Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
Op 26-12-2012 5:40, dmccunney schreef: I have an old Fujitsu Lifebook p2110 with an 867mhz Transmeta Crusoe CPU and 256MB RAM (of which the Crusoe grabs 16MB off the top for code morphing.) That morphing and learning the architecture is indeed slow for a while, possibly forever. The big issue on the Lifebook is a slow IDE4 HD with an anemic transfer rate. IDE4 is a BIOS limitation, so a faster drive isn't an option. Big apps just load slow, aside from RAM requirements once up. I don't even try to run a current Firefox, as it's really sluggish on Linux or Windows. To the extent I browse from the box (seldom), I use Midori, Opera, SeaMonkey 1.X, or (if in Windows) occasionally IE (long enough to go to a known good site, grab something, and exit.). Economically probably not worthwile, but SSDs exist in various forms. The usual SAS, SATA and PCIe (and mSATA), but also still old IDE in both desktop (40pin) and laptop versions (44pin). I'm not sure if any NT-family Windows version is just as compatible with old software as that Win98 is. Likely Linux with Wine comes close as well. Bernd -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Bernd Blaauw bbla...@home.nl wrote: Op 26-12-2012 5:40, dmccunney schreef: I have an old Fujitsu Lifebook p2110 with an 867mhz Transmeta Crusoe CPU and 256MB RAM (of which the Crusoe grabs 16MB off the top for code morphing.) That morphing and learning the architecture is indeed slow for a while, possibly forever. The CPU is quick enough. Transmeta was an early attempt at power saving for mobile devices (and notable because Linus Torvalds worked for them when they were still in stealth mode and no one knew what they were up to.) A faster CPU wouldn't get me much. Limits on the box have more to do with low RAM and slow drive.I/O. I posed around a bit when I got it looking for info, and it apparently got decent reviews when it was new. It came from Fujitsu with original WinXP, and SP2 seems to have been an after the fact addition by the original owner. I suppose that made performance a bit better, given the way Win service packs tend to increase RAM requirements. The big issue on the Lifebook is a slow IDE4 HD with an anemic transfer rate. IDE4 is a BIOS limitation, so a faster drive isn't an option. Big apps just load slow, aside from RAM requirements once up. I don't even try to run a current Firefox, as it's really sluggish on Linux or Windows. To the extent I browse from the box (seldom), I use Midori, Opera, SeaMonkey 1.X, or (if in Windows) occasionally IE (long enough to go to a known good site, grab something, and exit.). Economically probably not worthwile, but SSDs exist in various forms. The usual SAS, SATA and PCIe (and mSATA), but also still old IDE in both desktop (40pin) and laptop versions (44pin). Absolutely not economically worthwhile. I was given the box by a friend who upgraded, and it's mostly a What can I do to tweak it *without* spending money exercise. For instance, it is supposedly expandable to 384MB RAM with a 128MB RAM daughter card. You can still get that from MemoryX, but it will cost more than 4GB of DDR3 RAM for a current box. And even if I pull the IDE HD and substitute an SSD, I still have the BIOS limitation, so it's not clear things would be a lot quicker. I lose seek time and rotational latency, but still have the issue of how fast data can get into RAM. .I don't know, and am not spending the money required to find you. I'm not sure if any NT-family Windows version is just as compatible with old software as that Win98 is. Likely Linux with Wine comes close as well. Depends on what you're trying to run. I successfully run DOS apps in a console window on 2K. There are a few 32bit windows apps that insist on XP and won't install, but most of what I use does. I haven't had cause to try to run 16bit apps from the Win 3.X days. For the stated use case, I'd install a stripped down version of 98SE if I could get it to work as required. Bernd __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
I just got around to reading this post and I have some specific information that you might find useful. I also still have an old PC Chips K6-2-500 motherboard with the SiS 530 AGP video. It is set up in a box with a hard drive drawer connected as the primary IDE master so I can just stick in any of numerous old hard drives I have around and install an OS. Just something I play around with at times. Just last week I took an old hard drive and installed Windows XP SP3 on this machine, and was surprised to find that it works just fine. My box currently has 384MB of DIMM ram, I would suspect that would be the minimum to try such a thing. As an experiment, I also tried running the latest version of the Firefox browser on this setup, and it did not run so well. So, while the OS seems to do just fine, I am not claiming that this will enable you to effectively run any major current software on this machine. But, I'm sure you could run Windows 2000 on your computer, especially if you shut down all the unnecessary services. The video driver is available on the Internet, the one I found is packaged as: 530_108e_win2000.zip I don't remember the specific site, but I didn't have to register to get the file, it is only 125KB. It was released in 2000 and is, I believe, the last driver ever released for this video adapter. It works just fine in XP. Also, the SiS 530 doesn't seem to provide any VESA 2.0 support. Until this driver was installed, Windows XP only had the standard 640x480 16-color VGA display. Finally, I do not encourage violating the EULA for anybody's software, it is good to respect the developer and legal owner's wishes about these things. However, if all your talking about is using old copies of software that you once actually paid for a single user license on your own old computers in your own home, Microsoft doesn't care. They will NEVER say they don't care, but they really don't care. Not even Microsoft twits are that big of twits. It is illegal the same as riding in a car without a seat belt is illegal, or going 3 miles per hour over the posted speed limit is illegal. And even if there is somebody at Microsoft who actually cares, they would NEVER attempt to prosecute a private individual for this activity for, at least, 2 reasons: 1. It is a potential PR disaster that can gain them nothing financially. 2. Even with highly paid MS lawyers up against a local-yokel attorney, there is still a 50-50 chance that some judge would bang his/her gavel and declare the activity fair use (it has never been officially challenged), and that is something Microsoft would NEVER take such a chance over something so trivial. On 12/20/12, Michael Robinson plu...@robinson-west.com wrote: Windows 98 sort of running on top of a DOS system doesn't work with ipxwrapper-0.4.0. There is an error that iplphapi.dll can't be found or something similar. Turns out, this DLL probably doesn't show up till Windows 2000. So the thought of using Windows 98 boxes and Windows 7 boxes together goes out the Window. A game that was originally run from the DOS command line if I'm not mistaken can't be run from Windows 98SE when Windows 7 is the master server. Yikes! Hmm, I guess I could run 2000 instead even though the computer is only a K6-2 500 and I'd probably have to search for SIS 530 W2K video drivers. Don't have a legal 2nd copy of 2000, but there doesn't seem to be a legal way to solve this. There are a lot of games that aren't DOS games and aren't NT games. Windows 98 in my opinion is a sort of aberration, Microsoft should have skipped Windows 9x in favor of bringing everyone into an NT environment sooner. I'm sure there is a dos driver for my Realtek 8139 10/100 network card. But ipxwrapper is intended for NT and HX probably won't run Warcraft II. I'd love something legal that isn't the full blown Windows 98SE to run games like Warcraft II and Diablo II that are in that transitional period. I just hope that the ReactOS developers get something stable put together soon. I have a Windows XP Home upgrade kit, it is in use though. I'm worried that XP won't even run on this old machine, but I guess stripped down I can get away with it. Sadly, XP phones home so Microsoft will know that I'm running it illegally. What is needed is a protected mode DOS like Windows 98SE, but much lighter, that can run directx 6 or so and do the ipxwrapper trick. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:58 PM, mcelha...@usnetizen.com wrote: Just last week I took an old hard drive and installed Windows XP SP3 on this machine, and was surprised to find that it works just fine. My box currently has 384MB of DIMM ram, I would suspect that would be the minimum to try such a thing. As an experiment, I also tried running the latest version of the Firefox browser on this setup, and it did not run so well. So, while the OS seems to do just fine, I am not claiming that this will enable you to effectively run any major current software on this machine. But, I'm sure you could run Windows 2000 on your computer, especially if you shut down all the unnecessary services. I have an old Fujitsu Lifebook p2110 with an 867mhz Transmeta Crusoe CPU and 256MB RAM (of which the Crusoe grabs 16MB off the top for code morphing.) It came to me with WinXP SP2 installed, and was frozen snail slow, taking 8 minutes to just boot, even after stripping StartUp, turning off services, etc. It was doing a good imitation of mainframe death by thrashing, where the machine spent more time swapping than actually running programs. 512MB is really the minimum I recommend for XP, and I'm pleasantly surprised XP ran as well as you report in 384MB. I repartitioned, reformatted, and installed Win2K SP4 on NTFS, Puppy and Ubuntu Linux on ext4, and FreeDOS on FAT32. Pruning what was loaded on StartUp to the minimum required and turning off unneeded services let me get Window's usage down to about 180MB. It's actually a bit more sprightly than either Linux install, for just the OS. Once you go beyond that, things change. The big issue on the Lifebook is a slow IDE4 HD with an anemic transfer rate. IDE4 is a BIOS limitation, so a faster drive isn't an option. Big apps just load slow, aside from RAM requirements once up. I don't even try to run a current Firefox, as it's really sluggish on Linux or Windows. To the extent I browse from the box (seldom), I use Midori, Opera, SeaMonkey 1.X, or (if in Windows) occasionally IE (long enough to go to a known good site, grab something, and exit.). And even if there is somebody at Microsoft who actually cares, they would NEVER attempt to prosecute a private individual for this activity for, at least, 2 reasons: 1. It is a potential PR disaster that can gain them nothing financially. And it would cost them more to bring action than the results could possibly justify, 2. Even with highly paid MS lawyers up against a local-yokel attorney, there is still a 50-50 chance that some judge would bang his/her gavel and declare the activity fair use (it has never been officially challenged), and that is something Microsoft would NEVER take such a chance over something so trivial. That would set a precedent, and is the last thing MS would want. An under licensed copy or so of 98 or 2K in the hands of a home user? They don't care. Since they no longer sell/support either, they are not being deprived of revenue. __ Dennis https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519 -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
Microsoft should have skipped Windows 9x in favor of bringing everyone into an NT environment sooner. Right ... and even better skip Win16 and MS-DOG too ;-) HX probably won't run Warcraft II You still didn't reveal whether the thing is a DOS or Win16 or Win32 binary :WtF: open source IPX/SPX implementation that works on all versions of Windows up to 8 Maybe true but not really FreeDOS related. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
Windows 98 sort of running on top of a DOS system doesn't work with ipxwrapper-0.4.0. There is an error that iplphapi.dll can't be found or something similar. Turns out, this DLL probably doesn't show up till Windows 2000. So the thought of using Windows 98 boxes and Windows 7 boxes together goes out the Window. A game that was originally run from the DOS command line if I'm not mistaken can't be run from Windows 98SE when Windows 7 is the master server. Yikes! Hmm, I guess I could run 2000 instead even though the computer is only a K6-2 500 and I'd probably have to search for SIS 530 W2K video drivers. Don't have a legal 2nd copy of 2000, but there doesn't seem to be a legal way to solve this. There are a lot of games that aren't DOS games and aren't NT games. Windows 98 in my opinion is a sort of aberration, Microsoft should have skipped Windows 9x in favor of bringing everyone into an NT environment sooner. I'm sure there is a dos driver for my Realtek 8139 10/100 network card. But ipxwrapper is intended for NT and HX probably won't run Warcraft II. I'd love something legal that isn't the full blown Windows 98SE to run games like Warcraft II and Diablo II that are in that transitional period. I just hope that the ReactOS developers get something stable put together soon. I have a Windows XP Home upgrade kit, it is in use though. I'm worried that XP won't even run on this old machine, but I guess stripped down I can get away with it. Sadly, XP phones home so Microsoft will know that I'm running it illegally. What is needed is a protected mode DOS like Windows 98SE, but much lighter, that can run directx 6 or so and do the ipxwrapper trick. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
On 2012-12-20 21:32 (GMT-0800) Michael Robinson composed: I'd probably have to search for SIS 530 W2K video drivers. Asus P5S-B motherboards had the 530 chip on the board. Maybe Asus still has those ancient drivers for download. I have the driver CD for it here somewhere, but it would be older than W2K. If you can't find it let me know. Maybe it has an NT driver that would work. -- The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 00:32:18 -0500, Michael Robinson plu...@robinson-west.com wrote: Windows 98 sort of running on top of a DOS system doesn't work with ipxwrapper-0.4.0. There is an error that iplphapi.dll can't be found or something similar. Why do you need an ipx wrapper on win98? You can install the IPX protocol natively under the network control panel and DOS programs running within Windows will be able to use it. Hmm, I guess I could run 2000 instead even though the computer is only a K6-2 500 and I'd probably have to search for SIS 530 W2K video drivers. If SIS 530 has a VESA 2.0 BIOS you could try the VBEMP universal driver. *snip* I'm sure there is a dos driver for my Realtek 8139 10/100 network card. This is quite likely. RTL8139 has drivers for everything. Even NT 3.51. Even Amiga. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Windows 98SE and ipxwrapper...
Quoting TJ Edmister damag...@hyakushiki.net: On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 00:32:18 -0500, Michael Robinson plu...@robinson-west.com wrote: Windows 98 sort of running on top of a DOS system doesn't work with ipxwrapper-0.4.0. There is an error that iplphapi.dll can't be found or something similar. Why do you need an ipx wrapper on win98? You can install the IPX protocol natively under the network control panel and DOS programs running within Windows will be able to use it. Well, if I use IPX wrapper I'm no longer using standard IPX networking, I am tunneling via UDP. The Windows 98 client understandably can't find an IPX network because strictly speaking there isn't one. This is why you have to use IPX wrapper under Windows XP even though XP has native IPX support. There is really only a problem when Windows 7 is introduced. A better workaround would be an open source IPX/SPX implementation that works on all versions of Windows up to 8. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
