Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[Mateusz Viste]

On Wednesday 08 April 2009 23:23 (CEST), Eric Auer wrote:
> You could either package the files into zips to make sure their
> timestamps are set by unzip or you could fix your web server ;-)

Hi,

I am not talking about timestamps inside zips (these are usually preserved), 
but about timestamps of the transaltions files, downloadable from my website. 
HTTP doesn't provide any real way to tell "this file's has been created the 3rd 
may 2003". You won't hop it.
My server is giving you a "Last-Modified" time, which is already an optional 
HTTP header, but Firefox isn't using it to store the downloaded file anyway.
In any case, I don't think that basing anything on file's timestamp is a good 
idea. These timestamps may change / be overwrited / falsed for many reasons.

See you,
Mateusz
-- 
You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key


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[Freedos-user] Compressed folders?

[Michael Horvath]

Is there a way to compress folders so they take up less space? Ideally, 
I would like to be able to compress into a zip file, and still have the 
OS treat it as a regular folder. As long as other OSs can view/access 
the folder and its files, then any type of compression is OK.

Thanks.

-Mike

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Re: [Freedos-user] Menu Programs

[Tim Bruce - Sourceforge]

On Wed, April 8, 2009 14:56, Adam Norton wrote:
> Speaking about match menus
>
> I remember a menu program that I used way back in the day
> I was able to build a menu and each item could be a sub menu or a
> program or bat file.
> It was basic but simple.
>
> Anyone remember the menus from way back when, I prob recognize the name
> if I saw it. :)
>
> bmenu maybe idk
>
> usul
>

The one menuing system I saw that fits with what you describe is AutoMenu.

I probably still have a copy of it floating around.  Unfortunately, I
think it was shareware, not GPL.

Tim
-- 
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visit my Website at: http://www.tbruce.com
Registered Linux User #325725



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Re: [Freedos-user] Menu Programs

[Larry]

That sounds like an old menu program I wrote for DOS years ago. It was simple, 
but a hyper-menu system. Each menu could launch programs or bat files or other 
menus. Menus could be related in any way the user wanted.
It was called showmenu. Menu file names started with the ^ character.

--- On Wed, 4/8/09, Adam Norton  wrote:

> From: Adam Norton 
> Subject: [Freedos-user] Menu Programs
> To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> Date: Wednesday, April 8, 2009, 3:56 PM
> Speaking about match menus
> 
> I remember a menu program that I used way back in the day
> I was able to build a menu and each item could be a sub
> menu or a 
> program or bat file.
> It was basic but simple.
> 
> Anyone remember the menus from way back when, I prob
> recognize the name 
> if I saw it. :)
> 
> bmenu maybe idk
> 
> usul
> 
> 
> 
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> 


  


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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos 1.1 status???

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

FreeDOS has been using info-zip as the ZIP and UNZIP tool
ever since I can remember. And it works very nicely, so
I do not miss PKZIP either. If somebody really does miss
it, a wrapper to translate PKZIP OPTIONX into a call to
ZIP OPTIONY might be an idea, but as said, I do not think
anybody would miss PKZIP when he has INFO ZIP :-).

Alain M. wrote:
> King InuYasha escreveu:
>> I believe Info-ZIP has a suitable replacement for PKware's DOS pkzip and 
>> pkunzip (ftp://ftp.info-zip.org/pub/infozip/msdos/).
> 
> Yes, it is compatible, just has a different command line (more unix 
> like). I made the switch many years ago :)
> 
> Definnetly ZIP and UNZIP should be included with FreeDOS, in the 16bit 
> versions. The 16bit UNZIP can handle any size zip file, so it is 
> perfectly ok, only ZIP needs to be 32 bit for very big archives.
> 
> What could be interesting is to distribute a copy od UNARJ and UNRAR 
> with FreeDOS. Both are 100% free.


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Re: [Freedos-user] patents - was: LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

[Eric Auer]

Hi Aitor,

> But then it wouldn't be compatible with the LFN that came with
> Windows9X and is used in the millions of USB devices or the like, nor
> with the applications that are LFN-aware (unless you'd like to rewrite
> the DOS LFN API descript.ion-based...

...
>> I think a descript.ion file based driver to support
>> long file names would be a fine idea indeed :-).
>> And it would avoid the ugly kludgy way in which MS
>> stores LFN spread over multiple directory entries.

Well actually that is what I meant - descript.ion is a classic
for some shells and file managers, but it is also a nice way to
store long file names in filesystem independent way and without
having to implement any kludgy patented VFAT style LFN storage.

With a driver showing the usual int 21 LFN interface to the apps
but using descript.ion instead of "LFN fragment direntry chains"
for the actual LFN storage, we can have more free, more open and
more portable long file names :-). On the down side, the driver
will not read or write VFAT LFNs for you, so if you want to let
Windows and DOS access the same drive, you would not share LFNs.

This includes USB drives and MP3 player devices and similar, but
not for example CD / DVD which use non-VFAT LFNs anyway for which
DOS uses separate drivers anyway...

In short: If you want VFAT then the only way to get it is to use
VFAT, but that might have licensing issues if you use DOS in your
embedded device. If you only want LFN, you can get it even in a
way that makes LFN DOS apps happy without having to touch VFAT
data structures, using a descript.ion based LFN API driver :-).

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] What about changing our packaging style for v1.1?

[Eric Auer]

Hi Jim :-))

> On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 9:30 AM, Mateusz Viste wrote:
>> Hi people!
>>
>> So far, we have always used packaging sources and binaries differently (that 
>> is, in separate packages, like memx.zip and mems.zip). I am trying to put 
>> some effort these days into syncing some packages to make them ready for 
>> v1.1, and I have to tell that handling sources and binaries in different 
>> ways is a big pain.
>> Besides that, the "source" package doesn't contain its own LSM file, which 
>> makes its hard (or at least unreliable) to keep track of what source is 
>> installed in what version.
>>
>> Therefore, I am proposing to drop the "sources / binaries" way of thinking, 
>> and stay with one package per program. For example, a "mem.zip" package 
>> would contain both sources and binaries. It would allow me to work much 
>> faster on packaging, and hopefully could lead to a v1.1 sooner.
>>
>> Some reasons to do that (quotes from Eric):
>> - it is easy to delete /source/mem/* to keep only binaries,
>> - it is not really allowed with GNU GPL License to publish binaries without 
>> sources anyway,
>> - it can be hard for people to find exactly the right version of the sources 
>> manually later, so it is best to include them,
>> - it makes life easier for installing and you can always drop the sources 
>> after installing.
>>
>> Please tell me what are your opinions in that matter.

Jim Hall wrote:
> These days, hard drives have lots of capacity. While including the
> sources would add to the size, we're talking on the order of MB, not
> GB.
> 
> Including the source and binaries together certainly provides that
> every program in the "FreeDOS 1.1" distro also includes the source
> code.
> 
> I am a big fan of this.

Thanks :-) I think it will make packaging easier... On the other
hand, I would suggest two things: A binary-only install mode in
FDPKG / FDUPDATE / installer which simply skips the source/NAME
dir while unzipping (or deletes it afterwards) and a binary-only
ISO for people with slow internet, as generated by dropping the
source directories inside the package zip files.  In short:  Let
us COLLECT all packages as FULL packages (binary AND source) for
most purposes and use AUTOMATED ways to "shrink full into binary"
for people with small disk or small internet :-).

> Can you put this in the FreeDOS Wiki, so people don't have to revisit
> this topic again in a year after we've forgotten? :-)

Sounds useful - if anybody needs a wiki login, let me know ;-)

Eric



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[Freedos-user] Menu Programs

[Adam Norton]

Speaking about match menus

I remember a menu program that I used way back in the day
I was able to build a menu and each item could be a sub menu or a 
program or bat file.
It was basic but simple.

Anyone remember the menus from way back when, I prob recognize the name 
if I saw it. :)

bmenu maybe idk

usul



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Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> It appears that any binary package installed on FreeDOS goes to /BIN.

Almost. Packages which need many files in the same "BINish"
directory have separate directories. This includes for
example Arachne, DOG, Emacs, Network and USB driver bags,
FBC, GhostScript, the 1.0 game collection, FDSMTPOP, LYNX,
OpenXP, PacificC, Pegasus Mail, SETEDIT with plugins and
maybe other packages in FreeDOS 1.0 ... Note that some of
the packages have few enough files to move them to the main
BIN directory while others got replaced etc etc :-).

> Besides that, there's no clear directive about "how to install 3rd
party apps".
> 
> I would propose the following rules:
> - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\
> - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to 
> \SBIN\

You can do that but should not overdo it. For example the 2.88 MB
one disk variant of the Rugxulo distro has: utils, system, media,
games, fdos and docs as main "category directories". For a normal
FreeDOS CD / DVD / USB / harddisk distro, I think the structure
of FreeDOS 1.0 is better than the structure of Rugxulo 2.88, though.

> - Any 3rd party program (SEAL, Arachne, FreeBASIC, MPXPLAY...) goes to 
> $apps\programs\
> - Any 3rd party game (Doom...) goes to $apps\games\

See above - but APPS is just the same as DOSDIR in FreeDOS 1.0 :-)

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] WAS Re: [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project => 2038 issue?

[Eric Auer]

Hi Geraldo,

> talking about date
> what will happen to freedos(kernel stuff?) at 2038?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

DOS has another date handling scheme, it counts 128
years starting at 1980, so we have enough time :-).

But note that many DOS programs also decide to use
other methods of counting, including "2 digit year"
or of course such schemes which involve year 2038.

FreeDOS already does contain a workaround for BIOS
year 2000 issues when they are obvious (in the get
time at boot routine) but it does not take a big
effort to catch all / obscure year 2000 bugs here.

Eric

PS: RBIL says that year must be < 2100, I guess this
means that MS DOS did not implement leap years fully.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1

[Eric Auer]

Hi,

as long as core / tool programs are in some directory in PATH,
things will be fine. For other apps, people can add a batch
into one of the directories in PATH or they can use ALIAS or
just chdir to the place to run stuff :-). Of course PATH can
differ between different DOSes and different people who make
different decisions on where to install DOS, but it always
points to a place where you can find at least the basic DOS.

Eric

> Utilities too late the party?
> 
> Because I think the utilities and freedos "core"  should be separated.
> 
> Here is one reason why.
> 
> Say I am working on a program that I want to be dos compatible.
> any Dos and not just free dos, or I need to test the compatibility.
> 
> C:\FDOS
> C:\MSDOS
> etc
> and this could be done with a simple batch menu.
> 
> But I may want to use things that are in the freedos bin direcory but since
> they are mixed in with the standard freedos applications I have to manual
> type in the whole path to use them because the aren't separated.
> 
> as for package determination, yes its an extra step but I think its
> the right one
> to make. is this core or not not too hard of a question. :)
> 
> if everything executable in mixed together it becomes difficult to manage.
> I know it more work but sometimes more work is required.


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[Freedos-user] WAS Re: [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project => 2038 issue?

[Geraldo Netto]

Hi,

talking about date

what will happen to freedos(kernel stuff?) at 2038?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem


Geraldo
Sapere Aude
Non ducor, duco
São Paulo, Brasil, -3gmt
site: http://exdev.sf.net/
msn: geraldo_boca_at_hotmail.com
skype: geraldo-netto
icq: 145-061-456



2009/4/8 Eric Auer :
>
> Hi!
>
>>> Does freedos/fat/dos store the files date and time information properly.
>>> Perhaps we could go by newer file instead of messages.
>>
>> Definitely a bad idea. Download any translation file from my website.
>> What timestamps do you get? Hint: HTTP doesn't provide that information
>> along with transmitted data... Not in a reliable way at least.
>
> You could either package the files into zips to make sure their
> timestamps are set by unzip or you could fix your web server ;-)
>
> Eric
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

>> Does freedos/fat/dos store the files date and time information properly.
>> Perhaps we could go by newer file instead of messages. 
> 
> Definitely a bad idea. Download any translation file from my website.
> What timestamps do you get? Hint: HTTP doesn't provide that information
> along with transmitted data... Not in a reliable way at least.

You could either package the files into zips to make sure their
timestamps are set by unzip or you could fix your web server ;-)

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1

[maybeway36]

I don't think the utilities directory should be called SBIN. On Unix,
this usually implies tools for administrative purposes, as opposed to
utilities that can be used by anyone.

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Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[Mateusz Viste]

On Wednesday 08 April 2009 19:59 (CEST), usul wrote:
> Does freedos/fat/dos store the files date and time information properly.
> Perhaps we could go by newer file instead of messages. 

Definitely a bad idea. Download any translation file from my website. What 
timestamps do you get? Hint: HTTP doesn't provide that information along with 
transmitted data... Not in a reliable way at least.

> The newer 
> version of something may have less after some cleanup.

Right, but if you ask me, I would say that old messages should stay anyway, 
even if not used in newer version of the software. That way the translation 
file is still compatible with previous versions of the program.

Best regards,
Mateusz Viste


> On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Mateusz Viste  
> wrote:
> > On Wednesday 08 April 2009 15:17 (CEST), Roberto Mariottini wrote:
> >> In particular you can find the translations of DISKCOPY, MOVE, SORT and
> >> TREE.
> >
> > Cool, I grabed them just now :)
> >
> >> Can you indicate the version at the beginning of the EN file? It's
> >> easier for me to know what is changed between revisions, so what needs
> >> to be updated.
> >
> > It doesn't depend on me, but on the file's translator... Personally, I 
> > don't know which translation is made for which version, as the CAT/Kitten 
> > standard do not require any versionning information. I am simply comparing 
> > how much messages there are in file A and file B (assuming that the one 
> > which has more is the most up to date).
> >
> >> About Freecom: I suppose that CVS version "1.34 2004/12/01 21:20:46" is
> >> the same as SVN "Revision 1067**
> >
> > No idea.
> >
> >> How comes that the ES translation is more up-to date that
> >> the EN one?
> >
> > As said previously - I am only comparing number of messages in the file 
> > (these numbers are also written in the source page of my website...).
> > spanish.lng has 254 translated strings, while english.lng has only 182...
> >
> >> I don't know if they are still useful, let me know.
> >
> > I don't know either. I is a question which you should send to the 
> > freedos-installer guy (whoever it is, dunno if there are somebody working 
> > on the 1.1 installer at all...)
> >
> > see you!
> > Mateusz Viste
> >
> >
> >> Mateusz Viste wrote:
> >> > Hi all!
> >> >
> >> > It has been a long time that the "poor translation management" was 
> >> > bothering me. There is no easy way to know what needs to be translated, 
> >> > and what is already translated but not shipped with the package for 
> >> > whatever reason.
> >> >
> >> > I worked a moment today on a new project: The FreeDOS localisation 
> >> > project:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/fdlang/
> >> >
> >> > I think that such centralized translation point could greatly improve 
> >> > FreeDOS translations, as people would know exactly what has to be 
> >> > translated, where to check wheter any translations for a given program 
> >> > has been made, and where to send any self-made translations.
> >> >
> >> > Don't hesitate to send me any translations you have, which aren't listed 
> >> > on my website!
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Mateusz Viste
> > --
> > You'll find my public OpenPGP key at 
> > http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key
-- 
You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key


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Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[usul]

Does freedos/fat/dos store the files date and time information properly.
Perhaps we could go by newer file instead of messages. The newer
version of something may have less after some cleanup.



On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Mateusz Viste  wrote:
> On Wednesday 08 April 2009 15:17 (CEST), Roberto Mariottini wrote:
>> In particular you can find the translations of DISKCOPY, MOVE, SORT and
>> TREE.
>
> Cool, I grabed them just now :)
>
>> Can you indicate the version at the beginning of the EN file? It's
>> easier for me to know what is changed between revisions, so what needs
>> to be updated.
>
> It doesn't depend on me, but on the file's translator... Personally, I don't 
> know which translation is made for which version, as the CAT/Kitten standard 
> do not require any versionning information. I am simply comparing how much 
> messages there are in file A and file B (assuming that the one which has more 
> is the most up to date).
>
>> About Freecom: I suppose that CVS version "1.34 2004/12/01 21:20:46" is
>> the same as SVN "Revision 1067**
>
> No idea.
>
>> How comes that the ES translation is more up-to date that
>> the EN one?
>
> As said previously - I am only comparing number of messages in the file 
> (these numbers are also written in the source page of my website...).
> spanish.lng has 254 translated strings, while english.lng has only 182...
>
>> I don't know if they are still useful, let me know.
>
> I don't know either. I is a question which you should send to the 
> freedos-installer guy (whoever it is, dunno if there are somebody working on 
> the 1.1 installer at all...)
>
> see you!
> Mateusz Viste
>
>
>> Mateusz Viste wrote:
>> > Hi all!
>> >
>> > It has been a long time that the "poor translation management" was 
>> > bothering me. There is no easy way to know what needs to be translated, 
>> > and what is already translated but not shipped with the package for 
>> > whatever reason.
>> >
>> > I worked a moment today on a new project: The FreeDOS localisation project:
>> >
>> > http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/fdlang/
>> >
>> > I think that such centralized translation point could greatly improve 
>> > FreeDOS translations, as people would know exactly what has to be 
>> > translated, where to check wheter any translations for a given program has 
>> > been made, and where to send any self-made translations.
>> >
>> > Don't hesitate to send me any translations you have, which aren't listed 
>> > on my website!
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Mateusz Viste
> --
> You'll find my public OpenPGP key at 
> http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key
>
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>

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Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[Mateusz Viste]

On Wednesday 08 April 2009 15:17 (CEST), Roberto Mariottini wrote:
> In particular you can find the translations of DISKCOPY, MOVE, SORT and 
> TREE.

Cool, I grabed them just now :)

> Can you indicate the version at the beginning of the EN file? It's 
> easier for me to know what is changed between revisions, so what needs 
> to be updated.

It doesn't depend on me, but on the file's translator... Personally, I don't 
know which translation is made for which version, as the CAT/Kitten standard do 
not require any versionning information. I am simply comparing how much 
messages there are in file A and file B (assuming that the one which has more 
is the most up to date).

> About Freecom: I suppose that CVS version "1.34 2004/12/01 21:20:46" is 
> the same as SVN "Revision 1067** 

No idea.

> How comes that the ES translation is more up-to date that 
> the EN one?

As said previously - I am only comparing number of messages in the file (these 
numbers are also written in the source page of my website...).
spanish.lng has 254 translated strings, while english.lng has only 182...

> I don't know if they are still useful, let me know.

I don't know either. I is a question which you should send to the 
freedos-installer guy (whoever it is, dunno if there are somebody working on 
the 1.1 installer at all...)

see you!
Mateusz Viste


> Mateusz Viste wrote:
> > Hi all!
> >
> > It has been a long time that the "poor translation management" was 
> > bothering me. There is no easy way to know what needs to be translated, and 
> > what is already translated but not shipped with the package for whatever 
> > reason.
> >
> > I worked a moment today on a new project: The FreeDOS localisation project:
> >
> > http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/fdlang/
> >
> > I think that such centralized translation point could greatly improve 
> > FreeDOS translations, as people would know exactly what has to be 
> > translated, where to check wheter any translations for a given program has 
> > been made, and where to send any self-made translations.
> >
> > Don't hesitate to send me any translations you have, which aren't listed on 
> > my website!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Mateusz Viste
-- 
You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key


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Re: [Freedos-user] [Freedosuser] FreeDOS localisation project

[Roberto Mariottini]

Hi,
some more Italian translations are available at my Italian FreeDOS page:

http://www.mariottini.net/freedos/english.html

In particular you can find the translations of DISKCOPY, MOVE, SORT and 
TREE.
In the next weeks I can look at the missing programs to translate them 
as well.

Can you indicate the version at the beginning of the EN file? It's 
easier for me to know what is changed between revisions, so what needs 
to be updated.

About Freecom: I suppose that CVS version "1.34 2004/12/01 21:20:46" is 
the same as SVN "Revision 1067** 
", 
am I right? How comes that the ES translation is more up-to date that 
the EN one?

Another note: in my page you can find the file setup-it.zip, that 
contains all the localized files for the FreeDOS Install program. The 
ones included in the FreeDOS 1.0 version were old and used the wrong 
codepage. I don't know if they are still useful, let me know.

Ciao


Mateusz Viste wrote:
> Hi all!
>
> It has been a long time that the "poor translation management" was bothering 
> me. There is no easy way to know what needs to be translated, and what is 
> already translated but not shipped with the package for whatever reason.
>
> I worked a moment today on a new project: The FreeDOS localisation project:
>
> http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/fdlang/
>
> I think that such centralized translation point could greatly improve FreeDOS 
> translations, as people would know exactly what has to be translated, where 
> to check wheter any translations for a given program has been made, and where 
> to send any self-made translations.
>
> Don't hesitate to send me any translations you have, which aren't listed on 
> my website!
>
> Best regards,
> Mateusz Viste
>   
> 
>
> --
>   
> 
>
> ___
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> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>   

-- 

Roberto Mariottini
Software Development Department Engineer
PRIMA ELECTRONICS SpA, strada Carignano 48/2 - 10024 Moncalieri (TO) - 
Italia
tel. +39 011 6827 289 fax +39 011 6404 277
e-mail: roberto.mariott...@primaelectronics.com

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