Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:39:23 +0200, you wrote: Hi Lucho, I agree. But I'm also sure that we'll live to see it! Our century will be the century of the downfall of empires... ;-G Look forward to see. I'm trying to run network on FreeDOS, but resources are scattered. Also sorry to see ARACHNE dropped. Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
This proves nothing: - you is liar? - no. OK, King of logic! ;) My logic is wrong but my assertion is right as you'll see. Qui prodest? the century of the downfall of empires... ;-G Oh, Lucho, please, make less general purpose loud sentences. OK. More specifically, the first empire to fall will be Megalosoft! ;-G Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:54:19 +0300 (MSK), you wrote: Hi Arkady, [ Declare: The following is MY point of view, I bear the responsibility, don't blame others! ] Do you hear, that MS was pay 500,000,000 US$, because some small firm say we patented idea of automatically launched applications and applets in IE may launched automatically? Yes, now USPTO cancels this patent, but there are a lot of more stupid patents - for example, in Australia, where patents law is same, as in US, someone patended idea of wheel? So the world is getting from bad to worse Stupid-stupid-stupid... But: dura lex, sed lex. Undortunately, many conressmans in USA think, that current patents law or laws like DMCA isn't stupid - whereas US government thinks, it may break law of other countries. Remember that FBI intrude into computers in Russia, when arrest russian hackers Gorshkov and Ivanov. Of course, those two guys was guilty, but FBI breaks both US and Russia laws when intrude into computers without order. Unfortunately, US judge was think, that US law not applied into Russia country, but Russia laws not rules for FBI. :( Luckily I'm politically neutral :-) Too bad no one (at least I didn't know from news or media) against the FBI for these superior-stupid action. They absolutely have NO RIGHT to break into other countries (or their own) users PC and check whatever inside. It's no different from break into your home and search for something they think it's illegal. Our great country keep doing THIS even nowadays, that's why I didn't call myself Chinese but Hong Kong Citizen, same logic as Taiwanese. This is the simplest form human right! Yet they break it themselves! In this case, who did break the law? What is a law? It build to protect people's rights! Sorry for any US people here, FBI really a shame of US. Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 09:22:41 +0200, you wrote: Hi Lucho, At least for the kernel, be sure that there is no such code. And that's impossible anyway since both the MS-DOS and DR-DOS kernels are 100% in Assembler). But your thoughts bring up an idea. Is there among the subscribers of this mailing list anyone who, albeit not a lawyer, understands the copyright/patent matter well enough to serve as our voluntary law consultant? IMO, usually the trouble from US (Sorry US guys here), can our US friends help us to find some lawyer friend(s) to help? Other country such as UK/Sweden or Europe laws also can be a good reference. Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
If the US or any country can drag someone into prison because of stealing idea They did this already. Remember the Adobe vs Elcomsoft (Dmitry Sklyarov) case. And they do this not only for stealing ideas, but also for simple disobedience (e.g. Slobodan Milosevic). this country or the world will come to an end soon. Yes, IV Reich will follow the fate of III Reich, II Reich and I Reich. All Empires end soon or later. And it depends on us! Especially on our US friends who live in the belly of the beast! FBI breaks both US and Russia laws when intrude into computers without order. Unfortunately, US judge was think, that US law not applied into Russia country, but Russia laws not rules for FBI. :( If even FBI which is supposed to deal with intra-US matters does that, what about CIA and NSA? Not stopping Washington means end of humanity Real Soon Now! Do you know they set a strike on Russia around 2010 (http://whiteworld.ruweb.info/rubriki/000111/002/02120301.htm - in Russian)? OK, sorry for the too much politics! I know that this has nothing to do with FreeDOS :-( Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
Hi! 21--2004 02:04 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johnson Lam) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: JL didn't know the law well, but I think after that long discussion some JL shape of safe (condom) come out. JL 1) Not to distribute the compiler package JL 2) Binary is safe to distribute (IMO it's a product of compiler, not A JL PART OF compiler) JL 3) Program don't have commercial code JL 4) No PART of the executable packer is distributed with the program But later someone may say: you stole may patended idea in your program. What you will do? --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 02:04:57 +0800, Johnson Lam wrote: Today afternoon I met BAHCL and have a nice talk with him. He did really afraid being sued because of a program that he only got no profit, no praises, and sweating long working hours of thinking and debugging. Sorry to hear that, and hope it won't happen! Can we help him out somehow? No PART of the executable packer is distributed with the program Since the capitalist didn't think in a way we think. Make sure everything OK is better. I think that there is some misunderstanding here. Who is the capitalist in the case of our executable compressor? Joergen Ibsen?! :-O He is a hard-programming worker just like all of us! Since both Tom and I are registered users of his aPack, I don't think that he would sue us! ;-) Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:09:16 +0200, you wrote: Hi Lucho, Sorry to hear that, and hope it won't happen! Can we help him out somehow? If he think PG need improve, he'll sent us news. Maybe he want to stop for a while. I think that there is some misunderstanding here. Who is the capitalist in the case of our executable compressor? Joergen Ibsen?! :-O He is a hard-programming worker just like all of us! Since both Tom and I are registered users of his aPack, I don't think that he would sue us! ;-) No. I didn't refer (this case) to anyone in real world. I just want to say taking a better position in the copyright war is necessary. Who know's someday maybe M$ popup and claim some code they own is the same as FreeDOS? Too much unexpected things happen, as I see from the clever SCO. Rgds, Johnson. Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:56:31 +0300 (MSK), you wrote: Hi Arkady, But later someone may say: you stole may patended idea in your program. What you will do? Did you watch Triumph of the Nerds or Pirate of Silion Valley? Strongly recommended :-) The law was GREATLY IMPROVED by them since Steve Job stole the idea from Xerox (I can accept), and then Bill Gates stole the look and feel of MacOS from Apple (tasteless move). I think stealing idea is legal, though Bill Gates stole MacOS's look and feel it's still legal, but just like Steve Job said No Taste at all If the US or any country can drag someone into prison because of stealing idea, this country or the world will come to an end soon. Because justice is no more, money wins all! Sorry for the strong words ... Rgds, Johnson. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
Hi! 21--2004 04:15 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Johnson Lam) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: But later someone may say: you stole may patended idea in your program. What you will do? JL If the US or any country can drag someone into prison because of JL stealing idea, this country or the world will come to an end soon. JL Because justice is no more, money wins all! Do you hear, that MS was pay 500,000,000 US$, because some small firm say we patented idea of automatically launched applications and applets in IE may launched automatically? Yes, now USPTO cancels this patent, but there are a lot of more stupid patents - for example, in Australia, where patents law is same, as in US, someone patended idea of wheel? Stupid-stupid-stupid... But: dura lex, sed lex. Undortunately, many conressmans in USA think, that current patents law or laws like DMCA isn't stupid - whereas US government thinks, it may break law of other countries. Remember that FBI intrude into computers in Russia, when arrest russian hackers Gorshkov and Ivanov. Of course, those two guys was guilty, but FBI breaks both US and Russia laws when intrude into computers without order. Unfortunately, US judge was think, that US law not applied into Russia country, but Russia laws not rules for FBI. :( --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:34:48 +0100, tom ehlert wrote: You may be able to do this Real Soon Now (in the FSF's sense, which means some months ;-) unlikely. changing the license (from GPL2 to GPL3) requires written consent from all contributors ;) ;) ;) ;) But I didn't mean that... ;-) Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:35:30 -0300, Alain wrote: Following SCO example, if we do that, _every_ FreeDOS user could be sued. That would be catastrophic. Wow! Did I hear right? Do you say this seriously? Who do you think could sue us, interestingly? And why would he do that? What we did wrong? Killed anybody? Stole anything? Only for one day, 1655 people voted at SlashDot that they use FreeDOS. I assume the real figure is much, much larger. Interestingly, how could someone sue tens of thousands of users? ;-) Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:42:52 +0100, tom ehlert wrote: and that's the point where it hurts: that I can't exepack KERNEL.SYS and FREECOM.COM with aPack to save some Kbyte You may be able to do this Real Soon Now (in the FSF's sense, which means some months ;-) Those tiny 200 bytes provoked the current wall of arguments, for which I thank you! You put a finger in the wound. It really hurts, I know. That's why I wrote my Savonarola-style sarcasm. And yet nobody noticed that it was a sarcasm! Why? Because we care more about the letter and not the spirit of the GPL. We're developers and will never be lawyers. Se let's come down to common sense and think... What is the goal of the GPL? Providing freedom and ensuring that nobody can deprive anybody from it. Do we provide freedom? Sure, by including source code with our work. Do we deprive anybody from it? No! Despite that we distribute packed executables, anyone can re-build them from the source code we provide to obtain a 100% functional copy of the original. (It doesn't really have to be byte-identical.) After that, he may pack it with the same packer we used, or another packer. So, we *do* ensure that all freedom is passed to the recipient of the program! Another point. EXEPACK is a part of the MS LINK, which is a part of the compiler, therefore the GPL allows using it. Now, where's the difference between this primitive packer and aPack? There is no difference in the job they do, only in the extent of compression - 5% vs 50%. So what? Let's stop the paranoia. We're NOT criminals! And whoever accuses us so, let him prove that... you know where! Lucho --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
Hi! 18--2004 17:55 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Luchezar Georgiev) wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED]: LG was a sarcasm! Why? Because we care more about the letter and not the LG spirit of the GPL. LG What is the goal of the GPL? Providing freedom and ensuring that nobody LG can deprive anybody from it. Do we provide freedom? Sure, by including Yes, this what I wish to say in my letter to Jim, but later I remove this part, because (1) not enough English experience and (2) because in court often more importnat letter, not spirit. LG Let's stop the paranoia. We're NOT criminals! And whoever accuses us so, LG let him prove that... you know where! I agreed: even if someone makes _real_ complain (why you use my proprietary compression program?), then we may find workaround or we may drop exepacking at all (especially because _this is not essential part of program). Before this, I suggest, we may pack executables freely. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id70alloc_id638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
tom ehlert wrote: unlikely. changing the license (from GPL2 to GPL3) requires written consent from all contributors ;) Most GPL'd programs have this statement: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That means (to me: IANAL) if V3 comes out anyone can choose to make a program licensed in such a manner GPL3 if they want. -uso. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
Steve Nickolas - Using Windoze wrote: tom ehlert wrote: unlikely. changing the license (from GPL2 to GPL3) requires written consent from all contributors ;) Most GPL'd programs have this statement: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That means (to me: IANAL) if V3 comes out anyone can choose to make a program licensed in such a manner GPL3 if they want. That is correct. That's part of the GNU General Public License. -jh -- _ This email message has been automatically encrypted using ROT-26. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
Re: [Freedos-devel] Executable compresison, part II
On Thu, 2004-03-18 at 15:12, Steve Nickolas - Using Windoze wrote: tom ehlert wrote: unlikely. changing the license (from GPL2 to GPL3) requires written consent from all contributors ;) Most GPL'd programs have this statement: This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version. That means (to me: IANAL) if V3 comes out anyone can choose to make a program licensed in such a manner GPL3 if they want. Which is why much of the linux kernel specifically states that only v2 can be used ... so the license can't be changed by FSF in a way that the linux kernel developers don't like. Paul --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470alloc_id=3638op=click ___ Freedos-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
