Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Adulting sounds to me like the age at which you must take statins to prevent a cardiovascular disease. If it's the case I just arrived to be in. On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 6:27 PM Gillian Densmore wrote: > I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the slang > adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off to > be a' if you have a playful personality > Thoughts? > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Owen, I think this is a wonderful example of the coming together of two meanings. The idea of dangling some bait for some high=minded poor fool to bite, and the idea of lurking in a cave while doing it. Language is less like a genealogy and more like the threads of a delta, where rivulets divide and reconverge. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 11:06 AM To: Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I'm catching up on old email. Trolling is lovely although a horrid but sometimes worthy pursuit. I like this: troll1 /trōl/ noun noun: troll; plural noun: trolls 1.a mythical, cave-dwelling being depicted in folklore as either a giant or a dwarf, typically having a very ugly appearance. synonyms: goblin, hobgoblin, gnome, halfling, demon, monster, bugaboo, ogre "the storybook trolls who live under the bridge" Origin early 17th century: from Old Norse and Swedish troll, Danish trold . The first English use is from Shetland; the term was adopted more widely into English in the mid 19th century. troll2 /trōl/ noun noun: troll; plural noun: trolls 1.1. a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post. oINFORMAL a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting. 2.2. a line or bait used in trolling for fish. verb verb: troll; 3rd person present: trolls; past tense: trolled; past participle: trolled; gerund or present participle: trolling 1.1. INFORMAL make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you" 2.2. fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat. "we trolled for mackerel" ocarefully and systematically search an area for something. "a group of companies trolling for partnership opportunities" 3.3. sing (something) in a happy and carefree way. "troll the ancient Yuletide carol" 4.4. BRITISH walk; stroll. "we all trolled into town" Origin late Middle English (in the sense ‘stroll, roll’): origin uncertain; compare with Old French troller ‘wander here and there (in search of game)’ and Middle High German trollen ‘stroll.’ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I'm catching up on old email. Trolling is lovely although a horrid but sometimes worthy pursuit. I like this: troll1 /trōl/ *noun* noun: *troll*; plural noun: *trolls* 1. a mythical, cave-dwelling being depicted in folklore as either a giant or a dwarf, typically having a very ugly appearance. synonyms: goblin, hobgoblin, gnome, halfling, demon, monster, bugaboo, ogre "the storybook trolls who live under the bridge" Origin [image: image.png] early 17th century: from Old Norse and Swedish *troll*, Danish *trold* . The first English use is from Shetland; the term was adopted more widely into English in the mid 19th century. troll2 /trōl/ *noun* noun: *troll*; plural noun: *trolls* 1. 1. a person who makes a deliberately offensive or provocative online post. - INFORMAL a deliberately offensive or provocative online posting. 2. 2. a line or bait used in trolling for fish. *verb* verb: *troll*; 3rd person present: *trolls*; past tense: *trolled*; past participle: *trolled*; gerund or present participle: *trolling* 1. 1. INFORMAL make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them. "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you" 2. 2. fish by trailing a baited line along behind a boat. "we *trolled for* mackerel" - carefully and systematically search an area for something. "a group of companies trolling for partnership opportunities" 3. 3. sing (something) in a happy and carefree way. "troll the ancient Yuletide carol" 4. 4. BRITISH walk; stroll. "we all trolled into town" Origin late Middle English (in the sense ‘stroll, roll’): origin uncertain; compare with Old French *troller* ‘wander here and there (in search of game)’ and Middle High German *trollen* ‘stroll.’ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Nick, there was a troll before there was acting like a troll (i.e. trolling), and the troll was a bridge lurker. Read, sometime, Vernor Vinge's SciFi book True Names for insight into how magical/mythical metaphors dominated the early days of computing/programming when master developers were wizards. Adulting is byproduct of a culture and an economic class where social roles (e.g. child, adult, elder) are poorly and arbitrarily defined (e.g. 18 is 'adult' when you need cannon fodder in Vietnam, but 21 to indulge in socially acceptable induction of an altered state of consciousness); and when there are minimal, if any, ritualistic rites of passage marking transitions from role to role. I include economic class as a climate for silliness like "adulting" because 'adult' behavior is imposed and the child has no option and cannot revert. Nice pun re "childing" but unless you are of the community that eschews sex except for procreative purposes; consensual sex will, most of the time, be adulting regardless of the age of the participants. davew On Wed, Nov 14, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Thanks, Glen. Oh, I see that it has come to mean many things. Meaning > is like that. But I was curious about its origin. Was the person who > first used the term thinking about the Billie Goats Gruff (WHO'S THAT > TRAMPING OVER MY BRIDGE!) [Yes, Owen, I am shouting.} or was he putting > along, at 2 miles an hour, half a sleep in the back of a boat on a quiet > Vermont lake? > > Nick > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:15 AM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting > > I've always taken "the Troll" to be a species of Trickster... not always > comfortable, but often valuable. > > > On 11/14/18 7:39 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote: > > It's come to mean many things, but all along the lines of provocation. > > Boghossian et al, for example, did a *great* job at provoking Wilson and > > Shaw and a host of other actual scholars into responding to their science > > fraud. But it's important, to me anyway, to remember that trolling also > > encompasses behaviors like Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and > > Socrates' treatment of Euthyphro. > > > > So, the options you've offered, fishing or monster, is impoverished. The > > village shaman is a better example. Even if shamen/witches mostly use > > provocation to hypnotize and control the villagers [†], we can assume that > > some (perhaps small) percentage of shamen/witches are doing it for the good > > of the tribe, not just to grab a quick bite. > > > > As I've posted before, here is my favorite defense of trolling: > > > > How to make a nuisance of yourself in [usenet] news > > > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070609085706/http://www.sm.luth.se/~torke > > l/eget/net.html > > > > Torkel's dead, but definitely not forgotten! > > > > [†] Perhaps mostly in self-defense, since the physically or mentally > > abnormal people who didn't become holy people might be executed or exiled. > > > > On 11/13/18 7:40 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > >> I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the > >> bridge or the fisherman. Or both? > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Nick that's a good question! Without to much info. I'd saying that making love is a little of both. On one side it is my opinion if she is good enough to make love to, she's good enought to get her female need products and keep rubbers on hand. On the other side. IMO Making love should be playful-for example. On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 12:33 PM Nick Thompson wrote: > Oh, but here's the point: > > Is having sex "childing" or "adulting"? > > Nick > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > -Original Message- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ? > Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:16 PM > To: FriAM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting > > I think this captures the irony in the youngsters' use of the word > "adulting". It's a role and only a role. You sometimes *play* the role > and you sometimes don't. It's like clothing you put on and take off ... > much like an avatar in a video game. > > I think it's an authentic attempt to be just a tad more honest about who > we are and our self-image, which is why I mentioned impostor syndrome. And > it goes hand-in-hand, I think, with LGBT rights and the fluidity of gender > roles. I was intrigued when some celebrity (Aubrey Plaza maybe?) came out > as *queer*, not gay. It seems to be an interesting stance wherein the > person denies the (artificial) discretization of gender or sexual > preference. > > On 11/13/18 9:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > I still wonder what it would be like to wake-up and feel like an > > adult, or if there are people happy with the idea and feel like it > happened at an appropriate age. I think I would not like those people. > > -- > ☣ uǝlƃ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
By "no need", I'm imagining a personality species stored in individuals.
Suppose that personality P is instantiated only in individuals A and B which
both refer to it as Self. P will be preserved so long as either A or B exist.
I'm assuming that it is desirable to maximize the number of active
personalities, and that Adulting is just a way to preserve a rare species of
personality. In this case B could assign personality Q to Self and there is
no immediate risk to personality species P. Adulting would be pushing Q on a
Self stack to later pop it. Assignment is just as good for a Hive mind.
On 11/14/18, 3:34 PM, "Marcus Daniels" wrote:
Glen writes:
< The real trick is whether adulting is driven by the real world or
severely abstracted stereotypes of what young people *think* is adult behavior.
>
< But it doesn't change the conclusion that playing the role of an adult is
distinct from being an adult. And I maintain that playing the role is more
powerful and less delusional than *being* the role. >
One can adopt prototypes which will provide some cognitive insulation from
being the role. Alternatively, one can define or mutate a definition of what
being a responsible person means in a subjective sense. If this Self is not
{de/re}constructed, I think it is probably copied from other prototypes. It
is especially likely in adolescence when the pressure to fit-in is
overwhelming.Whether the Self arises from lots of mixing and matching or
from some sort of design is a detail.I'm just throwing out the possibility
Self doesn't even exist for some people, or maybe even at all, so there is no
need to keep an alternative prototype at arm's length.
Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Glen writes:
< The real trick is whether adulting is driven by the real world or severely
abstracted stereotypes of what young people *think* is adult behavior. >
< But it doesn't change the conclusion that playing the role of an adult is
distinct from being an adult. And I maintain that playing the role is more
powerful and less delusional than *being* the role. >
One can adopt prototypes which will provide some cognitive insulation from
being the role. Alternatively, one can define or mutate a definition of what
being a responsible person means in a subjective sense. If this Self is not
{de/re}constructed, I think it is probably copied from other prototypes. It
is especially likely in adolescence when the pressure to fit-in is
overwhelming.Whether the Self arises from lots of mixing and matching or
from some sort of design is a detail.I'm just throwing out the possibility
Self doesn't even exist for some people, or maybe even at all, so there is no
need to keep an alternative prototype at arm's length.
Marcus
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
There's no doubt that adulting depends on what old people actually do (i.e. interacting with the real system). The real trick is whether adulting is driven by the real world or severely abstracted stereotypes of what young people *think* is adult behavior. To me, walking the dog is NOT adulting, because I only walked a dog as a kid. But doing any task you really don't care about IS adulting if you do it in support of some idealized adult relationship. So your point is valid, if abstract. But it doesn't change the conclusion that playing the role of an adult is distinct from being an adult. And I maintain that playing the role is more powerful and less delusional than *being* the role. On November 14, 2018 1:50:24 PM PST, Marcus Daniels wrote: >I don't have an opinion on Usefulness, other than that it may be >difficult to apply the outcome of such a simulation. >Imagine you invent a great way to play the market, but it depends on >having low transaction costs and low latency. If you aren't able to >sneak your way into the exchange, it just won't matter how clever your >idea is. > >At some point it is better to be able manipulate & observe a real >system rather than experiment with a model that can't be validated. >Role play seems an attractive modeling approach because it is a sort of >practice for engaging in the real system, should there be an >opportunity to get a foot in the door and engage with it -- emphasis on >street smart rather than book smart. -- glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I don't have an opinion on Usefulness, other than that it may be difficult to apply the outcome of such a simulation. Imagine you invent a great way to play the market, but it depends on having low transaction costs and low latency. If you aren't able to sneak your way into the exchange, it just won't matter how clever your idea is. At some point it is better to be able manipulate & observe a real system rather than experiment with a model that can't be validated.Role play seems an attractive modeling approach because it is a sort of practice for engaging in the real system, should there be an opportunity to get a foot in the door and engage with it -- emphasis on street smart rather than book smart. On 11/14/18, 2:37 PM, "Friam on behalf of glen" wrote: OK. So, there exist gradations of role-play. But is, say, undercover work by cops any more useful than, say, karaoke? Or, taken to the extreme, is it any more useful than watching a movie about Batman and feeling jealous of the toys? "Usefulness" relies on some teleology that isn't always obvious. I'd argue that fantasy is merely another way to reason analogously ... a form of simulation, which helps us weigh our options and make rational decisions. Adulting is no different than simulated annealing. On November 14, 2018 12:27:49 PM PST, Marcus Daniels wrote: >There's always Frank Abagnale for inspiration, but some roles are >harder and riskier than others.Today I'm an Olympic athlete, >tomorrow a billionaire.. -- glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
OK. So, there exist gradations of role-play. But is, say, undercover work by cops any more useful than, say, karaoke? Or, taken to the extreme, is it any more useful than watching a movie about Batman and feeling jealous of the toys? "Usefulness" relies on some teleology that isn't always obvious. I'd argue that fantasy is merely another way to reason analogously ... a form of simulation, which helps us weigh our options and make rational decisions. Adulting is no different than simulated annealing. On November 14, 2018 12:27:49 PM PST, Marcus Daniels wrote: >There's always Frank Abagnale for inspiration, but some roles are >harder and riskier than others.Today I'm an Olympic athlete, >tomorrow a billionaire.. -- glen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Glen writes: < Role-playing is *always* useful and fixes many things. But my disagreement probably depends on what you mean by "simple fantasy". That seems loaded. > There's always Frank Abagnale for inspiration, but some roles are harder and riskier than others.Today I'm an Olympic athlete, tomorrow a billionaire.. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
On 11/14/18 12:07 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Well, there is a difference between accurately observing that life is some > way and recognizing it could be different. > I posit it is hard for many adults to look in their metaphorical toolshed and > admit that was just what they had to accumulate. I agree completely. I've always considered myself *lucky*. Perhaps I was biased because my dad used to repeat the mantra: "I'd rather be lucky than good." And it's amazing how many "successful" people believe their "success" is due to their own efforts. Similarly, it's amazing to see how many down on their luck people blame themselves for their situation. It's most poignant now in drug addiction and how, now that *white* people are addicted to prescription drugs, we're all realizing how stupid the drug war is. > It is easier to rationalize it is what they wanted for themselves and what is > best for everyone. I posit that the difficulty in facing this kind of > disappointment tends to feed authoritarianism. On the other hand, simple > fantasy (Whatever-ing) doesn't fix anything either. But here, I think I disagree. Role-playing is *always* useful and fixes many things. But my disagreement probably depends on what you mean by "simple fantasy". That seems loaded. -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Glen writes; < But isn't this the point of things like "kin selection" and "eusociality"? Hell, even *cats* share food and negotiate territory. Is there, in actuality, anything that's "truly individualistic"? > Well, there is a difference between accurately observing that life is some way and recognizing it could be different. I posit it is hard for many adults to look in their metaphorical toolshed and admit that was just what they had to accumulate. It is easier to rationalize it is what they wanted for themselves and what is best for everyone. I posit that the difficulty in facing this kind of disappointment tends to feed authoritarianism. On the other hand, simple fantasy (Whatever-ing) doesn't fix anything either. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
But isn't this the point of things like "kin selection" and "eusociality"? Hell, even *cats* share food and negotiate territory. Is there, in actuality, anything that's "truly individualistic"? On 11/14/18 11:49 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > "Coming out" or asserting an individual to group relationship implies that > some group expectations on individuals are appropriate and that individuals > or sub-groups must negotiate a boundary with a majority.Otherwise, people > would just do whatever they wanted and not even think to mention it. A > truly individualistic society would aim to eliminate all group expectations, > not just one special case at a time.No, you can have cyan hair and a > same-sex partner of another race, but you can't share secrets with the > competitors or wear cutoffs & a t-shirt to an important customer meeting. > There's a short list of the Whatever-Ing options an adult really has. -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Glen writes: < I think this captures the irony in the youngsters' use of the word "adulting". It's a role and only a role. You sometimes *play* the role and you sometimes don't. It's like clothing you put on and take off ... much like an avatar in a video game. I think it's an authentic attempt to be just a tad more honest about who we are and our self-image, which is why I mentioned impostor syndrome. And it goes hand-in-hand, I think, with LGBT rights and the fluidity of gender roles. I was intrigued when some celebrity (Aubrey Plaza maybe?) came out as *queer*, not gay. It seems to be an interesting stance wherein the person denies the (artificial) discretization of gender or sexual preference. > "Coming out" or asserting an individual to group relationship implies that some group expectations on individuals are appropriate and that individuals or sub-groups must negotiate a boundary with a majority.Otherwise, people would just do whatever they wanted and not even think to mention it. A truly individualistic society would aim to eliminate all group expectations, not just one special case at a time.No, you can have cyan hair and a same-sex partner of another race, but you can't share secrets with the competitors or wear cutoffs & a t-shirt to an important customer meeting. There's a short list of the Whatever-Ing options an adult really has. Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Adulting, no doubt. To analogize the connotation, "childing" would be "acting like a child". On 11/14/18 11:33 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Oh, but here's the point: > > Is having sex "childing" or "adulting"? -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Oh, but here's the point: Is having sex "childing" or "adulting"? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 12:16 PM To: FriAM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I think this captures the irony in the youngsters' use of the word "adulting". It's a role and only a role. You sometimes *play* the role and you sometimes don't. It's like clothing you put on and take off ... much like an avatar in a video game. I think it's an authentic attempt to be just a tad more honest about who we are and our self-image, which is why I mentioned impostor syndrome. And it goes hand-in-hand, I think, with LGBT rights and the fluidity of gender roles. I was intrigued when some celebrity (Aubrey Plaza maybe?) came out as *queer*, not gay. It seems to be an interesting stance wherein the person denies the (artificial) discretization of gender or sexual preference. On 11/13/18 9:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I still wonder what it would be like to wake-up and feel like an > adult, or if there are people happy with the idea and feel like it happened > at an appropriate age. I think I would not like those people. -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I think this captures the irony in the youngsters' use of the word "adulting". It's a role and only a role. You sometimes *play* the role and you sometimes don't. It's like clothing you put on and take off ... much like an avatar in a video game. I think it's an authentic attempt to be just a tad more honest about who we are and our self-image, which is why I mentioned impostor syndrome. And it goes hand-in-hand, I think, with LGBT rights and the fluidity of gender roles. I was intrigued when some celebrity (Aubrey Plaza maybe?) came out as *queer*, not gay. It seems to be an interesting stance wherein the person denies the (artificial) discretization of gender or sexual preference. On 11/13/18 9:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > I still wonder what it would be like to wake-up and feel like an adult, or if > there are people happy with the idea and feel like it happened at an > appropriate age. I think I would not like those people. -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I'd be *amazed* if anyone could find THE person who coined the term. I'd be even more amazed if that person had a coherent definition at the time. I suppose you could trace it back to the first person to use it in print, maybe look at Google's NGram: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=troll&year_start=1980&year_end=2018&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctroll%3B%2Cc0 On 11/14/18 8:40 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > Thanks, Glen. Oh, I see that it has come to mean many things. Meaning is > like that. But I was curious about its origin. Was the person who first > used the term thinking about the Billie Goats Gruff (WHO'S THAT TRAMPING OVER > MY BRIDGE!) [Yes, Owen, I am shouting.} or was he putting along, at 2 miles > an hour, half a sleep in the back of a boat on a quiet Vermont lake? -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Thanks, Glen. Oh, I see that it has come to mean many things. Meaning is like that. But I was curious about its origin. Was the person who first used the term thinking about the Billie Goats Gruff (WHO'S THAT TRAMPING OVER MY BRIDGE!) [Yes, Owen, I am shouting.} or was he putting along, at 2 miles an hour, half a sleep in the back of a boat on a quiet Vermont lake? Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 9:15 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I've always taken "the Troll" to be a species of Trickster... not always comfortable, but often valuable. On 11/14/18 7:39 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote: > It's come to mean many things, but all along the lines of provocation. > Boghossian et al, for example, did a *great* job at provoking Wilson and Shaw > and a host of other actual scholars into responding to their science fraud. > But it's important, to me anyway, to remember that trolling also encompasses > behaviors like Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and Socrates' treatment > of Euthyphro. > > So, the options you've offered, fishing or monster, is impoverished. The > village shaman is a better example. Even if shamen/witches mostly use > provocation to hypnotize and control the villagers [†], we can assume that > some (perhaps small) percentage of shamen/witches are doing it for the good > of the tribe, not just to grab a quick bite. > > As I've posted before, here is my favorite defense of trolling: > > How to make a nuisance of yourself in [usenet] news > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070609085706/http://www.sm.luth.se/~torke > l/eget/net.html > > Torkel's dead, but definitely not forgotten! > > [†] Perhaps mostly in self-defense, since the physically or mentally abnormal > people who didn't become holy people might be executed or exiled. > > On 11/13/18 7:40 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the bridge >> or the fisherman. Or both? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I've always taken "the Troll" to be a species of Trickster... not always comfortable, but often valuable. On 11/14/18 7:39 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote: > It's come to mean many things, but all along the lines of provocation. > Boghossian et al, for example, did a *great* job at provoking Wilson and Shaw > and a host of other actual scholars into responding to their science fraud. > But it's important, to me anyway, to remember that trolling also encompasses > behaviors like Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and Socrates' treatment > of Euthyphro. > > So, the options you've offered, fishing or monster, is impoverished. The > village shaman is a better example. Even if shamen/witches mostly use > provocation to hypnotize and control the villagers [†], we can assume that > some (perhaps small) percentage of shamen/witches are doing it for the good > of the tribe, not just to grab a quick bite. > > As I've posted before, here is my favorite defense of trolling: > > How to make a nuisance of yourself in [usenet] news > > http://web.archive.org/web/20070609085706/http://www.sm.luth.se/~torkel/eget/net.html > > Torkel's dead, but definitely not forgotten! > > [†] Perhaps mostly in self-defense, since the physically or mentally abnormal > people who didn't become holy people might be executed or exiled. > > On 11/13/18 7:40 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: >> I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the bridge >> or the fisherman. Or both? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
It's come to mean many things, but all along the lines of provocation. Boghossian et al, for example, did a *great* job at provoking Wilson and Shaw and a host of other actual scholars into responding to their science fraud. But it's important, to me anyway, to remember that trolling also encompasses behaviors like Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal" and Socrates' treatment of Euthyphro. So, the options you've offered, fishing or monster, is impoverished. The village shaman is a better example. Even if shamen/witches mostly use provocation to hypnotize and control the villagers [†], we can assume that some (perhaps small) percentage of shamen/witches are doing it for the good of the tribe, not just to grab a quick bite. As I've posted before, here is my favorite defense of trolling: How to make a nuisance of yourself in [usenet] news http://web.archive.org/web/20070609085706/http://www.sm.luth.se/~torkel/eget/net.html Torkel's dead, but definitely not forgotten! [†] Perhaps mostly in self-defense, since the physically or mentally abnormal people who didn't become holy people might be executed or exiled. On 11/13/18 7:40 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the bridge > or the fisherman. Or both? -- ∄ uǝʃƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Nick re: trolling. Quit possibly. The slang form of troll, reffering to someone stomping about just to get attention goes back to at least the erra of modems and BullitenBoards.Personally I started seeing and getting a gist of the slang on MUD's. Text based DnD games that became the moderm MMO (Ever quest, star trek online and World Of Warcraft). In WoW (world of warcraft) someone that says stuff to others to being sassy is bettER type of troll. That form has fallen out of favor to just the negative form. To meen seomeones saying stuff to rile up others. As glen sugested keeping polotical propiganda going (for example), taking jabs at peoples typos. On english heaving servers it's (sadly) very common for some trolls to take stabs at and make slights about peoples countries. Or go off about fox news. Where as Adulting is kind of different because takes a toung in cheek (usually) look at someone. For example someone could say in a conversation. Argh I have to be an adult for a few moments to pick up my kids. They can also use the slang take from a real example: Just to let you guys know I may need to do some adulting and grab my dog if my husband is late from work today. On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 8:40 PM Nick Thompson wrote: > Glen, > > I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the > bridge or the fisherman. Or both? > > N > > Nicholas S. Thompson > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > Clark University > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > > > -Original Message- > From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ? > Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:52 PM > To: FriAM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting > > It sounds to me like yet another effect of the information age, the > decoupling of one's essential self from their environment/behavior. E.g. > in gaming, a "tryhard" is someone who takes the game too seriously. It's > just a game. It's OK if you lose. Or another e.g. trolling. When > interacting with someone online who seems too sensitive or takes themselves > too seriously, a decoupled person might *pretend* to be a Nazi or somesuch > just to fsck with the person. > > So too with adulting, where you do adult things but retain your *essence*, > which is not so adult as to take adulting seriously ... to commit to it as > a part of your identity. It reminds me of "imposter syndrome" and "fake it > till you make it", both common phrases when I was 30 or so. > > On 11/13/18 3:26 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > > I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the > > slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of > 'going off to be a' if you have a playful personality Thoughts? > > > -- > ☣ uǝlƃ > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC> > http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I find it more like 25-30 years of injuries, small and large. Some were necessary and/or self-inflicted, but I’m very different than I was (for better or worse). I still wonder what it would be like to wake-up and feel like an adult, or if there are people happy with the idea and feel like it happened at an appropriate age. I think I would not like those people. From: Friam on behalf of Steven A Smith Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Date: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 9:28 PM To: "friam@redfish.com" Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I've always preferred the pronunciation of "adult" as "A Dolt"... it is what I remember adults seeming like right up until I woke up and realized "now I am one!" On 11/13/18 8:38 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: I have often mused about trying to explain to a child what “adult” means, given Adulthood Adulterate Adult movies Adultery N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/<http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:26 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <mailto:friam@redfish.com> Subject: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off to be a' if you have a playful personality Thoughts? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I've always preferred the pronunciation of "adult" as "A Dolt"... it is what I remember adults seeming like right up until I woke up and realized "now I am one!" On 11/13/18 8:38 PM, Nick Thompson wrote: > > I have often mused about trying to explain to a child what “adult” > means, given > > > > Adulthood > > Adulterate > > Adult movies > > Adultery > > > > N > > > > > > Nicholas S. Thompson > > Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology > > Clark University > > http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ > <http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/> > > > > *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Gillian > Densmore > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:26 PM > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > *Subject:* [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting > > > > I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the > slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of > 'going off to be a' if you have a playful personality > > Thoughts? > > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
Glen, I have always wondered about "trolling". Is it the monster under the bridge or the fisherman. Or both? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ? Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:52 PM To: FriAM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting It sounds to me like yet another effect of the information age, the decoupling of one's essential self from their environment/behavior. E.g. in gaming, a "tryhard" is someone who takes the game too seriously. It's just a game. It's OK if you lose. Or another e.g. trolling. When interacting with someone online who seems too sensitive or takes themselves too seriously, a decoupled person might *pretend* to be a Nazi or somesuch just to fsck with the person. So too with adulting, where you do adult things but retain your *essence*, which is not so adult as to take adulting seriously ... to commit to it as a part of your identity. It reminds me of "imposter syndrome" and "fake it till you make it", both common phrases when I was 30 or so. On 11/13/18 3:26 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the > slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off > to be a' if you have a playful personality Thoughts? -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I have often mused about trying to explain to a child what “adult” means, given Adulthood Adulterate Adult movies Adultery N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gillian Densmore Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 4:26 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off to be a' if you have a playful personality Thoughts? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
Re: [FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
It sounds to me like yet another effect of the information age, the decoupling of one's essential self from their environment/behavior. E.g. in gaming, a "tryhard" is someone who takes the game too seriously. It's just a game. It's OK if you lose. Or another e.g. trolling. When interacting with someone online who seems too sensitive or takes themselves too seriously, a decoupled person might *pretend* to be a Nazi or somesuch just to fsck with the person. So too with adulting, where you do adult things but retain your *essence*, which is not so adult as to take adulting seriously ... to commit to it as a part of your identity. It reminds me of "imposter syndrome" and "fake it till you make it", both common phrases when I was 30 or so. On 11/13/18 3:26 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the slang > adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off to be > a' if you have a playful personality > Thoughts? -- ☣ uǝlƃ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
[FRIAM] Pondering the slang Adulting
I got to talking with dad today and I hadn't though about how the slang adulting might have come about. My guess was in the sense of 'going off to be a' if you have a playful personality Thoughts? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com archives back to 2003: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
