Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Sarbajit Roy]

Check these study links too
http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/nonlinear/papers_icicles.html

On 11/18/15, Nick Thompson  wrote:
> That is such a great article.
>
> I loved the idea that a growing icicle is necessarily a hollow tube filled
> with water.
>
> Will change how I see them.
>
> N
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
> Clark University
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:02 PM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A physics question
>
> Nice question. Probably needs more information though to answer for near
> some boundary conditions.
>
> http://www.igsoc.org:8080/journal/34/116/igs_journal_vol34_issue116_pg64-70.
> pdf
>
> "ABSTRACT : A theory of icicle growth is presented. ... A time-dependent
> computer model based on the theory shows that the growth of an icicle is a
> complicated process, which is very sensitive to the atmospheric conditions
> and water flux"
>
> I'm crossposting your query to some physics experts at
> http://www.physicstutordelhi.in to ask students as a test question
>
> On 11/18/15, Nick Thompson  wrote:
>> Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:
>>
>> Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air
>> temperature is above freezing?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas S. Thompson
>>
>> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>>
>> Clark University
>>
>> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
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>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Nick Thompson]

That is such a great article.  

I loved the idea that a growing icicle is necessarily a hollow tube filled
with water.  

Will change how I see them. 

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/


-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Sarbajit Roy
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2015 11:02 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

Nice question. Probably needs more information though to answer for near
some boundary conditions.

http://www.igsoc.org:8080/journal/34/116/igs_journal_vol34_issue116_pg64-70.
pdf

"ABSTRACT : A theory of icicle growth is presented. ... A time-dependent
computer model based on the theory shows that the growth of an icicle is a
complicated process, which is very sensitive to the atmospheric conditions
and water flux"

I'm crossposting your query to some physics experts at
http://www.physicstutordelhi.in to ask students as a test question

On 11/18/15, Nick Thompson  wrote:
> Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:
>
> Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air 
> temperature is above freezing?
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe
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Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Sarbajit Roy]

Nice question. Probably needs more information though to answer for
near some boundary conditions.

http://www.igsoc.org:8080/journal/34/116/igs_journal_vol34_issue116_pg64-70.pdf

"ABSTRACT : A theory of icicle growth is presented. ... A
time-dependent computer model based on the theory shows that the
growth of an icicle is a complicated process, which is very sensitive
to the atmospheric conditions and water flux"

I'm crossposting your query to some physics experts at
http://www.physicstutordelhi.in to ask students as a test question

On 11/18/15, Nick Thompson  wrote:
> Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:
>
> Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air
> temperature is above freezing?
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Carl]

All a matter of perspective, but, basically, yes.

On 11/17/15 6:50 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:

Yes.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Nick Thompson 
mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net>> wrote:


Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:

Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air
temperature is above freezing?

Nick

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Steve Smith]

  
  
Nick -
  
  I see some obvious mechanisms that would allow for this:
  
  Ice Caves are an interesting phenomenon which appear to beat the
  basic thermodynamics of a situation, some of their mechanisms
  would appear to allow for what you suggest:
  
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_cave#Temperature_mechanisms
  
  A simple answer is "yes"...  if the existing icicle is cold
  enough, water *can* be frozen onto it even if the ambient air
  temperature is above 0C...   
  
  It also does seem conceivable that evaporation of an outer layer
  of liquid water running down an icicle might remove enough heat
  from an inner layer to "grow" the icicle some more.  Our dry (and
  thin?) air would probably help.   
  
  I'm guessing that what you are looking for is a balanced equation
  between the latent heat of vaporization and the latent heat of 
  fusion for water.  A quick glance at the enthalpy equations
  suggest that there is more energy consumed by vaporization than
  required for fusion (freezing) of water.   The remaining questions
  include things like rates of evaporation in (semi)dry air and so
  forth.  
  
     
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat#Latent_heat_for_condensation_of_water
  
  I suppose the point of having icicles form on the sunny side is
  twofold:  first to provide the source of liquid water (melting
  snow) and second to make it all the more curiouser if/when the
  icicles grow?
  
  A real (currently practicing) physicist might do something more
  useful with your question.
  
  - Steve


  
  
  
  
Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa
  Fe Mother Church: 
 
Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side
  of a building if the air temperature is above freezing?  
 
Nick 
 
Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and
  Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
 
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [FRIAM] A physics question

[Owen Densmore]

Yes.

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Nick Thompson 
wrote:

> Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church:
>
>
>
> Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air
> temperature is above freezing?
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas S. Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
>
> Clark University
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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[FRIAM] A physics question

[Nick Thompson]

Chiefly for the Church Fathers of the Santa Fe Mother Church: 

 

Can one grow an icicle off the sunny side of a building if the air
temperature is above freezing?  

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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