Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Koh Choon Lin]

Hi

On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marco Achury  wrote:
>
> XAppeal is a proprietary X11 server for MS-DOS based on XFree86. The web
> used to be http://www.xtreme.it/pub/xappeal/ but now appear to be death now.

If someone is willing to start a free as in freedom graphical
interface for FreeDOS, I am ready to contribute resources and money to
the project.



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[Freedos-user] Support for 4k byte sectors

[Bertho Grandpied]

Hi FreeDOS users and developers !
This is my first time posting to these lists, I hope I'm not breaking etiquette 
in the act.

My question/request is about accepting larger sector sizes for hard disks 
(whether ATA, USB or otherwise connected). USB disk appliances presenting 4k 
sectors only - no emulated 512 byte sectors - are already on the market and in 
our homes (and contrary to popular belief, that includes disks under the 2 
terabytes "limit"; the one I bought is 1 TB "only" and still 4 kbiyte-sectored).

I don't know whether /internal/ (sata) disks with 4k sectors (no emulation) are 
already on the market or not, but there is little doubt they are coming and 
eventually replacing disks having native or emulated 512 byte sectors 
completely in a not so far future.

Is there active work being done on adapting the kernel structures and buffer 
sizes for the new hardware ? Some timeline ?

I for one am ready to test development kernels against my USB disk appliance (1 
TiB Iomega Prestige).

I have filled an enhancement request with similar subj on Sourceforge, however 
it is not clear whether such requests are actively monitored by the fine 
developers, hence this attempt at posting to your mailing list.

Hope this works out well...

-- 
Czerno


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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[nospam]

Nano-X and NXlib are released using the MPL licence which allows to 
integrate the code into commercial projects. It can also be integrated into 
a GPL project.

e.g. FLTK can run based on Nano-X and NXlib:
http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/wiki/Screenshots

Georg


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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Jim Hall]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Koh Choon Lin <2choon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marco Achury  wrote:
>>
>> XAppeal is a proprietary X11 server for MS-DOS based on XFree86. The web
>> used to be http://www.xtreme.it/pub/xappeal/ but now appear to be death now.
>
> If someone is willing to start a free as in freedom graphical
> interface for FreeDOS, I am ready to contribute resources and money to
> the project.
>
>

I'd love to have you contribute to a GUI project. There have been
several. The one with the longest history is OpenGEM, but the web site
is now idle (http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/). The OpenGEM6 pre-release is
the last we heard of this project, in 2006
(http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/gui/opengem/6/).

Another promising GUI was SEAL, which seems to have also gone idle
long before GEM.

As a result, I kind of pulled back from any particular GUI, and
focused on the command line experience. But I would really like to see
a nice GUI for FreeDOS. An X Windows implementation would be very
interesting, for example.

I encourage you to look around for what's there, and see if you can
move any of them forward. OpenGEM shows a lot of promise, but the
graphics are dated and could use a refresh. Since it's GNU GPL, I
imagine you could borrow from another GPL'd desktop environment, such
as GNOME.


-jh

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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Jim Hall]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 1:21 AM, nospam  wrote:
> You may also be able to use Nano-X / NXlib which I have ported to DOS:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/
>
> The port of the Dillo browser is based on this.
>
> Georg
>

Hi Georg,

I'm very interested in NanoX, and have been watching since I first
heard about it. Very cool stuff!

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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Tony  wrote:
> For those of us that still have a copy in their box, DesqviewX might
> also be an option. I understand that its now considered "abandonware"
> and there is a download site for it, but you will have to Google, as i
> wont post it here, just in case it really isn't legit.
>
> However i don't know how well FreeDOS will play with QEMM. ( i should
> try it.. i miss Quarterdeck :) )
>


I vaguely remember Desqview from the time. It was an expensive
package, and I was only a student so could not afford it. But I know
it was a powerful system.

There's a note on wikipedia about the availability of Desqview. This
is owned by Symantec, although they haven't done anything with it, and
their corporate counsel doesn't seem to respond to requests to clarify
its status. So while it's "abandonware", at least in the US it's not
technically legal to distribute (IANAL) so I'll stay away from it.


-jh

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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Marco Achury  wrote:
> The readme file says that the company name is "xtreme sas", doing a google
> search appear this address and phone number.
>
> XTREME sas
>
>
> Padova Directory
> 95, v. Beato Pellegrino
> Padova, PD
> 35137
> Phone: 049 8718245
>
> See a map:
> http://maps.boomtrek.com/italy/padua/201201915456/xtreme-sas
>
>


Thanks. I did another google based on your info, and found
http://ita.bizdirlib.com/business_directory/Xtreme_s.a.s. as an
interesting site. It shows an email address, which I will try.

Very helpful!

-jh

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[Freedos-user] VirtualBox FreeDOS HowTo

[Ulrich Hansen]

I have started a VirtualBox HowTo in our FreeDOS wiki.
It is a sort of installation walkthrough with many pictures.

It can be found here:

http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/freedos/index.php?title=Installing_FreeDOS_in_VirtualBox

Feel free to take a look. 

Please write if you find something that should be corrected or added. Or add it 
yourself if you like (it is a wiki after all).

regards
Ulrich



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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Marco Achury]

El 10/01/2012 02:51 a.m., nospam escribió:
> You may also be able to use Nano-X / NXlib which I have ported to DOS:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/
>
> The port of the Dillo browser is based on this.
>
> Georg
>
> --
> Write once. Port to many.
> Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create 
> new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the 
> Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
>

Looks like a better option, specially because is a current project and
is free.
I see the download lists and I dont undersand what is that we must to
download.

http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/downloads/list

Is needed to download their djgpp package in order the run the
calculator and other examples?

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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Ralf A. Quint]

At 03:16 PM 1/10/2012, Jim Hall wrote:
>On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 12:17 PM, Koh Choon Lin <2choon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > If someone is willing to start a free as in freedom graphical
> > interface for FreeDOS, I am ready to contribute resources and money to
> > the project.
> >
> >
>
>I'd love to have you contribute to a GUI project. There have been
>several. The one with the longest history is OpenGEM, but the web site
>is now idle (http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/). The OpenGEM6 pre-release is
>the last we heard of this project, in 2006
>(http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/gui/opengem/6/).

That's IMHO the best option, specially as it is "from the ground up" 
DOS based. And the later/last version(s) weren't that bad at all. 
It's really a shame about Shane, what ever caused him to go into hibernation...
There are a few others that have been working on GEM under different 
labels since it was released as Open Source, including some enhanced 
video drivers. Would be nice to see if those and possibly some new 
folks, who can still at least think in the ways old software works, 
could get something going again...

>Another promising GUI was SEAL, which seems to have also gone idle
>long before GEM.

I don't think that SEAL (regardless under which name and incarnation, 
there were several IIRC) ever got to the point that it was in any 
form "usable". Can't call this promising at all. All they got was 
some nice desktop picture, nothing more...

>As a result, I kind of pulled back from any particular GUI, and
>focused on the command line experience. But I would really like to see
>a nice GUI for FreeDOS. An X Windows implementation would be very
>interesting, for example.

The problem with X Windows is that it is not DOS, it is Unix based 
from the very core, with quite some "appetite" for resources. So 
while it is a nice niche usage to be able to use a DOS based PC as an 
X terminal, I don't think that there is much point (beside proof of 
concept) to put much energy in an X server for (Free)DOS. Missing 
multi-tasking and somewhat limited IP networking capabilities put 
IMHO a fairly early limit to these efforts...


>I encourage you to look around for what's there, and see if you can
>move any of them forward. OpenGEM shows a lot of promise, but the
>graphics are dated and could use a refresh. Since it's GNU GPL, I
>imagine you could borrow from another GPL'd desktop environment, such
>as GNOME.

I don't think neither that this is feasible nor that this would make 
too much sense. GNOME (or KDE, Xfce,  for that matter) are all just like X 
Windows from their structure Unix/Linux based. Trying to force that 
on a single tasking DOS, with limited resources probably requires 
more resources/work than trying to somewhat modernize GEM.

Ralf


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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Ralf A. Quint]

At 05:49 PM 1/10/2012, Marco Achury wrote:

>Looks like a better option, specially because is a current project 
>and is free.

... (see my reply to Jim)

>I see the download lists and I dont undersand what is that we must 
>to download.
>
>http://code.google.com/p/nanox-microwindows-nxlib-fltk-for-dos/downloads/list
>
>Is needed to download their djgpp package in order the run the 
>calculator and other examples?

To "run" it, no.
But if you want change/compile it or do anything what else that 
people rave about when referring to FOSS, then the answer is yes. 
You'll need the whole shebang, as this is required to provide all 
those nice *ix tools to produce the running binary...

Ralf 


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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[jhall]

>> I encourage you to look around for what's there, and see if you can
>> move any of them forward. OpenGEM shows a lot of promise, but the
>> graphics are dated and could use a refresh. Since it's GNU GPL, I
>> imagine you could borrow from another GPL'd desktop environment, such
>> as GNOME.
> 
> I don't think neither that this is feasible nor that this would make 
> too much sense. GNOME (or KDE, Xfce,  window manager of the day here> for that matter) are all just like X 
> Windows from their structure Unix/Linux based. Trying to force that 
> on a single tasking DOS, with limited resources probably requires 
> more resources/work than trying to somewhat modernize GEM.
> 

I should have been more clear. I meant to suggest reusing graphics elements 
(icons) from Gnome to refresh the look of OpenGEM. I didn't mean to suggest 
borrowing code from Gnome to update functionality of OpenGEM. As you said, 
these come from totally different architectural backgrounds, so straight-up 
reuse of code is not a good use of time.

I had a conversation along these lines with Shane once, about the graphics, and 
he pointed me to a dev tool in OpenGEM that would convert graphics for use as 
GEM icons. I think it's been there since OpenGEM5.

jh
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Re: [Freedos-user] x windows server for DOS

[Ralf A. Quint]

At 08:39 PM 1/10/2012, jhall wrote:
> >> I encourage you to look around for what's there, and see if you can
> >> move any of them forward. OpenGEM shows a lot of promise, but the
> >> graphics are dated and could use a refresh. Since it's GNU GPL, I
> >> imagine you could borrow from another GPL'd desktop environment, such
> >> as GNOME.
> >
> > I don't think neither that this is feasible nor that this would make
> > too much sense. GNOME (or KDE, Xfce,  > window manager of the day here> for that matter) are all just like X
> > Windows from their structure Unix/Linux based. Trying to force that
> > on a single tasking DOS, with limited resources probably requires
> > more resources/work than trying to somewhat modernize GEM.
> >
>
>I should have been more clear. I meant to suggest reusing graphics 
>elements (icons) from Gnome to refresh the look of OpenGEM. I didn't 
>mean to suggest borrowing code from Gnome to update functionality of 
>OpenGEM. As you said, these come from totally different 
>architectural backgrounds, so straight-up reuse of code is not a 
>good use of time.

Ok, that is a slightly different issue. Though a bit of a chicken and 
egg problem, all those fancy icons, etc won't do you much good if you 
don't have the graphics drivers to display them...

In my personal view, less is sometimes more and I take functionality 
over glitter any day... ;-)
That was also one of the things that prevented me from taking that 
Seal stuff serious, they were more concerned to "borrow" fancy icons 
from Windows XP than actually getting things (application, real ones, 
not just some simply games) working...


>I had a conversation along these lines with Shane once, about the 
>graphics, and he pointed me to a dev tool in OpenGEM that would 
>convert graphics for use as GEM icons. I think it's been there since OpenGEM5.


Do you have any info what happened to Shane/the OpenGEM project, the 
whole "disappearance" happened a bit quick and starring for several 
years now at the site that proclaims "Something exciting is coming 
soon" is a bit of a drag :-( ...

Ralf 


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