Re: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

[thompnickson2]

Gang,

 

Ok, so I had a few moments to look into it and discovered that I am precisely 
and absolutely wrong.  Egregiously so.  This is exactly, classically,  a roll 
cloud … “arcus”.  

 

They are different from “shelf” and “wall” clouds in that they are not 
necessarily near thunderstorms.  Shelf clouds are quite common and form at the 
downdraft front of a thunderstorm where it passes by  the updraft.  In MA, 
almost every summer thunderstorm has one.  They seem to have a structure very 
similar to this roll cloud (hence my confusion).   What is striking about roll 
clouds is that they seem to progress through an otherwise stable atmosphere.  

 

I am not in NM in the summer, so I don’t know how common roll clouds are here, 
but because of the very low humidity, on NM radar in the summer you can often 
see downdraft gust fronts propagating outward  from thunderstorms for miles as 
faint lines encircling the former location of a long-dead parent storm.   A bit 
like “fairy rings” <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_ring>  of mushrooms.   
Where a gust front encounters potentially UN-stable air, it often initiates 
another thunderstorm.  

 

The other similar phenomenon is a derecho 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_derecho_events> .   I have no idea how 
these work, but they are gust fronts that propagate across enormous distances.  
One famous one a few years back took out electricity, trees, etc. all the way 
from Iowa to DC.  Is a derecho just a very nasty roll cloud?  Dunno.  I think I 
am not the only person to be confused about the distinction between a derecho, 
a shelf cloud, and a roll cloud.  Just excupatin’

 

Nick 

 

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

 

Amazing video of a "roll cloud" that seems to neatly demonstrate many of the 
things we discuss fairly often. It is extremely object-like. "It" seems to move 
around despite continuously forming and reforming itself at the boarder, while 
seeming not to "mix" with the "layers" around it. And, of course, the air 
around it is "pulling" it into place as much as the air in it is "pushing" into 
new space, so it gets at all of Steve's bidirectional-causality urges. 
Anyway... if nothing else, it is pretty damned cool to watch: 

 

 https://youtu.be/InxQlUOYAng?t=58

 

 

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Re: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

[thompnickson2]

It looks like a gust front where cooler air is under cutting and forcing upward 
warmer and moister air.  A bit like a lens cloud on the surface.  Would I have 
let my kids dance around on the pier under that thing?   I don’t think so. 

 

n

 

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Stephen Guerin
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:59 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

 

Very cool, Eric!

note the comment at the end how the wind stopped "like a light switch",

Here's a weather channel writeup of similar Roll Clouds near the same Sleeping 
Bear Dunes National Lakeshore 
<https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sleeping+Bear+Dunes+National+Lakeshore,+Maple+City,+MI+49664/@45.0844277,-86.1065753,8.75z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x881e1e758bcef3af:0x4c0212b9db689321!8m2!3d45.0986209!4d-86.0092802>
  reported the same day from different vantage point:
  https://www.mlive.com/weather/2016/06/what_caused_amazing_roll_cloud.html

with a video:
 https://youtu.be/UXrmT8ajYpM

Here's a dramatic video of series of roll clouds over Lake Michigan a couple 
years later. You can see the extreme winds kicking as the roll clouds pass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4d-PhfIb

 




___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com <mailto:stephen.gue...@simtable.com> 

CEO, https://www.simtable.com <http://www.simtable.com/> 

1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505

office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828

 

 

On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 9:17 PM Eric Charles mailto:eric.phillip.char...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Amazing video of a "roll cloud" that seems to neatly demonstrate many of the 
things we discuss fairly often. It is extremely object-like. "It" seems to move 
around despite continuously forming and reforming itself at the boarder, while 
seeming not to "mix" with the "layers" around it. And, of course, the air 
around it is "pulling" it into place as much as the air in it is "pushing" into 
new space, so it gets at all of Steve's bidirectional-causality urges. 
Anyway... if nothing else, it is pretty damned cool to watch: 

 

 https://youtu.be/InxQlUOYAng?t=58

 

 

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Re: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

[thompnickson2]

Man!  

 

I don’t think that’s a roll cloud, butthen Idon’t know what the hell it is, so 
who am I to say.  Can’t research it now, but Iwill try to tomorrow. 

 

n

 

Nick Thompson

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Thursday, November 3, 2022 9:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

 

Amazing video of a "roll cloud" that seems to neatly demonstrate many of the 
things we discuss fairly often. It is extremely object-like. "It" seems to move 
around despite continuously forming and reforming itself at the boarder, while 
seeming not to "mix" with the "layers" around it. And, of course, the air 
around it is "pulling" it into place as much as the air in it is "pushing" into 
new space, so it gets at all of Steve's bidirectional-causality urges. 
Anyway... if nothing else, it is pretty damned cool to watch: 

 

 https://youtu.be/InxQlUOYAng?t=58

 

 

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Re: [FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

[Stephen Guerin]

Very cool, Eric!

note the comment at the end how the wind stopped "like a light switch",

Here's a weather channel writeup of similar Roll Clouds near the same Sleeping
Bear Dunes National Lakeshore

reported the same day from different vantage point:
  https://www.mlive.com/weather/2016/06/what_caused_amazing_roll_cloud.html
with a video:
 https://youtu.be/UXrmT8ajYpM

Here's a dramatic video of series of roll clouds over Lake Michigan a
couple years later. You can see the extreme winds kicking as the roll
clouds pass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4d-PhfIb


___
stephen.gue...@simtable.com 
CEO, https://www.simtable.com 
1600 Lena St #D1, Santa Fe, NM 87505
office: (505)995-0206 mobile: (505)577-5828


On Thu, Nov 3, 2022 at 9:17 PM Eric Charles 
wrote:

> Amazing video of a "roll cloud" that seems to neatly demonstrate many of
> the things we discuss fairly often. It is extremely object-like. "It" seems
> to move around despite continuously forming and reforming itself at the
> boarder, while *seeming* not to "mix" with the "layers" around it. And,
> of course, the air around it is "pulling" it into place as much as the air
> in it is "pushing" into new space, so it gets at all of Steve's
> bidirectional-causality urges. Anyway... if nothing else, it is pretty
> damned cool to watch:
>
>  https://youtu.be/InxQlUOYAng?t=58
>
>
> 
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> https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
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>
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[FRIAM] Clouds as objects and duals

[Eric Charles]

Amazing video of a "roll cloud" that seems to neatly demonstrate many of
the things we discuss fairly often. It is extremely object-like. "It" seems
to move around despite continuously forming and reforming itself at the
boarder, while *seeming* not to "mix" with the "layers" around it. And, of
course, the air around it is "pulling" it into place as much as the air in
it is "pushing" into new space, so it gets at all of Steve's
bidirectional-causality urges. Anyway... if nothing else, it is pretty
damned cool to watch:

 https://youtu.be/InxQlUOYAng?t=58



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