Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Nick Thompson]

Thanks, again, Eric.  

 

I will dig into this tomorrow.   

 

Nick  

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:16 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

 

Nick and Steve, hi and thank you,

 

Couple things, and maybe another example following: 





I didn't look hard, but I didn't see an obvious way for this Institute to 
instantiate en-situ groups as I *think* Nick (and many of us?) would like to 
see.  Perhaps this is an example of what I have been ranting on... maybe we 
have to let that go?  It seems hard to consider becoming entirely delocalized.

 

I would say that Ronin agrees with the sense of value, and doesn’t take for 
granted having to give it up.  Their main architecture is the internet 
interface and the legal services of a 501C3 and whatever journal etc. accesses 
they can get.  But they are hosting an increasing number of web-mediated 
seminars, general chat sessions they call “watercooler” chats on the slack 
platform, and in-person “meetups” a few times a year, whenever someone takes 
the initiative to organize one somewhere.  Many of those who are within 
geographical proximity also have the option for more regular contacts. It is a 
light level of in-person access, stabilized by the low cost and general-purpose 
internet platform, rather than having the in-person mode be the major center of 
stabilization.

 

Although, per-exchange, an internet-mediated interaction won’t have much depth, 
they are aiming for regularity and predictability as a way to engender 
longer-term relations, and also to mediate active scientific collaborations, so 
that people come to get a deeper understanding of each other’s minds.

I assume your (Nick's) reference to journal access is to the  
 http://unpaywall.org/ links?  LANL (Paul Ginsparg) 
pioneered the use of WWW for open access to journal articles via the  
 xxx.lanl.gov "physics preprint" server (with an FTP and 
Gopher server predating that by a couple of years).   I don't know the full 
implication or utility of the subsequent   arXiv.org system 
but in principle it feels like the "perfect" workaround for the Journal system. 
I think Grigori Perleman's example (publishing two deeply pivotal papers in 
mathematics *without* a peer-review journal/process) is significant.  I'm 
surprised it didn't revolutionize academia and publication more than it did.  
Is it inertia or something more fundamental?   

I think not only inertia.  The idea that you can find, through ad hoc networks, 
and fully understand by your own agency, everything you should want to work 
with or use, to my mind vastly truncates the set of possibilities for work.  
For every step you extend your scope into areas you don’t understand, you add 
fragility and create problems of validation of qualitatively new types, but you 
open combinatorial possibilities for guessing and discovery that do not exist 
at smaller scales.  

 

The new qualitative problems turn (in my view) fundamentally on the limits of 
human time, attention, knowledge, etc.  This is why a library is not the same 
as a mere warehouse full of books, a (real) librarian is not merely a person 
tasked with keeping others quiet, etc.  Search, sorting, classification, 
vetting and gatekeeping, are fundamental services.  Each of them has 
fragilities and each of them is indispensable to all but the most localized 
tasks.  There are failure modes in all of these, which blamers love to blame, 
but I don’t think those invalidate the concepts; they dictate the problems that 
need work and insights.  Since my earliest encounter with “web of trust” 
cryptographic ideas, I have felt that the interlinked concepts of identity and 
reputation are vastly richer than these engineering inventions suggest, and it 
would be great to get more conceptual clarity about their nature.  I have taken 
some tilts at that problem over 20 years, but never produced anything of any 
worth.  It does seem that the social disruption and AI innovations are bringing 
that discussion to life now in a big way, and I can imagine there will be 
interesting concepts turned up by it.

 

I feel like this mismatch between conceptually simple technical problems, and 
conceptually deep and difficult social system problems, arises for many topics 
that are of interest to this list.  We have seen articles in which people take 
polarized positions on Bitcoin as being either a new paradigm for money or 
nearly a scam.  I don’t see it as either.  It is a cryptographic solution to a 
specific problem of achieving a certain property in an 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[David Eric Smith]

Nick and Steve, hi and thank you,

Couple things, and maybe another example following: 

> I didn't look hard, but I didn't see an obvious way for this Institute to 
> instantiate en-situ groups as I *think* Nick (and many of us?) would like to 
> see.  Perhaps this is an example of what I have been ranting on... maybe we 
> have to let that go?  It seems hard to consider becoming entirely delocalized.

I would say that Ronin agrees with the sense of value, and doesn’t take for 
granted having to give it up.  Their main architecture is the internet 
interface and the legal services of a 501C3 and whatever journal etc. accesses 
they can get.  But they are hosting an increasing number of web-mediated 
seminars, general chat sessions they call “watercooler” chats on the slack 
platform, and in-person “meetups” a few times a year, whenever someone takes 
the initiative to organize one somewhere.  Many of those who are within 
geographical proximity also have the option for more regular contacts. It is a 
light level of in-person access, stabilized by the low cost and general-purpose 
internet platform, rather than having the in-person mode be the major center of 
stabilization.

Although, per-exchange, an internet-mediated interaction won’t have much depth, 
they are aiming for regularity and predictability as a way to engender 
longer-term relations, and also to mediate active scientific collaborations, so 
that people come to get a deeper understanding of each other’s minds.
> I assume your (Nick's) reference to journal access is to the 
> http://unpaywall.org/  links?  LANL (Paul Ginsparg) 
> pioneered the use of WWW for open access to journal articles via the 
> xxx.lanl.gov  "physics preprint" server (with an FTP 
> and Gopher server predating that by a couple of years).   I don't know the 
> full implication or utility of the subsequent arXiv.org  
> system but in principle it feels like the "perfect" workaround for the 
> Journal system. I think Grigori Perleman's example (publishing two deeply 
> pivotal papers in mathematics *without* a peer-review journal/process) is 
> significant.  I'm surprised it didn't revolutionize academia and publication 
> more than it did.  Is it inertia or something more fundamental?   
> 
I think not only inertia.  The idea that you can find, through ad hoc networks, 
and fully understand by your own agency, everything you should want to work 
with or use, to my mind vastly truncates the set of possibilities for work.  
For every step you extend your scope into areas you don’t understand, you add 
fragility and create problems of validation of qualitatively new types, but you 
open combinatorial possibilities for guessing and discovery that do not exist 
at smaller scales.  

The new qualitative problems turn (in my view) fundamentally on the limits of 
human time, attention, knowledge, etc.  This is why a library is not the same 
as a mere warehouse full of books, a (real) librarian is not merely a person 
tasked with keeping others quiet, etc.  Search, sorting, classification, 
vetting and gatekeeping, are fundamental services.  Each of them has 
fragilities and each of them is indispensable to all but the most localized 
tasks.  There are failure modes in all of these, which blamers love to blame, 
but I don’t think those invalidate the concepts; they dictate the problems that 
need work and insights.  Since my earliest encounter with “web of trust” 
cryptographic ideas, I have felt that the interlinked concepts of identity and 
reputation are vastly richer than these engineering inventions suggest, and it 
would be great to get more conceptual clarity about their nature.  I have taken 
some tilts at that problem over 20 years, but never produced anything of any 
worth.  It does seem that the social disruption and AI innovations are bringing 
that discussion to life now in a big way, and I can imagine there will be 
interesting concepts turned up by it.

I feel like this mismatch between conceptually simple technical problems, and 
conceptually deep and difficult social system problems, arises for many topics 
that are of interest to this list.  We have seen articles in which people take 
polarized positions on Bitcoin as being either a new paradigm for money or 
nearly a scam.  I don’t see it as either.  It is a cryptographic solution to a 
specific problem of achieving a certain property in an information system that 
was once sought in material systems: asymmetric ease of verifiability with 
difficulty of counterfeiting, and having a predictable supply.  But anybody who 
is serious about what money is would (should, IMO) say that those technical 
properties are no more the essence of money than the physical properties of Au 
are the essence of money.  There are cognitive, social, and political 
foundations in real money and credit systems, which employ material or 
informational properties as a kind 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Steven A Smith]

Eric-

Thanks for the throwdown on this one.   I was also not aware of this
effort specifically but it underscores the point I was (still probably
am) so poorly failing to make.  There is a plenitude of new modes of
interaction, research, and scholarship emerging (primarily) because of
increased access to global communication (including travel).   TED talks
and Kahn Academy and MOOCs galore, for example.  Of course none of this
replaces in-person, visceral, face-to-face interaction, nor the unique
experiences that *place* offers to shape the arc of the discussion, the
collaboration, the perspective.  

I didn't look hard, but I didn't see an obvious way for this Institute
to instantiate en-situ groups as I *think* Nick (and many of us?) would
like to see.  Perhaps this is an example of what I have been ranting
on... maybe we have to let that go?  It seems hard to consider becoming
entirely delocalized.

Specific to the Ronin Institute, I applaud their somewhat
anti-establishmentarian rhetoric, focused unsurprisingly by the idea of
the Japanese fuedal period Ronin... a trained/practiced Samurai without
a master.   At SFx, we talked more than a little about the
Master/Journeyman/Apprentice roles and the clear value of the
traditional goals of the Journeyman... as we talked about it I think, a
"Journeyman" was required to "take his show on the road" for a number of
years... to go forth with virtually no resources... and not allowed to
remain "close to home", requiring him (or her one would wish) to expand
one's experiences, to avoid "academic inbreeding" as it were, to make
new connections, to cross fertilize, to interbreed, etc.   All this a
pre-requisite to becoming a master.  Not the same as a Ronin, of course,
but sharing the ideal of being "a wanderer". 

LANL's extensive technical library *used to* offer as a perq to the
public, full access to their (unclassified) stacks as well as their
online access (in place) to anyone brave (or dedicated) enough do drive
up there and go into their facility and ask for access.  It may still be
the case, but with Bechtel in charge, maybe not so much?  When I let my
own "visiting scientist" role lapse at LANL, implicit access to
(virtually?) any journal was the one thing I suspected I was going to
miss.   For those who have never had much if any institutional
affiliation, what might seem like a fundamental "right" to those with
the access that comes with an institutional "master" kinda looks like a
dirty trick to the rest of us.  

I assume your (Nick's) reference to journal access is to the
http://unpaywall.org/ links?  LANL (Paul Ginsparg) pioneered the use of
WWW for open access to journal articles via the xxx.lanl.gov "physics
preprint" server (with an FTP and Gopher server predating that by a
couple of years).   I don't know the full implication or utility of the
subsequent arXiv.org system but in principle it feels like the "perfect"
workaround for the Journal system. I think Grigori Perleman's example
(publishing two deeply pivotal papers in mathematics *without* a
peer-review journal/process) is significant.  I'm surprised it didn't
revolutionize academia and publication more than it did.  Is it inertia
or something more fundamental?  

I sometimes believe that fundamental change in human institutions (and
experience) is roughly bound to the scale of a generation... how many
paradigms can a single generation shift through?   What is the current
fundamental time-scale of techno-social change in our culture today?  Is
the disruption in our culture somehow part of an (important) annealing
process?   

mumble,

  - Steve


On 1/6/18 3:00 PM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
> No, Eric, I did NOT know about this.  My ignorance is always the best
> default assumption. Now  I have spent ten minutes noodling around on
> the site and it is very impressive.  I was particularly moved by their
> page on getting access to journals, etc.    Thank you V E R Y  much.
>
>  
>
> Nick  
>
>  
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> 
>
>  
>
> *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> Eric Smith
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 06, 2018 2:18 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe
>
>  
>
> Hi you guys,
>
>  
>
> You are already familiar with this, right?
>
>  
>
> http://ronininstitute.org/
>
>  
>
> I understand it as trying to solve a concrete and particular problem
> that lives within the overlaps of both Steve’s and Nick’s points (as I
> read the two).  In gig humanity, everything can be used more
> efficiently in the short term, at the price that there is no
> protection for anything from being carved up and sold off for the
> shortest-term profit.  To make progress, if one does not have a
> 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Nick Thompson]

No, Eric, I did NOT know about this.  My ignorance is always the best default 
assumption. Now  I have spent ten minutes noodling around on the site and it is 
very impressive.  I was particularly moved by their page on getting access to 
journals, etc.Thank you V E R Y  much. 

 

Nick  

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 2:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

 

Hi you guys,

 

You are already familiar with this, right?

 

http://ronininstitute.org/

 

I understand it as trying to solve a concrete and particular problem that lives 
within the overlaps of both Steve’s and Nick’s points (as I read the two).  In 
gig humanity, everything can be used more efficiently in the short term, at the 
price that there is no protection for anything from being carved up and sold 
off for the shortest-term profit.  To make progress, if one does not have a 
strategy for overcoming that, then one must acknowledge its reality and impact, 
and figure out how to deal with them.  On the other hand, there are things that 
a structured community can make possible which would be unreachable if each 
individual had to re-discover and re-implement them on his own, and there are 
critical mass effects for which services can be offered.

 

All best,

 

Eric

 

 





On Jan 7, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Steven A Smith  > wrote:

 

Nick -

I did not mean the term oldSkool to be perjorative as such, just acknowledging 
that the world keeps precessing around a complex (nonlinear) sociodynamic axis, 
calling for new and different variants of old things again and again.   The 
coffee house of 17c London was intended as an example of how an (somewhat) 
unprecedented thing emerged "out of nowhere".  The linked article refers to the 
differences between a coffee house and a public house of that era.  Both 
excluded women (by the way).

Coffee houses caught on very quickly, so by 1663 there were more than 83 coffee 
houses in London. By the beginning of the eighteenth century there were as many 
as five or six hundred.2 The Prussian nobleman Baron Charles Louis von 
Pollnitz, who visited London in 1728, described them as one of the great 
pleasures of the city. He describes how it is “a Sort of Rule with the English, 
to go once a Day at least” to coffee-houses “where they talk of Business and 
News, read the Papers, and often look at one another.” Some very famous 
companies even started as coffee houses. Lloyds of London, an insurance 
brokerage company, began as Edward Lloyd’s coffee house on Tower Street around 
1688.

...

Some men spent so much time there that their mail was delivered directly to the 
coffee house! An interesting fact is that almost every coffee house allowed 
only male patrons, women being relegated to the home or elsewhere for coffee. 
Not allowing women into these coffee houses did cause a few problems, which 
were outlined in the “Women’s Petition Against Coffee” published in 1674. 
Really a mock petition, but rumors and claims against coffee drinking could 
have been taken serious whether or not they were true. And as stated in the 
previous quote, they charged only a penny for a cup of black coffee! This gave 
rise to their nickname, “Penny Universities.”

...

Soon there emerged a distinct difference between the pub and the coffee house, 
“Rumors of the health benefits of coffee were abundant, and coffee-houses 
encouraged sobriety, rational thought, and articulate political discussion, 
whereas taverns merely provided a haven for irreverence and intoxication.”  
This wasn’t a place to escape the world and dull the senses, but rather a place 
to debate current events and create new ideas for how life should be. Until 
this time there did not exist a forum for the merchant or trading class to have 
such discussions.

Yes, my Taoist perspective on this is not unlike Economic's "efficient market 
hypothesis" in which suggests that if there were a true need, a true 
opportunity, it would be filled already.   I know this sounds terribly 
fatalistic and even pessimistic but also points to our looking around (as you 
have and are and do) at the plethora of unique opportunities that Santa Fe 
already has/enjoys/provides in this regard.   Of course, YOU (and the rest of 
us) are part of the ecology that co-creates said milieu and if there is to be a 
"City University of Santa Fe" to add to the mix, then this is an obvious place 
for it to fester into fruition.   

My (intended to be gentle) chiding about oldSkool is the (partial) implication 
that what is needed is to return to something some (or many) 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[David Eric Smith]

Hi you guys,

You are already familiar with this, right?

http://ronininstitute.org/ 

I understand it as trying to solve a concrete and particular problem that lives 
within the overlaps of both Steve’s and Nick’s points (as I read the two).  In 
gig humanity, everything can be used more efficiently in the short term, at the 
price that there is no protection for anything from being carved up and sold 
off for the shortest-term profit.  To make progress, if one does not have a 
strategy for overcoming that, then one must acknowledge its reality and impact, 
and figure out how to deal with them.  On the other hand, there are things that 
a structured community can make possible which would be unreachable if each 
individual had to re-discover and re-implement them on his own, and there are 
critical mass effects for which services can be offered.

All best,

Eric



> On Jan 7, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Steven A Smith  wrote:
> 
> Nick -
> 
> I did not mean the term oldSkool to be perjorative as such, just 
> acknowledging that the world keeps precessing around a complex (nonlinear) 
> sociodynamic axis, calling for new and different variants of old things again 
> and again.   The coffee house of 17c London was intended as an example of how 
> an (somewhat) unprecedented thing emerged "out of nowhere".  The linked 
> article refers to the differences between a coffee house and a public house 
> of that era.  Both excluded women (by the way).
> 
> Coffee houses caught on very quickly, so by 1663 there were more than 83 
> coffee houses in London. By the beginning of the eighteenth century there 
> were as many as five or six hundred.2 The Prussian nobleman Baron Charles 
> Louis von Pollnitz, who visited London in 1728, described them as one of the 
> great pleasures of the city. He describes how it is “a Sort of Rule with the 
> English, to go once a Day at least” to coffee-houses “where they talk of 
> Business and News, read the Papers, and often look at one another.” Some very 
> famous companies even started as coffee houses. Lloyds of London, an 
> insurance brokerage company, began as Edward Lloyd’s coffee house on Tower 
> Street around 1688.
> 
> ...
> 
> Some men spent so much time there that their mail was delivered directly to 
> the coffee house! An interesting fact is that almost every coffee house 
> allowed only male patrons, women being relegated to the home or elsewhere for 
> coffee. Not allowing women into these coffee houses did cause a few problems, 
> which were outlined in the “Women’s Petition Against Coffee” published in 
> 1674. Really a mock petition, but rumors and claims against coffee drinking 
> could have been taken serious whether or not they were true. And as stated in 
> the previous quote, they charged only a penny for a cup of black coffee! This 
> gave rise to their nickname, “Penny Universities.”
> 
> ...
> 
> Soon there emerged a distinct difference between the pub and the coffee 
> house, “Rumors of the health benefits of coffee were abundant, and 
> coffee-houses encouraged sobriety, rational thought, and articulate political 
> discussion, whereas taverns merely provided a haven for irreverence and 
> intoxication.”  This wasn’t a place to escape the world and dull the senses, 
> but rather a place to debate current events and create new ideas for how life 
> should be. Until this time there did not exist a forum for the merchant or 
> trading class to have such discussions.
> 
> Yes, my Taoist perspective on this is not unlike Economic's "efficient market 
> hypothesis" in which suggests that if there were a true need, a true 
> opportunity, it would be filled already.   I know this sounds terribly 
> fatalistic and even pessimistic but also points to our looking around (as you 
> have and are and do) at the plethora of unique opportunities that Santa Fe 
> already has/enjoys/provides in this regard.   Of course, YOU (and the rest of 
> us) are part of the ecology that co-creates said milieu and if there is to be 
> a "City University of Santa Fe" to add to the mix, then this is an obvious 
> place for it to fester into fruition.   
> 
> My (intended to be gentle) chiding about oldSkool is the (partial) 
> implication that what is needed is to return to something some (or many) of 
> us knew from the past... that there once was something (an institutional 
> paradigm, a mold, a pattern) which has been broken and needs to be 
> reconstituted, rather than (I would suggest), the more critical essences 
> recognized in their distillate form and recombined in a (possibly) new way.
> 
> Your creating the non-profit vehicle and obtaining a domain name, etc.  is 
> suggestive of the classic "stone" or "nail" soup paradigm which I very much 
> approve of.  If I had me an onion or a turnip, I would in fact scrub the dirt 
> from it, peel it gently and toss it in the pot labeled "CUSF".   The 
> resulting stew may very well not be at 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Nick Thompson]

Absolutely

 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Tom Johnson
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:47 PM
To: Friam@redfish. com 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

 

Don't forget SAR and Renesan in the list of community "higher education" 
resources.

 

TJ

 

On Jan 6, 2018 2:49 PM, "Steven A Smith"  > wrote:

Nick -

My sympathies are with you in aching to see the potential of such a rich
milieu as is implied by this city/region (more) fulfilled
(elaborated?).   At the same time, my inner Taoist believes it is
"precisely as it should be". 

Your appeal reminded me of my reading on the origin of "Coffee Houses"
in England in the 17th century and their role as "Penny Universities".  
Of course, that is roughly how THIS forum began and continues as "the
Mother Church", holding services weekly.  

It was this very vision which caused/allowed me to "stay the course"
with the SF Complex from beginning to (beyond the) end, in spite of
innumerable tangents and setbacks.

I fear that the image of a "University" in any sense other than the
above "Penny University" might be ultimately too nostalgic and oldSkool
for our "modern times".  The likes of SFx or even MeowWolf may be closer
to what is likely (or needed?) today.   The sum of
SFAI/CCA/SFI/SITE/Lannan/??? sponsored talks and exhibitions is a rich
tapestry which perhaps makes up for the lack of something more focused,
with it's own (adobe) bricks and (mud) mortar?

I don't offer this as a wet blanket, but maybe more an urging to
(continue to) think broadly and maybe even a bit inside-out.  

The following is a reasonable (contemporary) description of the "Coffee
House" phenomenon of the 17th/18th century which itself had a limited
lifespan...

https://ineedcoffee.com/the-coffee-house-a-history/

- Steve

On 1/6/18 12:03 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Hi Glen and other interested parties,
>
> I went by the Secretary of State's office on Thursday and we found The City 
> University of Santa Fe without difficulty and all I have to do is pay past 
> filing fees to get myself back in good standing with the State of New Mexico. 
>  When you search it, be sure to start with leading "The" .  I tried to find 
> my old web page on the way back machine and I think I found some reference to 
> it, but not the page itself.  The url was something like www.cusf.org 
>  . If anybody finds it, save it for me, would you.  I 
> quite liked it.  I mean for citizen work.
>
> Some of you seem to raise the question where do we go from here.  I had 
> thought, since I am getting so friggin old, that I would just shut it down.  
> The only things it has going for it are the name and the fact that Santa Fe 
> is in many ways a university town without a university.  It has all these 
> institutions doing quasi graduate work, and a gazillion retired PhD's doing 
> various proects, and even a couple of advanced degree granting places.  But 
> no desire to coalesce and cooperate, that I could detect.  I am not much of a 
> culture vulture, but on a whim, went out to hear a TGIF concert of Schubert 
> Leider in the Presbyterian church, this evening .  There were something like 
> 500 people there.  Not sure you could get a crowd like that on a cold 
> winter's night to hear a local singer in Berkeley.  Santa Fe is an 
> extraordinary town.  It deserves a University.
>
> At today's meeting of the mother church I was banging on about the battering 
> that the Liberal Arts ideal has received during my lifetime and my blief that 
> we need to restore the country's faith in LEARNING.I believe with all my 
> heart that good things happen when you get smart diverse people together and 
> make them think and argue about stuff.  I also thing there are a tremendous 
> amount of young people in Santa Fe, working as baristas, and programmers, and 
> piano tuners who by their devotion to the life of the mind deserve to pursue 
> their interests.
>
> Speaking of battering, it's my understanding that the small liberal arts 
> colleges are in for a terrible few years under the new tax bill and the 
> Relatively Wealthy People of Santa Fe may need to be thinking about how to 
> defend St. Johns, not to mention what every might be left of the poor old 
> College of Santa Fe.
>
> Take care,
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com 
>  ] On Behalf Of ? u???
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 8:53 AM
> To: FriAM 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Steven A Smith]

Nick -

I did not mean the term oldSkool to be perjorative as such, just
acknowledging that the world keeps precessing around a complex
(nonlinear) sociodynamic axis, calling for new and different variants of
old things again and again.   The coffee house of 17c London was
intended as an example of how an (somewhat) unprecedented thing emerged
"out of nowhere".  The linked article refers to the differences between
a coffee house and a public house of that era.  Both excluded women (by
the way).

/Coffee houses caught on very quickly, so by 1663 there were more
than 83 coffee houses in London. By the beginning of the eighteenth
century there were as many as five or six hundred.2 The Prussian
nobleman Baron Charles Louis von Pollnitz, who visited London in
1728, described them as one of the great pleasures of the city. He
describes how it is “a Sort of Rule with the English, to go once a
Day at least” to coffee-houses “where they talk of Business and
News, read the Papers, and often look at one another.” Some very
famous companies even started as coffee houses. Lloyds of London, an
insurance brokerage company, began as Edward Lloyd’s coffee house on
Tower Street around 1688./

/.../

/Some men spent so much time there that their mail was delivered
directly to the coffee house! An interesting fact is that almost
every coffee house allowed only male patrons, women being relegated
to the home or elsewhere for coffee. Not allowing women into these
coffee houses did cause a few problems, which were outlined in the
“Women’s Petition Against Coffee” published in 1674. Really a mock
petition, but rumors and claims against coffee drinking could have
been taken serious whether or not they were true. And as stated in
the previous quote, they charged only a penny for a cup of black
coffee! This gave rise to their nickname, “Penny Universities.”/

/.../

/Soon there emerged a distinct difference between the pub and the
coffee house, “Rumors of the health benefits of coffee were
abundant, and coffee-houses encouraged sobriety, rational thought,
and articulate political discussion, whereas taverns merely provided
a haven for irreverence and intoxication.”  This wasn’t a place to
escape the world and dull the senses, but rather a place to debate
current events and create new ideas for how life should be. Until
this time there did not exist a forum for the merchant or trading
class to have such discussions./

Yes, my Taoist perspective on this is not unlike Economic's "efficient
market hypothesis" in which suggests that if there were a true need, a
true opportunity, it would be filled already.   I know this sounds
terribly fatalistic and even pessimistic but also points to our looking
around (as you have and are and do) at the plethora of unique
opportunities that Santa Fe already has/enjoys/provides in this
regard.   Of course, YOU (and the rest of us) are part of the ecology
that co-creates said milieu and if there is to be a "City University of
Santa Fe" to add to the mix, then this is an obvious place for it to
fester into fruition.  

My (intended to be gentle) chiding about oldSkool is the (partial)
implication that what is needed is to return to something some (or many)
of us knew from the past... that there once was something (an
institutional paradigm, a mold, a pattern) which has been broken and
needs to be reconstituted, rather than (I would suggest), the more
critical essences recognized in their distillate form and recombined in
a (possibly) new way.

Your creating the non-profit vehicle and obtaining a domain name, etc. 
is suggestive of the classic "stone" or "nail" soup paradigm which I
very much approve of.  If I had me an onion or a turnip, I would in fact
scrub the dirt from it, peel it gently and toss it in the pot labeled
"CUSF".   The resulting stew may very well not be at all what you
intended, or it may match it very well.  Anyone have a pinch of salt? 
Some Green Chile?  A not-too-long-dead Rabbit?

On the coming crisis of "gainful underemployment", I think it is an
important, even critical thing to consider.   For those who have fully
or partially retired, or have endured periods of "gainful
underemployment" (like the post Bios implosion around the time of the
larger dot.com bomb),  I think we are hyper aware of the value of
"having good work", even if the economy has shifted out from under us to
a situation where there is less and less *need* to work, either in terms
of gross domestic productivity or in terms of providing sustenance for
oneself and one's people.  

The powers that be tend toward offering "bread and circuses" (Netflix
and Twitter?) on one end, and "mind-numbing poverty" on the other.   I
think it is meritable to work toward finding a way to keep the populace
engaged and motivated in more ahem... engaged and motivating pursuits.  

- Steve



On 1/6/18 1:25 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Nick Thompson]

Steve, 

Ok.  Let it be that the notion of the "academy", the quiet place, where a 
specialized group of people, designated by society, get together to think, is 
"old skool". But, let it be the case, that those same people are being forced 
to waste their time doing other things ... like brewing coffee, doing body work 
for people, doing fiddly computing jobs for other people, etc., etc.  Is that 
not a waste, of sorts?  How can we organize things so that these people can do 
what they are best at and love?  How can restore general society's respect for 
that sort of activity ... for "noodling."  How are we going to head off the 
jobs crisis that is upon us that happens when automation finally decouples 
"having a job" from "being a useful person".Surely your Taotic position is 
not, "Whatever is is for the best" or even "Que sera sera?"  Or is it?

Nick 

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2018 12:19 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

Nick -

My sympathies are with you in aching to see the potential of such a rich milieu 
as is implied by this city/region (more) fulfilled (elaborated?).   At the same 
time, my inner Taoist believes it is "precisely as it should be". 

Your appeal reminded me of my reading on the origin of "Coffee Houses"
in England in the 17th century and their role as "Penny Universities". Of 
course, that is roughly how THIS forum began and continues as "the Mother 
Church", holding services weekly.  

It was this very vision which caused/allowed me to "stay the course"
with the SF Complex from beginning to (beyond the) end, in spite of innumerable 
tangents and setbacks.

I fear that the image of a "University" in any sense other than the above 
"Penny University" might be ultimately too nostalgic and oldSkool for our 
"modern times".  The likes of SFx or even MeowWolf may be closer to what is 
likely (or needed?) today.   The sum of SFAI/CCA/SFI/SITE/Lannan/??? sponsored 
talks and exhibitions is a rich tapestry which perhaps makes up for the lack of 
something more focused, with it's own (adobe) bricks and (mud) mortar?

I don't offer this as a wet blanket, but maybe more an urging to (continue to) 
think broadly and maybe even a bit inside-out.  

The following is a reasonable (contemporary) description of the "Coffee House" 
phenomenon of the 17th/18th century which itself had a limited lifespan...

https://ineedcoffee.com/the-coffee-house-a-history/

- Steve

On 1/6/18 12:03 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Hi Glen and other interested parties,
>
> I went by the Secretary of State's office on Thursday and we found The City 
> University of Santa Fe without difficulty and all I have to do is pay past 
> filing fees to get myself back in good standing with the State of New Mexico. 
>  When you search it, be sure to start with leading "The" .  I tried to find 
> my old web page on the way back machine and I think I found some reference to 
> it, but not the page itself.  The url was something like www.cusf.org. If 
> anybody finds it, save it for me, would you.  I quite liked it.  I mean for 
> citizen work. 
>
> Some of you seem to raise the question where do we go from here.  I had 
> thought, since I am getting so friggin old, that I would just shut it down.  
> The only things it has going for it are the name and the fact that Santa Fe 
> is in many ways a university town without a university.  It has all these 
> institutions doing quasi graduate work, and a gazillion retired PhD's doing 
> various proects, and even a couple of advanced degree granting places.  But 
> no desire to coalesce and cooperate, that I could detect.  I am not much of a 
> culture vulture, but on a whim, went out to hear a TGIF concert of Schubert 
> Leider in the Presbyterian church, this evening .  There were something like 
> 500 people there.  Not sure you could get a crowd like that on a cold 
> winter's night to hear a local singer in Berkeley.  Santa Fe is an 
> extraordinary town.  It deserves a University.  
>
> At today's meeting of the mother church I was banging on about the battering 
> that the Liberal Arts ideal has received during my lifetime and my blief that 
> we need to restore the country's faith in LEARNING.I believe with all my 
> heart that good things happen when you get smart diverse people together and 
> make them think and argue about stuff.  I also thing there are a tremendous 
> amount of young people in Santa Fe, working as baristas, and programmers, and 
> piano tuners who by their devotion to the life of the mind deserve to pursue 
> their interests.  
>
> Speaking of battering, it's my understanding that the small liberal arts 
> colleges 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Tom Johnson]

Don't forget SAR and Renesan in the list of community "higher education"
resources.

TJ

On Jan 6, 2018 2:49 PM, "Steven A Smith"  wrote:

> Nick -
>
> My sympathies are with you in aching to see the potential of such a rich
> milieu as is implied by this city/region (more) fulfilled
> (elaborated?).   At the same time, my inner Taoist believes it is
> "precisely as it should be".
>
> Your appeal reminded me of my reading on the origin of "Coffee Houses"
> in England in the 17th century and their role as "Penny Universities".
> Of course, that is roughly how THIS forum began and continues as "the
> Mother Church", holding services weekly.
>
> It was this very vision which caused/allowed me to "stay the course"
> with the SF Complex from beginning to (beyond the) end, in spite of
> innumerable tangents and setbacks.
>
> I fear that the image of a "University" in any sense other than the
> above "Penny University" might be ultimately too nostalgic and oldSkool
> for our "modern times".  The likes of SFx or even MeowWolf may be closer
> to what is likely (or needed?) today.   The sum of
> SFAI/CCA/SFI/SITE/Lannan/??? sponsored talks and exhibitions is a rich
> tapestry which perhaps makes up for the lack of something more focused,
> with it's own (adobe) bricks and (mud) mortar?
>
> I don't offer this as a wet blanket, but maybe more an urging to
> (continue to) think broadly and maybe even a bit inside-out.
>
> The following is a reasonable (contemporary) description of the "Coffee
> House" phenomenon of the 17th/18th century which itself had a limited
> lifespan...
>
> https://ineedcoffee.com/the-coffee-house-a-history/
>
> - Steve
>
> On 1/6/18 12:03 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> > Hi Glen and other interested parties,
> >
> > I went by the Secretary of State's office on Thursday and we found The
> City University of Santa Fe without difficulty and all I have to do is pay
> past filing fees to get myself back in good standing with the State of New
> Mexico.  When you search it, be sure to start with leading "The" .  I tried
> to find my old web page on the way back machine and I think I found some
> reference to it, but not the page itself.  The url was something like
> www.cusf.org. If anybody finds it, save it for me, would you.  I quite
> liked it.  I mean for citizen work.
> >
> > Some of you seem to raise the question where do we go from here.  I had
> thought, since I am getting so friggin old, that I would just shut it
> down.  The only things it has going for it are the name and the fact that
> Santa Fe is in many ways a university town without a university.  It has
> all these institutions doing quasi graduate work, and a gazillion retired
> PhD's doing various proects, and even a couple of advanced degree granting
> places.  But no desire to coalesce and cooperate, that I could detect.  I
> am not much of a culture vulture, but on a whim, went out to hear a TGIF
> concert of Schubert Leider in the Presbyterian church, this evening .
> There were something like 500 people there.  Not sure you could get a crowd
> like that on a cold winter's night to hear a local singer in Berkeley.
> Santa Fe is an extraordinary town.  It deserves a University.
> >
> > At today's meeting of the mother church I was banging on about the
> battering that the Liberal Arts ideal has received during my lifetime and
> my blief that we need to restore the country's faith in LEARNING.I
> believe with all my heart that good things happen when you get smart
> diverse people together and make them think and argue about stuff.  I also
> thing there are a tremendous amount of young people in Santa Fe, working as
> baristas, and programmers, and piano tuners who by their devotion to the
> life of the mind deserve to pursue their interests.
> >
> > Speaking of battering, it's my understanding that the small liberal arts
> colleges are in for a terrible few years under the new tax bill and the
> Relatively Wealthy People of Santa Fe may need to be thinking about how to
> defend St. Johns, not to mention what every might be left of the poor old
> College of Santa Fe.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Nick
> >
> > Nicholas S. Thompson
> > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> > Clark University
> > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ? u???
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 8:53 AM
> > To: FriAM 
> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe
> >
> > I don't know how long they keep their records.  But there's no
> corporation with that name in the online database:
> >
> >   https://portal.sos.state.nm.us/BFS/online/CorporationBusinessSearch
> >
> > There are some non-profits with a Nick Thompson as an officer.  But that
> Nick seems to live in Albuquerque.
> >
> > On 01/05/2018 07:35 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 4, 2018 11:05 PM, "Nick Thompson" <
> 

Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe

[Steven A Smith]

Nick -

My sympathies are with you in aching to see the potential of such a rich
milieu as is implied by this city/region (more) fulfilled
(elaborated?).   At the same time, my inner Taoist believes it is
"precisely as it should be". 

Your appeal reminded me of my reading on the origin of "Coffee Houses"
in England in the 17th century and their role as "Penny Universities".  
Of course, that is roughly how THIS forum began and continues as "the
Mother Church", holding services weekly.  

It was this very vision which caused/allowed me to "stay the course"
with the SF Complex from beginning to (beyond the) end, in spite of
innumerable tangents and setbacks.

I fear that the image of a "University" in any sense other than the
above "Penny University" might be ultimately too nostalgic and oldSkool
for our "modern times".  The likes of SFx or even MeowWolf may be closer
to what is likely (or needed?) today.   The sum of
SFAI/CCA/SFI/SITE/Lannan/??? sponsored talks and exhibitions is a rich
tapestry which perhaps makes up for the lack of something more focused,
with it's own (adobe) bricks and (mud) mortar?

I don't offer this as a wet blanket, but maybe more an urging to
(continue to) think broadly and maybe even a bit inside-out.  

The following is a reasonable (contemporary) description of the "Coffee
House" phenomenon of the 17th/18th century which itself had a limited
lifespan...

    https://ineedcoffee.com/the-coffee-house-a-history/

- Steve

On 1/6/18 12:03 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
> Hi Glen and other interested parties, 
>
> I went by the Secretary of State's office on Thursday and we found The City 
> University of Santa Fe without difficulty and all I have to do is pay past 
> filing fees to get myself back in good standing with the State of New Mexico. 
>  When you search it, be sure to start with leading "The" .  I tried to find 
> my old web page on the way back machine and I think I found some reference to 
> it, but not the page itself.  The url was something like www.cusf.org. If 
> anybody finds it, save it for me, would you.  I quite liked it.  I mean for 
> citizen work. 
>
> Some of you seem to raise the question where do we go from here.  I had 
> thought, since I am getting so friggin old, that I would just shut it down.  
> The only things it has going for it are the name and the fact that Santa Fe 
> is in many ways a university town without a university.  It has all these 
> institutions doing quasi graduate work, and a gazillion retired PhD's doing 
> various proects, and even a couple of advanced degree granting places.  But 
> no desire to coalesce and cooperate, that I could detect.  I am not much of a 
> culture vulture, but on a whim, went out to hear a TGIF concert of Schubert 
> Leider in the Presbyterian church, this evening .  There were something like 
> 500 people there.  Not sure you could get a crowd like that on a cold 
> winter's night to hear a local singer in Berkeley.  Santa Fe is an 
> extraordinary town.  It deserves a University.  
>
> At today's meeting of the mother church I was banging on about the battering 
> that the Liberal Arts ideal has received during my lifetime and my blief that 
> we need to restore the country's faith in LEARNING.I believe with all my 
> heart that good things happen when you get smart diverse people together and 
> make them think and argue about stuff.  I also thing there are a tremendous 
> amount of young people in Santa Fe, working as baristas, and programmers, and 
> piano tuners who by their devotion to the life of the mind deserve to pursue 
> their interests.  
>
> Speaking of battering, it's my understanding that the small liberal arts 
> colleges are in for a terrible few years under the new tax bill and the 
> Relatively Wealthy People of Santa Fe may need to be thinking about how to 
> defend St. Johns, not to mention what every might be left of the poor old 
> College of Santa Fe. 
>
> Take care, 
>
> Nick 
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of ? u???
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2018 8:53 AM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] City University of Santa Fe
>
> I don't know how long they keep their records.  But there's no corporation 
> with that name in the online database:
>
>   https://portal.sos.state.nm.us/BFS/online/CorporationBusinessSearch
>
> There are some non-profits with a Nick Thompson as an officer.  But that Nick 
> seems to live in Albuquerque.
>
> On 01/05/2018 07:35 AM, Nick Thompson wrote:
>
>> On Jan 4, 2018 11:05 PM, "Nick Thompson" > > wrote:
>> YEARS ago, when the College of Santa Fe was failing, I started 
>> a nonprofit called the City University of Santa Fe which was designed 
>> to pull all 

Re: [FRIAM] Meltdown & Spectre

[Alfredo Covaleda Vélez]

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01/meltdown-and-spectre-heres-what-intel-apple-microsoft-others-are-doing-about-it/

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:23 PM, Marcus Daniels 
wrote:

> Hah.  That’s pretty much the end.
> The out-of-order-execution machinery has a (poker) ‘give’ that can be
> exploited.
> Of course it could.  Probably has been in use for years.  Wow.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2018, at 7:03 PM, Gillian Densmore 
> wrote:
>
> I don't pretend to have some of the tech reading skills to have followed
> that article well. Is what it saying is Intell CPU's are bad about making
> sure it has enough extra hands hands to  make sure they can do something
> before doing so. And that basically it's possible to basically make a smart
> are program that tells your computers brain it can do something and not to
> bother checking, no really don't bother  if it can do something
>
> Question: How realisticly likely (or do able) is that? and isn't that
> quite a bit like many of the jerk  fake websites wich spam Chrome/Chromium
>  browsers  trolling scripts that say: your computer has a bug a bajillion
> times so as the browers goes kaboom? On windows 10 almost all of them try
> to look like a fake patch or flash update or something and make an obnoxous
> beep or alert type of sound "your computer is infected! call MS tech
> Support  " If that's oddly specific I have run into that. particular one.
> Their's probably others like it.
>
> So if I read this right: a Meltdown/Spectre style aholery tells your
> computer a whoper of a story. Realy fast in the hopes, of burning through
> more brain power than it has? Didn't we have this in the 80's and 90's?
> Something like a DDOS and Ping of Doom and other similler issues?  Didn't
> they fix that after Anonymous found out how to crash the whole Sony Network
> just bey changing their clocks?(and doing the same to Battlenet/D) many
> years ago? I know they crashed battle.net using a fake patch that
> basically told a whoper to blizzards (then) only clock, such that when
> people updated to a fake patch it kept doing so (999 times a second
> because the clock was lied to)
>
> I don't know what was more impressive that they could make a fake patch,
> [and users didn't know it was fake including me]Or that no one at blizzard
> or activision checked , or that patch bassically sat in 2billion peoples
> cache for almost 3 months
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong. Spectre/Meltdown look to be in the same
> vane.but (possible) able to reak much more havoc.
>
> The technique of lying to the computers memory is strangely similler how
> some game bots work. Is that for speed? or just a limitation of processors?
> if you know. I am genuinely curius^_^
>
> et.worldofwarcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Warden_(software)
>
> 
>
>1.
>
> 
>2.
>
> 
>
>
> For example on the legit side:Warden (WarCrafts memory and saftey system)
> helps tell legit bots (called mobs and NPC's)  what to do. It's possible to
> mis-lead Warden in a simillar way as spectre, Some scripting stunts (cache
> from LUA for example)
>
> can at  ask Warden what it's thinging about (IF ha ha haha the Warden+LuA
> key chained API  hahahahah hasn't changed a running joke for LUA
> enthusiasts because it will  )
>
> On the good side that meens realy bad ass things like tweaking textures or
> how some stuff to just your computer looks, or adding nice quality of life
> things.
>
> However some people use that to cheat well beyond what the company allows
> and I can't help but wonder if iSpectre/Meltdown use simillar tricks just
> because the way it looks to work to me is very simillar to  how some game
> bots and Mobs work.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:10 PM, cody dooderson 
> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know if the Ethereum cryptocurrency is affected by these
>> bugs? I think it has some sort of distributed scripting based on
>> javascript.
>>
>> Cody Smith
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 3:26 PM, glen ep ropella 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure you're all already aware... But just in case:
>>>
>>> Reading privileged memory with a side-channel
>>> https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2018/01/reading-privi
>>> leged-memory-with-side.html
>>>
>>> --
>>> glen
>>>
>>>
>>>