Re: Newbie Question About System Update
This might be the only real advantage of a serial console. The unit you pointed to is ~$4000.00, whereas 16-port serial console units run more like $1000.00. I've built a number of Dell systems lately (Windows for this client) but I always order them with the DRAC/4 card. I think it's about $350 Canadian. It has an IP adress and you just connect using a browser and a little JAVA app. The really cool thing is that it lets you control the ENTIRE boot process, including the POST and BIOS setup. Works great, and saves me a 3.5 hour drive to the farthest client installation... Ralph ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:40, Bill Moran wrote: > Pete French <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > KVM requires you to physically _be_ at the colo. > > > > ?! Not the one I have for our colo - it's a little java app > > where I choose a machine from a dropdown and get the video > > in a window on the desktop. > > That's an out of the ordinary KVM. Would you mind passing on the > manufacturer of that unit, I'd like to recommend that unit to a number > of clients/associates of mine. > > The point is that a normal, run of the mill KVM doesn't have that > capability. They're kind of expensive too :( I know of 2 sellers of them in Australia https://www.lindy.com.au/online/arrshop.exe?af=570&as=39401&az=1&ai=1079483 http://www.dcw.com.au/products/kvm.htm Rose Electronics makes the one DCW sell.. http://www.rose.com/htm/ultralink-Lite.htm Although it seems there are plenty to choose from (eg Belkin, Cylades, Adder etc) I haven't used any because they're too pricey :) (Still since serial BIOS mobos are rare/expensive it's probably the cheaper option for a bunch of machines). You could kernel debug over it except you couldn't cut and paste which would suck for reporting back traces. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C pgpcnbBJXKExe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 06:34:58PM +0100, Pete French wrote: > > Colocation that does not include serial console access is IMHO worthless. > > i;ve been following this discussion with interest - what advantages does > a serial concolse give you over a colo's standard KVM access ? I've > never used a serial consolve with FreeBSD, though I see the phrase crop > up a lot. > > -pcf. How do you get to the KVM access? If you have to tell someone to do a thing, its worthless. If you can directly get to the KVM (remotely), e.g. via some application - then its ok. -- -- Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.netMy home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.comMusings Of A Sentient Mind ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:22:56 +0100 Bruce M Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Depending on how exotic you wish to get, however. For example; IBM > have embedded RFB (that's something of an alias for VNC) in their > management controllers for a few years now; these talk to the > management processors (PowerPC 4xx family) in an xSeries cluster over > an RS488 serial bus, which in turn are able to sniff PCI VGA accesses > to give you true remote KVM. And other manufacturers also has "lights out" management boards for their servers. Usually, this is an add on (extra cost), and proprietary, so that it only works with that specific kind of srver as well. I have seen a couple of generic "lights out" mgmt cards as well (I think they use pci slots), but they are not very common. As you said, making ssh'able terminal servers is both easy and cost effective. -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen, Norway ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 02:41:47PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > This might be the only real advantage of a serial console. The unit you > pointed to is ~$4000.00, whereas 16-port serial console units run more > like $1000.00. Then again it's possible to build terminal servers with ssh capabilities using off-the-shelf hardware and open source software for anything from $200-$400. Depending on how exotic you wish to get, however. For example; IBM have embedded RFB (that's something of an alias for VNC) in their management controllers for a few years now; these talk to the management processors (PowerPC 4xx family) in an xSeries cluster over an RS488 serial bus, which in turn are able to sniff PCI VGA accesses to give you true remote KVM. But I agree with the original point that was made about colo and remote management -- if you can't fit remote management into a colo situation, your management costs will increase far more if things go wrong. Regards, BMS ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Pete French <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's an out of the ordinary KVM. Would you mind passing on the > > manufacturer of that unit, I'd like to recommend that unit to a number > > of clients/associates of mine. > > It's an HP unit. The client is a Java program called IPViewer you > donwload from their website. I did have to tweak it to run under > freeBSD (basically download the Linux version and replace the JRE with > the FreeBSD native one). > > *quick rummage* > > I suspect it's one of these: > > http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/rack-options/kvm/index-console.html > > Not that I have ever seen the thing. But it seems likely that it's one of > those. None of the boxes plugged into it are HP/Compaq ones - they are > a miscellany of odd servers from a variety of places, and it works fine > with all of them. > > > The point is that a normal, run of the mill KVM doesn't have that > > capability. > > I havent worked with many colo's - I assumed they all had some kind of remote > KVM ability, sorry. I see what you mean now. > > cheers, > > -pcf. > > PS: I have no clue how miuch those KVM's cost - they might be horrificly > expensive if you dont get one as standard with your hosting. HP and 'cheap' > aren't two words that I naturally associate. This might be the only real advantage of a serial console. The unit you pointed to is ~$4000.00, whereas 16-port serial console units run more like $1000.00. Of course, the obvious advantage to the networkable KVM is that you can remotely admin GUI-based servers easily. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> That's an out of the ordinary KVM. Would you mind passing on the > manufacturer of that unit, I'd like to recommend that unit to a number > of clients/associates of mine. It's an HP unit. The client is a Java program called IPViewer you donwload from their website. I did have to tweak it to run under freeBSD (basically download the Linux version and replace the JRE with the FreeBSD native one). *quick rummage* I suspect it's one of these: http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/proliantstorage/rack-options/kvm/index-console.html Not that I have ever seen the thing. But it seems likely that it's one of those. None of the boxes plugged into it are HP/Compaq ones - they are a miscellany of odd servers from a variety of places, and it works fine with all of them. > The point is that a normal, run of the mill KVM doesn't have that capability. I havent worked with many colo's - I assumed they all had some kind of remote KVM ability, sorry. I see what you mean now. cheers, -pcf. PS: I have no clue how miuch those KVM's cost - they might be horrificly expensive if you dont get one as standard with your hosting. HP and 'cheap' aren't two words that I naturally associate. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Pete French <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > KVM requires you to physically _be_ at the colo. > > ?! Not the one I have for our colo - it's a little java app > where I choose a machine from a dropdown and get the video > in a window on the desktop. That's an out of the ordinary KVM. Would you mind passing on the manufacturer of that unit, I'd like to recommend that unit to a number of clients/associates of mine. The point is that a normal, run of the mill KVM doesn't have that capability. > > A serial console with an IP address and ssh capabilities (which is easy to > > set up, or fairly inexpensive to purchase) allows you access to the system > > as if you're sitting at it, over ssh. > > Ah, O.K. sounds fairly similar to what I have. Preseumably you can get at > BIOS settings and stuff like that too ? > > Still don't see the advantage to be honest, but thanks for the explanation. With a networkable KVM like you've got, there is no real advantage that I can see (unless you're doing kernel debugging, but that's a pretty advanced topic) But compare your KVM to a typical, non-networkable KVM and you get the same idea of what I was thinking when I compared a serial console to a KVM. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> KVM requires you to physically _be_ at the colo. ?! Not the one I have for our colo - it's a little java app where I choose a machine from a dropdown and get the video in a window on the desktop. > A serial console with an IP address and ssh capabilities (which is easy to > set up, or fairly inexpensive to purchase) allows you access to the system > as if you're sitting at it, over ssh. Ah, O.K. sounds fairly similar to what I have. Preseumably you can get at BIOS settings and stuff like that too ? Still don't see the advantage to be honest, but thanks for the explanation. -pcf. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Pete French <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Colocation that does not include serial console access is IMHO worthless. > > i;ve been following this discussion with interest - what advantages does > a serial concolse give you over a colo's standard KVM access ? I've > never used a serial consolve with FreeBSD, though I see the phrase crop > up a lot. KVM requires you to physically _be_ at the colo. A serial console with an IP address and ssh capabilities (which is easy to set up, or fairly inexpensive to purchase) allows you access to the system as if you're sitting at it, over ssh. i.e. using a serial console you can boot a different kernel, remotely, see the messages that come up when a kernel panics, etc ... Most of the stuff you could do if you have physical access, without requiring physical access. A serial console allows you to do a proper upgrade remotely, because you can still access the system when it's in single user mode. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> Colocation that does not include serial console access is IMHO worthless. i;ve been following this discussion with interest - what advantages does a serial concolse give you over a colo's standard KVM access ? I've never used a serial consolve with FreeBSD, though I see the phrase crop up a lot. -pcf. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:09:09AM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > >Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. > > >The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the > > >chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an > > >excellent > > >example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about > > >syslogd?) > > > > This is complete nonsense. > > Yes, and no. > > As was pointed out, the install process does not "cp", so it doesn't have > to deal with this problem. I was wrong. However, it's still true that > you can't copy over an executable in use, it's just easy to work around > it. > > > >On a production system, you should have a serial terminal connected so you > > >can go to single-user mode remotely to do updates. There are fairly > > >inexpensive serial terminal boxes available from a number of vendors, and > > >if you have a spare machine available, you can always hook it up as a > > >serial terminal. > > > > I was talking about a colocation situation, where you most likely will > > never see the machine. Networked console boards are usually available > > but may not always be cost effective. I would agree that such a board > > may be a necessity in a high profile production server but if you are a > > small company, or use a machine privately, the extra cost often > > outweighs the gain. And a good colo hoster usually also has qualified > > staff. > > Who are you using for colo? I'd like to contact them. > > Unless your server is utterly unimportant, the last thing you want to > have happen is an upgrade where the kernel doesn't boot and you have a > dead system until someone can hook a console to it. > > Most colos I've seen charge you a premium to have someone hook a console > up for you. I asked one how much it would cost to hook up a serial console > and give it an IP for one month, and their response was "we don't do that, > you have to pay our tech $160/hour to sit on the phone with you and enter > what you want." While this seems to be a worst case scenerio, it doesn't > seem to be an uncommon attitude. > > A lesson to all of you, when you choose a colo, don't just look at the > cost of having your box sit there - estimate the cost of doing maintenance > and handling problems, those are hidden costs where many colos will rape > you. Colocation that does not include serial console access is IMHO worthless. The costs associated with having one of their people do anything other than maintain/replace failed hardware (which is part of their job if you are renting the hardware from them) is astronomical - both in terms of money and time wasted. Neither should be considered accepted - to anyone. Most colo providers are worthless in this regard. They just "don't get it". -- -- Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.netMy home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.comMusings Of A Sentient Mind ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. > >The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the > >chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent > >example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about syslogd?) > > This is complete nonsense. Yes, and no. As was pointed out, the install process does not "cp", so it doesn't have to deal with this problem. I was wrong. However, it's still true that you can't copy over an executable in use, it's just easy to work around it. > >On a production system, you should have a serial terminal connected so you > >can go to single-user mode remotely to do updates. There are fairly > >inexpensive serial terminal boxes available from a number of vendors, and > >if you have a spare machine available, you can always hook it up as a > >serial terminal. > > I was talking about a colocation situation, where you most likely will > never see the machine. Networked console boards are usually available > but may not always be cost effective. I would agree that such a board > may be a necessity in a high profile production server but if you are a > small company, or use a machine privately, the extra cost often > outweighs the gain. And a good colo hoster usually also has qualified > staff. Who are you using for colo? I'd like to contact them. Unless your server is utterly unimportant, the last thing you want to have happen is an upgrade where the kernel doesn't boot and you have a dead system until someone can hook a console to it. Most colos I've seen charge you a premium to have someone hook a console up for you. I asked one how much it would cost to hook up a serial console and give it an IP for one month, and their response was "we don't do that, you have to pay our tech $160/hour to sit on the phone with you and enter what you want." While this seems to be a worst case scenerio, it doesn't seem to be an uncommon attitude. A lesson to all of you, when you choose a colo, don't just look at the cost of having your box sit there - estimate the cost of doing maintenance and handling problems, those are hidden costs where many colos will rape you. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >bash-2.05b$ su >Password: >bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. >bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. >cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy >bolivia# > >Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running >normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. drjekyll:~$ cp /bin/sh foo drjekyll:~$ ./foo drjekyll$ cp /bin/sh foo cp: foo: Text file busy drjekyll$ install /bin/sh foo drjekyll$ echo $? 0 Guess why it's not using "cp"? mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. >The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the >chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent >example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about syslogd?) This is complete nonsense. >On a production system, you should have a serial terminal connected so you >can go to single-user mode remotely to do updates. There are fairly >inexpensive serial terminal boxes available from a number of vendors, and >if you have a spare machine available, you can always hook it up as a >serial terminal. I was talking about a colocation situation, where you most likely will never see the machine. Networked console boards are usually available but may not always be cost effective. I would agree that such a board may be a necessity in a high profile production server but if you are a small company, or use a machine privately, the extra cost often outweighs the gain. And a good colo hoster usually also has qualified staff. mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
>> Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. >> The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the >> chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent >> example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about >syslogd?) >Actually, it can. install goes to great lengths to make sure that it >carefully moves the executable out of the way before replacing it. It >won't go away until the last process to be executing out of it goes >away. >> That being said, I quite often do installworld on running systems because I >> have no way to go to single-user mode. It almost always works well enough >> for my purposes, but I don't want anyone to think that it's "OK" to do this, >> as it's not guaranteed to work, and will most likely result in some programs >> not being updated (such as the examples in the previous paragraphs). >It usually works well enough most of the time. I do it all the time >on my development machines. The problem is "well enough" and "most of >the time." >Warner I, for one, can attest to that. To the OP, the thing to watch out for is that just make sure that the machine isn't busy enough (stop all daemons under /usr/local/etc/rc.d/, under /etc/rc.d, just so that the machine's resources are being spent on the upgrade process), then do the make world dance. I've done it remotely a lot of times, the thing is you just have to simulate the process locally(if you have some spare resources, perhaps a VM?), to avoid potential problems. Here's a snippet from my one of my notes back in the 4.X days: ++ Upgrade path from 4.4Rp47 to 4.10R Issues to deal: 1) SSH Daemon Create the user/group # pw groupadd -n sshd -g 22 # pw useradd -n sshd -u 22 -g sshd -c "Secure Shell Daemon" -md /var/empty -s /sbin/nologin /var/empty must be: # ls -al /var/ dr-xr-xr-x 2 rootwheel schg 512 Oct 27 2003 empty 2) Sendmail a) Create the smmsp user/group # pw groupadd -n smmsp -g 25 # pw useradd -n smmsp -u 25 -g smmsp -c "Sendmail Submission User" -md /var/spool/clientmqueue -s /sbin/nologin make sure that /var/spool/clientmqueue and everyting under is owned by smmsp:smmsp and rwx by this user/group [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/spool# dir /var/spool/clientmqueue/ rw--- 1 smmsp smmsp - 97 Jun 22 15:53 sm-client.pid If NOT: # chown -Rv smmsp:smmsp /var/spool/clientmqueue # chmod 770 /var/spool/clientmqueue b) Create the mailnull user/group # pw groupadd -n mailnull -g 26 # pw useradd -n mailnull -u 26 -g mailnull -c "Sendmail Default User" -md /var/spool/mqueue -s /sbin/nologin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/var/spool# dir /var/spool/ drwxr-xr-x 2 root daemon - 512 Jun 23 03:02 mqueue drwxr-xr-x 2 root daemon - 512 Jun 22 03:01 mqueue.in drwx-- 2 root daemon - 512 Oct 27 2003 opielocks drwxr-xr-x 3 root daemon - 512 Apr 30 01:06 output Aliases file (/etc/mail/aliases): Add these: mailnull: postmaster smmsp: postmaster sshd: root +++ Once the above issues where addressed, the build/install world went fine. This was when I was in a situation that I needed to install a port and wouldn't install on a 4.4R ( name of port escapes me ;-) cheers mars PS My first email via my gmail account was blocked: +++ This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Technical details of permanent failure: PERM_FAILURE: SMTP Error (state 10): 554 Service unavailable; Client host [64.233.162.201] blocked using bl.spamcop.net; Blocked - see http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?64.233.162.201 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> Apparenlty, nobody who is claiming this has _tried_ it. Try it yourself Apparently yo misunderstood what people were claiming. Nobody said you can modify a running binary, merely that you can replace it. try deleting it and writing a new one. it does work, I do this all the time! -pcf. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:34:37 -0600 (MDT) Warner Losh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: Newbie Question About System Update > Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:32:37 -0400 > > > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > > > > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file > > > after > > > it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file > > > descriptor. > > > This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same > > > problems > > > that platforms like Windows have. > > > > What you say?: > > > > bash-2.05b$ su > > Password: > > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > > bolivia# > > mv /usr/sbin/cron /usr/sbin/cron- > cp /blah/cron /usr/sbin/cron > > install does this behind the scenes. I suppose I have to stand corrected. Thanks for putting me straight. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 04:32:54PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > (I don't think this original quote is Warner's, but I lost the poster's name somewhere) > > That being said, I quite often do installworld on running systems because I > > have no way to go to single-user mode. It almost always works well enough > > for my purposes, but I don't want anyone to think that it's "OK" to do this, > > as it's not guaranteed to work, and will most likely result in some programs > > not being updated (such as the examples in the previous paragraphs). > > It usually works well enough most of the time. I do it all the time > on my development machines. The problem is "well enough" and "most of > the time." > > Warner This is why, as I said, I test it on a sacrificial box--that box has almost identical hardware to the remote servers. I'm fortunate to have that setup though. - -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Anya: Listen, I have this little project I'm working on, and I heard you were the person to ask if... Willow: Yeah, that's me. Reliable dog-geyser-person. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCZYv2+lTVdes0Z9YRAu4XAKCWnpuYcpup0sAJLq0jwMBdsjyfRwCfatUE loSv7s/m8GWjVujZ++XIcQo= =oMwG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
From: Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Newbie Question About System Update Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:32:37 -0400 > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file > > after > > it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file descriptor. > > This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same > > problems > > that platforms like Windows have. > > What you say?: > > bash-2.05b$ su > Password: > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > bolivia# mv /usr/sbin/cron /usr/sbin/cron- cp /blah/cron /usr/sbin/cron install does this behind the scenes. Warner ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. > The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the > chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent > example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about syslogd?) Actually, it can. install goes to great lengths to make sure that it carefully moves the executable out of the way before replacing it. It won't go away until the last process to be executing out of it goes away. > That being said, I quite often do installworld on running systems because I > have no way to go to single-user mode. It almost always works well enough > for my purposes, but I don't want anyone to think that it's "OK" to do this, > as it's not guaranteed to work, and will most likely result in some programs > not being updated (such as the examples in the previous paragraphs). It usually works well enough most of the time. I do it all the time on my development machines. The problem is "well enough" and "most of the time." Warner ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tuesday 19 April 2005 22:25, Karl Denninger wrote: > > > > My attitude is that if you don't boot -s, you are simply playing > > Russian-roulette with your system. Some day, it will bite you. > > > > Kent > > Not if your update procedure saves the old kernel. > > Yes, you will have to get there to recover. You have to get there (either > physically or serial console) anyway if it blows up on you. The only problem I can see with this is if one of the more exotic disk controller drivers or file systems drivers goes homicidal (diskicidal?). Booting multi, you will automount all your big disks and arrays giving the drivers the chance to wreak havoc before you can do much about it. This seems pretty unlikely on -STABLE though. You're still in trouble though because you've probably lost / which probably contains the backup of the old kernel. In conclusion, its probably best if disk controller drivers and filesystem drivers don't have bugs in them. Mark pgpnPo205kKDu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Hi, If you are working with a remote system, you should probably be using the "nextboot" utility for testing a new kernel after your "make buildworld", "make buildkernel" and "make installkernel". >From nextboot's man page : --- DESCRIPTION The nextboot utility allows specifying an alternate kernel and/or boot flags for the next time the machine is booted. Once the loader(8) loads in the new kernel information, it is deleted so in case the new kernel hangs the machine, once it is rebooted, the machine will automatically revert to its previous configuration. --- Just rename your new kernel and put back the backup as the default. You should probably also edit '/etc/rc.conf' to disable your services (except sshd of course! :D). Then, proceed with "nextboot -k $newkernelname". If everything works fine, you can set the new kernel as the default and finish your update with "mergemaster -p", "make installworld" and "mergemaster". If your are confident, you can reanable all your services in '/etc/rc.conf' and reboot one last time. Otherwise, you can test your services and reenable them one by one. WARNING: Bad things may and will probably happen if you forget to set your new kernel as the default after finishing your update. Your system might not come back online on your next reboot because you will have an old kernel with new system binaries. Have fun! -js - Original Message - From: "Kent Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cc: "Dan Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bill Moran" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Newbie Question About System Update > On Tuesday 19 April 2005 01:39 pm, Dan Nelson wrote: > > You are forgetting that one of the real purposes of the boot -s is to > test your new kernel. If you have never been bitten by a kernel that > would only panic, you have no problems. If you have, you know that you > can boot the old kernel and continue without any problems until some > one solves the panic. You will not most likely hit that situation on a > security based version but this is freebsd-stable and it can happen at > any time. > > My attitude is that if you don't boot -s, you are simply playing > Russian-roulette with your system. Some day, it will bite you. > > Kent ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 02:02:04PM -0700, Kent Stewart wrote: > On Tuesday 19 April 2005 01:39 pm, Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (Apr 19), Bill Moran said: > > > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > > > > > > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access > > > > a file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on > > > > to a file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, > > > > without running into the same problems that platforms like > > > > Windows have. > > > > > > What you say?: > > > > > > bash-2.05b$ su > > > Password: > > > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > > > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > > > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > > > bolivia# > > > > > > Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running > > > normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. > > > > What you can do, however, is: create the new file under a temporary > > name, delete the original, and rename the temp file to the orignal's > > name, which is what /usr/bin/install does. I've done many > > installworlds on running systems without problems. > > You are forgetting that one of the real purposes of the boot -s is to > test your new kernel. If you have never been bitten by a kernel that > would only panic, you have no problems. If you have, you know that you > can boot the old kernel and continue without any problems until some > one solves the panic. You will not most likely hit that situation on a > security based version but this is freebsd-stable and it can happen at > any time. > > My attitude is that if you don't boot -s, you are simply playing > Russian-roulette with your system. Some day, it will bite you. > > Kent Not if your update procedure saves the old kernel. Yes, you will have to get there to recover. You have to get there (either physically or serial console) anyway if it blows up on you. The old kernel (and loadables for it) should ALWAYS be saved when updating "in place", lest you discover exactly what you're warning about the hard way. -- -- Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.netMy home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.comMusings Of A Sentient Mind ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tuesday 19 April 2005 01:39 pm, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Apr 19), Bill Moran said: > > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > > > > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access > > > a file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on > > > to a file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, > > > without running into the same problems that platforms like > > > Windows have. > > > > What you say?: > > > > bash-2.05b$ su > > Password: > > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > > bolivia# > > > > Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running > > normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. > > What you can do, however, is: create the new file under a temporary > name, delete the original, and rename the temp file to the orignal's > name, which is what /usr/bin/install does. I've done many > installworlds on running systems without problems. You are forgetting that one of the real purposes of the boot -s is to test your new kernel. If you have never been bitten by a kernel that would only panic, you have no problems. If you have, you know that you can boot the old kernel and continue without any problems until some one solves the panic. You will not most likely hit that situation on a security based version but this is freebsd-stable and it can happen at any time. My attitude is that if you don't boot -s, you are simply playing Russian-roulette with your system. Some day, it will bite you. Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 04:32:37PM -0400, Bill Moran wrote: > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file > > after > > it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file descriptor. > > This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same > > problems > > that platforms like Windows have. > > What you say?: > > bash-2.05b$ su > Password: > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > bolivia# > > Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running > normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. > > Apparenlty, nobody who is claiming this has _tried_ it. Try it yourself > and see. You can _not_ replace programs that have their Text section > in use (i.e. the code) because the demand pager has that area of the > file locked. You apparently cannot modify a program that is in use. What you *can* do is delete it and create a new file with the same name. Try using 'cp -f' instead of plain 'cp'. (Or use the install(1) utility, which is what installworld normally uses, which also unlinks the old file before creating the new.) -- Erik Trulsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
In the last episode (Apr 19), Bill Moran said: > Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Bill Moran wrote: > > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a > > file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to > > a file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, without > > running into the same problems that platforms like Windows have. > > What you say?: > > bash-2.05b$ su > Password: > bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. > bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. > cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy > bolivia# > > Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running > normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. What you can do, however, is: create the new file under a temporary name, delete the original, and rename the temp file to the orignal's name, which is what /usr/bin/install does. I've done many installworlds on running systems without problems. -- Dan Nelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bill Moran wrote: > > The system can not replace programs that are in use, > > This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file > after > it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file descriptor. > This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same problems > that platforms like Windows have. What you say?: bash-2.05b$ su Password: bolivia# cp /usr/sbin/cron /home/wmoran/. bolivia# cp /home/wmoran/cron /usr/sbin/. cp: /usr/sbin/./cron: Text file busy bolivia# Notice that /usr/sbin/cron is in use (because my system is running normally) I can copy _from_ that file, but I can not overwrite it. Apparenlty, nobody who is claiming this has _tried_ it. Try it yourself and see. You can _not_ replace programs that have their Text section in use (i.e. the code) because the demand pager has that area of the file locked. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 04:05:10PM -0400, Scott Robbins wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 09:36:57PM +0200, K?vesd?n G?bor wrote: > > > > >This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a > > >file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a > > >file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, without > > >running into the same problems that platforms like Windows have. > > > > Though this is true, I discourage You to upgrade a running system. I > > tried to upgarde 5.3-RELEASE to 5-STABLE without booting to single user > > mode. I simply sent a TERM signal to most of the processes, and tried to > > make installworld. There was some error messages, the system crashed and > > didn't boot anymore... > > There are a couple of servers that I have to upgrade remotely when > necessary. They are active during the working day and almost unused at > night--I just make sure the users know to not leave any files (two are > samba servers as well as doing other things) open if I'm planning an > upgrade--I'm fortunate that my users work with me, and there are only > two who have to be reminded, and neither gives me an argument about it. > > I'm never happy about doing it that way, but what I do is after the > reboot, shut down the various daemons and do the install world and > mergemaster. (This is only after testing the builds on a sacrificial > workstation). > > (And of course the obvious--DO NOT shut down the sshd daemon.) :) > > Ok, everyone who has NEVER ever made that mistake (or locked themself > out with a firewall rule, accidentally putting it into effect before > testing) raise their hand. :) > > > - -- > > Scott > > GPG KeyID EB3467D6 > ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 When I ran my ISP I updated FreeBSD "hot" all the time. I would build and verify on a "sandbox", and had a piece of custom software (two pieces, actually, a "sender" and "receiver") that would do the moral equivalent of an "rcp" but with moving and then unlinking each executable as it ran (looked at the "x" flag to see if something was executable), adjusting permissions after each file was moved. It was smart enough not to tamper with itself, of course :-> Then the cluster control daemon was told to reboot and off she went. Never got burned doing this; I used to update a cluster consisting of a LOT of machines - we had a window scheduled for it, so customers were warned, but in general due to the way the clustering software worked you'd be lucky if you even noticed unless you were logged into a shell account (at which point you'd lose the telnet session and have to sign back in) The "rolling update" was completely transparent to our web hosting customers (their processes would be assigned to a different machine before each was copied to the new code) It worked fabulously. I've still got the code around somewhere, and I can't imagine why it wouldn't work on the 5.x branch - there's nothing magical that's changed enough to cause trouble with it that I can see. -- -- Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Internet Consultant & Kids Rights Activist http://www.denninger.netMy home on the net - links to everything I do! http://scubaforum.org Your UNCENSORED place to talk about DIVING! http://www.spamcuda.net SPAM FREE mailboxes - FREE FOR A LIMITED TIME! http://genesis3.blogspot.comMusings Of A Sentient Mind ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 09:36:57PM +0200, K?vesd?n G?bor wrote: > > >This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a > >file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a > >file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, without > >running into the same problems that platforms like Windows have. > > Though this is true, I discourage You to upgrade a running system. I > tried to upgarde 5.3-RELEASE to 5-STABLE without booting to single user > mode. I simply sent a TERM signal to most of the processes, and tried to > make installworld. There was some error messages, the system crashed and > didn't boot anymore... There are a couple of servers that I have to upgrade remotely when necessary. They are active during the working day and almost unused at night--I just make sure the users know to not leave any files (two are samba servers as well as doing other things) open if I'm planning an upgrade--I'm fortunate that my users work with me, and there are only two who have to be reminded, and neither gives me an argument about it. I'm never happy about doing it that way, but what I do is after the reboot, shut down the various daemons and do the install world and mergemaster. (This is only after testing the builds on a sacrificial workstation). (And of course the obvious--DO NOT shut down the sshd daemon.) :) Ok, everyone who has NEVER ever made that mistake (or locked themself out with a firewall rule, accidentally putting it into effect before testing) raise their hand. :) - -- Scott GPG KeyID EB3467D6 ( 1B848 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 D575 EB34 67D6) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6 Buffy: I'm gonna give you all a nice, fun, normal evening if I have to kill every person on the face of the Earth to do it. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFCZWR2+lTVdes0Z9YRApEVAJ4yccCFO7ThWLaJsM52mbP0aQkMAQCgsXfn eDogdcBoD5jpMJe8CO8xiWg= =IyKf -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same problems that platforms like Windows have. Though this is true, I discourage You to upgrade a running system. I tried to upgarde 5.3-RELEASE to 5-STABLE without booting to single user mode. I simply sent a TERM signal to most of the processes, and tried to make installworld. There was some error messages, the system crashed and didn't boot anymore... ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Bill Moran wrote: Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ ... ] Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. True. It's better to shut down as many tasks as possible. The system can not replace programs that are in use, This is generally not the case. Unix lets you continue to access a file after it has been deleted, so long as the process hangs on to a file descriptor. This lets you replace programs in use, without running into the same problems that platforms like Windows have. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:28:39 -0400 > From: Bill Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I've been away from *NIX a few years. I have been playing with FreeBSD > > for a week or so now with mixed results. I am using release 4.11 > > because for some reason 5.3 has problems seeing my hard drives. 4.11, > > Red Hat Linux and NetBSD have no such trouble. > > > > This afternoon I used the "Updating Sources with CVSup" in the FreeBSD > > Cheat Sheets and everything worked as advertized. I believe that it > > advised against using "make world" and suggested that I use "19.4.1 The > > Canonical Way to Update Your System" in the Handbook. I went through > > the following steps with no problem: > > > > # make buildworld > > # make installworld > > # mergemaster > > # reboot > > This is not correct, and this is not what 19.4.1 says. The correct > procedure is as Mike Schultz described. Please review that section of > the handbook. > > If you did, indeed, do as you described, then you have a world that's > out of sync with your kernel. Try this: > 1) Boot in to single user mode > 2) fsck > 3) mount -a > 4) cd /usr/src > 5) make buildkernel > 6) make installkernel > 7) reboot > > If you're unable to complete those steps, then you may be better off > reinstalling and trying again - write it off as part of the learning > process. There are ways to restore your system if you've made this > mistake and the above doesn't work, but it's rather advanced stuff. The right answer is to read and follow the instructions in /usr/src/UPDATING. (They are near the bottom of the file.) The list above missed adjkerntz (not needed if the hardware clock is running UTC). Adding swapon -a is a good safety net, too. I was recently bitten when I forgot. But rather then generate more poor or incomplete examples for people to trip over, the canonical answer should be to follow the instructions in UPDATING. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer Energy Sciences Network (ESnet) Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone: +1 510 486-8634 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Matthias Buelow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >After that, I ran into problems. It took me a little while to figure > >out how to do "boot -s". However, it appears that a lot of the > >directories aren't mounted and the next scripts aren't in the path. For > >example, I can't figure out how to do the "mergemaster -p". > > You don't have to do it in single user mode, I never did. I don't know > why it is recommended that one boots in single user in the Makefile, > perhaps to get a quiescent system without any users and services that > would interfere. But that can also be achieved by stopping the > high-volume services on the machine after booting, and on a personal > machine (workstation PC) it doesn't matter anyways. Often it's not even > possible to boot into single-user, for example if you don't have > physical control over the machine (like in a co-lo situation). This isn't really true. Fact is, trying to update a running system could result in silent failures. The system can not replace programs that are in use, so there's always the chance that something or other won't get updated (cron would be an excellent example ... do you always shut cron off when you update? How about syslogd?) That being said, I quite often do installworld on running systems because I have no way to go to single-user mode. It almost always works well enough for my purposes, but I don't want anyone to think that it's "OK" to do this, as it's not guaranteed to work, and will most likely result in some programs not being updated (such as the examples in the previous paragraphs). On a production system, you should have a serial terminal connected so you can go to single-user mode remotely to do updates. There are fairly inexpensive serial terminal boxes available from a number of vendors, and if you have a spare machine available, you can always hook it up as a serial terminal. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've been away from *NIX a few years. I have been playing with FreeBSD > for a week or so now with mixed results. I am using release 4.11 > because for some reason 5.3 has problems seeing my hard drives. 4.11, > Red Hat Linux and NetBSD have no such trouble. > > This afternoon I used the "Updating Sources with CVSup" in the FreeBSD > Cheat Sheets and everything worked as advertized. I believe that it > advised against using "make world" and suggested that I use "19.4.1 The > Canonical Way to Update Your System" in the Handbook. I went through > the following steps with no problem: > > # make buildworld > # make installworld > # mergemaster > # reboot This is not correct, and this is not what 19.4.1 says. The correct procedure is as Mike Schultz described. Please review that section of the handbook. If you did, indeed, do as you described, then you have a world that's out of sync with your kernel. Try this: 1) Boot in to single user mode 2) fsck 3) mount -a 4) cd /usr/src 5) make buildkernel 6) make installkernel 7) reboot If you're unable to complete those steps, then you may be better off reinstalling and trying again - write it off as part of the learning process. There are ways to restore your system if you've made this mistake and the above doesn't work, but it's rather advanced stuff. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >After that, I ran into problems. It took me a little while to figure >out how to do "boot -s". However, it appears that a lot of the >directories aren't mounted and the next scripts aren't in the path. For >example, I can't figure out how to do the "mergemaster -p". You don't have to do it in single user mode, I never did. I don't know why it is recommended that one boots in single user in the Makefile, perhaps to get a quiescent system without any users and services that would interfere. But that can also be achieved by stopping the high-volume services on the machine after booting, and on a personal machine (workstation PC) it doesn't matter anyways. Often it's not even possible to boot into single-user, for example if you don't have physical control over the machine (like in a co-lo situation). mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
> Many thanks to all of you who very promptly gave me the information > necessary to progress beyond this point. Even at 70, I continue to learn. Very impressive! Good luck. regards Claus ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
Many thanks to all of you who very promptly gave me the information necessary to progress beyond this point. Even at 70, I continue to learn. I never know when I subscribe to a new list how newbie questions will be received. Based on this small sample, I am quite favorably impressed. Thanks again, Jim Campbell ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newbie Question About System Update
On Monday 18 April 2005 04:51 pm, Jim Campbell wrote: > I've been away from *NIX a few years. I have been playing with FreeBSD > for a week or so now with mixed results. I am using release 4.11 > because for some reason 5.3 has problems seeing my hard drives. 4.11, > Red Hat Linux and NetBSD have no such trouble. > > This afternoon I used the "Updating Sources with CVSup" in the FreeBSD > Cheat Sheets and everything worked as advertized. I believe that it > advised against using "make world" and suggested that I use "19.4.1 The > Canonical Way to Update Your System" in the Handbook. I went through > the following steps with no problem: > > # make buildworld > # make installworld > # mergemaster > # reboot This is how I do it: > # make buildworld > # make buildkernel > # make installkernel > # reboot > # make installworld > # mergemaster > # reboot -Mike ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
