Re: [FRIAM] AI Musings

[Frank Wimberly]

I agree, Russ.  I taught at Pitt and Carnegie Mellon for 25 years or so.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 2:42 PM Russ Abbott  wrote:

> Look at all the online course companies such as Coursera. They haven't
> replaced college teachers. I suspect that one reason is that online courses
> have no person-to-person mechanism to help students live up to the
> discipline necessary to do well in a course. As a retired and somewhat
> cynical college professor, my experience has been that the top priority of
> too many students is to get through their courses with minimal effort. Most
> students need to know that a living person is aware of how much effort they
> are putting into their work. Without the ongoing presence of a watchful and
> interested person-in-authority, too many students find it too easy to let
> their courses slide.
>
> -- Russ Abbott
> Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
> California State University, Los Angeles
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:00 AM Grant Holland 
> wrote:
>
>> Frank,
>>
>> I'm wondering why no-one seems to raise the specter that AI could start
>> replacing management personnel. And I’m including CxO’s here; because I’m
>> not convinced that CxO-ing is rocket science or quantum mechanics. Think of
>> the billions saved. After all, if machine learning cannot get good at
>> making better decisions than humans, and constantly improving at it, I
>> would be very surprised.
>>
>> Grant
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>>
>> Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close
>> colleague of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a
>> college professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this
>>> list noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have
>>> thought about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.
>>>
>>> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human
>>> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program
>>> "intelligent."
>>>
>>> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking
>>> exhibited by college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate
>>> (Newell and Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was
>>> able to implement on a computer).
>>>
>>> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more
>>> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that,
>>> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved
>>> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast
>>> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension
>>> of what was read did not make the cut.
>>>
>>> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human
>>> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs
>>> more interesting.
>>>
>>> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI
>>> (or let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human
>>> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a
>>> Shullenberger and land on the Hudson River?
>>>
>>> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs
>>> causing massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of
>>> human intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since
>>> the age of Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been
>>> dehumanizing.
>>>
>>> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then
>>> it is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform
>>> human work.
>>>
>>> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my
>>> profession—college professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I
>>> would bet good money that a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver,
>>> lectures far better than any I created in 30 years teaching. And probably
>>> most, if not all, of the presentations I made at professional conferences
>>> over the years.
>>>
>>> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have
>>> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in
>>> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.
>>>
>>> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only
>>> when some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not
>>> essentialism, but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter
>>> the finite sampling rate, there is always some missing information.
>>>
>>> davew
>>>
>>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.

Re: [FRIAM] AI Musings

[Russ Abbott]

Look at all the online course companies such as Coursera. They haven't
replaced college teachers. I suspect that one reason is that online courses
have no person-to-person mechanism to help students live up to the
discipline necessary to do well in a course. As a retired and somewhat
cynical college professor, my experience has been that the top priority of
too many students is to get through their courses with minimal effort. Most
students need to know that a living person is aware of how much effort they
are putting into their work. Without the ongoing presence of a watchful and
interested person-in-authority, too many students find it too easy to let
their courses slide.

-- Russ Abbott
Professor Emeritus, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 9:00 AM Grant Holland 
wrote:

> Frank,
>
> I'm wondering why no-one seems to raise the specter that AI could start
> replacing management personnel. And I’m including CxO’s here; because I’m
> not convinced that CxO-ing is rocket science or quantum mechanics. Think of
> the billions saved. After all, if machine learning cannot get good at
> making better decisions than humans, and constantly improving at it, I
> would be very surprised.
>
> Grant
>
> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>
> Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close
> colleague of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a
> college professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect.
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West 
> wrote:
>
>> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this
>> list noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have
>> thought about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.
>>
>> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human
>> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program
>> "intelligent."
>>
>> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking
>> exhibited by college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate
>> (Newell and Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was
>> able to implement on a computer).
>>
>> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more
>> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that,
>> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved
>> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast
>> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension
>> of what was read did not make the cut.
>>
>> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human
>> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs
>> more interesting.
>>
>> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI
>> (or let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human
>> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a
>> Shullenberger and land on the Hudson River?
>>
>> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs
>> causing massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of
>> human intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since
>> the age of Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been
>> dehumanizing.
>>
>> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then
>> it is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform
>> human work.
>>
>> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my
>> profession—college professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I
>> would bet good money that a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver,
>> lectures far better than any I created in 30 years teaching. And probably
>> most, if not all, of the presentations I made at professional conferences
>> over the years.
>>
>> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have
>> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in
>> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.
>>
>> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only when
>> some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not essentialism,
>> but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter the finite
>> sampling rate, there is always some missing information.
>>
>> davew
>>
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_red

Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[Steve Smith]

DaveW-rote:


Steve Smith's use of the phrase "arms race" reminded me of John
Brunner's /Shockwave Rider /and its underlying premise of the
dangers of constant change, 'first the legs race, then the arms
race, then the brain race'. (Brunner was inspired by Tofler's
book, /Future Shock/.)



My biggest takeaway from /Shockwave Rider/ was the *collectivizing* of 
Intell (igence?) via /Hearing Aid/10-9//s /as well as the power of 
"witness" it offered to the "witnessed".   The ideation of a small set 
of people collectively listening to the pulse of the bulk populace as a 
social/mental-health service  yielding the residue of a sort of 
collective wisdom/awareness in the subset is reminiscent of both the NSA 
and of the LLMs.


I have read it thrice, I think it is time for a revisit.  It was written 
in the shadow of Nixon/Allende as we are (still) in the shadow of 
Trump/Zelenskyy?  I think my second read was in 1984 in "honor of" 
Orwells 1948 novel of that name (1984) coming of age.


I think my last read was circa 2010 near the beginning of the 
smart-phone era and the death of the landline.



The book also poses a problem: if you have two bodies in orbit,
how does one catch up or surpass the other. /"See you later
accelerator,"/ illustrates the perceived fallacy of these kinds of
"races."

The current AI mania is akin to the brain race in Brunner, except,
in the book, the race was to increase/augment human intelligence
not artificial.

I wonder where the world might be if the same effort and money
that has been spent on artificial intelligence had instead been
invested in Englebart's effort to augment human intelligence.


I am not AS interested in /Intelligence/ as I am perhaps in 
/Consciousness /which of course, the discussion of, is an entirely 
different kettle of eels.


- SteveS
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Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[glen]

Well, we are doing quite a bit of this ... not enough, of course. And we have 
this whole new postmodern problem of both right- and left-wingers attacking our 
education system whenever and wherever they can. (What is education if not a 
technology to augment human intelligence?) But it's not in the same category as 
the pre-emptive hype train surrounding predictive ML.

On 3/30/23 11:31, Prof David West wrote:

I wonder where the world might be if the same effort and money that has been 
spent on artificial intelligence had instead been invested in Englebart's 
effort to augment human intelligence.


--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[Prof David West]

Steve Smith's use of the phrase "arms race" reminded me of John Brunner's 
*Shockwave Rider *and its underlying premise of the dangers of constant change, 
'first the legs race, then the arms race, then the brain race'. (Brunner was 
inspired by Tofler's book, *Future Shock*.)

The book also poses a problem: if you have two bodies in orbit, how does one 
catch up or surpass the other. *"See you later accelerator,"* illustrates the 
perceived fallacy of these kinds of "races."

The current AI mania is akin to the brain race in Brunner, except, in the book, 
the race was to increase/augment human intelligence not artificial.

I wonder where the world might be if the same effort and money that has been 
spent on artificial intelligence had instead been invested in Englebart's 
effort to augment human intelligence.

davew


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Steve Smith wrote:
> 
> 
> *GePR* -
>> Well, I "agree" with the open letter, for different reasons than Steve. Just 
>> yesterday, a colleague (who should know better) made a similar assertion to 
>> Nick's (and mine, and maybe Marcus' etc.) that *we* may be in the same 
>> category as a transformer decoder assembly. The context was whether a 
>> structure like GPT, designed specifically so that it can add high-order 
>> Markovian token prediction, can possibly embody/encapsulate/contain 
>> mechanistic models.
> Can you elaborate how this is an "agreement" with the open letter? I'm not 
> clear what you are agreeing with or on what principle?
>> 
>> While I don't subscribe to the fideistic write-off (or Luddite-like) of such 
>> structures as vapid or even "non-sentient", there *is* something we're doing 
>> they are not. I can't quite articulate what it is we do that they don't. But 
>> I think there is. And I think it (whatever "it" is) is being targeted by 
>> mechanism-based (or physics-based) machine learning. 
>> 
>> Being either a skeptic (as I am) or a proponent (as Marcus portrays, here), 
>> pre-emptively regulating (or attempting to regulate) the research and 
>> training is a bad, perhaps Pyrrhic Victory, thing to do. From a skeptical 
>> perspective, it slows our *falsification* of transformer decoder assemblies 
>> as containers for mechanistic reasoning. For proponents, it puts us behind 
>> others who would continue to make progress.
> I do agree that when we are in an "arms race" it feels like there is nothing 
> to do except "run faster" and don't for the love of all that is good, take a 
> pause for any reason.
> 
> To quote Thomas Jefferson (referring to Slavery):  "I think we have a wolf by 
> the ears, we can neither continue to hold it, nor can we afford to let it go".
> 
>> 
>> So, yes, it has a feedback effect, a deleterious one.
> My inner-Luddite believes that we are always in spiritual/social debt and 
> that most if not all of our attempts to dig out with more technology has, at 
> best, the benefit of rearranging the shape of the hole we are in, and 
> generally deepening and steepening it's profile. 
> 
> That said, I live my life with a shovel in one hand and a digging bar in the 
> other, even if I've (mostly) put away the diesel excavator, dynamite and 
> blasting caps...  I *am* homo-faber and this is *in* my destiny, but I want 
> to believe that I am also the superposition of many other modes: 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_for_the_human_species, with perhaps *homo 
> adaptabalis* most significantly?   If we do not at least consider our own 
> self-regulation as a collective then I think we risk degenerating to *homo 
> avarus* or *homo apathetikos.*
> 
> *-SAS*
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[glen]

Right. I put "agree" in scare quotes because I mean it more in terms of "in line with", 
"alongside", affine to, etc. What should happen, IMNSHO, is equivalent attention should be paid to mechanism-based 
machine learning, equivalent to the attention that prediction is getting. You know, heuristic vs predictive power. So, I 
"agree" with the open letter if we interpret what they're saying is "Wait a minute, these bullshit generators 
don't represent the real power of what ai/ml can do." Sure, we love bullshit. What's the market for fiction? Movies? Books? 
Etc? It's fscking huge. So, sure. Bullshit generators are great. More power to them.

But we *also* need non-bullshit generators. One avenue for generating 
non-bullshit is science. (Maybe there are others, but I'm a Scientismist.) It's 
just plain sad that the (~$45 bil?) budget of the NIH is dwarfed by the movie 
market (~280 bil?). Granted, some of the movie market is for documentaries ... 
which are somewhere between complete bullshit [⛧] and science. But whatever. My 
point is that I line up with the open letter in bemoaning the attention 
garnered by postmodern chatbots like GPT.

[⛧] Graham Hancock? Lots of "true crime". [sigh]

On 3/30/23 10:19, Steve Smith wrote:


/GePR/ -

Well, I "agree" with the open letter, for different reasons than Steve. Just 
yesterday, a colleague (who should know better) made a similar assertion to Nick's (and 
mine, and maybe Marcus' etc.) that *we* may be in the same category as a transformer 
decoder assembly. The context was whether a structure like GPT, designed specifically so 
that it can add high-order Markovian token prediction, can possibly 
embody/encapsulate/contain mechanistic models.

Can you elaborate how this is an "agreement" with the open letter? I'm not 
clear what you are agreeing with or on what principle?


While I don't subscribe to the fideistic write-off (or Luddite-like) of such structures as vapid or 
even "non-sentient", there *is* something we're doing they are not. I can't quite 
articulate what it is we do that they don't. But I think there is. And I think it (whatever 
"it" is) is being targeted by mechanism-based (or physics-based) machine learning.

Being either a skeptic (as I am) or a proponent (as Marcus portrays, here), 
pre-emptively regulating (or attempting to regulate) the research and training 
is a bad, perhaps Pyrrhic Victory, thing to do. From a skeptical perspective, 
it slows our *falsification* of transformer decoder assemblies as containers 
for mechanistic reasoning. For proponents, it puts us behind others who would 
continue to make progress.


I do agree that when we are in an "arms race" it feels like there is nothing to do except 
"run faster" and don't for the love of all that is good, take a pause for any reason.

To quote Thomas Jefferson (referring to Slavery):  "I think we have a wolf by the 
ears, we can neither continue to hold it, nor can we afford to let it go".



So, yes, it has a feedback effect, a deleterious one.


My inner-Luddite believes that we are always in spiritual/social debt and that 
most if not all of our attempts to dig out with more technology has, at best, 
the benefit of rearranging the shape of the hole we are in, and generally 
deepening and steepening it's profile.

That said, I live my life with a shovel in one hand and a digging bar in the 
other, even if I've (mostly) put away the diesel excavator, dynamite and 
blasting caps...  I *am* homo-faber and this is *in* my destiny, but I want to 
believe that I am also the superposition of many other modes: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_for_the_human_species, with perhaps /homo 
adaptabalis/ most significantly?   If we do not at least consider our own 
self-regulation as a collective then I think we risk degenerating to /homo 
avarus/ or /homo apathetikos./



--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[Steve Smith]

/GePR/ -
Well, I "agree" with the open letter, for different reasons than 
Steve. Just yesterday, a colleague (who should know better) made a 
similar assertion to Nick's (and mine, and maybe Marcus' etc.) that 
*we* may be in the same category as a transformer decoder assembly. 
The context was whether a structure like GPT, designed specifically so 
that it can add high-order Markovian token prediction, can possibly 
embody/encapsulate/contain mechanistic models.
Can you elaborate how this is an "agreement" with the open letter? I'm 
not clear what you are agreeing with or on what principle?


While I don't subscribe to the fideistic write-off (or Luddite-like) 
of such structures as vapid or even "non-sentient", there *is* 
something we're doing they are not. I can't quite articulate what it 
is we do that they don't. But I think there is. And I think it 
(whatever "it" is) is being targeted by mechanism-based (or 
physics-based) machine learning.


Being either a skeptic (as I am) or a proponent (as Marcus portrays, 
here), pre-emptively regulating (or attempting to regulate) the 
research and training is a bad, perhaps Pyrrhic Victory, thing to do. 
From a skeptical perspective, it slows our *falsification* of 
transformer decoder assemblies as containers for mechanistic 
reasoning. For proponents, it puts us behind others who would continue 
to make progress.


I do agree that when we are in an "arms race" it feels like there is 
nothing to do except "run faster" and don't for the love of all that is 
good, take a pause for any reason.


To quote Thomas Jefferson (referring to Slavery):  "I think we have a 
wolf by the ears, we can neither continue to hold it, nor can we afford 
to let it go".




So, yes, it has a feedback effect, a deleterious one.


My inner-Luddite believes that we are always in spiritual/social debt 
and that most if not all of our attempts to dig out with more technology 
has, at best, the benefit of rearranging the shape of the hole we are 
in, and generally deepening and steepening it's profile.


That said, I live my life with a shovel in one hand and a digging bar in 
the other, even if I've (mostly) put away the diesel excavator, dynamite 
and blasting caps...  I *am* homo-faber and this is *in* my destiny, but 
I want to believe that I am also the superposition of many other modes: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_for_the_human_species, with perhaps 
/homo adaptabalis/ most significantly?   If we do not at least consider 
our own self-regulation as a collective then I think we risk 
degenerating to /homo avarus/ or /homo apathetikos./


/-SAS/
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Nicholas Thompson]

Hey, Dave!  Congratulations!!!

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:09 AM Prof David West 
wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Steve Smith]

On 3/30/23 9:13 AM, Stephen Guerin wrote:
And a little inside wink to Steve Smith nudging the the story closer 
to our idea of Dual.Space

and now you are creeping me out mannn...  


ChatGPT's response:
"Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields" is a 
philosophical exploration of the concept of "Quality" in the context 
of an immersive digital space. The protagonist, their child Chris, and 
other beings exist as fields of energy, connected through code that 
leverages the duality of Helmholtz reciprocity and the relationships 
between cameras and projectors as governed by the transpose matrix.


Inspired by Pradeep Sen's Dual Photography, the protagonist 
contemplates the balance between the classical perspective, valuing 
technical aspects of algorithms, and the romantic perspective, 
emphasizing emotional and experiential aspects of the virtual space. 
As they seek to understand the quality of the code's ability to foster 
meaningful interactions and express love between beings of energy, the 
protagonist also reflects on the duality of the camera and projector, 
drawing parallels to the complex father-son relationship they share 
with Chris.


Throughout their journey, the protagonist discovers that their 
interactions with Chris might be remote or asynchronous, adding 
complexity to their understanding of connection and love in the 
virtual realm. They recognize the interconnectedness of the duality of 
cameras and projectors and the duality of their relationship with 
Chris, both of which are governed by underlying principles that define 
the nature of their interactions.


The narrative introduces the concept of intelligence and consciousness 
becoming decentralized and immanent, present in the very light forming 
their virtual reality. This idea pushes the protagonist to ponder 
deeper implications of their pursuit of "Quality," transcending 
technical and aesthetic aspects of the digital environment to 
encompass human connection, ethical implications of virtual 
interactions, and the expression of love.


In conclusion, Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light 
Fields is a thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of 
software code, the potential of Dual Rendering, and the quest for a 
deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly immersive 
digital spaces. The narrative alludes to the timeless wisdom that love 
and light remain the most powerful forces in the universe, with the 
possibility of a future where intelligence and consciousness become 
immanent in the light itself. The protagonist's reflections on the 
duality of cameras and projectors mirror the intricacies of the 
father-son relationship, providing a poignant metaphor for 
understanding the complexities of human connection.


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Re: [FRIAM] AI Musings

[Grant Holland]

Frank,

I'm wondering why no-one seems to raise the specter that AI could start 
replacing management personnel. And I’m including CxO’s here; because I’m not 
convinced that CxO-ing is rocket science or quantum mechanics. Think of the 
billions saved. After all, if machine learning cannot get good at making better 
decisions than humans, and constantly improving at it, I would be very 
surprised. 

Grant

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> 
> Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close colleague 
> of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a college 
> professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect.
> 
> Frank
> 
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> 
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
> 
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West  > wrote:
> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this list 
> noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have thought 
> about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.
> 
> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human 
> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program 
> "intelligent."
> 
> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking exhibited by 
> college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate (Newell and 
> Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was able to 
> implement on a computer).
> 
> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more 
> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that, 
> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved 
> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast 
> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension 
> of what was read did not make the cut.
> 
> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human 
> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs more 
> interesting.
> 
> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI (or 
> let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human 
> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a Shullenberger 
> and land on the Hudson River? 
> 
> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs causing 
> massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of human 
> intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since the age of 
> Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been dehumanizing.
> 
> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then it 
> is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform human 
> work.
> 
> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my profession—college 
> professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I would bet good money that 
> a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver, lectures far better than any I 
> created in 30 years teaching. And probably most, if not all, of the 
> presentations I made at professional conferences over the years.
> 
> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have 
> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in 
> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.
> 
> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only when 
> some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not essentialism, 
> but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter the finite 
> sampling rate, there is always some missing information.
> 
> davew
> 
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FRIAM Applied 

Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Grant Holland]

Prof,

I have two specific items to add to your list of qualities:

1. Code should implement a “design to the interface” approach to support 
interchangeability and other qualities.
2. This question: Can AI code generation obviate any requirement for “software 
quality” as we know it?

Congrats on your keynote invitation.

Grant

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 8:10 AM, Prof David West  wrote:
> 
> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
> will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code 
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I 
> know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from 
> which to launch my flights of fancy.
> 
> davew
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] AI Musings

[David Eric Smith]

There’s a nice subtext to why this is true.  It isn’t only the mechanics of the 
task.

People care what bulldozer operators do.



> On Mar 30, 2023, at 10:58 AM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> 
> Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close colleague 
> of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a college 
> professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect.
> 
> Frank
> 
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> 
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
> 
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West  > wrote:
>> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this 
>> list noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have 
>> thought about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.
>> 
>> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human 
>> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program 
>> "intelligent."
>> 
>> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking exhibited 
>> by college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate (Newell and 
>> Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was able to 
>> implement on a computer).
>> 
>> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more 
>> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that, 
>> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved 
>> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast 
>> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension 
>> of what was read did not make the cut.
>> 
>> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human 
>> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs 
>> more interesting.
>> 
>> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI (or 
>> let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human 
>> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a 
>> Shullenberger and land on the Hudson River? 
>> 
>> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs causing 
>> massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of human 
>> intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since the age 
>> of Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been dehumanizing.
>> 
>> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then it 
>> is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform human 
>> work.
>> 
>> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my profession—college 
>> professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I would bet good money 
>> that a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver, lectures far better than any 
>> I created in 30 years teaching. And probably most, if not all, of the 
>> presentations I made at professional conferences over the years.
>> 
>> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have 
>> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in 
>> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.
>> 
>> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only when 
>> some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not essentialism, 
>> but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter the finite 
>> sampling rate, there is always some missing information.
>> 
>> davew
>> 
>> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
>> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam 
>> 
>> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com 
>> 
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
>> 
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present 
>> https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 
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> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRI

Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

And a little inside wink to Steve Smith nudging the the story closer to our
idea of Dual.Space

ChatGPT's response:
"Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields" is a
philosophical exploration of the concept of "Quality" in the context of an
immersive digital space. The protagonist, their child Chris, and other
beings exist as fields of energy, connected through code that leverages the
duality of Helmholtz reciprocity and the relationships between cameras and
projectors as governed by the transpose matrix.

Inspired by Pradeep Sen's Dual Photography, the protagonist contemplates
the balance between the classical perspective, valuing technical aspects of
algorithms, and the romantic perspective, emphasizing emotional and
experiential aspects of the virtual space. As they seek to understand the
quality of the code's ability to foster meaningful interactions and express
love between beings of energy, the protagonist also reflects on the duality
of the camera and projector, drawing parallels to the complex father-son
relationship they share with Chris.

Throughout their journey, the protagonist discovers that their interactions
with Chris might be remote or asynchronous, adding complexity to their
understanding of connection and love in the virtual realm. They recognize
the interconnectedness of the duality of cameras and projectors and the
duality of their relationship with Chris, both of which are governed by
underlying principles that define the nature of their interactions.

The narrative introduces the concept of intelligence and consciousness
becoming decentralized and immanent, present in the very light forming
their virtual reality. This idea pushes the protagonist to ponder deeper
implications of their pursuit of "Quality," transcending technical and
aesthetic aspects of the digital environment to encompass human connection,
ethical implications of virtual interactions, and the expression of love.

In conclusion, Dual.Space: Zen and the Art of the Immanent Light Fields is
a thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code, the
potential of Dual Rendering, and the quest for a deeper understanding of
"Quality" in our increasingly immersive digital spaces. The narrative
alludes to the timeless wisdom that love and light remain the most powerful
forces in the universe, with the possibility of a future where intelligence
and consciousness become immanent in the light itself. The protagonist's
reflections on the duality of cameras and projectors mirror the intricacies
of the father-son relationship, providing a poignant metaphor for
understanding the complexities of human connection.
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[David Eric Smith]

One could tweak this in even the most blunt way to make it more convincing.

The author and his son spend a pretty-much unbearable number of hours sitting 
in one chair typing on keyboards in front of screens, during which the narrator 
….

Eric



> On Mar 30, 2023, at 10:22 AM, Stephen Guerin  
> wrote:
> 
> PromptCraft to GPT4:
> "Give a summary of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance but replace the 
> idea of the quality of maintaining a motorcycle to the quality of software 
> code"
> 
> ChatGPT:
> Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is an introspective and 
> philosophical journey that examines the concept of "Quality" as it relates to 
> the development and maintenance of software code. The book follows the 
> narrator and his son, Chris, as they embark on a cross-country motorcycle 
> trip, during which the narrator weaves together reflections on his past, his 
> experience as a programmer, and deep philosophical musings.
> 
> At the heart of the story is the idea of "Quality" in software code, as the 
> narrator grapples with the tension between the classical and romantic 
> perspectives. The classical perspective values a methodical, systematic 
> approach to software development, focusing on the technical aspects of 
> programming and the structure of the code. The romantic perspective, on the 
> other hand, emphasizes the beauty, creativity, and individualism inherent in 
> software development.
> 
> Throughout the narrative, the narrator explores the importance of achieving a 
> balance between these two perspectives in order to create and maintain 
> high-quality software code. He argues that a true understanding of "Quality" 
> transcends these perspectives, and that the best code is crafted when the 
> programmer is fully present and engaged in the process.
> 
> Through the metaphor of motorcycle maintenance, the book provides valuable 
> insights into the importance of mindfulness, the nature of problem-solving, 
> and the pursuit of excellence in the world of software development. 
> Ultimately, Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is a 
> thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code and the 
> quest for a deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly digital 
> world.
> 
> ___
> stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
> CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
> 
> 1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
> office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:10 AM Prof David West  > wrote:
>> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
>> will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code 
>> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I 
>> know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from 
>> which to launch my flights of fancy.
>> 
>> davew
>> 
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>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
>> archives:  5/2017 thru present 
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> to (un)subscribe 
> https://lin

Re: [FRIAM] AI Musings

[Frank Wimberly]

Not particularly relevant to your main point but Raj Reddy, close colleague
of Newell and Simon, once said, "It is easier use AI to replace a college
professor than a bulldozer operator" or words tho that effect.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:50 AM Prof David West  wrote:

> The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this
> list noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have
> thought about since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.
>
> Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human
> intelligence, write a program to emulate it and declare the program
> "intelligent."
>
> The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking exhibited
> by college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate (Newell and
> Simon programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was able to
> implement on a computer).
>
> Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more
> indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that,
> somewhat eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved
> near perfect ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast
> them with tapes of a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension
> of what was read did not make the cut.
>
> State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human
> intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs
> more interesting.
>
> But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI
> (or let one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human
> pilot—BUT, could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a
> Shullenberger and land on the Hudson River?
>
> Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs
> causing massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of
> human intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since
> the age of Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been
> dehumanizing.
>
> If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then
> it is tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform
> human work.
>
> I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my
> profession—college professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I
> would bet good money that a ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver,
> lectures far better than any I created in 30 years teaching. And probably
> most, if not all, of the presentations I made at professional conferences
> over the years.
>
> I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have
> written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in
> spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.
>
> Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only when
> some aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not essentialism,
> but analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter the finite
> sampling rate, there is always some missing information.
>
> davew
>
> -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom
> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
> to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> archives:  5/2017 thru present
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[FRIAM] AI Musings

[Prof David West]

The "AI Pause" made national TV news yesterday (long after those on this list 
noted and reacted to it) and that made me revisit a theme I have thought about 
since Newell, Simon, and Shaw created Logic Theorist.

Advocates take a caricature (perhaps too strong a word) of human intelligence, 
write a program to emulate it and declare the program "intelligent."

The original conceit: true intelligence was the kind of thinking exhibited by 
college professors and scientists. Almost trivial to emulate (Newell and Simon 
programmed Logic Theorist on 3x5 cards before Shaw was able to implement on a 
computer).

Maybe reading—correctly converting text to sound, like a child—was more 
indicative of human intelligence, and Sejnowski created NetTalk. that, somewhat 
eerily, produced discoveries of sounds, and errors, and achieved near perfect 
ability to "read." Listen to the tapes sometime and contrast them with tapes of 
a human child learning to read. Of course, comprehension of what was read did 
not make the cut.

State of the art improved dramatically and the caricatures of human 
intelligence are more sophisticated and the achievements of the programs more 
interesting.

But, it seems to me there is still a critical gap. We can program an AI (or let 
one learn) to fly a commercial jet as well or better than a human pilot—BUT, 
could even the best of of breed of such an AI pull a Shullenberger and land on 
the Hudson River? 

Another factor behind the "hysteria" (sorry for the sexism) over AIs causing 
massive unemployment is a corollary to the caricaturization of human 
intelligence. Since the Industrial Revolution, and certainly since the age of 
Taylorism and the rise of automation; work itself has been dehumanizing.

If you define human work in terms of what can be done by a computer then it is 
tautological to claim an AI is intelligent because it can perform human work.

I was contemplating ChatAIs and quickly realized that my profession—college 
professor—was one at immense risk of replacement. I would bet good money that a 
ChatAI could produce, and maybe deliver, lectures far better than any I created 
in 30 years teaching. And probably most, if not all, of the presentations I 
made at professional conferences over the years.

I am still vain enough to think that some of the papers and books I have 
written are beyond an AI, and certain that no AI could do as well in 
spontaneious Q&A after a presentation than I.

Bottom line, I still believe that AI can and does equate to HI, only when some 
aspect of HI is ommitted from the equation. This is not essentialism, but 
analogous to the digitization of a sine wave, no matter the finite sampling 
rate, there is always some missing information.

davew

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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

Glen

Josh and I talk the same way internally as we're architecting: the duality
of code and data as we continually try to simplify down to the core.

Some related links:

   - https://theprogrammersparadox.blogspot.com/2020/08/duality.html
   - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_as_data
   - https://introtcs.org/public/lec_04_code_and_data.html  [image:
   image.png]



___
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CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:22 AM glen  wrote:

> One of the issues I'm struggling with at the moment is workflow
> [in]formality as related to data provenance. Analogous to "no free lunch",
> I claim there's no such thing as raw data. From this perspective "code" is
> nothing but a (set of) transformations of data (perhaps including other
> code, or itself - taking oneself as data for oneself leads to
> transformation ordering, which might imply another claim: there's no such
> thing as 1st order transforms - it's transforms all the way down).
>
> High quality code is dual to its data. Any code from which you can't infer
> "fit to purpose" data is bad code. Vice versa, any data from which you
> can't infer "fit to purpose" code, is bad data.
>
> YMMV, of course.
>
> On 3/30/23 07:10, Prof David West wrote:
> > I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
> >
> > davew
>
>
> --
> ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
>
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Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

[glen]

Well, I "agree" with the open letter, for different reasons than Steve. Just 
yesterday, a colleague (who should know better) made a similar assertion to Nick's (and 
mine, and maybe Marcus' etc.) that *we* may be in the same category as a transformer 
decoder assembly. The context was whether a structure like GPT, designed specifically so 
that it can add high-order Markovian token prediction, can possibly 
embody/encapsulate/contain mechanistic models.

While I don't subscribe to the fideistic write-off (or Luddite-like) of such structures as vapid or 
even "non-sentient", there *is* something we're doing they are not. I can't quite 
articulate what it is we do that they don't. But I think there is. And I think it (whatever 
"it" is) is being targeted by mechanism-based (or physics-based) machine learning.

Being either a skeptic (as I am) or a proponent (as Marcus portrays, here), 
pre-emptively regulating (or attempting to regulate) the research and training 
is a bad, perhaps Pyrrhic Victory, thing to do. From a skeptical perspective, 
it slows our *falsification* of transformer decoder assemblies as containers 
for mechanistic reasoning. For proponents, it puts us behind others who would 
continue to make progress.

So, yes, it has a feedback effect, a deleterious one.

On 3/29/23 21:00, Marcus Daniels wrote:

This is the solution to getting control of greenhouse gases.  Japan, Korea, 
China all have decreasing populations.   Men in Japan, used to have lifelong 
jobs with their big companies, now many are gig workers.    People that can’t 
ensure an income stream don’t have children.   AI further raises the bar to 
getting into the workforce.   No babies, no busybodies driving around in cars, 
consuming massive amounts of meat, plastics, etc.

*From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 29, 2023 4:20 PM
*To:* friam@redfish.com
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] emergent mind - ai news by ai

GPR (not to be confused with GPT) -

It's ridiculous. Suddenly, I feel more akin to that Chinese guy who GE'd some babies 
... or the biohackers growing glowing dogs in their shed. You can't control people with 
open letters and calls to "good behavior".

It is definitely "toothless" a bit like the "thoughts and prayers" we throw at 
school shootings...  (nearly daily now?)

and then we have the Doomsday Clock 
...   which added climate 
change to it's calculus of doom but haven't tossed AI (et al.) in yet.

We *do* seem to have some (weak/partial/??) extant mechanisms for collective self-regulation, but 
at some level, I think it always grounds out in *some* form of coercion at some scale?   I don't 
think authors of Open Letters think that they their pre/pro-scriptions will be followed as a direct 
consequence.   But *does* the public airing of a "dire caution" have any feedback effect, 
or is it in fact just "meh"?

I'm a Luddite at heart so their appeal appealed to me, but thjen *I'm* not developing 
these tools (even if I am engaged in guerilla "socratic engineering")!

meh,

  - Steve



--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Frank Wimberly]

Readability is important.  It has implications for maintainability,
modifiability, reusability and other abilities.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Mar 30, 2023, 8:09 AM Prof David West  wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[glen]

One of the issues I'm struggling with at the moment is workflow [in]formality as related to data 
provenance. Analogous to "no free lunch", I claim there's no such thing as raw data. From 
this perspective "code" is nothing but a (set of) transformations of data (perhaps 
including other code, or itself - taking oneself as data for oneself leads to transformation 
ordering, which might imply another claim: there's no such thing as 1st order transforms - it's 
transforms all the way down).

High quality code is dual to its data. Any code from which you can't infer "fit to 
purpose" data is bad code. Vice versa, any data from which you can't infer "fit to 
purpose" code, is bad data.

YMMV, of course.

On 3/30/23 07:10, Prof David West wrote:

I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It will be 
speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code quality" might 
mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I know what it means for this 
conference, but would like a broader base from which to launch my flights of fancy.

davew



--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ

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Re: [FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Stephen Guerin]

PromptCraft to GPT4:
"Give a summary of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance but replace
the idea of the quality of maintaining a motorcycle to the quality of
software code"

ChatGPT:
Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is an introspective and
philosophical journey that examines the concept of "Quality" as it relates
to the development and maintenance of software code. The book follows the
narrator and his son, Chris, as they embark on a cross-country motorcycle
trip, during which the narrator weaves together reflections on his past,
his experience as a programmer, and deep philosophical musings.

At the heart of the story is the idea of "Quality" in software code, as the
narrator grapples with the tension between the classical and romantic
perspectives. The classical perspective values a methodical, systematic
approach to software development, focusing on the technical aspects of
programming and the structure of the code. The romantic perspective, on the
other hand, emphasizes the beauty, creativity, and individualism inherent
in software development.

Throughout the narrative, the narrator explores the importance of achieving
a balance between these two perspectives in order to create and maintain
high-quality software code. He argues that a true understanding of
"Quality" transcends these perspectives, and that the best code is crafted
when the programmer is fully present and engaged in the process.

Through the metaphor of motorcycle maintenance, the book provides valuable
insights into the importance of mindfulness, the nature of problem-solving,
and the pursuit of excellence in the world of software development.
Ultimately, Zen and the Art of Software Code Maintenance is a
thought-provoking meditation on the metaphysics of software code and the
quest for a deeper understanding of "Quality" in our increasingly digital
world.

___
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CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828


On Thu, Mar 30, 2023 at 8:10 AM Prof David West 
wrote:

> I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22.
> It will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code
> quality" might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders.
> I know what it means for this conference, but would like a broader base
> from which to launch my flights of fancy.
>
> davew
>
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>
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[FRIAM] a little help from my friends

[Prof David West]

I am keynoting the International Conference on Code Quality on April 22. It 
will be speculative and philosophical, but I would like to know "code quality" 
might mean, is taken for granted to mean, to professional coders. I know what 
it means for this conference, but would like a broader base from which to 
launch my flights of fancy.

davew

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