Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
I'm not sure exactly what you're hunting for, but I've got lots of old sound cards (as well as other hardware, modems, video cards, and so on) and would be more than willing to send you one for the cost of shipping. They're all sitting in my work shop, and I don't have enough computers to put them in anyway. Also, I've not tried looking at the source, but I see no reason why the ac97 drivers from linux couldn't be ported back to dos as a general sound driver, just add sb-compatible calls to it, and you should be all set. I'm no assembly expert, I have minimal experience with drivers, but I have been coding for over 20 years, and generally, porting things is largely a process of compile, see what's broke, find out how to fix it, then repeat as necessary. Of course, the devil is in the details. How do you fix usb polling support on an os that has no usb support? But, barring any unsurmountable hardware issues, software porting is not all that difficult, just very very time consuming, it takes a lot of research, until you get enough knowledge/feel for how things work that you can plow through it, and even then, sometimes after putting lots and lots of work into something you throw up your hands and toss it all out, because it just can't be made to work in the current constraints you're working under. But, given enough time, and knowledge, I don't think porting the ac97 driver from linux would be impossible. On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Santiago Almenara wrote: Thanks for all your answers. From all your mail, I understood this: There is not such thing as "VESA audio" SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for windows). So I have three possibilities: Use VMware or Dosbox. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year- old P4 system? Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound cards calls. Approach (b) has this PROS: Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should handle DOS programs very well. ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always adding new cards too! ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games & programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new project using source code of both of them. I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am sure all the information I need is out there on the net! Regards, Santiago -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
On Feb 4, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Jonathan W. wrote: > Sorry for jumping in at the last minute, but to encrypt something in > RAM, wouldn't you need an external hardware-based encryption > algorithm to run the data through when inputting/outputting? > Otherwise, when a program loads data from the RAM and it gets > decrypted, it would show up in the RAM that decrypts it, right? > It would have to, but hardware is not required. Remember ram doubler from (quarterdeck?) or any number of other products that did the same thing (can't recall names off the top of my head at the moment) but it was generally decided that the ram savings wasn't worth the compress/ decompress time. I'd wager with todays faster cpus, and faster ram access, a project like that could work just fine. Only thing is, with memory also not really being at a premium (or at least that's the general pov) I doubt such a product would do well these days, though it certainly would hide details such are currently being discussed (I'd think) -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Now, I'm surprised they didn't carry this research a few steps farther. The claim is always made that if computers didn't need to refresh their memory, they wold be magnitudes faster. Why not build a computer (liquid helium cooled) that does exactly what they tested in this experiment. I.E. no need to refresh memory at all except for once an hour or so. Wouldn't that make the machine much faster. Effectively it would be 0 refresh, since in 99 percent of cases, nothing needs to remain in memory for an hour anyhow during normal computer usage, only update the memory when it changes, and not have to worry about loosing memory continuity at all. You could of course implement some sort of a sleep mode (I.E. dump the contents of memory to a flash drive or nvram or something) when not used at all for x minutes, this would negate the need to refresh even after an hour. There's always technology researched for making machines faster by running them at higher clockrates, but this would do wonders for speed, as there would never need to be a single memory refresh under normal operating circumstances. Of course, all this is theoretical, until someone does the testing, but it is a nice idea. (at least I thought so) -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Loading old DOS programs under FreeDOS
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Michael Robinson wrote: > > > It is truly sad that Microsoft, since it doesn't support it's > dos versions of Word anymore, won't allow free redistribution > of it. The reality is, there are very few old computers left > that can only run dos, compared to the number of computers that > run Linux or Windows. > > If people hand out illegal copies of software, it hurts > efforts to replace that software with something like open > office or ReactOS plus Open Office for example. Why bother > with free stuff if you can get commercial software without > paying for it? If the open source alternatives catch on, > the legal problems of pirating software go away. > > How about producing an OSS clone of Windows > 3.11 or Windows 98SE? The advantage of doing the latter is > that the clone can be made to work with freedos instead of > the other way around. I have never felt that Windows NT > was a good replacement for dos based Windows. Microsoft > did a sloppy job, too many 9x programs want to be run as > administrator on an 2000/XP system. > > There is experimental support of Windows 3.0 I guess, which > I don't have, and I question the point of that. Most copies > of Windows 3.x are probably disk based and no good anymore. It might be possible to make an "enhanced" Windows 3.1 clone on FreeDOS with the use of many different components from different projects. I am not sure if it is technically feasible or not, but here is my idea: * Use the DOS HX Extender as a base for lowest level part of Windows 3.x/9x (win.com, etc.) * Wine project code could be used for implementing the higher level stuff (common controls, etc.) * Calmira for GUI or someone could write a Program Manager for GUI like Windows 3.x. Personally, I like the style of Windows 3.x over the Windows 95 style of GUI. Because DOS HX Extender supports OpenGL, it is possible to use WineD3D to translate DirectX to OpenGL, so DirectX apps may not get left out anyway. Currently, this is how ReactOS emulates Direct3D. Doing this kind of work would literally make all the other GUIs obsolete merely because this particular GUI has a LARGE base of apps to work with. Additionally, more functionality could be added, like X11 compatibility in order to bring DESQview/X like functionality to us as FOSS. -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] TCP/IP Driver for EEEpc
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! > >> First, a shout out to Hans, mr, and Mark for helping >> me install FreeDOS to my EEEpc. It's Alive! I am glad to help. :) >> Second, are the drivers required to run the TCP/IP stack >> specific to the ethernet device in a computer? You need a packet driver to use the lan chip. Do you have some already? Look at http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.PacketDriver >> Is there a socket library available for DOS? >> Also, does anyone know of some DHCP software for DOS? > > Most people use Wattcp or, with 32bit compilers like > DJGPP (GNU C for DOS) Watt-32. It is a library that > you link into your binary, and it includes DHCP :-). If I remember right it was for both, real and protected mode. May be possible that I have forgotten to answer something because I understood the question in another way, in this case just ask the open question again. -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: >>> Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? > > Yes. Actually for DOS, it does not even make a real > difference whether you have PCI, AGP or PCIe. You > only miss the extra speed of the latter with DOS. > This is a good topic... I scare a bit to upgrade once to a ISA- and PCI-free board in favor of PCI-Express-only slots, I think it won't take that long until PCI will completely die? What about sound compatibility in DOS then? Are there any PCI-Express cards with DOS support? Or could a PCI-e to PCI adapter work? -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] TCP/IP Driver for EEEpc
Hi! > First, a shout out to Hans, mr, and Mark for helping > me install FreeDOS to my EEEpc. It's Alive! Please write a summary of the tricks you needed to make it run. When I last tried, a generic "bootable DOS USB stick" worked at once, but had problems with FDAPM ACPI. FDAPM APMDOS worked okay, though, as far as I remember. I also have an updated LBACACHE which works better with BIOS USB drivers: Let me know if I can email it to you for testing. > Second, are the drivers required to run the TCP/IP stack > specific to the ethernet device in a computer? I would > like to start writing some simple socket software to grab > my email whenever an ethernet jack is available. How about using Arachne? It is a web browser with SMTP and POP3 email support but without Java Script etc etc. > Is there a socket library available for DOS? > Also, does anyone know of some DHCP software for DOS? Most people use Wattcp or, with 32bit compilers like DJGPP (GNU C for DOS) Watt-32. It is a library that you link into your binary, and it includes DHCP :-). Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Hi, >>- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" There was, but nobody used it and it was only supported by PCI graphics cards with built-in sound or similarily "exotic" hardware as far as I remember. I doubt that any significant number of games supported that either. >>- SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS Yes. >>- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. For Windows: VDMsound, Dosbox, various virtual computers Problem with Dosbox: Slow, because CPU is virtual, too. For Linux: Dosemu, Dosbox, various virtual computers Same problem as above ;-) For DOS: Only the proprietary SBLive / SBPCI drivers which are "locked" to work only with those (actually AC97) cards and VSB, but VSB only emulates SB 1.0 and supports only Covox (simple printer port adapter) and similar hardware. > There is some emulation software for PCI cards but it > needs proprietary hardware. See above. >>1. Use VMware or Dosbox. > Or Bochs, Qemu, DOSEMu, many others... I would suggest Dosemu if you have Linux, Bochs if you want maximum hardware independence, Dosbox if you want slow but adjustable CPU speed ;-). Qemu or a commercial (VMWare, Virtual PC, ...) product for more speed, but most of are bad either speed or SB16-compatibility wise. >>2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. Better SBPCI or SBLive, if their virtual soundcard is okay for you. Or hardware adlib cards like with ForteMedia FM801 or (bad) CMedia chipsets: Those try to be SBPro / SB16 compatible, too, but will often fail with that on modern mainboards. But at least their Adlib / OPL3 / FM part will still work ;-). >> 3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. Depends on your soundcard, lowlevel programming skills or ability to raise funds to motivate skilled people. You can use parts of VSB, Mpxplay, Bochs, Dosemu, Alsa- Project and similar components to implement the driver. >> 1. I don't want to use emulation software. Depends. Emulating nothing basically means that you either have to buy a PC with ISA or rewrite all your games. Emulating a bit means that K6 / Pentium III and FM801 generation cards will be your choice. Next step is emulating the whole soundcard (SBLive, SBPCI) then whole external hardware (Dosemu) then a your hardware (Bochs, Qemu, VMWare, Virtual PC, ...) and finally even emulating DOS (VDMSound, Dosbox) :-p >> 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. Not sure about those. SBPCI / SBLive are more known to work. Not really sure about Audigy either ;-). >> Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? Yes. Actually for DOS, it does not even make a real difference whether you have PCI, AGP or PCIe. You only miss the extra speed of the latter with DOS. > SBLive works well on XP, Vista untested. No idea. Almost every mainboard has built-in sound with AC97 or HDA anyway, so you can use that in your Windows and the good old SBLive / ... in DOS :-). >> I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. DOS never uses soundcards. Only DOS games do, and you do not have their source code to adapt them... >> (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert >> SB calls to sound cards calls. There are no SB calls. Games try to access hardware, and you can intercept that (emulate hardware). Quite challenging but VSB and the SBLive / ... drivers show that it can be done even inside DOS. Note that ALSA does not run in DOS at all, it might be easier to use the MPXPLAY for DOS drivers as starting point. Note that it only supports a few modern soundcards, but it is open source so you can start my making at least MPXPLAY itself work with your soundcard :-)). Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] TCP/IP Driver for EEEpc
First, a shout out to Hans, mr, and Mark for helping me install FreeDOS to my EEEpc. It's Alive! Second, are the drivers required to run the TCP/IP stack specific to the ethernet device in a computer? I would like to start writing some simple socket software to grab my email whenever an ethernet jack is available. Is there a socket library available for DOS? Also, does anyone know of some DHCP software for DOS? Thanks; Bray -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Santiago Almenara schrieb: > Thanks for all your answers. > >>From all your mail, I understood this: > >- There is not such thing as "VESA audio" Unfortunately... >- SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS >system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, >besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). >- Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for >windows). There is some emulation software for PCI cards but it needs proprietary hardware. > So I have three possibilities: > >1. Use VMware or Dosbox. Or Bochs, Qemu, DOSEMu, many others... >2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. That would be a waste. Rather buy SB Live (cheap and good) or Audigy (I should have purchased this, I think it's even better and still works in DOS, but untested). >3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. Yeah, PLEASE DO IT! > 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's > why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very > well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. I also prefer this, works better then DOSBox. > > 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS > drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not > trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured > there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year-old P4 system? Are old > PCI slots compatible with the new ones? SBLive works well on XP, Vista untested. Probable the same for Audigy. > 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I > have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new > project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to > FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound > cards calls. > > Approach (b) has this PROS: > >- Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should >handle DOS programs very well. >- ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always >adding new cards too! >- ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games >& programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new >project using source code of both of them. Yep. > I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am > sure all the information I need is out there on the net! It is and you can also ask here, seams Eric could theoretically write such a thing. > > > Regards, > > Santiago > > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS & Sound
Thanks for all your answers. >From all your mail, I understood this: - There is not such thing as "VESA audio" - SoundBlasters, especially SB16, are the common "de facto" for DOS system (I used to have an ISA one, so I won't be able to use it anymore, besides I think my parents threw away my 1995 computer after I moved). - Right now, there is not emulation software for it. (VDMsound is for windows). So I have three possibilities: 1. Use VMware or Dosbox. 2. Buy an old SoundBlaster 16 PCI card. 3. Start a project to make my card work under FreeDOS/MS-DOS. 1. I don't want to use emulation software. I want real 16-bit DOS. That's why I started the thread in the first place.. Actually, it is working very well with my old software. The only problem is that I can't make sound work. 2. I've found in eBay some used SB16 PCI cards. I think I will find the DOS drivers almost everwhere, except for the Creative driver page. I am not trying to make it work under WinXP or Vista. They'll be un-configured there. Do you think they will work with my 3-year-old P4 system? Are old PCI slots compatible with the new ones? 3. I was thinking that a new project would be very interesting. However, I have neither enough technnical skills nor enough money to fund a new project. I know some programming, though. I could (a) Adapt my sound card to FreeDOS. (b) Create an ALSA DOS-wrapper to make to convert SB calls to sound cards calls. Approach (b) has this PROS: - Wrapper performance issues won't be a problem because today PC's should handle DOS programs very well. - ALSA's broader compatibility with sound cards. And they are always adding new cards too! - ALSA (how software communicate with a sound card) and DOSbox (how games & programs communicate with a SB card) are free so you can start a new project using source code of both of them. I don't have much time or enough technnical knowledge right now. But I am sure all the information I need is out there on the net! Regards, Santiago -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi Skyler, > >> Sorry for jumping in at the last minute, but to encrypt >> something in RAM, wouldn't you need an external hardware > > No, you can work as if you were swapping: The 386 and newer > CPU allow you to flag memory areas as "not accessible" and > trigger a call which allows you to make the area useable on > demand, for example by swapping it back in from disk. > > You can also make a driver which makes areas "unuseable" by > encrypting them and automatically decrypting them as soon > as anything tries to access them. A task in the background > can continuously try to make as many pages "unuseable" as > possible. Then, if you make sure that the key is zapped at > reboot (e.g. because it is at a place overwritten at boot) > you can be sure that only very small areas are useable by > an attacker who wants to steal your RAM contents. Interesting idea... Well, this cold boot attack can be still only solved in hardware. You would need some RAM which you can trust to lose all informations just after power is off. By the way... Aren't there other storage just similar to RAM? The cache of the processor? Could it be abused to store the key to encrypt the RAM? > > You can also combine swapping out to disk and encrypting, > as long as your driver still knows which of the two kinds > of "not accessible" is the case when that make-useable-on- > demand call is triggered. > > Eric > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Jonathan W. schrieb: > Sorry for jumping in at the last minute, You are welcome to add your comments at any point, that's a mailinglist for? :) -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Hi Skyler, > Sorry for jumping in at the last minute, but to encrypt > something in RAM, wouldn't you need an external hardware No, you can work as if you were swapping: The 386 and newer CPU allow you to flag memory areas as "not accessible" and trigger a call which allows you to make the area useable on demand, for example by swapping it back in from disk. You can also make a driver which makes areas "unuseable" by encrypting them and automatically decrypting them as soon as anything tries to access them. A task in the background can continuously try to make as many pages "unuseable" as possible. Then, if you make sure that the key is zapped at reboot (e.g. because it is at a place overwritten at boot) you can be sure that only very small areas are useable by an attacker who wants to steal your RAM contents. You can also combine swapping out to disk and encrypting, as long as your driver still knows which of the two kinds of "not accessible" is the case when that make-useable-on- demand call is triggered. Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Sorry for jumping in at the last minute, but to encrypt something in RAM, wouldn't you need an external hardware-based encryption algorithm to run the data through when inputting/outputting? Otherwise, when a program loads data from the RAM and it gets decrypted, it would show up in the RAM that decrypts it, right? Skyler On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Michael Reichenbach < michael_reichenb...@freenet.de> wrote: > Eric Auer schrieb: > > Hi! > > > >>> If I wanted to protect my mona lisa, I would > >>> encrypt it and put the key in the first 640k > >>> where I can be sure the BIOS wipes them :-p > >> You can only encrypt the harddisk, not the RAM. > > > > Yes you can encrypt and/or compress RAM, but of > > course you get lower performance. Extreme case > > would be encrypting all pages apart from the one > > you are using, automatically, hand having a task > > which re-encrypts all pages as soon as you no > > longer touch them for a short time. For important > > data such as keyrings, it is certainly worth the > > effort to encrypt it in RAM and only decrypt it at > > the moment when you actually have to work with the > > real data... > > Possible but it would be a real waste of performance and you can be > still not sure no one steals the masterkey. > > > > >> When using FDE the RAM > >> is always unencrypted by design, no way. > > > > What is FDE? > > Full Disk Encryption. > > > > >> If you encrypt something in RAM you can not see it. :) > > > > If things were like that, you could not encrypt disk, either. > > The moment you see them it must be unencrypted in RAM only, not on hd. > > > > >> Usually you have to hide more then just 1 MB. > > > > Not if you use encryption, then you only have to hide keys. > > Yes. > > And we leaving the original topic that a ram dumper has still point and > BIOS does not remove much. Oh no, the original topic was dd and how to > read the memory. > > > > > Eric > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with > Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and > code to > > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of > local > > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK > and > > Ajax docs to start building applications today- > http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > > ___ > > Freedos-user mailing list > > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with > Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code > to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of > local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK > and > Ajax docs to start building applications today- > http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- "Those who do not become dishonest or hostile are the most difficult to debate. Addressing others in a respectful and considerate manner conveys favorable impressions of their belief system. Providing rational answers to questions creates positive image of the person and their beliefs. Thank goodness there are very few such members and they are greatly outnumbered by those who are irrational, rabid, intolerant, and disrespectful." - An atheist -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! > >>> If I wanted to protect my mona lisa, I would >>> encrypt it and put the key in the first 640k >>> where I can be sure the BIOS wipes them :-p >> You can only encrypt the harddisk, not the RAM. > > Yes you can encrypt and/or compress RAM, but of > course you get lower performance. Extreme case > would be encrypting all pages apart from the one > you are using, automatically, hand having a task > which re-encrypts all pages as soon as you no > longer touch them for a short time. For important > data such as keyrings, it is certainly worth the > effort to encrypt it in RAM and only decrypt it at > the moment when you actually have to work with the > real data... Possible but it would be a real waste of performance and you can be still not sure no one steals the masterkey. > >> When using FDE the RAM >> is always unencrypted by design, no way. > > What is FDE? Full Disk Encryption. > >> If you encrypt something in RAM you can not see it. :) > > If things were like that, you could not encrypt disk, either. The moment you see them it must be unencrypted in RAM only, not on hd. > >> Usually you have to hide more then just 1 MB. > > Not if you use encryption, then you only have to hide keys. Yes. And we leaving the original topic that a ram dumper has still point and BIOS does not remove much. Oh no, the original topic was dd and how to read the memory. > > Eric > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Hi! >> If I wanted to protect my mona lisa, I would >> encrypt it and put the key in the first 640k >> where I can be sure the BIOS wipes them :-p > > You can only encrypt the harddisk, not the RAM. Yes you can encrypt and/or compress RAM, but of course you get lower performance. Extreme case would be encrypting all pages apart from the one you are using, automatically, hand having a task which re-encrypts all pages as soon as you no longer touch them for a short time. For important data such as keyrings, it is certainly worth the effort to encrypt it in RAM and only decrypt it at the moment when you actually have to work with the real data... > When using FDE the RAM > is always unencrypted by design, no way. What is FDE? > If you encrypt something in RAM you can not see it. :) If things were like that, you could not encrypt disk, either. > Usually you have to hide more then just 1 MB. Not if you use encryption, then you only have to hide keys. Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! > BIOS doesn't destroy to much >>> Enough to destroy whatever you wanted to hide by rebooting. >> I see you haven't try it yourself yet... >> Don't you know the video with the mona lisa? >> http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/media/ > > If I wanted to protect my mona lisa, I would > encrypt it and put the key in the first 640k > where I can be sure the BIOS wipes them :-p You can only encrypt the harddisk, not the RAM. When using FDE the RAM is always unencrypted by design, no way. If you encrypt something in RAM you can not see it. :) Usually you have to hide more then just 1 MB. It might be a good idea for vendors from encryption software like you say to up the masterkey in RAM in an area where it will get overwritten by BIOS... But there is still enough other interesting content in RAM, not encrypted and not wiped. > > Unless of course... > > - somebody takes the chips out and has an adapter > where he can read them without any BIOS messing > > - somebody forgets to disable FireWire, then I can > fetch the RAM contents without cooperation of the > operating system because all devices have DMA host > access ;-) > > Eric > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Hi! >>> BIOS doesn't destroy to much >> >> Enough to destroy whatever you wanted to hide by rebooting. > > I see you haven't try it yourself yet... > Don't you know the video with the mona lisa? > http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/media/ If I wanted to protect my mona lisa, I would encrypt it and put the key in the first 640k where I can be sure the BIOS wipes them :-p Unless of course... - somebody takes the chips out and has an adapter where he can read them without any BIOS messing - somebody forgets to disable FireWire, then I can fetch the RAM contents without cooperation of the operating system because all devices have DMA host access ;-) Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problems after adding more RAM
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi! > >> Recently I did expand my computer from 1 GB to 2 GB of RAM. > >> At minimal configuration, just with himem and emm386. > > Try updating to HIMEMX and JEMM386, but take care that those > default to giving you as much RAM as possible, without trying > to protect DOS apps from the horror of having unbelievably > much of it ;-). You have various command line options to limit > available RAM in various ways, when seen through various APIs. When using this limiters... Are himemx and jemm386 better on the whole line then himem / emm386? Or does it introduce new problems with legacy apps? >> FreeDOS KEYB 2.0 (pre4) >> Critical error: cannot allocate memory. >> DOS reported error: 8 > > For DISPLAY, you would expect XMS to be used, but for KEYB? > Did you try without EMM386 and/or without HIMEM? - with himem and without emm386 it was working - without himem and without emm386 it was working - with himem and with emm386 but with noems it was working >> DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE MAX=3 NOEMS >> When using NOEMS the bug did not appear. >> (But therefore still others, >> crashing extenders and such.) > > With NOEMS, there is no page frame, and DOS can use more > UMB for other things, so the bad area is touched later. > You should try to find the right X=?-? option for EMM386. The X=A000-EFFF should be the most compatible and work in any case? It also wasn't working... > Modern computers and BIOSes do not always mark reserved > UMB areas in ways that are visible to EMM386. For example > MMIO or buffers of PCI controllers could be in UMB areas. > >> The next strange thing is that I couldn't get ctmouse 1.8 >> and 1.9 to work for normally good applications... > > Let me guess, you have USB emulating PS/2 via BIOS support? I have mouse and keyboard connected both thought real PS/2. But this was the helping point anyway. As I am forced to enable either USB keyboard support and/or USB mouse support in BIOS in order to boot from USB it was enabled (for real, this is a known bug). When I boot from eSATA or IDE I must remember to turn off USB keyboard/mouse in BIOS, then ctmouse/FreeEDIT and keyb are working. When booting from USB I must have USB keyboard/mouse in BIOS enabled, then ctmouse/FreeEDIT and keyb are working. > Did you try CTMOUSE 2.1 already? Made no difference. >> shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com /E:4096 the bug appears >> shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com mouse will work again. > > CTMOUSE defaults to using UMB when possible, even if you > do not use LH, so see above. Also, older versions of the > CTMOUSE driver even try using ancient UMB interfaces in > HIMEM (or even without?) but crash later. You either must > use a command line option for CTMOUSE to tell it that it > must not use UMB or you have to load EMM386 properly. > >> I would like to prefer to continue to use /E:4096 > > How on earth can you have so much in your environment? Is this a "really" bad or just a side comment? > Try the MEMORY command to see how much env FreeCOM uses, > but take other the values with care, some are misleading. Well, I've googeld myself this setting a while ago because I did run out of space when using complex batch. It was working well for a long time and therefore I like to keep it in case it can make no trouble. > That most likely means that some of your UMB area is bad! A part of the problem has been solved already. But when booting with himem only it says "UMB unavailable". Do you think this would disappear when I downgrade from 2 GB (2x 1 GB bank) back to 1 GB only? -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi, read before you write ;-) > >> BIOS doesn't destroy to much > > Enough to destroy whatever you wanted to hide by rebooting. I see you haven't try it yourself yet... Don't you know the video with the mona lisa? http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/media/ The destroyed part by the BIOS is marginal. Sure the cool down and remove part is even more effective, but for testing how long RAM holds and as software-only solution this is still very strong. > >>> How about Linux ghost clones, g4l or so? I also meant >>> that Heise had a DOS tool for disk imaging which was > > Read: DOS tool. > >>> almost certainly text mode or at most DEFRAG style text >>> mode GUI as far as I can remember... >> I need to check it out but I preferred to stick to DOS, > > Would a DOS tool be DOS tool enough? :-p > Sorry but I do not remember the exact name. > >> simpler and less black magic for me. > > I guess flying to the moon feels simple for you as > long as you can do it with DOS, preferably w/o mouse? > > Eric ;-) > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
> I need clear scriptable command to clear a partition table like > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 > > There are any way to do this? The FreeFDISK of FreeDOS is very scriptable and can do this. You should use the newest "experimental" version because: - the old version sometimes automatically cleared all partition data without asking when it believed the data to be broken - the new version needs more happy users to motivate the maintainer to improve SCSI/SATA disk- and LBA-detection ;-) See: http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?forum_id=891300 Eric PS: XFDISK and SPFDISK are more user-friendly but they are not as scriptable as free fdisk is... Normally I recommend those, but not for you. For RESIZING, use Linux GPARTED CD. -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Hi, read before you write ;-) > BIOS doesn't destroy to much Enough to destroy whatever you wanted to hide by rebooting. >> How about Linux ghost clones, g4l or so? I also meant >> that Heise had a DOS tool for disk imaging which was Read: DOS tool. >> almost certainly text mode or at most DEFRAG style text >> mode GUI as far as I can remember... > > I need to check it out but I preferred to stick to DOS, Would a DOS tool be DOS tool enough? :-p Sorry but I do not remember the exact name. > simpler and less black magic for me. I guess flying to the moon feels simple for you as long as you can do it with DOS, preferably w/o mouse? Eric ;-) -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:23 PM, Alain M. wrote: > Would you tell as what you intend to do? we could help you more that way :) > > Michael Reichenbach escreveu: > > What is the equivalent for /dev/mem > > the concept is not 1:1 as in DOS you have no protected memory, memoy > acces is done via any pointer... > > > or /dev/hda under DOS? > > Disk is C:, but that is /dev/hda1... but you can have functions to read > and write phisical and logical sectors. Again the concepts are different. > > Alain I need clear scriptable command to clear a partition table like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 There are any way to do this? > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with > Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code > to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of > local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK > and > Ajax docs to start building applications today- > http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > -- FabrÃcio Ceolin ulevel.com Diretor Executivo -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Problems after adding more RAM
Hi! > Recently I did expand my computer from 1 GB to 2 GB of RAM. > At minimal configuration, just with himem and emm386. Try updating to HIMEMX and JEMM386, but take care that those default to giving you as much RAM as possible, without trying to protect DOS apps from the horror of having unbelievably much of it ;-). You have various command line options to limit available RAM in various ways, when seen through various APIs. > FreeDOS KEYB 2.0 (pre4) > Critical error: cannot allocate memory. > DOS reported error: 8 For DISPLAY, you would expect XMS to be used, but for KEYB? Did you try without EMM386 and/or without HIMEM? > DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE MAX=3 NOEMS > When using NOEMS the bug did not appear. > (But therefore still others, > crashing extenders and such.) That most likely means that some of your UMB area is bad! With NOEMS, there is no page frame, and DOS can use more UMB for other things, so the bad area is touched later. You should try to find the right X=?-? option for EMM386. Modern computers and BIOSes do not always mark reserved UMB areas in ways that are visible to EMM386. For example MMIO or buffers of PCI controllers could be in UMB areas. > The next strange thing is that I couldn't get ctmouse 1.8 > and 1.9 to work for normally good applications... Let me guess, you have USB emulating PS/2 via BIOS support? Did you try CTMOUSE 2.1 already? > shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com /E:4096 the bug appears > shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com mouse will work again. CTMOUSE defaults to using UMB when possible, even if you do not use LH, so see above. Also, older versions of the CTMOUSE driver even try using ancient UMB interfaces in HIMEM (or even without?) but crash later. You either must use a command line option for CTMOUSE to tell it that it must not use UMB or you have to load EMM386 properly. > I would like to prefer to continue to use /E:4096 How on earth can you have so much in your environment? Try the MEMORY command to see how much env FreeCOM uses, but take other the values with care, some are misleading. Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Eric Auer schrieb: > Hi, > >> I always wanted to know this, couldn't find it on google. >> Is it possible to switch from long mode back to let's say real mode? > > Probably yes, but very slow. Until people are able to have > more than 64 GB RAM in their PC, using PAE is a lot faster > and easier even though it is not "the technology of the > future". > >>> which apps would use it and for what? > >> The ram dumper! Or maybe a ram tester? > > Ramdumper makes sense, maybe even switching to/from long > mode every few MB would be bearable there. Ramtesters do > already work best without OS, see memtest86+ and memtest86. > >> Future applications? :D > > Which? Who know what the future brings... >> Don't we have more phantasm? Otherwise poor performance. :p > > Do you know any DOS app which is RAM bound and forces > you to have more than, say, 500 MB RAM? Not yet. > Are you sure you > should not write a multi core CPU DOS extender first? ;-) Probable a great idea. =) >> Don't you think it's theoretically possible to modify an >> existing DOS extender to >> - save the state >> - switch to long mode >> - do something > > While DOS and BIOS are frozen, IRQ cannot be handled. > >> - return to state >> - do something in v86 > > You probably have to switch all down to real mode and > it adds complexity to resurrect the v86 of your EMM386 > or "normal DOS extender mode" from that point again. > >> - loop >> while staying compatible with all that stuff? > > Possible, yes. Useful, probably no. > >> For example DOS_extender in wikipedia. >> >> It says it switches all time from v86 OR realmode >> (means not limited to v86) to protected mode and back. > > Because v86 TASKS and protected mode TASKS can > exist simultaneously in a 32 bit multitasking > environment. The DOS extender does exactly that. > >> Why a switch to long mode shouldn't work? > > Because v86 cannot coexist with long mode. You > cannot simply switch tasks, you have to switch > the mode of the whole CPU, much much slower and > much more complex. Even more complex than the > annoying way 286 extenders had to follow to > "reboot" the CPU into real mode when they had > to leave protected mode, I would say. > >> Well, for a forensic tool (a ram dumper) a full blown 64 bit >> os is like "operating success, patient dead". Not much sense. > > That is true. > Otoh, how do you avoid your BIOS destroying > RAM contents already while you boot the forensic tool? BIOS doesn't destroy to much, might be also a good idea to stop the ram test. > The to-be-analyzed software could put the to-be-hidden > data into the first 1 MB deliberately, as that is very > often checked and wiped at boot to ensure stable boot. Unfortunately it's working very good. There are some but dd as command line tool is nicer in some cases. > >> Mostly graphical tools and on their homepages I don't >> find the term "raw image" or something similar, mostly >> proprietary formats. > > How about Linux ghost clones, g4l or so? I also meant > that Heise had a DOS tool for disk imaging which was > almost certainly text mode or at most DEFRAG style text > mode GUI as far as I can remember... I need to check it out but I preferred to stick to DOS, simpler and less black magic for me. > > Eric > > > > > -- > Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) > software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to > build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local > resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and > Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] multiple dos tasks - was: dd for DOS?
Hi! > In creating a multi-tasking dos,, why doesn't someone > just create a version of dos which spawns a whole new > virtual 386 machine for each application that is launched > at the command line? Windows 3 does this for each DOS window you open. The complicated part is making the already loaded parts of DOS including the kernel believe that only one app is running. You have to save and restore state, e.g. SDA. The kernel still only handles 1 request at a time, but that is acceptable when most CPU time is spent in apps. You also have to take care that different apps do not try to access the same files, as the state swapping hides things happening in each task from each other. The different tasks also cannot communicate with each other using DOS, but they can communicate with Windows if they know how to do that. > I think the software vmix386 Does it work with freedos? Which license does it have? Did you try tridos, by the way? It does similar stuff but not fully using protected mode afair, just swaps all DOS memory into chunks of XMS or similar memory? Making all this cooperate with HIMEM / EMM386 also adds complexity, as does allowing the DOS apps to access hardware directly. Many apps access e.g. the screen, so you have to simulate N virtual screens and somehow display one or more of them on the actual VGA screen. Remember how Windows supported less and less graphics for DOS over time, as they wanted to simplify things. > Is this what windows attempted to do with it enhanced 386 mode? > If so, why did it work so badly? How badly did it work? It does not work well in FreeDOS, you need to use the experimental winkern patches there because of the very lowlevel approach of state swapping. Windows 3 in standard mode swaps in more harmless ways. Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] dd for DOS?
Hi, > I always wanted to know this, couldn't find it on google. > Is it possible to switch from long mode back to let's say real mode? Probably yes, but very slow. Until people are able to have more than 64 GB RAM in their PC, using PAE is a lot faster and easier even though it is not "the technology of the future". >> which apps would use it and for what? > The ram dumper! Or maybe a ram tester? Ramdumper makes sense, maybe even switching to/from long mode every few MB would be bearable there. Ramtesters do already work best without OS, see memtest86+ and memtest86. > Future applications? :D Which? > Don't we have more phantasm? Otherwise poor performance. :p Do you know any DOS app which is RAM bound and forces you to have more than, say, 500 MB RAM? Are you sure you should not write a multi core CPU DOS extender first? ;-) > Don't you think it's theoretically possible to modify an > existing DOS extender to > - save the state > - switch to long mode > - do something While DOS and BIOS are frozen, IRQ cannot be handled. > - return to state > - do something in v86 You probably have to switch all down to real mode and it adds complexity to resurrect the v86 of your EMM386 or "normal DOS extender mode" from that point again. > - loop > while staying compatible with all that stuff? Possible, yes. Useful, probably no. > For example DOS_extender in wikipedia. > > It says it switches all time from v86 OR realmode > (means not limited to v86) to protected mode and back. Because v86 TASKS and protected mode TASKS can exist simultaneously in a 32 bit multitasking environment. The DOS extender does exactly that. > Why a switch to long mode shouldn't work? Because v86 cannot coexist with long mode. You cannot simply switch tasks, you have to switch the mode of the whole CPU, much much slower and much more complex. Even more complex than the annoying way 286 extenders had to follow to "reboot" the CPU into real mode when they had to leave protected mode, I would say. > Well, for a forensic tool (a ram dumper) a full blown 64 bit > os is like "operating success, patient dead". Not much sense. That is true. Otoh, how do you avoid your BIOS destroying RAM contents already while you boot the forensic tool? The to-be-analyzed software could put the to-be-hidden data into the first 1 MB deliberately, as that is very often checked and wiped at boot to ensure stable boot. >>> There are some but dd as command line tool is nicer in some cases. > Mostly graphical tools and on their homepages I don't > find the term "raw image" or something similar, mostly > proprietary formats. How about Linux ghost clones, g4l or so? I also meant that Heise had a DOS tool for disk imaging which was almost certainly text mode or at most DEFRAG style text mode GUI as far as I can remember... Eric -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Problems after adding more RAM
Hi! Recently I did expand my computer from 1 GB to 2 GB of RAM. Finally I checked that it's running well with Memtest86+ V2.11. I am also pretty sure that the harddisk can not be the problem as it's a mobile disk and working on other configurations ok. For now I found two strange behavior. At minimal configuration, just with himem and emm386. DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE FreeDOS KEZB 2.0 (pre4) Critical error: cannot allocate memory. DOS reported error: 8 Setting the RAM to use only a reasonable maximum did not help. DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE /MAX=3 DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE MAX=3 DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\HIMEM.EXE /MAX=3 /TESTMEM:ON DEVICE=C:\FDOS\BIN\EMM386.EXE MAX=3 NOEMS When using NOEMS the bug did not appear. (But therefore still others, crashing extenders and such.) The next strange thing is that I couldn't get ctmouse 1.8 and 1.9 to work for normally good applications such as FreeEDIT. It was working before well. To locate the bug I used minimal configuration files. When using shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com /E:4096 the bug appears (was working before!), when using shell=c:\fdos\bin\command.com mouse will work again. I would like to prefer to continue to use /E:4096 and also to get the keyb/memory problems fixed. regards, -mr -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
