Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2005-06-06 10:25:51 -0300: several linux distros have achieved a difficult goal: ease of installation-use combined with a stable system. (...) I think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really easy to use, and even more friendly or beatiful than windows. I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. (...) But I see it is not desktop oriented (I repeat, this seems ok for me. FreeBSD is better for a server station, not for a desktop). I use FreeBSD 4.x on my desktop machines, also with excellent results. I'm glad FreeBSD is different, that's why I use this OS and not Windows or another OS that runs breakneck to achieve its levels of idiot-friendliness. I see two fallacies in your post: * being further in the race to copycat Windows is an achievement. Gee, why aren't all these people using Linux then? * FreeBSD is a worse desktop operating system than Linux. How come I haven't noticed during the last few years? -- How many Vietnam vets does it take to screw in a light bulb? You don't know, man. You don't KNOW. Cause you weren't THERE. http://bash.org/?255991 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Did you guys already unmount your filesystem? On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 17:48:26 +0200, Oliver Fromme [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oliver Fromme wrote: I do look carefully every day, because it's my job. I work with various operating systems every day, including FreeBSD and Linux. From a professional I would expect a more mature and balanced approach, rather than my favorite OS is the best one and the others have no advantages. That's not what I wrote. FreeBSD is not the best. There is no such thing as the best, in general. Be real: there is a lot of diversity of OS out there and they all have advantages and disadvantages. Right. Everyone has to decide for himself which tool works best for his job. Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. You can run FreeBSD on your desktop at home because you have the skills, the time, the dedication. For most standard applications it doesn't require any more skills (or time, or dedication) than with any other OS. In fact, getting some applications to work correctly under, say, Windows requires more skills (and time, and dedication) sometimes. You are special. Every human being is special Right. I don't disagree with you there. [...] They do not share your view. I do not share your view. This does not make us liars. Uhm, what are you talking about? I've never called you a liar. But those people who claim that FreeBSD is only suitable for servers and Linux is only suitable for desk- tops -- those are liars. There are plenty of counter- examples. I am moving my servers from Linux to FreeBSD, because FreeBSD gives me the manageability, stability and security that are more important to my clients than the bleeding edge features that often make it into Linux first. I am generally inclined toward Open Source software over proprietary one, but will pragmatically mix and match to obtain what works best for me rather than dogmatically pretend that my favorite OS is the best and its filesystem is the brightest and its license is the only acceptable distribution form. I agree 100%. Most of my machines (i.e. the machines which I own or which I'm responsible for to operate) run FreeBSD, but some also run Linux (Debian), Solaris or Windows. I used to have OpenBSD, too, but it stopped working for me (a long story). And currently I'm evaluating to move one of my privat machines from FreeBSD to DragonFly BSD, because some of its features would be very useful. Still, of all of those systems, FreeBSD is (currently) my favourite. It's particularly versatile to work well for all kinds of different purposes, including servers _and_ desktops. Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: is there anybody out there with the skills to cleanly solve this shameful situation in which rebooting FreeBSD results in unclean mounting of ext2 (and potentially other) volumes? A umount command in rc.shutdown should be a feasible work-around. Fixing the driver is probably not a high-priority, because not many users are affected by the problem, I guess. (But then again: It's open source, so you can try to fix it yourself.) Best regards Oliver PS: I think this should rather move to the -chat list. -- Ronald Klop Amsterdam, The Netherlands ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Maxi Combina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I have used the ext2fs driver for exactly one reason: to migrate data from Linux to FreeBSD on machines which are being converted from the Dark Side. And that I do not seed the need of insult other OS. And I do not see any insult. (If you're referring to the Dark Side pun, then maybe you should check whether /dev/irony is working correctly for you. I really thought it wouldn't be necessary to add a smiley in that place, but unfortunately I seemed to be wrong.) Even worse if the other OS is open source (as linux). Being open source doesn't mean that a piece of software is any good. In fact, I've seen a lot of open source which is just plain crap. (OK, now _this_ is an insult, but I didn't mention any specific software in particular.) Linux has its _really_ good points. Well, I don't see any. But everybody is free to have his own opinion. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co KG, Oettingenstr. 2, 80538 München Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. IRIX is about as stable as a one-legged drunk with hypothermia in a four-hundred mile per hour wind, balancing on a banana peel on a greased cookie sheet -- when someone throws him an elephant with bad breath and a worse temper. -- Ralf Hildebrandt ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
I do not seed the need of insult other OS. May be you need to look more carefully. I am not talking _only_ about this thread. As I said, I dont wanna flame, just reflecting (or trying to :) ) Even worse if the other OS is open source (as linux). Being open source doesn't mean that a piece of software is any good. In fact, I've seen a lot of open source which is just plain crap. (OK, now _this_ is an insult, but I didn't mention any specific software in particular.) Totally agree. Well, I don't see any. But everybody is free to have his own opinion. Well, I insist: maybe you should look more carefully :) Just to mention the first thing that comes to my mind: several linux distros have achieved a difficult goal: ease of installation-use combined with a stable system. I have no trouble with a diffucult / unix-like OS, but a lot of people do. And this a _fact_.They dont have time to spend learning to use a dificult OS. And I think that if we want to tell more and more people (friends, family, goverment, companies, etc) to move to an open source OS, we must do an effort. I think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really easy to use, and even more friendly or beatiful than windows. I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. I dont think there is need. FreeBSD is more suitable for a server station, but not for the desktop. I use linux both as server and desktop with excelent results. I am using FreeBSD since a few weeks ago, also with excelents resutls. But I see it is not desktop oriented (I repeat, this seems ok for me. FreeBSD is better for a server station, not for a desktop). I dont think that there is an OS that is the best for all the purposes. Use windows if you want to play the latest games. Use *BSD if you want or need a really good unix. Use linux if .. ( fill in the blanks ;) ) Please let me know if you dont agree, and why. Best regards, Maxi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Maxi Combina wrote: companies, etc) to move to an open source OS, we must do an effort. I think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really easy to use, and even more friendly or beatiful than windows. I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. I dont think there is need. FreeBSD is more suitable for a server station, but not for the desktop. I use linux both as server and desktop with excelent results. If you want a Unix desktop, like most likely many people on this mailing list want, or need, you can use FreeBSD aswell as Linux but not Windows (even with things like UWin or Cygwin, it's a pain). I don't understand this we need to compete with Windows on the desktop thing. I've never considered Windows to be particularly useful as a desktop environment, why should the Unix systems compete with it? [And btw., please let's move this discussion to -advocacy, since it doesn't really belong on this list.] mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Maxi Combina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not seed the need of insult other OS. May be you need to look more carefully. I am not talking _only_ about this thread. You replied specifically to my mail, and you didn't mention any other threads. Well, I don't see any. But everybody is free to have his own opinion. Well, I insist: maybe you should look more carefully :) I do look carefully every day, because it's my job. I work with various operating systems every day, including FreeBSD and Linux. Just to mention the first thing that comes to my mind: several linux distros have achieved a difficult goal: ease of installation-use combined with a stable system. Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. Please let me know if you dont agree, and why. I don't agree, but I won't tell you why, because it is probably a waste of time. I've had this a thousand times before. Best regards Oliver -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co KG, Oettingenstr. 2, 80538 München Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. I invented Ctrl-Alt-Delete, but Bill Gates made it famous. -- David Bradley, original IBM PC design team ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Oliver Fromme wrote: I do look carefully every day, because it's my job. I work with various operating systems every day, including FreeBSD and Linux. From a professional I would expect a more mature and balanced approach, rather than my favorite OS is the best one and the others have no advantages. Be real: there is a lot of diversity of OS out there and they all have advantages and disadvantages. For as much as I love FreeBSD, it is not (and probably can't be) better than all OS on all comparisons. Diversity is good, most existing OS have their rightful place in the IT ecosystem. Just to mention the first thing that comes to my mind: several linux distros have achieved a difficult goal: ease of installation-use combined with a stable system. Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. You can run FreeBSD on your desktop at home because you have the skills, the time, the dedication. You are special. Every human being is special and there are plenty of us out there that have other skills and want to dedicate their time to something else (like http://www.photopla.net/pano.php?id=25). They do not share your view. I do not share your view. This does not make us liars. I am moving my servers from Linux to FreeBSD, because FreeBSD gives me the manageability, stability and security that are more important to my clients than the bleeding edge features that often make it into Linux first. I am generally inclined toward Open Source software over proprietary one, but will pragmatically mix and match to obtain what works best for me rather than dogmatically pretend that my favorite OS is the best and its filesystem is the brightest and its license is the only acceptable distribution form. Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: is there anybody out there with the skills to cleanly solve this shameful situation in which rebooting FreeBSD results in unclean mounting of ext2 (and potentially other) volumes? Yuv ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Can the two of you please take this bikeshed to -chat or wherever? Thank you, Wilko On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 11:00:41AM -0400, Yuval Levy wrote.. Oliver Fromme wrote: I do look carefully every day, because it's my job. I work with various operating systems every day, including FreeBSD and Linux. From a professional I would expect a more mature and balanced approach, rather than my favorite OS is the best one and the others have no advantages. Be real: there is a lot of diversity of OS out there and they all have advantages and disadvantages. For as much as I love FreeBSD, it is not (and probably can't be) better than all OS on all comparisons. Diversity is good, most existing OS have their rightful place in the IT ecosystem. Just to mention the first thing that comes to my mind: several linux distros have achieved a difficult goal: ease of installation-use combined with a stable system. Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. You can run FreeBSD on your desktop at home because you have the skills, the time, the dedication. You are special. Every human being is special and there are plenty of us out there that have other skills and want to dedicate their time to something else (like http://www.photopla.net/pano.php?id=25). They do not share your view. I do not share your view. This does not make us liars. I am moving my servers from Linux to FreeBSD, because FreeBSD gives me the manageability, stability and security that are more important to my clients than the bleeding edge features that often make it into Linux first. I am generally inclined toward Open Source software over proprietary one, but will pragmatically mix and match to obtain what works best for me rather than dogmatically pretend that my favorite OS is the best and its filesystem is the brightest and its license is the only acceptable distribution form. Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: is there anybody out there with the skills to cleanly solve this shameful situation in which rebooting FreeBSD results in unclean mounting of ext2 (and potentially other) volumes? Yuv ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- end of quoted text --- -- Wilko Bulte [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oliver Fromme wrote: I do look carefully every day, because it's my job. I work with various operating systems every day, including FreeBSD and Linux. From a professional I would expect a more mature and balanced approach, rather than my favorite OS is the best one and the others have no advantages. That's not what I wrote. FreeBSD is not the best. There is no such thing as the best, in general. Be real: there is a lot of diversity of OS out there and they all have advantages and disadvantages. Right. Everyone has to decide for himself which tool works best for his job. Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. You can run FreeBSD on your desktop at home because you have the skills, the time, the dedication. For most standard applications it doesn't require any more skills (or time, or dedication) than with any other OS. In fact, getting some applications to work correctly under, say, Windows requires more skills (and time, and dedication) sometimes. You are special. Every human being is special Right. I don't disagree with you there. [...] They do not share your view. I do not share your view. This does not make us liars. Uhm, what are you talking about? I've never called you a liar. But those people who claim that FreeBSD is only suitable for servers and Linux is only suitable for desk- tops -- those are liars. There are plenty of counter- examples. I am moving my servers from Linux to FreeBSD, because FreeBSD gives me the manageability, stability and security that are more important to my clients than the bleeding edge features that often make it into Linux first. I am generally inclined toward Open Source software over proprietary one, but will pragmatically mix and match to obtain what works best for me rather than dogmatically pretend that my favorite OS is the best and its filesystem is the brightest and its license is the only acceptable distribution form. I agree 100%. Most of my machines (i.e. the machines which I own or which I'm responsible for to operate) run FreeBSD, but some also run Linux (Debian), Solaris or Windows. I used to have OpenBSD, too, but it stopped working for me (a long story). And currently I'm evaluating to move one of my privat machines from FreeBSD to DragonFly BSD, because some of its features would be very useful. Still, of all of those systems, FreeBSD is (currently) my favourite. It's particularly versatile to work well for all kinds of different purposes, including servers _and_ desktops. Which brings me back to the topic of this thread: is there anybody out there with the skills to cleanly solve this shameful situation in which rebooting FreeBSD results in unclean mounting of ext2 (and potentially other) volumes? A umount command in rc.shutdown should be a feasible work-around. Fixing the driver is probably not a high-priority, because not many users are affected by the problem, I guess. (But then again: It's open source, so you can try to fix it yourself.) Best regards Oliver PS: I think this should rather move to the -chat list. -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co KG, Oettingenstr. 2, 80538 München Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. And believe me, as a C++ programmer, I don't hesitate to question the decisions of language designers. After a decent amount of C++ exposure, Python's flaws seem ridiculously small. -- Ville Vainio ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
On Monday 06 June 2005 17:02, Oliver Fromme wrote: Yup, I know the usual freebsd-for-servers and linux-for- desktops arguments. And to be honest, I'm fed up with them. They're lies. I'm running FreeBSD on my desktop at home, a lot of people are happily running Linux on their servers, and I've seen people successfully installing FreeBSD who have never even heard the word unix until that day. Please let me know if you dont agree, and why. http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/big-picture.html#faq-6.5 it's about the best programing language ... but if you replace programing language with OS it still applys. -- The sergeant walked into the shower and caught me giving myself a dishonorable discharge. Without missing a beat, I said, It's my dick and I can wash it as fast as I want! pgpUy6PTLo975.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Iulian M wrote: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/big-picture.html#faq-6.5 it's about the best programing language ... but if you replace programing language with OS it still applys. From the web page: Anyone who argues in favor of one language over another in a purely technical manner (i.e., who ignores the dominant business issues) exposes themself as a techie weenie, and deserves not to be heard. I wouldn't argue that the point the person wants to express doesn't have some truth in it but imho anyone who talks in such a condescending tone about tech weenies when they present logically sound arguments is someone who deserves not to be heard. mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:25:51AM -0300, Maxi Combina wrote: snipped for brevity combined with a stable system. I have no trouble with a diffucult / unix-like OS, but a lot of people do. And this a _fact_.They dont have time to spend learning to use a dificult OS. And I think that if we want to tell more and more people (friends, family, goverment, companies, etc) to move to an open source OS, we must do an effort. I word of mouth advertising is teh best most reliable form of advertising going ... good working examples performing well and in a stable manner is the best way of showing pwople that an operating system is worth concidering. especially if it is a college is using it (comfortably and assuredly) to do the job at hand. think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really easy to use, and even more friendly or beatiful than windows. I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. I dont think there is need. FreeBSD is more suitable for a server station, but not for the desktop. I use linux both as server and desktop with excelent results. servers can be managed by purpose built gui shells but they would needs be a very complicated and very very deep multi-leveled, many menued beast tehat would be an almost nightmare to navigate, eve if it were designed properly !!! user interfaces can be very well served by a text console or text shell .. basically it depends on what you grew up with and it is this dichotomy that is driving the current schism twix gui/non-gui users. each side has valid arguemnts .. but the truth lies in between teh two 'extremes', or so it has been shown to me over these few decades that i've watched this system develop, and so on. I am using FreeBSD since a few weeks ago, also with excelents resutls. But I see it is not desktop oriented (I repeat, this seems ok for me. FreeBSD is better for a server station, not for a desktop). i've been using computers to solve problems and provide solutions since os9 was a twinkle in its parents eyes (microware) and qnx was going ultra reliable realtime unix(alike) operating systems and teh text console was king .. then came novel os/2 and ms windows v3.11 each one was really hard to adjust too and dificult to change from untill i came to qwindows this was based upon an x11 distribution (forgot which one) but it was quick clean comfortable to use and gave me direct access to teh cli (command line interface) if it was needed and it was an easy and simple switch. all of teh current crop of gui's are not ! what i'm trying to say is tha these days in an effort to become easy to use the gui interface which sits on top off and between teh user and the operating system propper has become a very complicated and indeed very bloated and in some cases almost uslessly crippling user interface. perhaps, we (at freebsd) should settle upon a clean easyish simple and lightweight GUI that we accpet as the official freebsd gui and set up a dev team to set it up as the gui that freebsd uses to provide teh 'ease of use' most new users are looking for when they move from another gui'fied platform be it microsoft window, mac, or some other custom platform. thier whole task would be to work on integrating the freebsd gui into/with the freebsd oprating system but keeping it seperate so that it would be like a jacket one could put on when the weather turns bad or one goes from one environment to another .. to use another analogy. when one becomes aclimatised to teh new environment then to get better performance, easier usage and so forth then you could then take off the jecket (take out the gui environment) and use the raw or the cli shell that is the basic way most all operating systems have by way of teh users interoperating with the core of the operating system. I dont think that there is an OS that is the best for all the purposes. Use windows if you want to play the latest games. Use *BSD if you want or need a really good unix. Use linux if .. ( fill in the blanks ;) ) Please let me know if you dont agree, and why. i disagree .. not so much with wghat you have said, maxi, rather with the usage paterns that we have all sortof assumed are teh way things were, work etc, etc, at teh end of teh line all operating systems are really identicle, why ? because an operating system is the controls built into the cpu systems command protocol structure that feeds information to, retrieves information from, queue work streams for the cpu to process, move around its varions media channels. now that shell that we users see, use and or interface with this raw and basic level protocol system/language. now this interface level can be a direct 'text console' cli as in most unix like shells or the ever more popular graphical user interface - gui. over time the developers of these interface tools start to add stuff that makes teh job 'easier' to use untill the point that the whole system become so overgrown that one need special
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Vulpes Velox wrote: I have had the same problem with fat32 filesystems before also. I have ut2004 installed on a fatpartition on my dualboot machine. To make it accessible so that I can play it in freebsd aswell, I need to mount and unmount the drive from a rc.d script under /usr/local/etc/ rc.d/ to make sure it gets unmount. With out that, it does not properly unmount it. Odd.. I do not see that with msdosfs (vfat/fat32). I have: /dev/ad4s2 on /dos (msdosfs, local) and it always shuts down cleanly. How do you have it mounted? mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
yuval levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my opinion, an O/S that can not handle the most popular file systems is handicapped in a world of increasing diversity. Please excuse me jumping in here, but ext2/ext3 is certainly _not_ one of the most popular file systems for most members of this mailing list. Personally, I have used the ext2fs driver for exactly one reason: to migrate data from Linux to FreeBSD on machines which are being converted from the Dark Side. And that requires mounting the file system just once (read-only), copying the data, then umount it, followed by newfs. There's no need to even think about shutting down while the ext2fs is still mounted. I'd recommend against mounting any ext2/ext3 file systems permanently for sharing data between Linux and FreeBSD. There are better ways to do that. (The best way, of course, is getting rid of Linux in the first place.) Best regards Oliver PS: For what it's worth, the most popular filesystems for me are UFS/UFS2, NFS, ISO9660, UDF, and maybe FAT. No more. I guess for the majority of computer users the most popular filesystems are NTFS, ISO9660, FAT and maybe HFS, and they don't even know what ext2 is. :-) -- Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH Co KG, Oettingenstr. 2, 80538 München Any opinions expressed in this message may be personal to the author and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of secnetix in any way. FreeBSD is Yoda, Linux is Luke Skywalker -- Daniel C. Sobral ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
Personally, I have used the ext2fs driver for exactly one reason: to migrate data from Linux to FreeBSD on machines which are being converted from the Dark Side. And that I do not seed the need of insult other OS. Even worse if the other OS is open source (as linux). With this attitude we are NOT going to change anything. Linux has its _really_ good points. Windows too (altough personally I hate windows/microsoft, I must admit windows' advanteges). I do NOT pretend to start a flameware. I am just reflecting. Maxi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
filesystems not properly unmounted
Hello, I am running freebsd 5.4, and every time I reboot, I get a mesasge when the kernel is mounting the filesystems. It says that the fs were not properly unmounted, and must chek them. Them main concern is with my root partition. I also have en ext3 partition (which I mount as ext2), and the kernel also complains about this ext3 partition. The root partition is automatically checked, but the ext2 partition not! I have to manually run fsck.ext2 and then reboot again... I am _sure_ that I have rebooted in the right way. Well, at least with `reboot' and `halt'. May be this is not the right way? Am I missing something? Thanks in advance, Maxi ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Are you 100% sure u didn't use shutdown -p as I've seen this happen and its apparently due to IDE disks lying about when they have flushed all data to disk. Steve - Original Message - From: Maxi Combina [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello, I am running freebsd 5.4, and every time I reboot, I get a mesasge when the kernel is mounting the filesystems. It says that the fs were not properly unmounted, and must chek them. Them main concern is with my root partition. I also have en ext3 partition (which I mount as ext2), and the kernel also complains about this ext3 partition. The root partition is automatically checked, but the ext2 partition not! I have to manually run fsck.ext2 and then reboot again... I am _sure_ that I have rebooted in the right way. Well, at least with `reboot' and `halt'. May be this is not the right way? Am I missing something? This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Maxi Combina wrote: Hello, I am running freebsd 5.4, and every time I reboot, I get a mesasge when the kernel is mounting the filesystems. It says that the fs were not properly unmounted, and must chek them. Them main concern is with my root partition. I also have en ext3 partition (which I mount as ext2), and the kernel also complains about this ext3 partition. The root partition is automatically checked, but the ext2 partition not! I have to manually run fsck.ext2 and then reboot again... I am _sure_ that I have rebooted in the right way. Well, at least with `reboot' and `halt'. May be this is not the right way? Am I missing something? This is a known issue; explicitly unmount the ext2/ext3 filesystem before shutdown. mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:09:08 +0200, Maxi Combina [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am running freebsd 5.4, and every time I reboot, I get a mesasge when the kernel is mounting the filesystems. It says that the fs were not properly unmounted, and must chek them. Them main concern is with my root partition. I also have en ext3 partition (which I mount as ext2), and the kernel also complains about this ext3 partition. The root partition is automatically checked, but the ext2 partition not! I have to manually run fsck.ext2 and then reboot again... I am _sure_ that I have rebooted in the right way. Well, at least with `reboot' and `halt'. May be this is not the right way? Am I missing something? Are there errors on shutdown? -- Ronald Klop Amsterdam, The Netherlands ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Matthias Buelow wrote: Maxi Combina wrote: Hello, I am running freebsd 5.4, and every time I reboot, I get a mesasge when the kernel is mounting the filesystems. It says that the fs were not properly unmounted, and must chek them. Them main concern is with my root partition. I also have en ext3 partition (which I mount as ext2), and the kernel also complains about this ext3 partition. The root partition is automatically checked, but the ext2 partition not! I have to manually run fsck.ext2 and then reboot again... I am _sure_ that I have rebooted in the right way. Well, at least with `reboot' and `halt'. May be this is not the right way? Am I missing something? This is a known issue; explicitly unmount the ext2/ext3 filesystem before shutdown. mkb. Is it possible to fix this issue? from the description it seems to me that the issue got worse since freebsd 5.3 (assuming Maxi's root partition is ufs2). On a freebsd 5.3 box I am confronted with the ext2/ext3 issue as well, but it does not affect my root partition (ufs2). While this issue is affecting me only temporarely (I am waiting for a new RAID subsystem to migrate the data from ext3 to ufs2 and kiss Linux goodbye), I think it is an unacceptable issue in a production grade operating system. Thanks in advance to the knowledgeable person that will look into this and fix it. Yuv ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
* Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0647 15:47]: Is it possible to fix this issue? from the description it seems to me that the issue got worse since freebsd 5.3 (assuming Maxi's root partition is ufs2). If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? -- 'Ugh, it's like there's a party in my mouth and everyone's throwing up.' -- Fry Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
--- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0647 15:47]: Is it possible to fix this issue? from the description it seems to me that the issue got worse since freebsd 5.3 (assuming Maxi's root partition is ufs2). If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? Thank you for trying to help, but I do not find this reply helpful. That's a quick and dirty fix, not a solution. How would you feel if your car dealer would tell you that the car is just fine, you only have to remember, every time before you start it, to chew a gum and stick the chewing gum on that little hole from where some liquid spills before you start it? Quick and dirty fixes are ok for the short term, but this issue has been around for too long. I wish I had the knowledge to fix it... Yuv __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
yuval levy wrote: --- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0647 15:47]: Is it possible to fix this issue? from the description it seems to me that the issue got worse since freebsd 5.3 (assuming Maxi's root partition is ufs2). If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? Thank you for trying to help, but I do not find this reply helpful. That's a quick and dirty fix, not a solution. How would you feel if your car dealer would tell you that the car is just fine, you only have to remember, every time before you start it, to chew a gum and stick the chewing gum on that little hole from where some liquid spills before you start it? Quick and dirty fixes are ok for the short term, but this issue has been around for too long. I wish I had the knowledge to fix it... Bad analogy. It's not his responsibility to fix it either temporary or permanent. He's more like a another driver (just like you, driving a similar car/OS) that is passing by. He's suggesting a way for you to function (eg, get home) until a better/permanent fix is found. John -- John T. FarmerOwner CTOGoldSword Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] 865-691-6498 Knoxville TN Consulting, Design, Development of Networks Software ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
--- J. T. Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yuval levy wrote: --- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Yuval Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0647 15:47]: Is it possible to fix this issue? from the description it seems to me that the issue got worse since freebsd 5.3 (assuming Maxi's root partition is ufs2). If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? Thank you for trying to help, but I do not find this reply helpful. That's a quick and dirty fix, not a solution. How would you feel if your car dealer would tell you that the car is just fine, you only have to remember, every time before you start it, to chew a gum and stick the chewing gum on that little hole from where some liquid spills before you start it? Quick and dirty fixes are ok for the short term, but this issue has been around for too long. I wish I had the knowledge to fix it... Bad analogy. It's not his responsibility to fix it either temporary or permanent. He's more like a another driver (just like you, driving a similar car/OS) that is passing by. He's suggesting a way for you to function (eg, get home) until a better/permanent fix is found. John I did not imply it was his responsibility to fix the issue. Like you say, John, he is like another driver driving a similar car. We are both stuck with this issue. But I was talking of those driver considering this car model. Would you buy a car that is known to have issues? Anyway, I am just trying to stirr some talk and get some attention to an issue which I find important. Maybe somebody with the appropriate skills will read this and fix the issue. In my opinion, an O/S that can not handle the most popular file systems is handicapped in a world of increasing diversity. Even worse, in my opinion, is a O/S that has tools to handle a file system but does it in a way that can result in data loss. Users like me will see it as an O/S fault and will move to another O/S. As I stated when I first got into this issue, it is temporary for me since the machine affected will be migrated to UFS once the new RAID subsystem is installed. Nevertheless I believe that the issue is a serious handicap and should be fixed. I do not have the skills to fix it, else I'd give it a try. Is there anybody out there that know how to fix the problem of ext2 partitions in freebsd? Yuv __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
On Jun 2, 2005, at 4:56 PM, yuval levy wrote: If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? Thank you for trying to help, but I do not find this reply helpful. That's a quick and dirty fix, not a solution. [ ...car analogy snipped... ] Quick and dirty fixes are ok for the short term, but this issue has been around for too long. I wish I had the knowledge to fix it... There's a discussion on -current called Re: [RFC] [PATCH] VM VFS changes which may help resolve the issue of unmounting and flushing the tree of filesystems more cleanly, which you should look into and be willing to test as code comes out. -- -Chuck PS: I understand that you'd rather the underlying problem be fixed, but it's a lot easier to wish for things to happen than it is to code them. That's why hard problems tend to stay unfixed for long periods of time, and why people learn to use workarounds when they are offered. It would be more helpful if you either learned to fix the stuff you choose to complain about, or would at least gracefully accept workarounds which help, even if they may be quick and dirty fixes... ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
yuval levy wrote: Anyway, I am just trying to stirr some talk and get some attention to an issue which I find important. Maybe somebody with the appropriate skills will read this and fix the issue. Noone complains that people stir things up every now and then.. at least then the developers are reminded of the open PRs (or at least I hope so). ;-) Yet since developer time is a finite resource, I guess they have to enforce a priority ordering (I wouldn't count this particular bug as top priority, it can be easily circumvented by explicit unmounting, and I wouldn't rely on the robustness of the ext2 filesystem on FreeBSD anyways, and, isn't it read-only? I've only used it so far to copy stuff from it, and had been bitten by a 2Gig filesize limit then but that might be fixed by now, so things do indeed move there.) mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
* yuval levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0656 21:56]: --- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would you feel if your car dealer would tell you that the car is just fine, you only have to remember, every time before you start it, to chew a gum and stick the chewing gum on that little hole from where some liquid spills before you start it? That's a bad analogy - you only have to stick the gum in once :) I'm just being pragmatic - doing this will fix your problem, praying for improvements to the ext2 support (which I suspect is low priority for just about everyone) will probably take longer. -- 'The heroes claimed that they did care about people getting shot, so they crashed their cars into them instead.' -- DNA, on 'Starsky and Hutch' Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
On 2 Jun, Charles Swiger wrote: On Jun 2, 2005, at 4:56 PM, yuval levy wrote: If it's a pain to remeber, maybe try sticking something in rc.shutdown? Thank you for trying to help, but I do not find this reply helpful. That's a quick and dirty fix, not a solution. [ ...car analogy snipped... ] Quick and dirty fixes are ok for the short term, but this issue has been around for too long. I wish I had the knowledge to fix it... There's a discussion on -current called Re: [RFC] [PATCH] VM VFS changes which may help resolve the issue of unmounting and flushing the tree of filesystems more cleanly, which you should look into and be willing to test as code comes out. Nope, the ext2fs problem is different. It is caused by ext2fs holding persistent references to disk buffers that causes the kernel shutdown code to to think that not all the dirty buffers have been written to disk and skip unmounting all the file systems. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
--- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * yuval levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [0656 21:56]: --- Dick Davies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would you feel if your car dealer would tell you that the car is just fine, you only have to remember, every time before you start it, to chew a gum and stick the chewing gum on that little hole from where some liquid spills before you start it? That's a bad analogy - you only have to stick the gum in once :) assuming the gum holds... __ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Don Lewis wrote: Nope, the ext2fs problem is different. It is caused by ext2fs holding persistent references to disk buffers that causes the kernel shutdown code to to think that not all the dirty buffers have been written to disk and skip unmounting all the file systems. Can't that be changed in a way that the kernel checks that in a per-filesystem granularity instead of seemingly global? I mean, I can understand that a marginal ext2 fs driver can cause problems with ext2 filesystems, but affecting other filesystems aswell in such a way is not nice. mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
On 3 Jun, Matthias Buelow wrote: Don Lewis wrote: Nope, the ext2fs problem is different. It is caused by ext2fs holding persistent references to disk buffers that causes the kernel shutdown code to to think that not all the dirty buffers have been written to disk and skip unmounting all the file systems. Can't that be changed in a way that the kernel checks that in a per-filesystem granularity instead of seemingly global? I mean, I can understand that a marginal ext2 fs driver can cause problems with ext2 filesystems, but affecting other filesystems aswell in such a way is not nice. That might help to an extent, but would not eliminate the problem. Any file systems between root and the mount point of the ext2 file system would be busy and would not be able to be unmounted. They would still be marked dirty and would need to be fsck'ed after the reboot. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted
Don Lewis wrote: That might help to an extent, but would not eliminate the problem. Any file systems between root and the mount point of the ext2 file system would be busy and would not be able to be unmounted. They would still be marked dirty and would need to be fsck'ed after the reboot. Ah, ok. I think I understand how it works.. BTW., does the 2GB limit for files still apply for ext2 (mounted on FreeBSD, obviously)? I think I encountered this on 5.2.1 when ext2 was commented out from the kernel Makefile (as module) and marked as broken but I needed it (this was when I also encountered that won't clean buffers problem in the same way as the OP.) mkb. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
