info in , not in a local include for pw(8).  See first
attachment.  The naming was changed to match the other stuff in that
file, and changed to do a create/delete sequence as well, so see second
attachment for updated diffs to pw(8).

Now, that brings us up-to-date.  I'd also propose the next step (which
should be the same step) would be to update a few other things; for
instance, passwd(1), chpass(1), pwd_mkdb(8), vipw(8), etc.  From what I
can see of the source, all of them use stuff from libutil (why doesn't
pw(8)?  Oh well, one more thing to patch down the road).  So,
accordingly, see third attachment for patches to libutil (note that this
changes the way pw_mkdb() calls pwd_mkdb(8), so it depends on the next
patch).  pwd_mkdb(8) needs to try grabbing the auth subsystem lock,
EXCEPT when it's already held (duh); this COULD be done by having it try
and see if the lock is held by it's parent by checking the PID, but I'm
too lazy, so I'll add a command-line option; see fourth attachment for
those diffs.  vipw(8) needs the minor addition of lock/unlock, so that's
attachment 5.  passwd(1) uses PAM, which I'm fairly sure I don't want to
get into right now, so I'll ignore it for the time being.

*pant*  OK.  All these compile, though I haven't run them all through a
torture test.  For my next trick, I'm going to redo adduser(8) and
rmuser(8) so they use pw(8) to do their dirty work, but I'm going to take
a slight break before I consider THAT mess.

So, to recap attachments:
1- Updated /usr/include/pwd.h with locking file/mode
2- Updated pw(8) with O_EXCL change and changed names for #define's
3- Updated libutil (requires patch #4 to work right) with lock/unlock
   functions and changed calling of pwd_mkdb(8)
4- Updated pwd_mkdb(8) with locking, EXCEPT when called with new arg
   '-n', which is used by libutil in pw_mkdb() (see patch #3), which is
   the function used by, e.g., vipw(8)
5- Updated vipw(8)


How does that all strike you?  I'm probably going to fiddle with this a
bit later to try and see how badly it breaks, but if it works out, then
IMHO it's a good first step to consolidating all the passwd-manipulation
cruft.



-- 
Matthew Fuller (MF4839)   |  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Systems/Network Administrator |  http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/

"The only reason I'm burning my candle at both ends, is because I
  haven't figured out how to light the middle yet"


Index: pwd.h
===
RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/include/pwd.h,v
retrieving revision 1.12
diff -u -r1.12 pwd.h
--- pwd.h   9 Jun 2002 19:39:18 -   1.12
+++ pwd.h   18 Jun 2002 03:26:38 -
@@ -66,6 +66,9 @@
 #define_PATH_MASTERPASSWD  "/etc/master.passwd"
 #define_MASTERPASSWD   "master.passwd"
 
+#define_PATH_PWDLOCK   "/var/run/pw.lock"
+#define_MODE_PWDLOCK   (S_IRUSR | S_IWUSR)
+
 #define_PATH_MP_DB "/etc/pwd.db"
 #define_MP_DB  "pwd.db"
 #define_PATH_SMP_DB"/etc/spwd.db"


Index: pw.c
===
RCS file: /usr/cvs/src/usr.sbin/pw/pw.c,v
retrieving revision 1.26
diff -u -r1.26 pw.c
--- pw.c9 Jul 2001 09:24:01 -