Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
Hi! About using USB mice with cutemouse: Sometimes your BIOS has built-in USB drivers and the ability to mimick (by hardware virtualization or similar) the reactions of an imaginary PS/2 controller to an imaginary PS/2 mouse which follows the button presses and movements of the USB mouse. Depending on how well that works, cutemouse in PS/2 style settings will work with your USB mouse as long as your BIOS has "legacy OS support" or similar on. Note that this can have rather mediocre timing and the various layers of overhead can affect gaming experience if you use your USB mouse for a game. Note also Bret's comments about mice which support both PS/2 and USB connectivity internally, with a wiring adapter, as opposed to USB adapters which have built-in computers to talk to old PS/2 mice. Anything apart from real PS/2 mice connected to real PS/2 ports will need some drivers beyond cutemouse: Either the legacy magic in your BIOS mentioned above or actual USB drivers for DOS, which luckily exist. Cheers, Eric PS: It would be interesting to know in which cases msmouse works while ctmouse does not. Make sure to try different versions and settings of ctmouse. The legacy BIOS support might work better in creating a virtual PS/2 controller on one PC and better in supporting BIOS interface based PS/2 on another PC. > I've had problem getting cutemouse to work on some PCs. > Try msmouse that is what I use when cutemouse doesn't > work. As far as usb goes check your bios setting, there is > often a bios setting for legacy OS so you can plug stuff > into a usb port and it converts to ps2. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
Late to the party regarding this, but there is a lot of misinformation being stated. USB and PS2 protocols are COMPLETELY different from each other -- barely even in the same universe. You can't "convert" from one to the other. You can talk to the mouse hardware with one protocol and then virtualize the other to the software, but you can't just plug PS2 wires into a USB port (or vice versa) by moving wires around and expect it to work. The first mice used regular serial ports (RS-232) or a special card that plugged into the spare slots that old computers had lots of (these were called bus mice). After that came the PS2 mice, which pretty much became the standard before USB was developed. When USB was just starting out, there were mice being made that understood INTERNALLY both PS2 and USB protocols and came with a simple wiring adapter. Those particular mice understood both PS2 and USB protocols, automatically detected which kind of port they were plugged into, and selected the correct internal parts to do what they needed. AFAIK those USB/PS2 "dual-mode" mice aren't being made any more, but they were popular for awhile. I think you can also still get adapters that will let you plug PS2 mice and/or keyboards into modern computers that only have USB ports, but those are much more than simple wiring adapters. There is a "block" in the middle of the cable which has a bunch of hardware and software/firmware in it that talks in two different directions with two different protocols and does the necessary buffering/translation/virtualization so the the computer believes it is talking to a USB mouse when it actually isn't. When USB was first being contemplated, one of the main goals of computer design efforts was to move everything up into the Operating System so that a BIOS was no longer needed. That goal has now essentially been achieved with modern UEFI systems that don't even have a BIOS any more. The problem with that idea was that you still need a keyboard and/or a mouse when the computer first boots up (before the Operating System even loads) so you can do things like change BIOS or UEFI settings. You also need a keyboard and/or mouse in older Operating Systems (like DOS) that were developed way before USB was created (though computer manufacturers don't care very much about that any more). The USB protocol is WAY more complicated than the PS2 protocol and they couldn't expect the BIOS manufacturers to provide USB support directly (after all, the intent was to move USB support up to the Operating System and not even have a BIOS). So they needed to come up with a way to virtualize a PS2 mouse from USB before the Operating System is loaded. This virtualization can't just occur in software, but must also be assisted by the hardware (PS2 is a hardware protocol, not a software protocol). The hardware portion of the virtualization is provided by a combination of the USB host controller, special capabilities of the PCI bus, and a special operating mode of the CPU called System Management Mode (SMM). The whole process is really a giant, complicated kludge, but was one of the first steps necessary for the ultimate elimination of the BIOS. This is a complicated subject and I can go on for awhile longer about details if anybody cares -- some if it is already discussed in the documentation provided for my USB drivers. Bottom line, though, is that you CAN'T just interchange PS2 and USB mice with wiring adapters and expect everything to work out just fine. In some cases it will, but in most cases it will not. Urgent Alert: Doing This In The Shower Destroys Testosterone pro.healthresponses.org http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d544f1d6c3a44f1d37b6st03vuc ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
I've had problem getting cutemouse to work on some PCs. Try msmouse that is what I use when cutemouse doesn't work. As far as usb goes check your bios setting, there is often a bios setting for legacy OS so you can plug stuff into a usb port and it converts to ps2. cheers DS On Tue, 6 Aug 2019 15:19:48 -0400 Tom Messmer writes: > Hello, > I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that Iâve installed > Freedos on. Iâm a unix guy and have very little experience with > dos, so bear with me if you could. Everything installed nicely, and > it certainly performs like a champ, however the Cutemouse driver > simply doesnât work with the touchpad. Iâve tried flipping > various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and vertical > settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips out > and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has > zero options for the trackpad fyi. > > Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any > assistance would be greatly appreciated. > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ** >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052 *** 1 Cup (Before Bed) Burns Belly Fat Like Crazy! worldhealthlabs.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5d4edae14b6df5ae17e2est03duc ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 5:44 PM Tom Messmer wrote: > > For the record, just using a ps/2 to USB adaptor fixed the problem and it > works fine. Oh, cool! I mentioned PS/2->USB adapters upthread, but wasn't sure it would work. Apparently, CuteMoiuse sees PS/2, and the fact it actually connects through USB doesn't matter. Noted for future reference. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
For the record, just using a ps/2 to USB adaptor fixed the problem and it works fine. > On Aug 7, 2019, at 11:50 PM, Louis Santillan wrote: > > You may want to look through the BIOS and ensure something like "USB > legacy support" is turned on. > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 6:28 PM Tom Messmer > wrote: >> >> I appreciate all the suggestions, thanks everyone. >> >>> On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:59 PM, David McMackins wrote: >>> >>> I will throw in my own experience here in case it is relevant. >>> >>> I have a 1999 Sony Vaio with a built in trackpad. If I load ctmouse with >>> no external hardware, the trackpad works fine. If then connect an >>> external PS/2 mouse, that mouse will work fine too. If, however, I load >>> ctmouse with both connected, then I get your symptom of erratically >>> moving cursor as well as display glitching. >>> >>> >>> Happy Hacking, >>> >>> David E. McMackins II >>> www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com >>> >>> On 8/6/19 2:19 PM, Tom Messmer wrote: Hello, I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips out and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero options for the trackpad fyi. Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Freedos-user mailing list >>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> >> >> >> ___ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
You may want to look through the BIOS and ensure something like "USB legacy support" is turned on. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 6:28 PM Tom Messmer wrote: > > I appreciate all the suggestions, thanks everyone. > > > On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:59 PM, David McMackins wrote: > > > > I will throw in my own experience here in case it is relevant. > > > > I have a 1999 Sony Vaio with a built in trackpad. If I load ctmouse with > > no external hardware, the trackpad works fine. If then connect an > > external PS/2 mouse, that mouse will work fine too. If, however, I load > > ctmouse with both connected, then I get your symptom of erratically > > moving cursor as well as display glitching. > > > > > > Happy Hacking, > > > > David E. McMackins II > > www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com > > > > On 8/6/19 2:19 PM, Tom Messmer wrote: > >> Hello, > >> I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. > >> I’m a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me > >> if you could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like > >> a champ, however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the > >> touchpad. I’ve tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including > >> horizontal and vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow > >> cursor just flips out and zips around the screen at random. The bios on > >> this thing has zero options for the trackpad fyi. > >> > >> Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance > >> would be greatly appreciated. > >> > >> ___ > >> Freedos-user mailing list > >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > >> > > > > > > ___ > > Freedos-user mailing list > > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
I appreciate all the suggestions, thanks everyone. > On Aug 6, 2019, at 5:59 PM, David McMackins wrote: > > I will throw in my own experience here in case it is relevant. > > I have a 1999 Sony Vaio with a built in trackpad. If I load ctmouse with > no external hardware, the trackpad works fine. If then connect an > external PS/2 mouse, that mouse will work fine too. If, however, I load > ctmouse with both connected, then I get your symptom of erratically > moving cursor as well as display glitching. > > > Happy Hacking, > > David E. McMackins II > www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com > > On 8/6/19 2:19 PM, Tom Messmer wrote: >> Hello, >> I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m >> a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you >> could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, >> however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve >> tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and >> vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips >> out and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero >> options for the trackpad fyi. >> >> Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance >> would be greatly appreciated. >> >> ___ >> Freedos-user mailing list >> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user >> > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
I will throw in my own experience here in case it is relevant. I have a 1999 Sony Vaio with a built in trackpad. If I load ctmouse with no external hardware, the trackpad works fine. If then connect an external PS/2 mouse, that mouse will work fine too. If, however, I load ctmouse with both connected, then I get your symptom of erratically moving cursor as well as display glitching. Happy Hacking, David E. McMackins II www.mcmackins.org www.delwink.com On 8/6/19 2:19 PM, Tom Messmer wrote: > Hello, > I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m > a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you > could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, > however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve > tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and > vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips out > and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero options > for the trackpad fyi. > > Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance would > be greatly appreciated. > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
> I agree about trackpads, they’re awful. The only port this thing > has is a USB port and a usb mouse didn’t really fare any better than > the trackpad, and I don’t think cutemouse supports usb mice either. most likely your trackpad is connected to the motherboard via an internal USB port, just like your keyboard. this stuff is no longer connected through PS/2 ports. most 'modern' BIOS support 'legacy' support for keyboard, mouse, otherwise you wouldn't see any mouse movement at all. of course this doesn't help you :( Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:14 PM Tom Messmer wrote: > > I agree about trackpads, they’re awful. The only port this thing has is a > USB port and a usb mouse didn’t really fare any better than the trackpad, and > I don’t think cutemouse supports usb mice either. Supporting *anything* in USB in DOS is problematic. USB didn't exist when DOS was written. FreeDOS is designed to reproduce DOS, so support for stuff that came later mostly isn't there. I had FreeDOS as part of a multi-boot setup on an ancient Fujitsu notebook, along with Win2K and a couple of flavors of Linux. It had a third party add-on card with two USB2 ports. I could not get FreeDOS to see/use them - no drivers. (Windows and Linux could use the ports.) You can get USB->PS/2 adapters that will let you plug in things like PS/2 mice, but I don't think they would help you. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
I agree about trackpads, they’re awful. The only port this thing has is a USB port and a usb mouse didn’t really fare any better than the trackpad, and I don’t think cutemouse supports usb mice either. > On Aug 6, 2019, at 4:08 PM, dmccunney wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 3:21 PM Tom Messmer > wrote: >> >> I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m >> a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you >> could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, >> however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve >> tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and >> vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips >> out and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero >> options for the trackpad fyi. >> >> Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance >> would be greatly appreciated. > > I don't believe you can do this. CuteMouse is written to support PS/2 > mice in DOS. I don't think it will see the trackpad. (Trackpads > didn't exist in the DOS days). > Details are at http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/ > > Do you have an actual mouse you can plug in? > > (Speaking personally, I loathe trackpads, and use an actual mouse > where possible) > __ > Dennis > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 3:21 PM Tom Messmer wrote: > > I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m > a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you > could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, > however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve > tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and > vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips out > and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero options > for the trackpad fyi. > > Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance would > be greatly appreciated. I don't believe you can do this. CuteMouse is written to support PS/2 mice in DOS. I don't think it will see the trackpad. (Trackpads didn't exist in the DOS days). Details are at http://cutemouse.sourceforge.net/ Do you have an actual mouse you can plug in? (Speaking personally, I loathe trackpads, and use an actual mouse where possible) __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] HP laptop touchpad
Hello, I have an old HP Pavillion dv6000 laptop that I’ve installed Freedos on. I’m a unix guy and have very little experience with dos, so bear with me if you could. Everything installed nicely, and it certainly performs like a champ, however the Cutemouse driver simply doesn’t work with the touchpad. I’ve tried flipping various options with Cutemouse including horizontal and vertical settings, etc with the same outcome: the arrow cursor just flips out and zips around the screen at random. The bios on this thing has zero options for the trackpad fyi. Is it possible to get a touchpad working with Cutemouse? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
