Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 5:20 AM, Eric Auer  wrote:
>
> while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
> lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
> can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
> middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
> of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)
> In particular, FreeBASIC has a nice QBASIC dialect mode.

I'll have to take a closer look (again).

But OW is already covered, the 14 MB .ZIP (full DOS-only install of
everything) is latest 1.9, so it's already up-to-date.

FBC.ZIP is 0.90.0 and FPC.ZIP is 2.6.0. Neither of those is totally
horribly outdated, but of course newer versions exist. I'm not sure
how to perfectly handle it. Of course FBC is much leaner by nature,
not having or needing its own installer. FPC really worries me because
it has so many (admittedly, optional) files.

I think making a package for DJGPP is almost a lost cause because
there are so many pieces. And like is already obvious, FBC and (less
so) FPC rely on that, hence the complexity.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Eric Auer]

Hi Rugxulo,

while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)
In particular, FreeBASIC has a nice QBASIC dialect mode.

Cheers, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Tom Ehlert]

> while DJGPP is rather large, in particular if you include
> lots of sub-packages, I think FPC (Pascal) and FreeBASIC
> can be a lot smaller to install and OpenWatcom C in the
> middle... Also, I would assume that LFN drivers are part
> of the ALL install, so why not install ALL compilers? :-)

because few people use ALL compilers. there  are awful many compilers
for DOS

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/devel/


Parent DirectoryDirectory
agena/  2014-Dec-26 10:49:11-   Directory
asm/2013-Jun-26 12:54:06-   Directory
awk/2015-Jul-25 21:09:39-   Directory
basic/  2007-Nov-28 11:30:33-   Directory

bcc/2012-Sep-20 06:35:51-   Directory
cc386/  2014-May-28 12:47:14-   Directory
lcc/2012-Sep-13 15:11:00-   Directory
micro-c/2012-Sep-13 15:10:46-   Directory
openwatcom/ 2010-Jun-29 02:06:02-   Directory
pacific/2000-Jul-17 10:54:07-   Directory
picoc/  2012-Jul-05 11:40:55-   Directory

https://github.com/alexfru/SmallerC

euphoria/   2011-Jul-27 16:43:08-   Directory
forth/  2012-Jan-25 11:27:26-   Directory
harbour/2011-Jul-28 18:13:46-   Directory
icon/   2012-Nov-07 17:52:11-   Directory
lisp/   2012-Dec-16 15:32:43-   Directory
lua/2013-Aug-20 08:40:17-   Directory
modula2/2000-Jul-17 10:52:47-   Directory
pascal/ 2013-Mar-26 20:37:24-   Directory
perl/   2007-Oct-20 13:50:16-   Directory
python/ 2012-Mar-27 11:00:17-   Directory
rexx/   2012-Oct-26 15:00:37-   Directory
ruby/   2012-Apr-16 19:34:04-   Directory
seed7/  2014-May-24 21:35:18-   Directory
tcl/2012-Oct-22 18:30:09-   Directory
waba/   2006-Feb-06 20:20:35-   Directory


besides this, crosscompiling (from Windows) is almost always easier
then developing from DOS natively. at least that's my nsh opinion.


Tom


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>
>>> devel\fpc
>>
>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
>
> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This
> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for
> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely
> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

Mateusz, "current" DJGPP, at minimum, would be roughly 40 MB (.ZIP'd
!!). And that's ignoring tons of sources (which can't be rebuilt atop
DOS anyways). Plus keep in mind that six months ago, the "recommended"
set was still 4.7.3 and 2.03p2 (not 5.3 and 2.05)! So things do
change, sometimes too slowly, other times too quickly. Upgrading is
always a mess.

FPC has some (but not all) things that won't install (fully, if at
all) without LFNs. Sure, the minimal set should work with SFNs, but I
don't know about all the extras. It's hard to ignore because someone
might complain. Then again, LFNs aren't always a great idea either (as
you have acknowledged).

FreeBASIC is loosely based upon DJGPP's libc and tools anyways, much
moreso than FPC. So it has the same problems.

It's easy to whip up a quick package, even for latest "stable"
release, but would it be any good? Would anyone use it? And how long
until we have to refresh it (yet again)? It's just very tedious work
for very little gain.

"Nobody cares" is probably accurate. There aren't a lot of developers,
and the few that exist must not need (or want) a proper FDNPKG
"package". As much as I like FDNPKG and think it's great, I also don't
want to pretend that it solves all problems.

Please don't be discouraged by this, but we just can't have everything.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
>> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:52 AM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
>>
 devel\fpc
>>>
>>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
>>
>> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This
>> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for
>> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely
>> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?
>
> I hear you there. I get almost no feedback on what packages need to be
> in BASE. Or even, what would like to be seen in ALL. Very disappointing.
>
> I hope that most of them are at least the latest “Stable” release.

Barring any blatant errors or things that Jim Hall missed, it's not
worth worrying about. He didn't want to change anything until well
after 1.2, so that's probably what will happen. (The biggest problem
isn't just lack of volunteers, it's that even the rare stuff we do
still get is highly unmaintained, almost abandonware. So we have to
round off the rough edges ourselves, which is tedious.)

I do still worry about some of the licensing (and the onus of
rebuilding), but it's mostly a lost cause at this late stage in the
game. Theoretical problems just aren't urgent enough, I suppose, to
delay real work. We'll have to worry about other real problems when
they actually appear.

As for "stable" releases, I'm afraid there are very few things that I
could reasonably call "stable". Sure, some of it works, but that
doesn't mean it's bug-free or well-maintained. Paradoxically, we're
lucky to have anything work anymore, despite our best efforts.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 5:45 PM, Antony Gordon  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> An assembler and a Pascal compiler. Missing BASIC and C/C++.
> 
> 

I don’t use Basic or C(s). :-)

> That would make the programming languages complete. You should probably 
> mention sources for all packages in the "everything" install.
> 
There are 4 types of package install that FDI performs.

Basic.
Basic w/Sources.

All.
All w/Sources.

All does not mean everything plus sources. Since most users won’t care about 
having the sources, they are not automatically
installed unless the user wants them.
> Base should just reference that the sources are on the install media. IIRC, 
> most Linux distributions don't specifically install the source code unless 
> requested by the end user.
> 
> -T
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 4:55 PM Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
> 
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
> 
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
> 
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them here 
> to
> shorten the list.
> 
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp
> util\4dos
> util\doslfn
> util\fdnpkg
> util\memtest
> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv
> util\cwsdpmi
> archiver\zip
> archiver\unzip
> 
> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep
> archiver\tar
> archiver\gzip
> archiver\bz2
> devel\nasm
> devel\fpc
> net\wget
> net\rsync
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:52 AM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> 
> On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>>> util\fdnpkg
>> 
>> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)
> 
> Good catch! I did release (silently) FDNPKG to v0.99.4 yesterday. Since 
> it contains nothing big from the user's point of view, I didn't feel 
> that it justify announcing it anywhere. But yes, here it is :)

Yeah, I saw you pushed it out about 2 hours before I did another Preview 
release of FDI. So, I pulled it down. Made sure it was working. Then
used it on the Preview Release. :-)

> 
>>> devel\fpc
>> 
>> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.
> 
> Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This 
> is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for 
> volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely 
> unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

I hear you there. I get almost no feedback on what packages need to be
in BASE. Or even, what would like to be seen in ALL. Very disappointing.

I hope that most of them are at least the latest “Stable” release.

> 
> Mateusz
> 
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Jerome E. Shidel Jr.]

> On Dec 20, 2015, at 6:02 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  
> wrote:
>> 
>> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>> 
>> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>> 
>> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>> 
>> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them 
>> here to
>> shorten the list.
>> 
>> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
>> net\mtcp
> 
>> util\4dos
> 
> (I know some people can't live without this. I just hate the idea that
> it somehow taints the whole bunch due to ambiguous license.)
> 
>> util\doslfn
> 
> Which version? 0.41c?

The packages and versions assume just using the ones available on
 Mateusz’s FreeDOS Package Repository. 
(repeat for all version questions).

The new batch file based FreeDOS Installer (FDI) is finished. It is only waiting
on the package lists to be completed. Once that is done, the install media 
can be assembled and it can go into beta testing. While it is waiting on those
lists, I will be adding submitted language translations for the installer.

> 
>> util\fdnpkg
> 
> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)
> 
>> util\memtest
> 
> Uh, you mean Eric's old patched version? Version??
> 
>> util\bootfix
>> util\shsufdrv
> 
> BTW, the licensing is slightly ambiguous here (IMO), but Jason Hood
> told me that it's "zlib".
> 
>> util\cwsdpmi
> 
> Please make sure r7 only (although including both r5 2008 and r7
> wouldn't be the worst idea, but I seriously don't know of any obvious
> reason to do that).
> 
>> archiver\zip
> 
> 2.32? (I still don't know why we never "officially" had 3.00, not that
> it majorly matters.)
> 
>> archiver\unzip
> 
> 6.00?
> 
>> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
>> util\grep
> 
> Xgrep? (No LFNs, no *nix globbing, but it's very small!)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=xgrep
> 
>> archiver\tar
> 
> Which? ("UTIL" does include an ancient 16-bit one.)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=tar
> 
>> archiver\gzip
> 
> Which? (I'm assuming only the old 16-bit one and not the 386+ DJGPP build.)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=gzip
> 
>> archiver\bz2
> 
> (386+ DJGPP only)
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bzip2
> 
>> devel\nasm
> 
> Which? Latest is 2.11.08.
> 
> http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=nasm
> http://www.nasm.us/
> 
>> devel\fpc
> 
> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet. It
> would be quite large (which is annoying), but perhaps LZMA (which
> Mateusz dislikes) would mitigate that.
> 
>> net\wget
> 
> Michael Kostylev made a (slightly) newer version semi-recently, but I
> have no idea if he included all patches or not (as things like that
> are a pain to rebuild). So I'm not honestly sure if 1.11 is that much
> worse than 1.12 (and certainly the latter is much larger). (He also
> rebuilt Curl, but I have the same worries. I may just mirror them to
> iBiblio anyways, lacking any direct proof of error.)
> 
> http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=14569
> 
>> net\rsync
> 
> Dunno if that's even available, can't remember, never tried it. EDIT:
> Here's what we seem to have (but it's not officially listed under
> "NET", apparently):
> 
> https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/net/rsync/
> 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Jerome E. Shidel Jr.  wrote:
>
> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them here 
> to
> shorten the list.
>
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp

> util\4dos

(I know some people can't live without this. I just hate the idea that
it somehow taints the whole bunch due to ambiguous license.)

> util\doslfn

Which version? 0.41c?

> util\fdnpkg

Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)

> util\memtest

Uh, you mean Eric's old patched version? Version??

> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv

BTW, the licensing is slightly ambiguous here (IMO), but Jason Hood
told me that it's "zlib".

> util\cwsdpmi

Please make sure r7 only (although including both r5 2008 and r7
wouldn't be the worst idea, but I seriously don't know of any obvious
reason to do that).

> archiver\zip

2.32? (I still don't know why we never "officially" had 3.00, not that
it majorly matters.)

> archiver\unzip

6.00?

> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep

Xgrep? (No LFNs, no *nix globbing, but it's very small!)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=xgrep

> archiver\tar

Which? ("UTIL" does include an ancient 16-bit one.)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=tar

> archiver\gzip

Which? (I'm assuming only the old 16-bit one and not the 386+ DJGPP build.)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=gzip

> archiver\bz2

(386+ DJGPP only)

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=bzip2

> devel\nasm

Which? Latest is 2.11.08.

http://freedos.sourceforge.net/software/?prog=nasm
http://www.nasm.us/

> devel\fpc

3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet. It
would be quite large (which is annoying), but perhaps LZMA (which
Mateusz dislikes) would mitigate that.

> net\wget

Michael Kostylev made a (slightly) newer version semi-recently, but I
have no idea if he included all patches or not (as things like that
are a pain to rebuild). So I'm not honestly sure if 1.11 is that much
worse than 1.12 (and certainly the latter is much larger). (He also
rebuilt Curl, but I have the same worries. I may just mirror them to
iBiblio anyways, lacking any direct proof of error.)

http://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=14569

> net\rsync

Dunno if that's even available, can't remember, never tried it. EDIT:
Here's what we seem to have (but it's not officially listed under
"NET", apparently):

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/net/rsync/

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Mateusz Viste]

On 21/12/2015 00:02, Rugxulo wrote:
>> util\fdnpkg
>
> Presumably latest here? (0.99.4 "<8 hours ago", according to SF.net page)

Good catch! I did release (silently) FDNPKG to v0.99.4 yesterday. Since 
it contains nothing big from the user's point of view, I didn't feel 
that it justify announcing it anywhere. But yes, here it is :)

>> devel\fpc
>
> 3.0.0 was released recently, but there is no "package" for it yet.

Same goes for DJGPP. And FreeBASIC. And surely many more packages. This 
is one of the issues that I pointed to in my latest "call for 
volunteers" on the user list. But since call remained completely 
unanswered, I assume nobody cares. So why bother?

Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 ALL packages

[Antony Gordon]

Hi,

An assembler and a Pascal compiler. Missing BASIC and C/C++.

That would make the programming languages complete. You should probably
mention sources for all packages in the "everything" install.

Base should just reference that the sources are on the install media. IIRC,
most Linux distributions don't specifically install the source code unless
requested by the end user.

-T

On Sun, Dec 20, 2015, 4:55 PM Jerome E. Shidel Jr. 
wrote:

> This is the list of the ALL package list for the FDI installer.
>
> Please let me know if I should anything else or remove something.
>
> Also, V8Power Tools is also installed when ALL is selected.
>
> This list includes all packages in the BASE. I just did not include them
> here to
> shorten the list.
>
> ; The remaining packages are only installed when ALL is chosen.
> net\mtcp
> util\4dos
> util\doslfn
> util\fdnpkg
> util\memtest
> util\bootfix
> util\shsufdrv
> util\cwsdpmi
> archiver\zip
> archiver\unzip
>
> ; Some packages I would like to see in ALL.
> util\grep
> archiver\tar
> archiver\gzip
> archiver\bz2
> devel\nasm
> devel\fpc
> net\wget
> net\rsync
>
>
>
>
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