Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[thompnickson2]

Sorry, Glen.  I left out a crucial detail.  Before "things get tough", they 
reproduce by cell division.  So, each cell has  the choice to throw in with the 
group, or to continue to reproduce by division.  This sets up the "group 
selection problem" because only some of the individuals that form the fruiting 
body ever get to be spores.   

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of ? u?l?
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 4:28 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

I don't know why I inverted the Mach number. [sigh]

What do you mean "when things get tough"? Wikipedia says when food is in short 
supply. But that sounds like the trigger to become social and, once collected, 
there might be another (set of) trigger(s) to reproduce? Or is it the case 
that, once together, they will inevitably reproduce? So, 3 collective behaviors 
reproduce, move, and harden up? I can imagine that the signal(s) to harden up 
can be more non-local than the signal(s) to reproduce, whatever it(they) might 
be.

On 7/6/20 2:11 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> Speaking of Reynolds numbers?
> 
> A great many years ago I had an undergraduate honors student who wanted to 
> work with slime molds.  These are social single celled organisms that, when 
> things get tough, flow together to form a stem and a fruiting body.  From the 
> fruiting body are distributed spores for the next generation. Only some small 
> percentage of the original cells get into the fruiting body, so they pose a 
> problem of the "group selection" type.  We were wondering whether we should 
> be thinking of fruiting bodies as like dandelions or like burrs.  A little 
> reflection about scale and viscosity suggested that dandelions was a stupid 
> model.  The student devoted some time to mimicking with a probe what would 
> happen if an ant brushed up against a fruiting body, and found that, indeed, 
> they were extremely sticky.  We were overjoyed.  But then the student  fell 
> in love, and I never saw him again.  

--
☣ uǝlƃ

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[FRIAM] vote411

[thompnickson2]

Hi, US FRIAMMERS, 

 

A recent 538.com blog lamented that voter registration, particularly of new
voters, had collapsed in the US since April.  Usually the League of Women
Voters has a recruitment effort around highschool graduations that brings in
a lot of young voters.  No graduations, no registrations.  This led me to
think that I, and other members of the Idle Elderly, ought to pitch in
digitally or by phone to help with a voter registration effort.  I have been
exploring how to do that.  Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

 

In the meantime, I wonder if you all would be willing to check out the voter
registration tool on the LWV site and see if it works for you in your state.
You can, they claim, register on that site, or, if already registered, check
on your registration status.  I am wondering how broadly true that is.  You
can report back to me here (if you don't mind bothering your colleagues) or
to thompnicks...@gmail.com.  

 

Thanks, 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

thompnicks...@gmail.com  

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

 

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

[Gillian Densmore]

I did not know that either about india. Thanks!
Ed do you get residuals and research royalties from your work? (not to pry)
just curious to get my head around the economics of this.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:28 PM ∄ uǝlƃ  wrote:

>
> Nick has asked us to consider ways in which society, given its current
> structure including sci-hub and libgen, peer network theft, "late stage"
> capitalism (including things like Amazon and the gig economy), the decline
> of universities, youtube, and everything else, might *facilitate*
> non-credentialed, paid, authorship ... or more generally intellectual work
> outside academia. I don't have any kind of response, yet. But given that
> question and your calling out libgen (and its use) as an ethical question
> *and* given your description that the creators aren't paid much as things
> are, I'd like to know how you (and everyone else) parse things like Aaron
> Schwartz' Open Access Manfesto, the FAIR principles, CopyLeft, etc.
>
> It strikes me one could decide using libgen is ethically necessary, or at
> least virtuous.
>
> I don't think that. But I have a friend who comes close. He hosted Game of
> Thrones nights at his house, attended by several of their friends [†].
> Early on, he stole the episodes with Torrent. When that dried up, they
> shared a single Netflix login so all of them (maybe 10 or so) could watch
> while minimizing the cost. And every single one of these households pulls
> in >$100k per year. There's literally zero financial reason to go to such
> extents to steal that sort of content ... *except* if they believe they're
> "justified" or "right" in doing so.
>
> So, if the existence of, contribution to, and use of libgen is an ethical
> question, do you think someone who decides they *should* participate in the
> project has made a reasonable ethical choice?
>
>
> [†] I still wonder why they never invited us to their GoT parties. >8^D
>
> On 7/5/20 4:47 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all
> other than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find
> many of my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue.
>
> On 7/6/20 4:04 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> > You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.
> >
> > If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students)
> I get my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross).
> Sounds good but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly
> royalty statement is over 20 pages long).
> >
> > Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.
> >
> > Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in
> India or China nets me almost nothing.
> >
> > But it gets worse.
> >
> > There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in
> Hong Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from
> Pearson USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is
> exactly the same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my
> contract. The best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my
> contract that forces them to take my name off a version if they make
> changes I don’t approve.
> >
> > But there’s more.
> >
> > Pearson HK competes with Pearson US and other Pearson subsidiaries, So
> they can offer a lower cost International version on the web to US
> students. So not only are my royalties reduced by over 50% but Pearson HK
> is said to be doing well and Pearson US and my editor are not even though
> they and he did all the work. (he’s not longer with the company).
> >
> > And finally there’s China. Pearson sells the rights to China for a few
> thousand dollars, of which I get a small piece, and China can then print as
> many Chinese copies as they like. When I questioned management about what
> appeared to me to be a ridiculous deal, the answer was that if they asked
> for more, the Chinese would simply copy it for free.
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
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>
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Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[David Eric Smith]

Thank you Jon,

Yes, I had forgotten that Purcell did the original of this, and I may not have 
seen this particular lecture.  (I don’t have recall of the hand pictures.)

What a remarkable guy he was.  In almost any topic where he wrote teaching 
materials, his are the best version on the subject.

Little fun note:  When I was first trying to learn some biochemistry, way back 
in the earliest days at Los Alamos, I went to Hans Frauenfelder at CNLS to ask 
for advice.  All the biochem books available looked to me like books of case 
law, just scrolls and scrolls of details, and descriptions of patterns, but 
nothing I could recognize as a principle that could be used in any kind of 
constructive analysis.  It seemed like just a vast memorization exercise, with 
no objective but to be able to repeat what one had been told to remember.  
Frauenfelder pointed me to Lubert Stryer’s biochem book, and told me it was 
really the only one that was well matched to a physicist’s style of learning. 
To convince me?  Stryer has an explicit note of thanks to Purcell in the 
acknowledgment.  The man did get around.

Best,

Eric


> On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:02 AM, Jon Zingale  wrote:
> 
> The version of "Life at low Reynolds number" that I am familiar with is this
> one:
> http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gold/pdfs/purcell.pdf
> 
> A wonderful lecture.
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

[∄ uǝlƃ]

Nick has asked us to consider ways in which society, given its current 
structure including sci-hub and libgen, peer network theft, "late stage" 
capitalism (including things like Amazon and the gig economy), the decline of 
universities, youtube, and everything else, might *facilitate* 
non-credentialed, paid, authorship ... or more generally intellectual work 
outside academia. I don't have any kind of response, yet. But given that 
question and your calling out libgen (and its use) as an ethical question *and* 
given your description that the creators aren't paid much as things are, I'd 
like to know how you (and everyone else) parse things like Aaron Schwartz' Open 
Access Manfesto, the FAIR principles, CopyLeft, etc.

It strikes me one could decide using libgen is ethically necessary, or at least 
virtuous.

I don't think that. But I have a friend who comes close. He hosted Game of 
Thrones nights at his house, attended by several of their friends [†]. Early 
on, he stole the episodes with Torrent. When that dried up, they shared a 
single Netflix login so all of them (maybe 10 or so) could watch while 
minimizing the cost. And every single one of these households pulls in >$100k 
per year. There's literally zero financial reason to go to such extents to 
steal that sort of content ... *except* if they believe they're "justified" or 
"right" in doing so.

So, if the existence of, contribution to, and use of libgen is an ethical 
question, do you think someone who decides they *should* participate in the 
project has made a reasonable ethical choice?


[†] I still wonder why they never invited us to their GoT parties. >8^D

On 7/5/20 4:47 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other 
> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of my 
> colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue. 

On 7/6/20 4:04 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.
> 
> If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students) I 
> get my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross). Sounds 
> good but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly royalty 
> statement is over 20 pages long). 
> 
> Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.
> 
> Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in India or 
> China nets me almost nothing.
> 
> But it gets worse.
> 
> There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in Hong 
> Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from Pearson 
> USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is exactly the 
> same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my contract. The 
> best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my contract that 
> forces them to take my name off a version if they make changes I don’t 
> approve.
> 
> But there’s more.
> 
> Pearson HK competes with Pearson US and other Pearson subsidiaries, So they 
> can offer a lower cost International version on the web to US students. So 
> not only are my royalties reduced by over 50% but Pearson HK is said to be 
> doing well and Pearson US and my editor are not even though they and he did 
> all the work. (he’s not longer with the company).
> 
> And finally there’s China. Pearson sells the rights to China for a few 
> thousand dollars, of which I get a small piece, and China can then print as 
> many Chinese copies as they like. When I questioned management about what 
> appeared to me to be a ridiculous deal, the answer was that if they asked for 
> more, the Chinese would simply copy it for free.


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

[Edward Angel]

Sarbajit,

You are just touching the surface of how authors are not making profits.

If a book is sold in a college bookstore (all of which rip off students) I get 
my contractual royalties (18% of net which is about 80% of gross). Sounds good 
but then there are a number of side deals (my six monthly royalty statement is 
over 20 pages long). 

Net from an Amazon sales is almost nothing.

Any international sales reduce any royalty by 50%. An Amazon sale in India or 
China nets me almost nothing.

But it gets worse.

There is an International Edition which is handled through Pearson in Hong 
Kong. To avoid  possible copyright issues they get the tex files from Pearson 
USA and change some of the exercises such that the pagination is exactly the 
same. The changed problems are idiotic and I believe violate my contract. The 
best I could do for the new edition is get a clause in my contract that forces 
them to take my name off a version if they make changes I don’t approve.

But there’s more.

Pearson HK competes with Pearson US and other Pearson subsidiaries, So they can 
offer a lower cost International version on the web to US students. So not only 
are my royalties reduced by over 50% but Pearson HK is said to be doing well 
and Pearson US and my editor are not even though they and he did all the work. 
(he’s not longer with the company).

And finally there’s China. Pearson sells the rights to China for a few thousand 
dollars, of which I get a small piece, and China can then print as many Chinese 
copies as they like. When I questioned management about what appeared to me to 
be a ridiculous deal, the answer was that if they asked for more, the Chinese 
would simply copy it for free.

Re: drug prices. A large percentage of the generic drugs in the U.S. are 
imported from India. Because insurance companies can negotiate drug prices, if 
you have insurance such as Medicare Part D, prices can be very low. We pay $5 
month for most generics and our monthly statement from the insurer shows that 
their part of the cost is never more than a dollar or two per Rx. The tragedy 
of drug prices in the US is that people who most need inexpensive drugs are 
uninsured and get hit by outrageous prices at the pharmacy.

We also found on our trips to India that drugs we really wanted to have with us 
on treks, were unavailable in the U.S. but were over-the-counter in India.

Ed

___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 

505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 


> On Jul 6, 2020, at 3:59 PM, Sarbajit Roy  wrote:
> 
> Gary
> 
> Actually I agree with you to a considerable extent. 
> 
> Let us consider Edward's book, On Amazon-India his book (the 7th edn) is 
> available to us at a Kindle price of approx $9.50. Amazon sells the same 
> Kindle book in China at $45 and at $155+ for Kindle in the USA.
> 
> What does this suggest to you ? For me it's that the authors are not making 
> the profits - Jeff Bezos  do
> 
> Now to come back to the question of why prices in India are affordable, it's 
> because we have (had ?) a few activist judges who ensured that India's 
> constitutional status as a socialist state means the needs of the many 
> (parasites ?) takes priority over the profits of the producers (creators). 
> 
> The prices of most life-saving quality drugs in India are probably 1/20th of 
> what you would pay in the States. That's because the same court enforced our 
> nation's sovereign rights under TRIPS/CUTS/WTO agreements etc . When I read 
> about poor people in USA not being able to afford their next insulin shot 
> because it's so darn expensive, you may like to know that a 30 shot insulin 
> Flexpen costs about $5 while the same manufacturer sells the identical pen 
> for 20 times the price in New York.
> 
> Sarbajit
> 
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:09 AM Gary Schiltz  > wrote:
> No offense to the government of your country, but just because its courts 
> have judged it to be legal, doesn't make it right. Of course "right" is a 
> subjective, moral concept, and I hasten to add that morality is relative and 
> personal. Additionally, I don't know how subject other countries are to the 
> pronouncements of a particular country's judgments. I'll leave that to the 
> United Nations. But in the case of copyrights, my own view of what is right 
> is that the availability for copying of material should ideally be in the 
> hands of the author. My two cents worth.
> 
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:11 PM Sarbajit Roy  > wrote:
> I got your book from here 
> 

Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[∄ uǝlƃ]

I don't know why I inverted the Mach number. [sigh]

What do you mean "when things get tough"? Wikipedia says when food is in short 
supply. But that sounds like the trigger to become social and, once collected, 
there might be another (set of) trigger(s) to reproduce? Or is it the case 
that, once together, they will inevitably reproduce? So, 3 collective behaviors 
reproduce, move, and harden up? I can imagine that the signal(s) to harden up 
can be more non-local than the signal(s) to reproduce, whatever it(they) might 
be.

On 7/6/20 2:11 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> Speaking of Reynolds numbers?
> 
> A great many years ago I had an undergraduate honors student who wanted to 
> work with slime molds.  These are social single celled organisms that, when 
> things get tough, flow together to form a stem and a fruiting body.  From the 
> fruiting body are distributed spores for the next generation. Only some small 
> percentage of the original cells get into the fruiting body, so they pose a 
> problem of the "group selection" type.  We were wondering whether we should 
> be thinking of fruiting bodies as like dandelions or like burrs.  A little 
> reflection about scale and viscosity suggested that dandelions was a stupid 
> model.  The student devoted some time to mimicking with a probe what would 
> happen if an ant brushed up against a fruiting body, and found that, indeed, 
> they were extremely sticky.  We were overjoyed.  But then the student  fell 
> in love, and I never saw him again.  

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

[Gary Schiltz]

Sarbajit, I appreciate your perspective. I didn't realize that India's
constitution declares it to be a socialist state. Perhaps India could be
cited more often as an example of socialism actually working in an advanced
democracy, alongside capitalism.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:00 PM Sarbajit Roy  wrote:

> Gary
>
> Actually I agree with you to a considerable extent.
>
> Let us consider Edward's book, On Amazon-India his book (the 7th edn) is
> available to us at a Kindle price of approx $9.50. Amazon sells the same
> Kindle book in China at $45 and at $155+ for Kindle in the USA.
>
> What does this suggest to you ? For me it's that the authors are not
> making the profits - Jeff Bezos  do
>
> Now to come back to the question of why prices in India are affordable,
> it's because we have (had ?) a few activist judges who ensured that India's
> constitutional status as a *socialist* state means the needs of the many
> (parasites ?) takes priority over the profits of the producers (creators).
>
> The prices of most life-saving *quality* drugs in India are probably
> 1/20th of what you would pay in the States. That's because the same court
> enforced our nation's sovereign rights under TRIPS/CUTS/WTO agreements etc
> . When I read about poor people in USA not being able to afford their next
> insulin shot because it's so darn expensive, you may like to know that a 30
> shot insulin Flexpen costs about $5 while the same manufacturer sells the
> identical pen for 20 times the price in New York.
>
> Sarbajit
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:09 AM Gary Schiltz 
> wrote:
>
>> No offense to the government of your country, but just because its courts
>> have judged it to be legal, doesn't make it right. Of course "right" is a
>> subjective, moral concept, and I hasten to add that morality is relative
>> and personal. Additionally, I don't know how subject other countries are to
>> the pronouncements of a particular country's judgments. I'll leave that to
>> the United Nations. But in the case of copyrights, my own view of what is
>> right is that the availability for copying of material should ideally be in
>> the hands of the author. My two cents worth.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:11 PM Sarbajit Roy  wrote:
>>
>>> I got your book from here
>>>
>>> https://www.pdfdrive.com/interactive-computer-graphics-a-top-down-approach-with-webgl-edward-angel-and-dave-d38281420.html
>>>
>>> The Indian judgment is clear, Reproduction is limited to a copy which
>>> the teacher/institute has LEGALLY purchased.
>>>
>>> There are other judgments from the same court directing that thousands
>>> of infringing movie piracy websites (and their whack-a-mole clones) are
>>> blocked in India for copyright violation and harm caused to producers.
>>>
>>> https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Utv_Software_Communication_Ltd._..._vs_1337X.To_And_Ors_on_10_April_2019-1.pdf
>>>
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:17 AM Edward Angel  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks but the story is more complex.

 What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email
 from someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there
 was a ps file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the
 instructor who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a
 perfect copy of the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access
 to a final ps version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a
 big investigation at Pearson to see who had violated security during
 production only to find out after weeks that the people at Pearson who
 dealt with accessibility issues were sending out the file to every school
 that adopted the book (at the time around 200 just in the US).

 What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io, which was
 a while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in which you
 could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle version
 which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how easy
 it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now
 is that the ps version is libgen.is so someone else must have uploaded
 it.

 The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very
 interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the
 U.K. In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but
 with sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of
 copyright or ownership  That file is then available worldwide to everyone.
 Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other
 than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of
 my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue.

 Ed

 ___

 Ed Angel

Re: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group selection

[Jochen Fromm]

The concept of "embedding" is probably helpful here:The coastline of Britain is 
an embedding of a 2-dim object (a coast) in a 1-dim object (a line). Like a 
4-dim hypercube that looks complex because it is embedded in a 3-dim 
space.Likewise a group can be seen as a 2-dim object (natural + cultural 
dimensions) embedded in a 1-dim object (natural organism).The fractal dimension 
is a result of this embedding. Maybe we have mathematicians here that can 
explain it better how complex structures and fractal dimensions can arise from 
embeddings ? :-/-J.
 Original message From: Jochen Fromm  Date: 
7/6/20  10:20  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee 
Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group 
selection Nick, your paper looks interesting. From what I understand it tries 
to analyze the group selection metaphor. Metaphors are a natural tool we use to 
understand abstract objects. To understand a complex problem knowing the tool 
is important, but it also helps to understand the underlying processes from 
different perspectives.One perspective is reciprocity:Kin selection: gene-gene 
reciprocity for biological genes. I help my brother or cousin to reproduce his 
genes, and he helps to reproduce my genes because we are related.Group 
selection: biological gene-group gene reciprocity. I help the group to 
reproduce its genes, and the group helps me to reproduce my genes by supporting 
me.Another perspective is virtuality:Group genes first appear in fluid 
"virtual" form, in flocks, as the paper says. Groups can exhibit group-level 
traits even if they are not encoded as genes. In the course of time these 
traits and collective behavior patterns can solidify in written form. These 
written rules are then the foundation for a new evolutionary system.And we have 
the perspective of fractality:Phenotypes in a evolutionary system can be 
complex and often exhibit a self-similar structure, which is at best described 
by fractal structures. If they are so complex that they develop an own language 
which can be used to create and store genes, then their instances can emulate, 
simulate or approximate an entity from a different evolutionary system based on 
different genes.This approximation of a different dimension is typical for 
fractal structures, too. Therefore the dimension of an evolutionary system in a 
transitional state can at best be described by a fractal dimension. If a new 
evolutionary system emerges at all depends on the solidification of group genes 
(which can be expressed in "repeated assemblies", see Smaldino (*) or my new 
book). If this is not convincing I would like to recommend the paper of Paul 
Smaldino and the work of David Sloan Wilson. You mention him in the paper, he 
is an expert in this area who knows all about group selection. -J.(*) "The 
cultural evolution of emergent group-level traits", Paul E. Smaldino, 
Behavioral Brain Science 2014 Jun 37(3) 243-54 Original message 
From: thompnicks...@gmail.com Date: 7/5/20  23:21  (GMT+01:00) To: 'The 
Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'  Subject: 
Re: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group selection Hi, Jochen,  So, I am 
writing to ask for access to our mind for this work. I think it explores your 
notion of “fractality” but in a very different language.  What’s access cost, 
these days?  Nick  Nicholas ThompsonEmeritus Professor of Ethology and 
PsychologyClark 
UniversityThompNickSon2@gmail.comhttps://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/   
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Jochen FrommSent: Sunday, 
July 5, 2020 6:52 AMTo: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group selection We 
recently discussed the concept of a fractal dimension, and today morning I had 
the idea that we can apply it to the concept of group selection to measure how 
many dimensions an evolutionary system has. If you are interested take a look 
athttp://blog.cas-group.net/2020/07/the-fractal-dimension-of-group-selection/ 
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Re: [FRIAM] Book publishing advice needed

[Sarbajit Roy]

Gary

Actually I agree with you to a considerable extent.

Let us consider Edward's book, On Amazon-India his book (the 7th edn) is
available to us at a Kindle price of approx $9.50. Amazon sells the same
Kindle book in China at $45 and at $155+ for Kindle in the USA.

What does this suggest to you ? For me it's that the authors are not making
the profits - Jeff Bezos  do

Now to come back to the question of why prices in India are affordable,
it's because we have (had ?) a few activist judges who ensured that India's
constitutional status as a *socialist* state means the needs of the many
(parasites ?) takes priority over the profits of the producers (creators).

The prices of most life-saving *quality* drugs in India are probably 1/20th
of what you would pay in the States. That's because the same court enforced
our nation's sovereign rights under TRIPS/CUTS/WTO agreements etc . When I
read about poor people in USA not being able to afford their next insulin
shot because it's so darn expensive, you may like to know that a 30 shot
insulin Flexpen costs about $5 while the same manufacturer sells the
identical pen for 20 times the price in New York.

Sarbajit

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 6:09 AM Gary Schiltz 
wrote:

> No offense to the government of your country, but just because its courts
> have judged it to be legal, doesn't make it right. Of course "right" is a
> subjective, moral concept, and I hasten to add that morality is relative
> and personal. Additionally, I don't know how subject other countries are to
> the pronouncements of a particular country's judgments. I'll leave that to
> the United Nations. But in the case of copyrights, my own view of what is
> right is that the availability for copying of material should ideally be in
> the hands of the author. My two cents worth.
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 7:11 PM Sarbajit Roy  wrote:
>
>> I got your book from here
>>
>> https://www.pdfdrive.com/interactive-computer-graphics-a-top-down-approach-with-webgl-edward-angel-and-dave-d38281420.html
>>
>> The Indian judgment is clear, Reproduction is limited to a copy which the
>> teacher/institute has LEGALLY purchased.
>>
>> There are other judgments from the same court directing that thousands of
>> infringing movie piracy websites (and their whack-a-mole clones) are
>> blocked in India for copyright violation and harm caused to producers.
>>
>> https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Utv_Software_Communication_Ltd._..._vs_1337X.To_And_Ors_on_10_April_2019-1.pdf
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:17 AM Edward Angel  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks but the story is more complex.
>>>
>>> What transpired is in retrospect somewhat amusing. I received an email
>>> from someone at a university that was using the book asking if I knew there
>>> was a ps file on the web of the whole book. I checked it out, contacted the
>>> instructor who had it taken down. I had no idea how anyone had obtained a
>>> perfect copy of the book. Even during copyediting, I never was given access
>>> to a final ps version with even the typesetting marks. My editor started a
>>> big investigation at Pearson to see who had violated security during
>>> production only to find out after weeks that the people at Pearson who
>>> dealt with accessibility issues were sending out the file to every school
>>> that adopted the book (at the time around 200 just in the US).
>>>
>>> What is odd to me is that the last time I checked libgen.io, which was
>>> a while ago, the version there was not a ps version put a pdf in which you
>>> could use the TOC interactively so I figured it was the kindle version
>>> which my editor, who had become somewhat expert at this, showed me how easy
>>> it is to get the kindle version. Apparently what is the the situation now
>>> is that the ps version is libgen.is so someone else must have uploaded
>>> it.
>>>
>>> The material on the Indian decision on respect to fair use was very
>>> interesting. I was familiar with the fair use policies in the U.S. and the
>>> U.K. In spirit, they are the same. However, the problem is not fair use but
>>> with sites like libgen, where anyone can upload a file irrespective of
>>> copyright or ownership  That file is then available worldwide to everyone.
>>> Consequently, the holders of the copyright have no protection at all other
>>> than some people having ethical issues with libgen. Sadly, I find many of
>>> my colleagues and students do not see this as an ethical issue.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ___
>>>
>>> Ed Angel
>>>
>>> Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory
>>> (ARTS Lab)
>>> Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico
>>>
>>> 1017 Sierra Pinon
>>> Santa Fe, NM 87501
>>> 505-984-0136 (home)   an...@cs.unm.edu
>>> 505-453-4944 (cell)  http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel
>>>
>>> On Jul 5, 2020, at 4:14 PM, Sarbajit Roy  wrote:
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
>>> The PDF of the 7th edition of your book 

Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[thompnickson2]

Speaking of Reynolds numbers?

A great many years ago I had an undergraduate honors student who wanted to work 
with slime molds.  These are social single celled organisms that, when things 
get tough, flow together to form a stem and a fruiting body.  From the fruiting 
body are distributed spores for the next generation. Only some small percentage 
of the original cells get into the fruiting body, so they pose a problem of the 
"group selection" type.  We were wondering whether we should be thinking of 
fruiting bodies as like dandelions or like burrs.  A little reflection about 
scale and viscosity suggested that dandelions was a stupid model.  The student 
devoted some time to mimicking with a probe what would happen if an ant brushed 
up against a fruiting body, and found that, indeed, they were extremely sticky. 
 We were overjoyed.  But then the student  fell in love, and I never saw him 
again.  

Let that be a lesson to you all.  

Nick  

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of ? u?l?
Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 2:18 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

So... I'm familiar with both Reynolds and Mach from my days at Lockheed. 
But Mach, as I (probably don't) understand it, is tied to sound only because 
that's an indirect measure of the medium's compressibility, sound being 
compression waves. In thinking about these "low Reynolds number" organisms, I 
can't help but wonder what the analog for the "speed of sound" is for them. It 
strikes me that E. coli live way above "Mach 1", they live near Mach ∞, right? 
But if the medium is effectively incompressible, can there be pressure 
gradients across the organism's membrane? There must be, right? Since these 
things have internal architecture, including vacuoles, movement like the 
amoeba's "processes" seems more interesting than the poloidal rotation he 
mentions. Does the amoeba "push" against its medium? Or simply "grow through 
it"?

One of the coolest things about tissues to me is that they engineer their 
world, extruding their tools and infrastructure like so many dorks with 3D 
printers. I've only briefly skimmed the Purcell paper, but I didn't see 
anything about if/how microorganisms might do the same. If the amoeba-like ones 
"grow" through the medium, rather than pushing/pulling, then maybe the analog 
for the Mach number is related to diffusion and gradients, which makes 
Purcell's discussion of it on point, but doesn't go far enough.

On 7/6/20 8:02 AM, Jon Zingale wrote:
> The version of "Life at low Reynolds number" that I am familiar with 
> is this
> one:
> http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gold/pdfs/purcell.pdf


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Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[∄ uǝlƃ]

So... I'm familiar with both Reynolds and Mach from my days at Lockheed. 
But Mach, as I (probably don't) understand it, is tied to sound only because 
that's an indirect measure of the medium's compressibility, sound being 
compression waves. In thinking about these "low Reynolds number" organisms, I 
can't help but wonder what the analog for the "speed of sound" is for them. It 
strikes me that E. coli live way above "Mach 1", they live near Mach ∞, right? 
But if the medium is effectively incompressible, can there be pressure 
gradients across the organism's membrane? There must be, right? Since these 
things have internal architecture, including vacuoles, movement like the 
amoeba's "processes" seems more interesting than the poloidal rotation he 
mentions. Does the amoeba "push" against its medium? Or simply "grow through 
it"?

One of the coolest things about tissues to me is that they engineer their 
world, extruding their tools and infrastructure like so many dorks with 3D 
printers. I've only briefly skimmed the Purcell paper, but I didn't see 
anything about if/how microorganisms might do the same. If the amoeba-like ones 
"grow" through the medium, rather than pushing/pulling, then maybe the analog 
for the Mach number is related to diffusion and gradients, which makes 
Purcell's discussion of it on point, but doesn't go far enough.

On 7/6/20 8:02 AM, Jon Zingale wrote:
> The version of "Life at low Reynolds number" that I am familiar with is this
> one:
> http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gold/pdfs/purcell.pdf


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[FRIAM] Dave West Sighting

[Steve Smith]

Here is photographic evidence that Dave West is alive, well, and (was)
temporarily in the Santa Fe area, and is now the proud owner of a canvas
print of Jon Zingale's "Book of Kells" rendering of magic mushrooms from
the Sangre de Cristos.   I made these prints on a whim when Jon first
sent the image to us roughly a year ago?  I thought Dave's "basement in
Utah" would be a good place for one of them to live!  Look for it next
VFriam!  The other is currently at SimTable.

Dave and I met for "a beer and a bite" at the Tesuque Village Market
patio last Wednesday.  When I arrived, Dave was fully masked (visible in
his shirt pocket) and the mask did not say "Trump 2020" nor MAGA or
CAGA.   I took his word for it that he was not "in transit" from the
Tulsa MAGA rally to the one at Rushmore. ;)  I think he fled the state
before our Governor required him to go into a 14 day self-quarantine
(announced last Wednesday?).

Carry on!

 - Steve


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Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[Jon Zingale]

The version of "Life at low Reynolds number" that I am familiar with is this
one:
http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/gold/pdfs/purcell.pdf

A wonderful lecture.



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Re: [FRIAM] The theory of everything

[David Eric Smith]

Hi Nick,

Yes, wonderful questions all.  You are right to guess that there is an ocean of 
literature.  The entire part that I will know about will be akin to the 
atmosphere on a neutron star relative to the whole.  So I’ll choose anecdotes.

The most efficient way to get an idea of how much has been done would be to 
find a room with Michael Lynch in it, start a high-speed voice recorder, and 
then say in a loud voice “Evolution has never predicted anything” and hope the 
recorder can keep up with you get back.

On using natural design to predict.  Keeping with your theme of the swimming 
animals, just before my transition to SFI, I worked on shipboard with a 
wonderful oceanographer named Pete Jumars, who gave me one of his papers “Life 
at low Reynolds number”.  Maybe it was slides, because I never seem able to 
find it.  But a representative example of his concerns is here:
https://watermark.silverchair.com/30163297.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAngwggJ0BgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJlMIICYQIBADCCAloGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMpsnXVnwawncC7LH0AgEQgIICK8wAfRq3YhVda7R-cwxV0q8l9hULy6E-W7VnRyafFjnz7p7exSyM-jCzdLUf3PqtGz1hnS3W30mzvVb-SMEXXnKA34Bwj4ZKzzYuOCTc4FYixhl-qwbKcNfeesvvF-PA6PXKTYsqiaZBTD25UgA2KokJ4qcKJid66vZ4yh4TE6iG3GHD2EDqsnCuRSnw4hRx_PWUYsSS6nVgcV4a6C1xUPtJAKocei7ylPgX10OFMqoYBo32Q62BZ6FD0HQ7JWtXmXRjntR0PYDDtQd1QbRUuX4kO2RBeccm_RkQlhMBNYOBFBhxz4Y_ljs4CW0uOcXy1oR1l0giKCjyolN-H6uEYCNtFao6BJbTV7ewb7wx4BvulOTptMlqkZsvDhLlrzOZi2UP6Sq9UkwCFsU858-V5NMaKbBmz1CvcG1PCZj1yNZ5tLpHsyjSczJHfbFF54ZLh5zKf0reL79QXLUKAMQeVIJwUXJY3e9XBXGJohilA41KQAT3DcozOVcvUY4p0LEjs7qsLaRbCq1lVjcQ8hYDBJ2GWK_GzgF4c4d1bUYFChwiwZjh9ZY0pIbZdZtpwv5PJVYUAG-Aa_6HAvNmCApx6S5NQY4F468aUaDgIlY9GmqCpZ0V_QpLmQfGXOcVZ8MBsifV6z5nlxRt_DF-LPFdvDEDr3PMR12azVDbE-Re0FT5_ts_SGQup0WdRs63SxqG_WK6iLnndQEJFVDR8VD19WSFaB2GNcmsrDuNGQ
 


Short story is: in the eyes of a fluid dynamicist, diatoms and other 
phytoplankton look more or less alike.  Much like whales and fish looked alike 
to Melville.  But phytoplankton don’t look anything like whales and fish.  The 
distinction being that the former live at low Reynolds number, while the latter 
at high.  So there is a difference in the relative strengths of viscosity and 
inertia.  Being a good diatom is achieved sometimes by looking like Sputnik 
(see some pictures in the above link).  So there are some levels where the 
grossness of the prediction is so extreme that one doesn’t even realize it is a 
prediction.  Yet it is just one dimensionless constant that governs regimes of 
fluid flow.

To your point about “bad design” etc., the resolution is to realize that there 
is a lot of architecture connecting selection across levels.  Darwin was 
already onto this (I think it was him) in recognizing that the question of why 
male mammals have non-lactating nipples is answered by recognizing that sexual 
dimorphism is a tiny veneer on a developmental sequence that is already 
complex, and constrained by many other pressures of re-use of components, need 
for robustness, scalability, and so forth.  From all the things we know about 
how sex differentiation is layered thinly on already highly-committed 
developmental machinery as deep in the phylogeny as it appears, that argument 
is only more starkly compelling.  The settling onto two genders appears to be 
clearly a typological category, arrived at convergently by several 
differently-organized genetic systems.  There are even vertebrates in which sex 
determination is late and environmentally gated (many kinds of fish).  So it 
doesn’t reach very far down into the locked-in hardware when it tries to make 
gender distinctions.  I would guess that the ability to make dimorphic sexual 
genders without having to interfere with core development is itself a capacity 
that has been under positive selection.  Maybe people like Gerhart and 
Kirschner would know (the argument they call “facilitated variation”, e.g. in 
Cells, Embryos, and Evolution), but I haven’t looked.

I think the major work that could 

Re: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group selection

[Jochen Fromm]

Nick, your paper looks interesting. From what I understand it tries to analyze 
the group selection metaphor. Metaphors are a natural tool we use to understand 
abstract objects. To understand a complex problem knowing the tool is 
important, but it also helps to understand the underlying processes from 
different perspectives.One perspective is reciprocity:Kin selection: gene-gene 
reciprocity for biological genes. I help my brother or cousin to reproduce his 
genes, and he helps to reproduce my genes because we are related.Group 
selection: biological gene-group gene reciprocity. I help the group to 
reproduce its genes, and the group helps me to reproduce my genes by supporting 
me.Another perspective is virtuality:Group genes first appear in fluid 
"virtual" form, in flocks, as the paper says. Groups can exhibit group-level 
traits even if they are not encoded as genes. In the course of time these 
traits and collective behavior patterns can solidify in written form. These 
written rules are then the foundation for a new evolutionary system.And we have 
the perspective of fractality:Phenotypes in a evolutionary system can be 
complex and often exhibit a self-similar structure, which is at best described 
by fractal structures. If they are so complex that they develop an own language 
which can be used to create and store genes, then their instances can emulate, 
simulate or approximate an entity from a different evolutionary system based on 
different genes.This approximation of a different dimension is typical for 
fractal structures, too. Therefore the dimension of an evolutionary system in a 
transitional state can at best be described by a fractal dimension. If a new 
evolutionary system emerges at all depends on the solidification of group genes 
(which can be expressed in "repeated assemblies", see Smaldino (*) or my new 
book). If this is not convincing I would like to recommend the paper of Paul 
Smaldino and the work of David Sloan Wilson. You mention him in the paper, he 
is an expert in this area who knows all about group selection. -J.(*) "The 
cultural evolution of emergent group-level traits", Paul E. Smaldino, 
Behavioral Brain Science 2014 Jun 37(3) 243-54
 Original message From: thompnicks...@gmail.com Date: 7/5/20  
23:21  (GMT+01:00) To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' 
 Subject: Re: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group 
selection Hi, Jochen,  So, I am writing to ask for access to our mind for this 
work. I think it explores your notion of “fractality” but in a very different 
language.  What’s access cost, these days?  Nick  Nicholas ThompsonEmeritus 
Professor of Ethology and PsychologyClark 
UniversityThompNickSon2@gmail.comhttps://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/   
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Jochen FrommSent: Sunday, 
July 5, 2020 6:52 AMTo: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] The fractal dimension of group selection We 
recently discussed the concept of a fractal dimension, and today morning I had 
the idea that we can apply it to the concept of group selection to measure how 
many dimensions an evolutionary system has. If you are interested take a look 
athttp://blog.cas-group.net/2020/07/the-fractal-dimension-of-group-selection/ 
-J. -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
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