Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread DALE E STERNER 
From: Dale E Sterner 

If your using a cf flash chip; remember that you have to
run fdisk/mbr to get a usable mbr and the chip has to
set to active mode with fdisk - otherwise it won't boot
for you.


DS


On Mon, 2 Jan 2017 02:33:10 +0100 userbeit...@abwesend.de writes:
> Hello again!
> I just wanted to report back for all of you who helped me and gave
> great
> inputs.
>
> Thanks for the CHS/LBA info.
> This is an IDE Flash module that goes directly into the MBs slot. It
>
> doesn't allow to connect another device beside it, so it also
> doesn't
> have a master/slave jumper.
>
> It has a capacity of 512 MB. I tested it on another PC, from around
> 2000, which auto-detected it as C/H/S 993/16/63 (no boot-up as it
> was
> still empty at that time, I just did the BIOS auto-detection).
>
>
> On the 486 I've put that in for the IDE device as custom type 82.
> The
> other values, LZ and WP, I left at 0. I assume for a flash drive
> they
> are simply not important.
>
> But it doesn't boot. It halts with the error message: "partition
> signature != 55AA"
>
> I've personally checked: all partitions and the MBR have that
> signature.
>
> I managed to find an old external USB HDD which has an IDE interface
>
> inside, and I connected the flash module to my regular PC.
>
>  > # dmesg | tail
>  > [23705.522176] scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access TRANSCEN
> D PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
>  > [23705.522746] sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0
>  > [23705.523265] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] 1000944 512-byte logical blocks:
>
> (512 MB/489 MiB)
>  > [23705.524141] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Write Protect is off
>  > [23705.524145] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Mode Sense: 27 00 00 00
>  > [23705.525012] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] No Caching mode page found
>  > [23705.525018] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Assuming drive cache: write
> through
>  > [23705.528556]  sdc: sdc1 sdc2 sdc3
>  > [23705.531653] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Attached SCSI disk
>
>  > # parted /dev/sdc print
>  > Model: TRANSCEN D (scsi)
>  > Disk /dev/sdc: 512MB
>  > Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
>  > Partition Table: msdos
>  > Disk Flags:
>  >
>  > Number  Start   End SizeType File system  Flags
>  >  1  32,3kB  52,7MB  52,7MB  primary
>  >  2  52,7MB  74,0MB  21,3MB  primary
>  >  3  74,0MB  480MB   406MB   primary  fat16boot
>
> As you can see, the third primary partition is for FreeDOS. I've
> decided
> to create a 50 MB partition for DR DOS and a 20 MB partition for
> MS-DOS
> or any other DOS I want to test (like PC DOS, PTS-DOS).
>
> The third partition has been made bootable with "format c: /s /q".
> I've
> also rewritten the MBR using "fdisk /mbr". All partitions are
> formated.
> The first two partitions are otherwise empty.
>
> I've also used Linux's dd (e.g. "dd if=/dev/sdc1 bs=512 count=1
> of=bootsec1.bin") to check if the boot signature 55AA is present on
> all
> partitions + on the MBR and it is.
>
>
> Thinking logically: If the BIOS wouldn't check, it should boot. The
> MBR
> code should find the active partition #3 and chainload the
> bootsector.
> This should include the bootcode for FreeDOS, since I've formated it
>
> with /s and the system files are on the parition.
> I hate it when a BIOS checks stuff that it rather shouldn't care
> about!
>
> Any other error message and it could have been FreeDOS, but I am
> sure
> this one if from the BIOS _before_ it executes the MBR boot code.
>
>
>
> Maybe the next time I will try only one partition first... Anyway:
> again, I've come to a halt for now.
>
> I appreciated your help.
> Happy 2017.
> Userbeitrag.
>
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


How To Fix Cracked Feet
Dermal Medix
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/586ab967437fb39670482st51duc

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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread userbeit...@abwesend.de 
From: userbeit...@abwesend.de

Hello again!
I just wanted to report back for all of you who helped me and gave great
inputs.

Thanks for the CHS/LBA info.
This is an IDE Flash module that goes directly into the MBs slot. It
doesn't allow to connect another device beside it, so it also doesn't
have a master/slave jumper.

It has a capacity of 512 MB. I tested it on another PC, from around
2000, which auto-detected it as C/H/S 993/16/63 (no boot-up as it was
still empty at that time, I just did the BIOS auto-detection).


On the 486 I've put that in for the IDE device as custom type 82. The
other values, LZ and WP, I left at 0. I assume for a flash drive they
are simply not important.

But it doesn't boot. It halts with the error message: "partition
signature != 55AA"

I've personally checked: all partitions and the MBR have that signature.

I managed to find an old external USB HDD which has an IDE interface
inside, and I connected the flash module to my regular PC.

 > # dmesg | tail
 > [23705.522176] scsi 7:0:0:0: Direct-Access TRANSCEN
D PQ: 0 ANSI: 0
 > [23705.522746] sd 7:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg3 type 0
 > [23705.523265] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] 1000944 512-byte logical blocks:
(512 MB/489 MiB)
 > [23705.524141] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Write Protect is off
 > [23705.524145] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Mode Sense: 27 00 00 00
 > [23705.525012] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] No Caching mode page found
 > [23705.525018] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Assuming drive cache: write through
 > [23705.528556]  sdc: sdc1 sdc2 sdc3
 > [23705.531653] sd 7:0:0:0: [sdc] Attached SCSI disk

 > # parted /dev/sdc print
 > Model: TRANSCEN D (scsi)
 > Disk /dev/sdc: 512MB
 > Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
 > Partition Table: msdos
 > Disk Flags:
 >
 > Number  Start   End SizeType File system  Flags
 >  1  32,3kB  52,7MB  52,7MB  primary
 >  2  52,7MB  74,0MB  21,3MB  primary
 >  3  74,0MB  480MB   406MB   primary  fat16boot

As you can see, the third primary partition is for FreeDOS. I've decided
to create a 50 MB partition for DR DOS and a 20 MB partition for MS-DOS
or any other DOS I want to test (like PC DOS, PTS-DOS).

The third partition has been made bootable with "format c: /s /q". I've
also rewritten the MBR using "fdisk /mbr". All partitions are formated.
The first two partitions are otherwise empty.

I've also used Linux's dd (e.g. "dd if=/dev/sdc1 bs=512 count=1
of=bootsec1.bin") to check if the boot signature 55AA is present on all
partitions + on the MBR and it is.


Thinking logically: If the BIOS wouldn't check, it should boot. The MBR
code should find the active partition #3 and chainload the bootsector.
This should include the bootcode for FreeDOS, since I've formated it
with /s and the system files are on the parition.
I hate it when a BIOS checks stuff that it rather shouldn't care about!

Any other error message and it could have been FreeDOS, but I am sure
this one if from the BIOS _before_ it executes the MBR boot code.



Maybe the next time I will try only one partition first... Anyway:
again, I've come to a halt for now.

I appreciated your help.
Happy 2017.
Userbeitrag.


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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread JOSE ANTONIO SENNA 
from: Jose Antonio Senna



 userbeit...@abwesend.de  said:
>  The PC I will install on, is a Pentium-D, has >2 GHz and >3GB RAM

 Mateus Viste said:
>  You have to make sure tough that both  computers use the exact same
> CHS/LBA/Large addressing schemes to access  the drive.
>  Your 486 probably needs you to enter these by hand anyway, but
>  the newer PC surely uses some hdd autodetection and might be
> tempted to rely on some more modern addressing model that might
>  or might not work out when moved to your 486.

  This is something that came to my mind after I posted my previous message.
  As Mateus Viste said, both computers MUST see  the same HD geometry,
or the target will be unable to boot anything at all.
  If your installing computer can enter setup mode by pressing DEL key
at start, before it tries to boot the O/S, then you may use the setup mode
to check how it views the HDD and afterwards configure the 486 to use
the same configuration (a 486 certainly can enter setup mode). If the
installing computer auto configures the HDD to a geometry not
available in the 486, you may change the geometry by hand to one
acceptable by both machines.

  I assume, from your messages, that you want a dual boot but now
have a blank HD.
  If you already have your PC-?booting DRDOS, then it is better to just copy
the FreeDOS package to the HD, then put it back in the 486 and perform
the installation there. Use the new computer to copy also a boot manager
to the HD, if the FreeDOS distro does not already have one.
 Again, pay attention to the HD geometry in every case you exchange it
between computers.
 The installing computer will probably correctly autodetect the geometry
of a partitioned HD, but it is better to check before any attempt to write
to it, in order to avoid garbling the HD contents.

Regards
JAS



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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread MATEUSZ VISTE 
From: Mateusz Viste 

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:44:47 +0100, userbeitrag wrote:
> What I can do thou is plug the IDE HDD into another PC and pre-load
> FreeDOS there. Then, connecting the IDE HDD inside the 486-PC, FreeDOS
> should start.

That's correct, if done carefully. You have to make sure tough that both
computers use the exact same CHS/LBA/Large addressing schemes to access
the drive. Your 486 probably needs you to enter these by hand anyway, but
the newer PC surely uses some hdd autodetection and might be tempted to
rely on some more modern addressing model that might or might not work
out when moved to your 486.

> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so, this
> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very different
> PC.

Nothing that you should worry about. The XMS, CD, etc drivers are the
same for all hardware anyway. Worst case scenario you will have to remove
the line related to the CD-ROM driver and add a line for loading the
packet driver for your network card, if you have any.

> Has this been done before? And how would I do it?

Yes, by me at least, many times. That's exactly how I installed FreeDOS
on all my current 386 & 486 laptops. As long as you're careful with the
CHS stuff you'll be fine.

Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread userbeit...@abwesend.de 
From: userbeit...@abwesend.de

Hello!

On 2016-12-30 18:39, Rugxulo wrote:
>   > I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in
>   > the 486-PC.
>
> Is the drive itself broken or you don't have a working floppy disk or ...?

I tried old floppy disks in a USB FDD that I acquired, but it doesn't
work. I don't know if the floppy drive or the floppies are broken.

Anyway, I would prefer another solution: the HDD works in this more
modern PC, so I really think that I should install it from USB or CD-ROM
there and then transfer the HDD to the 486-PC.

Thanks,
userbeitrag.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread userbeit...@abwesend.de 
From: userbeit...@abwesend.de

Jerome and Louis, thanks!

>> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so, this
>> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very different
PC.
> Yes a little. Only to compensate for the different quirks in the common vm
platforms.
> So, if you install to real hardware then stick the drive in the old machine,
you will be fine.
So, this means that my newer PC will make no difference?
The PC I will install on, is a Pentium-D, has >2 GHz and >3GB RAM. This
drive is actually an IDE flash drive that is connected directly to the
mainboards ATA connector. It all is far more modern than the 486 PC with
50 MHz and 8 MB RAM.


>> 2) Can I install something like the installation environment itself?
> Yes.
>
> If you have a spare drive laying around, you can just copy the intire
filesystem from one of the USB images to the root of that drive. Boot your old
Dos, switch to drive D: and run setup.bat
>
> This is how the DOSBox install works. Albeit it detects DOSBox and
customized the install process somewhat.

Thanks. So my plan is now to make two partitions, one for FreeDOS and
one for the unmodified installer that I will simply copy there.

The second partition will eventually become a data+programs partition
for games and such.

Most likely I will eventually also install DR DOS, so I will create a
third partition for later use.

> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so, this
> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very different PC.

Yes a little. Only to compensate for the different quirks in the common vm
platforms.
So, if you install to real hardware then stick the drive in the old machine,
you will be fine.


> One other thing you can try with VirtualBox (and Bochs, and QEMU,
> probably VMware Player) is use device pass through and install
> directly to the drive there using the VM (VirtualBox calls it raw
> access)[0][1]. The machine running the VM will likely be faster than
> your 486 and so the install should be faster. The only issue could be
> that FreeDOS FDISK detects LBA BIOS and put thats in boot sector
> partition type but I believe the kernel should be correctly handle
> that case and adjust its drive access routines accordingly when you
> replace the drive back in your 486.

I thought about that as well, but I really think that would be even
worse than the other real PC I could use. I used direct access to
physical drives and partitions, so I know the procedure.


Anyway, thanks very much for your help!
userbeitrag.

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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread JEROME SHIDEL 
From: Jerome Shidel 



> On Dec 30, 2016, at 11:44 AM, userbeit...@abwesend.de wrote:
>
> Hi, fellow FreeDOS users! I need your help.
>
>
> I have an original Intel 80486 with 50 MHz that I want to try FreeDOS
> on. I still haven't found the time so far an my first attempt came to an
> early halt because I couldn't get an installation media to start on this
> machine.
>
>
> *) The 486-PC doesn't have a CD-ROM drive.
>
> *) The 486-PC doesn't have USB.
>
> *) I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in the 486-PC.
>
>
> What I can do thou is plug the IDE HDD into another PC and pre-load
> FreeDOS there. Then, connecting the IDE HDD inside the 486-PC, FreeDOS
> should start.
>
>
> The Question:
>
> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so, this
> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very different PC.

Yes a little. Only to compensate for the different quirks in the common vm
platforms.
So, if you install to real hardware then stick the drive in the old machine,
you will be fine.

> 2) Can I install something like the installation environment itself?

Yes.

If you have a spare drive laying around, you can just copy the intire
filesystem from one of the USB images to the root of that drive. Boot your old
Dos, switch to drive D: and run setup.bat

This is how the DOSBox install works. Albeit it detects DOSBox and customized
the install process somewhat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLjVYqF3zg&sns=em

> 3) The outcome should be that it boots on the 486-PC and starts the
> installer from there, to create all necessary CONFIG.SYS and
> AUTOEXEC.BAT entries and to select the software to be installed. The
> installer files may remain as capacity is not a factor on this HDD anyhow.
>
>
> Has this been done before? And how would I do it?
>
> Help highly appreciated!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> userbeitrag.
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread RUGXULO 
From: Rugxulo 

--===1947467669150845460==
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Hi,

On Dec 30, 2016 10:46 AM,  wrote:
>
> I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in
> the 486-PC.

Is the drive itself broken or you don't have a working floppy disk or ...?

--f403045e2abe5e83b50544e3b0fb
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Hi,
On Dec 30, 2016 10:46 AM, userbeit...@abwesend.de>
wrote:
>
> I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in
> the 486-PC.
Is the drive itself broken or you don't have a working floppy disk or
?

--f403045e2abe5e83b50544e3b0fb--


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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread LOUIS SANTILLAN 
From: Louis Santillan 

One other thing you can try with VirtualBox (and Bochs, and QEMU,
probably VMware Player) is use device pass through and install
directly to the drive there using the VM (VirtualBox calls it raw
access)[0][1]. The machine running the VM will likely be faster than
your 486 and so the install should be faster. The only issue could be
that FreeDOS FDISK detects LBA BIOS and put thats in boot sector
partition type but I believe the kernel should be correctly handle
that case and adjust its drive access routines accordingly when you
replace the drive back in your 486.

Jeremy, Tom, Rugxulo might be able to correct me on that last point.

Otherwise, like others have said, get the IDE drive mounted in
Windows, Linux or OSX, without changing anything else, create a folder
for the FreeDOS Installer Image and copy the entire file structure of
the installer to it.

[0] https://www.virtualbox.org/manual/ch09.html#idm7683
[1] http://wiki.qemu.org/download/qemu-doc.html#host_005fdrives

On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Jerome Shidel  wrote:
>
>
>> On Dec 30, 2016, at 11:44 AM, userbeit...@abwesend.de wrote:
>>
>> Hi, fellow FreeDOS users! I need your help.
>>
>>
>> I have an original Intel 80486 with 50 MHz that I want to try FreeDOS
>> on. I still haven't found the time so far an my first attempt came to an
>> early halt because I couldn't get an installation media to start on this
>> machine.
>>
>>
>> *) The 486-PC doesn't have a CD-ROM drive.
>>
>> *) The 486-PC doesn't have USB.
>>
>> *) I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in the 486-PC.
>>
>>
>> What I can do thou is plug the IDE HDD into another PC and pre-load
>> FreeDOS there. Then, connecting the IDE HDD inside the 486-PC, FreeDOS
>> should start.
>>
>>
>> The Question:
>>
>> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so, this
>> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very different
PC.
>
> Yes a little. Only to compensate for the different quirks in the common vm
platforms.
> So, if you install to real hardware then stick the drive in the old machine,
you will be fine.
>
>> 2) Can I install something like the installation environment itself?
>
> Yes.
>
> If you have a spare drive laying around, you can just copy the intire
filesystem from one of the USB images to the root of that drive. Boot your old
Dos, switch to drive D: and run setup.bat
>
> This is how the DOSBox install works. Albeit it detects DOSBox and
customized the install process somewhat.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLjVYqF3zg&sns=em
>
>> 3) The outcome should be that it boots on the 486-PC and starts the
>> installer from there, to create all necessary CONFIG.SYS and
>> AUTOEXEC.BAT entries and to select the software to be installed. The
>> installer files may remain as capacity is not a factor on this HDD anyhow.
>>
>>
>> Has this been done before? And how would I do it?
>>
>> Help highly appreciated!
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> userbeitrag.
>>
>>
>>
--
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>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
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>> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Preloa

2017-05-06 Thread DALE E STERNER 
From: Dale E Sterner 

If you have an IDE HD; you might try it the way I do.
I use compact flash chips which have a standard IDE
interface. I installed freedos on a chip and move it
from one computer to another so far without problems.
You just need a cf chip and an adapter both for sale
on Amazon. It boots strait to freedos, not running
under windows or anything else. On old machines
I would expect it to work.

cheers
DS

..

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 17:44:47 +0100 userbeit...@abwesend.de writes:
> Hi, fellow FreeDOS users! I need your help.
>
>
> I have an original Intel 80486 with 50 MHz that I want to try
> FreeDOS
> on. I still haven't found the time so far an my first attempt came
> to an
> early halt because I couldn't get an installation media to start on
> this
> machine.
>
>
> *) The 486-PC doesn't have a CD-ROM drive.
>
> *) The 486-PC doesn't have USB.
>
> *) I cannot easily create a 3.5 inch boot floppy to use it in the
> 486-PC.
>
>
> What I can do thou is plug the IDE HDD into another PC and pre-load
> FreeDOS there. Then, connecting the IDE HDD inside the 486-PC,
> FreeDOS
> should start.
>
>
> The Question:
>
> 1) Does the installer check the hardware and make choices? If so,
> this
> would be totally wrong since I will be preloading it on a very
> different PC.
>
> 2) Can I install something like the installation environment itself?
>
> 3) The outcome should be that it boots on the 486-PC and starts the
> installer from there, to create all necessary CONFIG.SYS and
> AUTOEXEC.BAT entries and to select the software to be installed. The
>
> installer files may remain as capacity is not a factor on this HDD
> anyhow.
>
>
> Has this been done before? And how would I do it?
>
> Help highly appreciated!
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> userbeitrag.
>
>
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Freedos-user mailing list
> Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


Warning: Don't Use Probiotics Before You See This
Gundry MD
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58669c6fa2a161c6f1a15st04duc

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