Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > Per Inge Mathisen wrote: > So this is like today, only that you forget borders after a turn if > you do not see the border source? It is actually rather complicated, > and it does not answer my worry above that it will make borders hard > to visualize, due to the prevalence of FoW. > I see borders as a technique for constraining movement, rather than something to visualize. Leaving parts of old ones lying around seems more confusing to me. But, I only gave a rationale for cleaning them up. You don't seem to agree with my rationale ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > On 5/16/07, William Allen Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Given how much FoW you usually have, this will make your real borders > > really hard to visualize and plan with respect to. > > > > I do not really see a good and simple fix to this issue. We need to change > > the way either borders or the problematic map updates are done to make > > them consistent with each other. > > > Now, I have run into this problem, too. > > Here's my suggestion: > > 1. Foreign borders aren't "tile features" of the map, they are political. > > 2. When near a border with a unit, the border will appear, even when > you haven't seen the city that created it. It's not the place itself, > it's the workers, travelers, and minstrels that tell you about it. > > 3. When the border is no longer near, it should disappear after some > number of turns (1 turn would be very easy to code). So this is like today, only that you forget borders after a turn if you do not see the border source? It is actually rather complicated, and it does not answer my worry above that it will make borders hard to visualize, due to the prevalence of FoW. - Per ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > Per I. Mathisen wrote: > Given how much FoW you usually have, this will make your real borders > really hard to visualize and plan with respect to. > > I do not really see a good and simple fix to this issue. We need to change > the way either borders or the problematic map updates are done to make > them consistent with each other. > Now, I have run into this problem, too. Here's my suggestion: 1. Foreign borders aren't "tile features" of the map, they are political. 2. When near a border with a unit, the border will appear, even when you haven't seen the city that created it. It's not the place itself, it's the workers, travelers, and minstrels that tell you about it. 3. When the border is no longer near, it should disappear after some number of turns (1 turn would be very easy to code). 4. When a long term physical asset, my city or fortress, creates a border that is adjacent, then the foreign border should persist. 5. When a foreign city changes hands, even though I don't "see" the city or know whether it has been destroyed, the border should change (as it does now). After all, the fall of a city or an entire civilization is information that is reported far and wide. We hear rumors when a Wonder is started or finished, we certainly should hear about major battles, especially as they occur next to our border. That's logically different than whether trees have been cut down, or a mine built. 50 years is a really good long time for a political rumor to travel! ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, Jason Short wrote: > Not drawing borders under FOW is an interesting solution. If someone > will make a patch for it we can test it out and see if it's playable. Given how much FoW you usually have, this will make your real borders really hard to visualize and plan with respect to. I do not really see a good and simple fix to this issue. We need to change the way either borders or the problematic map updates are done to make them consistent with each other. - Per "If you can assume anything then you can prove anything." ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > Not drawing borders under FOW is an interesting solution. If someone will make a patch for it we can test it out and see if it's playable. That would mean owner information for fogged tiles would not be sent to the client (probably in maphand.c), and the drawing code would need to be changed slightly to not draw borders when either of the tiles involved is fogged (in tilespec.c). -jason ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#39342) 2.1.0-beta4 border vs. fog of war
http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > On 4/13/07, Karl-Ingo Friese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=39342 > > > Hello, > > another bug that has been in all the 2.1.0 beta > versions; I dont know if it has been reported yet: > > Even in terrain which is under fog of war; it is > possible to see "border changes". In other words; > if another nation builds a city in an area with fog > of war; I can not see the new city but the new borders > without traveling there again. > > Similiar, if a city is conquered, I still see it > belonging to the "former" nation, but with a new > border, allowing me to "guess" what happened before > sending a scoutship. > > Ingo > > -- > In pre-2.1 trunk, the borders weren't updated under FOW, but were left as the were the last time you 'explored' them. This had a very confusing effect, where the landscape constantly shifted when you moved in fogged terrain. It also cluttered the map with border artifacts if you didn't constantly 're-explore' your surroundings. Maybe a simpler and less noisy solution would be to simply not draw borders under FOW..? ~Daniel ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
