[FRIAM] DENT 2024
Perhaps of interest. https://dentthefuture.com/conference?fbclid=IwAR0AIIG0CZt0w8nD6jXlSlw1aMoATYjjX9rmX65KeFePkAVyrJisQMcA48Q_aem_WUUh1ck8jnql5DoMfiYr8Q === Tom Johnson Inst. for Analytic Journalism Santa Fe, New Mexico 505-577-6482 === -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
Dan Gupta responds: _ Hello Nick, I prefer to respond from a vector space where I imagine you as frocked... ### Understanding Patterns in Nature: The Third Way Let's start with something familiar: the striking stripes on a zebra. These patterns, along with many others in nature, arise through fascinating processes. Traditionally, explanations include intelligent design and natural selection, but there's a compelling third way—far-from-equilibrium (FFE) dynamics. ### Patterns and Symmetry Breaking Patterns, like zebra stripes, often display symmetries, but they emerge through symmetry breaking. This means that a uniform, undifferentiated field transitions into a structured form. For example, zebra stripes form from a uniform distribution of skin cells that differentiate into distinct black and white patterns. ### FFE Dynamics: A New Perspective FFE dynamics explains how patterns emerge when systems are driven away from equilibrium by external forces. This approach is applicable across various fields, including biology, physics, and meteorology. Let's break it down with some examples, including the volcanic dikes you're curious about. 1. **Turing Patterns in Biology:** - Alan Turing proposed that chemical reactions and diffusion can lead to stable patterns like zebra stripes. These patterns arise from a uniform chemical distribution breaking into distinct structures. 2. **Volcanic Rifts and Dikes:** - Magma from deep within the Earth rises through cracks in the crust, forming volcanic dikes—linear features that break the symmetry of the surrounding rock. Now, let's address your specific question about why these dikes are linear. ### Explaining Volcanic Dikes Imagine the Earth's crust as a series of horizontal layers. When magma (molten rock) pushes upwards, it seeks the path of least resistance, exploiting pre-existing weaknesses and fractures. Here's why these fractures often form straight lines: - **Micro Cracks and Stress Fields:** - When stress is applied to a solid material, like pushing on a layer of ice, it doesn't distribute evenly. Instead, stress concentrates at points of weakness, causing micro cracks to form. If the stress continues, these cracks propagate. - The first two breaks align because the stress is highest at the tips of existing cracks. When a new crack forms, it follows the direction of least resistance—often in a straight line with the previous cracks. - **Order Parameters and Phase Transitions:** - In FFE dynamics, variables like stress (order parameters) determine the system's macroscopic state. As the stress increases, the system undergoes a phase transition, breaking symmetry to form an ordered structure (a linear dike). ### Addressing Your Ice Example Consider pressing down on a thin layer of ice with your hand. The initial cracks form where the stress is highest. As you continue pressing, each new crack propagates from the tips of the existing cracks, often forming a straight line. This happens because the stress field is now guiding the cracks to follow the path of least resistance, maintaining the linear alignment. ### Encouragement to Study FFE Dynamics Studying FFE dynamics reveals the profound and elegant ways nature organizes itself. It shows that complex patterns can arise from simple rules without needing an intelligent designer, offering alternative explanations for patterns in biology and behavior that were traditionally attributed to natural selection. ### Conclusion FFE dynamics provides a powerful framework for understanding the rich tapestry of patterns in nature. It bridges the gap between simple physical laws and the intricate beauty we observe. As you delve into this field, consider exploring this third way to uncover the mysteries of natural patterns and the processes that drive their formation. Best, Eric CEO Founder, Simtable.com stephen.gue...@simtable.com Harvard Visualization Research and Teaching Lab stephengue...@fas.harvard.edu mobile: (505)577-5828 On Sun, Jun 23, 2024, 8:23 AM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > ...he lives in the Gallisteo Basin. > > I am beginning to think that nature does not abhor straight lines quite as > much as I first thought. The San Andreas Fault is pretty straight for a > thousand miles. Cloud streets.Given the right conditions of sheer, > etc., thunderstorms can form straight lines. And, of course, sediment > boundaries and coastlines facing a flow, as in FL. Still, I think it > makes sense not to take them for granted. > > If anybody has the time, I would love to have Eric's physical explanation > put into language that is more friendly to former defrocked former english > majors. I get the intrusion bit. That's fine. Where I stumble is where I > seem to detect an assumption that the forces them selves that are exerted > from below are linear. Standing on my huge pile of ignorance, here, I > would assume that they
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
uh, Sorvig. Where have you gone, Kim, when I need someone to pronounce "Yggdrasil. On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Thank you, Eric. > > I keep trying to engage Kim Sordahl in this conversation because he has an > architectual theory concerning the meaning of straight lines in nature AND > > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 6:57 AM Santafe wrote: > >> A few km or even tens of km does not seem long to me on geological scales. >> >> If we have slowly formed crustal rock, it could be fairly uniform. Then >> if there is a bending stress on large scales from upwelling, the >> least-disruption fracture would be a long straightish crack along the the >> line perpendicular to the bending moment. Also, the material that goes >> into that crack is presumably pretty liquid. So while it is okay to call >> it “rock pressing up”, I think the image of liquid squeezing into a >> fracture, shoving apart the sides, and putting maximal stress on the apex >> which extends the fracture further, is more like the picture. >> >> And in whatever page somebody sent, they say the fracture that forms the >> Galisteo dike shows evidence of having formed in that way, by chaining one >> extension onto another, along the stress line where the faces are being >> pushed apart. >> >> When this happens in the sea bottom, seismometers can listen to what >> sounds like a zipping sound, as the crack from some new upwelling extends >> and extends. I forget if it was a review by Karen von Damm or by Deb >> Kelley in which I learned that. They have some name for it, which I am >> forgetting. >> >> Of course, continental crustal rock is not the same as seabed basalts >> (which are probably much more uniform), but even so, these are geologically >> fairly small features we are talking about. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> > On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Nicholas Thompson < >> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Yes, Barry. I heard you but I had the bit in my teeth. I apologize. >> Your point seemed, for me, to beg the question I was obsessed with at the >> moment. Where did a straight line of such scale come from? Now, I can see >> why a radar echo might be a straight line, but why a line of dirt? What >> geological process produces linear dikes? I can under why a sediment >> layers might be horizontal layers and I guess maybe, I can imagine that >> the seam between two layers might get rotated ninety degrees and then >> crack and then I imagine igneous rock might press up through that seam. Is >> that the sort oft thing you had in mind? >> > >> > N >> > >> > Nick >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 5:38 PM Barry MacKichan < >> barry.mackic...@mackichan.com> wrote: >> > Several times on the Thuram Zoom call, I asked “Do you mean that >> volcanic dike?” but I always seemed to say it just as someone else started >> up. >> > >> > I have two memories about it. >> > >> > • The president of SAR conjured up the image of 3,000 Comanches >> coming through the gap (Comanche Gap) as they came to Santa Fe in the 1770s >> to agree to the truce with New Mexico — the truce that I believe enabled >> the Spanish to hang on for the next 50 years in NM. The image has stuck >> with me. >> > >> > • I thought it would be a great place to find petroglyphs, and >> indeed it is. The density of the “No trespassing” signs along the road >> increases as the square of the inverse of the distance from the point where >> the road crosses the dike. They make it clear exactly where you should not >> trespass. >> > >> > —Barry >> > >> > On 21 Jun 2024, at 11:18, Stephen Guerin wrote: >> > >> > Research last night on historical geologic maps got the name of that as >> the "Galisteo Dike". composition and description in attachment. There is >> one further with as well. Also known as the Creston or Comanche Gap >> > >> > https://galisteo.nmarchaeology.org/sites/creston.html >> > >> > >> > Basic formation given this description (chatGPT): >> > >> > >> > The Galisteo Dike is a geological formation characterized by its >> composition and physical properties, indicating its formation through >> volcanic activity. Here’s a detailed interpretation of its formation based >> on the description provided: >> > >> > 1. **Composition Analysis**: The Galisteo Dike consists of >> micro-monzonite, a fine-grained igneous rock. It contains a mixture of >> minerals including plagioclase, potassium feldspar, titan-augite, >> titaniferous biotite, apatite, and opaque grains in a glass groundmass. >> This mineral composition suggests that the dike formed from magma that >> cooled relatively quickly, preventing the formation of large crystals. >> > >> > 2. **Physical Description**: The dike appears as a dark gray, >> fine-grained rock with a salt and pepper texture. It weathers to dark brown >> or grayish brown and forms a wall-like rampart. This implies that the dike >> is resistant to weathering and erosion, standing out in the landscape as a >> prominent
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
And another regional example of interest: https://spanishpeakscountry.com/the-great-dikes/ The text suggests "igneous intrusions into sandstone" and "sandstone eroded away to expose the igneous intrusions". I'm familiar with igneous "plugs" such as my nearby Black Mesa and the famous Devils Tower in WY. I believe the characteristic "basaltic piles" I see in other formations in my area imply 'igneous intrusion" rather than "igneous flow" reflecting the way such things cool. The Spanish peaks dikes are radial from the peaks reminiscent of a "Mordor-like landscape" with cracks radiating from the mountain and lava rising up out of it. Thanks to the other curious-obsessives here to help push me from decades of "wondering" to feeling at least a little more informed about the geology (and weather). Nick, I imagine the Galisteo Dike is similar to the Shiprock Dikes.-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
...he lives in the Gallisteo Basin. I am beginning to think that nature does not abhor straight lines quite as much as I first thought. The San Andreas Fault is pretty straight for a thousand miles. Cloud streets.Given the right conditions of sheer, etc., thunderstorms can form straight lines. And, of course, sediment boundaries and coastlines facing a flow, as in FL. Still, I think it makes sense not to take them for granted. If anybody has the time, I would love to have Eric's physical explanation put into language that is more friendly to former defrocked former english majors. I get the intrusion bit. That's fine. Where I stumble is where I seem to detect an assumption that the forces them selves that are exerted from below are linear. Standing on my huge pile of ignorance, here, I would assume that they are bubbles and I cannot see how a bubble pushing up on a sedimentary layer would exert a straightline force on it. Thinking in micro cracks for a sedond: the first two breaks form a straight line for sure. But let's say I am pressing down on a thin layer of ice with the palm of my hand. What, in DFEM terms is the reason that the third break should be in line with the other two. This is where Doug Roberts arises from his grave and dope slaps me with his mighty paws! Thanks for your patience, all. N On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 10:06 AM Nicholas Thompson wrote: > Thank you, Eric. > > I keep trying to engage Kim Sordahl in this conversation because he has an > architectual theory concerning the meaning of straight lines in nature AND > > On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 6:57 AM Santafe wrote: > >> A few km or even tens of km does not seem long to me on geological scales. >> >> If we have slowly formed crustal rock, it could be fairly uniform. Then >> if there is a bending stress on large scales from upwelling, the >> least-disruption fracture would be a long straightish crack along the the >> line perpendicular to the bending moment. Also, the material that goes >> into that crack is presumably pretty liquid. So while it is okay to call >> it “rock pressing up”, I think the image of liquid squeezing into a >> fracture, shoving apart the sides, and putting maximal stress on the apex >> which extends the fracture further, is more like the picture. >> >> And in whatever page somebody sent, they say the fracture that forms the >> Galisteo dike shows evidence of having formed in that way, by chaining one >> extension onto another, along the stress line where the faces are being >> pushed apart. >> >> When this happens in the sea bottom, seismometers can listen to what >> sounds like a zipping sound, as the crack from some new upwelling extends >> and extends. I forget if it was a review by Karen von Damm or by Deb >> Kelley in which I learned that. They have some name for it, which I am >> forgetting. >> >> Of course, continental crustal rock is not the same as seabed basalts >> (which are probably much more uniform), but even so, these are geologically >> fairly small features we are talking about. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> > On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Nicholas Thompson < >> thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Yes, Barry. I heard you but I had the bit in my teeth. I apologize. >> Your point seemed, for me, to beg the question I was obsessed with at the >> moment. Where did a straight line of such scale come from? Now, I can see >> why a radar echo might be a straight line, but why a line of dirt? What >> geological process produces linear dikes? I can under why a sediment >> layers might be horizontal layers and I guess maybe, I can imagine that >> the seam between two layers might get rotated ninety degrees and then >> crack and then I imagine igneous rock might press up through that seam. Is >> that the sort oft thing you had in mind? >> > >> > N >> > >> > Nick >> > >> > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 5:38 PM Barry MacKichan < >> barry.mackic...@mackichan.com> wrote: >> > Several times on the Thuram Zoom call, I asked “Do you mean that >> volcanic dike?” but I always seemed to say it just as someone else started >> up. >> > >> > I have two memories about it. >> > >> > • The president of SAR conjured up the image of 3,000 Comanches >> coming through the gap (Comanche Gap) as they came to Santa Fe in the 1770s >> to agree to the truce with New Mexico — the truce that I believe enabled >> the Spanish to hang on for the next 50 years in NM. The image has stuck >> with me. >> > >> > • I thought it would be a great place to find petroglyphs, and >> indeed it is. The density of the “No trespassing” signs along the road >> increases as the square of the inverse of the distance from the point where >> the road crosses the dike. They make it clear exactly where you should not >> trespass. >> > >> > —Barry >> > >> > On 21 Jun 2024, at 11:18, Stephen Guerin wrote: >> > >> > Research last night on historical geologic maps got the name of that as >> the "Galisteo Dike".
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
Thank you, Eric. I keep trying to engage Kim Sordahl in this conversation because he has an architectual theory concerning the meaning of straight lines in nature AND On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 6:57 AM Santafe wrote: > A few km or even tens of km does not seem long to me on geological scales. > > If we have slowly formed crustal rock, it could be fairly uniform. Then > if there is a bending stress on large scales from upwelling, the > least-disruption fracture would be a long straightish crack along the the > line perpendicular to the bending moment. Also, the material that goes > into that crack is presumably pretty liquid. So while it is okay to call > it “rock pressing up”, I think the image of liquid squeezing into a > fracture, shoving apart the sides, and putting maximal stress on the apex > which extends the fracture further, is more like the picture. > > And in whatever page somebody sent, they say the fracture that forms the > Galisteo dike shows evidence of having formed in that way, by chaining one > extension onto another, along the stress line where the faces are being > pushed apart. > > When this happens in the sea bottom, seismometers can listen to what > sounds like a zipping sound, as the crack from some new upwelling extends > and extends. I forget if it was a review by Karen von Damm or by Deb > Kelley in which I learned that. They have some name for it, which I am > forgetting. > > Of course, continental crustal rock is not the same as seabed basalts > (which are probably much more uniform), but even so, these are geologically > fairly small features we are talking about. > > Eric > > > > > On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > > > > Yes, Barry. I heard you but I had the bit in my teeth. I apologize. > Your point seemed, for me, to beg the question I was obsessed with at the > moment. Where did a straight line of such scale come from? Now, I can see > why a radar echo might be a straight line, but why a line of dirt? What > geological process produces linear dikes? I can under why a sediment > layers might be horizontal layers and I guess maybe, I can imagine that > the seam between two layers might get rotated ninety degrees and then > crack and then I imagine igneous rock might press up through that seam. Is > that the sort oft thing you had in mind? > > > > N > > > > Nick > > > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 5:38 PM Barry MacKichan < > barry.mackic...@mackichan.com> wrote: > > Several times on the Thuram Zoom call, I asked “Do you mean that > volcanic dike?” but I always seemed to say it just as someone else started > up. > > > > I have two memories about it. > > > > • The president of SAR conjured up the image of 3,000 Comanches > coming through the gap (Comanche Gap) as they came to Santa Fe in the 1770s > to agree to the truce with New Mexico — the truce that I believe enabled > the Spanish to hang on for the next 50 years in NM. The image has stuck > with me. > > > > • I thought it would be a great place to find petroglyphs, and > indeed it is. The density of the “No trespassing” signs along the road > increases as the square of the inverse of the distance from the point where > the road crosses the dike. They make it clear exactly where you should not > trespass. > > > > —Barry > > > > On 21 Jun 2024, at 11:18, Stephen Guerin wrote: > > > > Research last night on historical geologic maps got the name of that as > the "Galisteo Dike". composition and description in attachment. There is > one further with as well. Also known as the Creston or Comanche Gap > > > > https://galisteo.nmarchaeology.org/sites/creston.html > > > > > > Basic formation given this description (chatGPT): > > > > > > The Galisteo Dike is a geological formation characterized by its > composition and physical properties, indicating its formation through > volcanic activity. Here’s a detailed interpretation of its formation based > on the description provided: > > > > 1. **Composition Analysis**: The Galisteo Dike consists of > micro-monzonite, a fine-grained igneous rock. It contains a mixture of > minerals including plagioclase, potassium feldspar, titan-augite, > titaniferous biotite, apatite, and opaque grains in a glass groundmass. > This mineral composition suggests that the dike formed from magma that > cooled relatively quickly, preventing the formation of large crystals. > > > > 2. **Physical Description**: The dike appears as a dark gray, > fine-grained rock with a salt and pepper texture. It weathers to dark brown > or grayish brown and forms a wall-like rampart. This implies that the dike > is resistant to weathering and erosion, standing out in the landscape as a > prominent feature. > > > > 3. **Structural Features**: The dike is described as comprising many > right echelon overlapping segments varying in length from 200 to 1200 feet > and up to 18 feet thick. This pattern of overlapping segments indicates > that the magma was injected into
Re: [FRIAM] "Weather line" on 14
A few km or even tens of km does not seem long to me on geological scales. If we have slowly formed crustal rock, it could be fairly uniform. Then if there is a bending stress on large scales from upwelling, the least-disruption fracture would be a long straightish crack along the the line perpendicular to the bending moment. Also, the material that goes into that crack is presumably pretty liquid. So while it is okay to call it “rock pressing up”, I think the image of liquid squeezing into a fracture, shoving apart the sides, and putting maximal stress on the apex which extends the fracture further, is more like the picture. And in whatever page somebody sent, they say the fracture that forms the Galisteo dike shows evidence of having formed in that way, by chaining one extension onto another, along the stress line where the faces are being pushed apart. When this happens in the sea bottom, seismometers can listen to what sounds like a zipping sound, as the crack from some new upwelling extends and extends. I forget if it was a review by Karen von Damm or by Deb Kelley in which I learned that. They have some name for it, which I am forgetting. Of course, continental crustal rock is not the same as seabed basalts (which are probably much more uniform), but even so, these are geologically fairly small features we are talking about. Eric > On Jun 23, 2024, at 12:21 PM, Nicholas Thompson > wrote: > > Yes, Barry. I heard you but I had the bit in my teeth. I apologize. Your > point seemed, for me, to beg the question I was obsessed with at the moment. > Where did a straight line of such scale come from? Now, I can see why a > radar echo might be a straight line, but why a line of dirt? What > geological process produces linear dikes? I can under why a sediment > layers might be horizontal layers and I guess maybe, I can imagine that the > seam between two layers might get rotated ninety degrees and then crack and > then I imagine igneous rock might press up through that seam. Is that the > sort oft thing you had in mind? > > N > > Nick > > On Sat, Jun 22, 2024 at 5:38 PM Barry MacKichan > wrote: > Several times on the Thuram Zoom call, I asked “Do you mean that volcanic > dike?” but I always seemed to say it just as someone else started up. > > I have two memories about it. > > • The president of SAR conjured up the image of 3,000 Comanches coming > through the gap (Comanche Gap) as they came to Santa Fe in the 1770s to agree > to the truce with New Mexico — the truce that I believe enabled the Spanish > to hang on for the next 50 years in NM. The image has stuck with me. > > • I thought it would be a great place to find petroglyphs, and indeed > it is. The density of the “No trespassing” signs along the road increases as > the square of the inverse of the distance from the point where the road > crosses the dike. They make it clear exactly where you should not trespass. > > —Barry > > On 21 Jun 2024, at 11:18, Stephen Guerin wrote: > > Research last night on historical geologic maps got the name of that as the > "Galisteo Dike". composition and description in attachment. There is one > further with as well. Also known as the Creston or Comanche Gap > > https://galisteo.nmarchaeology.org/sites/creston.html > > > Basic formation given this description (chatGPT): > > > The Galisteo Dike is a geological formation characterized by its composition > and physical properties, indicating its formation through volcanic activity. > Here’s a detailed interpretation of its formation based on the description > provided: > > 1. **Composition Analysis**: The Galisteo Dike consists of micro-monzonite, a > fine-grained igneous rock. It contains a mixture of minerals including > plagioclase, potassium feldspar, titan-augite, titaniferous biotite, apatite, > and opaque grains in a glass groundmass. This mineral composition suggests > that the dike formed from magma that cooled relatively quickly, preventing > the formation of large crystals. > > 2. **Physical Description**: The dike appears as a dark gray, fine-grained > rock with a salt and pepper texture. It weathers to dark brown or grayish > brown and forms a wall-like rampart. This implies that the dike is resistant > to weathering and erosion, standing out in the landscape as a prominent > feature. > > 3. **Structural Features**: The dike is described as comprising many right > echelon overlapping segments varying in length from 200 to 1200 feet and up > to 18 feet thick. This pattern of overlapping segments indicates that the > magma was injected into pre-existing fractures in the surrounding rock, > likely under significant pressure, causing the fractures to open and > propagate in an en echelon pattern. > > 4. **Geological Age**: The dike is dated to 26.55 million years ago, placing > its formation in the Oligocene epoch. This was a time of significant
