Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[thompnickson2]

ED, 

 

You wrote: 

The $500 fund I started at my local market to allow checkers/management to let 
anyone unable to pay their full grocery bill was my alternative to the 
occasional "bailout"

 

That was a fabulous idea and I am glad you did it. 

 

Nick

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

thompnicks...@gmail.com

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 3:54 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

 

On 4/22/20 3:29 PM, Edward Angel wrote:

> Nick,

> 

> I have no problem with anyone wanting to support their local barista.

> Please remember also that the Food Bank really needs funds.

> 

> I do have a problem with your view of the 60’s. Those young folks you 

> remember were almost 100% white middle class kids, Almost no blacks, 

> hispanics, native americans or asians. At that time poverty was far 

> higher than it is today. Medical care was not available to large parts 

> of the population. And then there was the rest of the world at that time.

> 

> By fixating on the local situation, we tend to forget about the bigger 

> world which is suffering far more than us. Countries across Asia and 

> Africa are dealing with the virus in addition to refugees, lack of 

> medical facilities, the impossibility of social distancing and many 

> other factors. Lots of information on the web as to how bad the 

> situation is. There are organizations combating these factors that are 

> worth paying attention to.

 

I'm with you on this Ed...  I just heard some of the forecasts/worries about 
how the consequences of this pandemic are going to domino into the 
worst-poverty situations around the world.I'm not against helping there 
too... just wanting to acknowledge those around me who got caught worst by this 
than I did.

 

My only direct(ish) link into that world is a Kenyan friend who still has deep 
roots in his homeland.

 

The $500 fund I started at my local market to allow checkers/management to let 
anyone unable to pay their full grocery bill was my alternative to the 
occasional "bailout" I'd offer the cashier/next-person-in-line when I was there 
to observe it.  I'm now only at that store once a week (or less) and the number 
of people are very limited and I just haven't found myself in that spot like I 
used to (often EBT users who misunderstood what was and wasn't covered by their 
EBT cards... )...

 

I doubt this comes up at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's very often...  but it is 
common in a market like Pojoaque.

 

I'm afraid if we don't get this current administration (and probably the 
current Senate GOP majority) out in November, our ability/appetite to help 
anyone but ourselves (and maybe not the most needy here) will be negative...  

 

- Steve

 

 

 

.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam unsubscribe  
<http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com> 
http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

archives:  <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/> 
http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/

FRIAM-COMIC  <http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/> 
http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[uǝlƃ ☣]

8^) Sorry. I didn't intend to accuse anyone of purposefully manipulation. 
That's why I mentioned the Telephone Game. It doesn't matter what we intend, 
the message will get perverted. ("The only problem with communication is the 
illusion that it exists." -- somebody somewhere I'm too lazy to look up.)

For me, it's "Do what thou wilt". If you want to spend hours scouring 990's and 
build expert systems or constraint optimizers to tell you which charity to give 
to, that's fantastic. But don't, at the end of the day, pomp around town 
spouting how your money's more effective than others. (This is said not to 
anyone here, but to the EA people.) If you want to toss $100 bills out the 
window at homeless people, that's fantastic. I choose to donate to nonprofits I 
care about (like for Debian or psychedelic research). And I have friends who 
volunteer for the red cross. So I like to toss some money that way. To my mind, 
any overhead (even if it's 90%) they use off my donation to pay the staff or 
raise other funds is their business. I try not to micromanage. Similarly, if 
the homeless guy takes my $5 and buys some Strawberry Hill, more power to him. 
It was a gift and he can use it as he pleases.

The "how are you going to spend this if I give it to you" sounds a lot like 
"Get off my lawn!"


On 4/22/20 2:43 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> glen -
> 
> I definitely didn't intend to *invert* your intention... I *did*
> understand (roughly) that it is arrogant to believe that *I* can
> engineer a better altruism than say Red Cross or Habitat for Humanity or
> the Social Welfare apparatus of my city/state/national/UN efforts.
> But I think your arguments *also* allow (support) my feeling that I
> *want* to make sure that the people who have given good service to me
> (and to whom I have been mostly generous with my tips in the past)
> survive this mess and are available and motivated (or not) to return to
> that service.   
> 
> Giving good tips, paying what may feel like inflated prices to local
> farmers and artisans, etc. feels like I'm being part of the
> emergent/evolved system...   Back when many were part of a local
> religious congregation, there was the idea of a "tithe" or sharing
> 1/10th of one's productive efforts with one's peers, using their
> church's (synagog/stupa/whatever) leader/admnistration to help them by
> distributing it.   Of course these were always (mostly) Franchises that
> gathered up a "tithe" of those tithes to fund the larger
> administration/hierarchy (I've seen the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake
> and the Vatican... as well as the extravagant architecture of Washington
> DC), and some might resent that and would rather just "give their
> neighbor a hand during planting, harvest, barn-raising time) or not.
> 
> I'm (for the most part) rooting the House Dems who are working hard
> (best I can tell) to get whatever money they manage to get printed at
> this moment to "the little guy" whether it is through the direct
> payments already halfway in/through the mail or to small businesses who
> will do their (we hope) damnedest to  do right by their employees...
> keep them on payroll long enough to *maybe* pull out of whatever
> nosedive their industry is in.
> 
> I acknowledge that this surely means higher taxes for me in the (near
> and indefinite) future.   My income/savings is pretty modest by
> professional  standards but best I can tell notably above many in
> service and living (much less minimum) wage workers, and I'm willing to
> *share* some of their pain.   I don't know how much, or in what mode, 
> but this kind of event makes *me* feel "yet more generous" than
> otherwise... 
> 
> Untangle me in this one if you might?  I really didn't want to impugne
> your guidance in these matters.
> 

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Steven A Smith]

On 4/22/20 3:29 PM, Edward Angel wrote:
> Nick,
>
> I have no problem with anyone wanting to support their local barista.
> Please remember also that the Food Bank really needs funds.
>
> I do have a problem with your view of the 60’s. Those young folks you
> remember were almost 100% white middle class kids, Almost no blacks,
> hispanics, native americans or asians. At that time poverty was far
> higher than it is today. Medical care was not available to large parts
> of the population. And then there was the rest of the world at that time.
>
> By fixating on the local situation, we tend to forget about the bigger
> world which is suffering far more than us. Countries across Asia and
> Africa are dealing with the virus in addition to refugees, lack of
> medical facilities, the impossibility of social distancing and many
> other factors. Lots of information on the web as to how bad the
> situation is. There are organizations combating these factors that are
> worth paying attention to.

I'm with you on this Ed...  I just heard some of the forecasts/worries
about how the consequences of this pandemic are going to domino into the
worst-poverty situations around the world.    I'm not against helping
there too... just wanting to acknowledge those around me who got caught
worst by this than I did.

My only direct(ish) link into that world is a Kenyan friend who still
has deep roots in his homeland.

The $500 fund I started at my local market to allow checkers/management
to let anyone unable to pay their full grocery bill was my alternative
to the occasional "bailout" I'd offer the cashier/next-person-in-line
when I was there to observe it.  I'm now only at that store once a week
(or less) and the number of people are very limited and I just haven't
found myself in that spot like I used to (often EBT users who
misunderstood what was and wasn't covered by their EBT cards... )...

I doubt this comes up at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's very often...  but
it is common in a market like Pojoaque.

I'm afraid if we don't get this current administration (and probably the
current Senate GOP majority) out in November, our ability/appetite to
help anyone but ourselves (and maybe not the most needy here) will be
negative...  

- Steve



.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Steven A Smith]

glen -

I definitely didn't intend to *invert* your intention... I *did*
understand (roughly) that it is arrogant to believe that *I* can
engineer a better altruism than say Red Cross or Habitat for Humanity or
the Social Welfare apparatus of my city/state/national/UN efforts.
But I think your arguments *also* allow (support) my feeling that I
*want* to make sure that the people who have given good service to me
(and to whom I have been mostly generous with my tips in the past)
survive this mess and are available and motivated (or not) to return to
that service.   

Giving good tips, paying what may feel like inflated prices to local
farmers and artisans, etc. feels like I'm being part of the
emergent/evolved system...   Back when many were part of a local
religious congregation, there was the idea of a "tithe" or sharing
1/10th of one's productive efforts with one's peers, using their
church's (synagog/stupa/whatever) leader/admnistration to help them by
distributing it.   Of course these were always (mostly) Franchises that
gathered up a "tithe" of those tithes to fund the larger
administration/hierarchy (I've seen the Mormon Tabernacle in Salt Lake
and the Vatican... as well as the extravagant architecture of Washington
DC), and some might resent that and would rather just "give their
neighbor a hand during planting, harvest, barn-raising time) or not.

I'm (for the most part) rooting the House Dems who are working hard
(best I can tell) to get whatever money they manage to get printed at
this moment to "the little guy" whether it is through the direct
payments already halfway in/through the mail or to small businesses who
will do their (we hope) damnedest to  do right by their employees...
keep them on payroll long enough to *maybe* pull out of whatever
nosedive their industry is in.

I acknowledge that this surely means higher taxes for me in the (near
and indefinite) future.   My income/savings is pretty modest by
professional  standards but best I can tell notably above many in
service and living (much less minimum) wage workers, and I'm willing to
*share* some of their pain.   I don't know how much, or in what mode, 
but this kind of event makes *me* feel "yet more generous" than
otherwise... 

Untangle me in this one if you might?  I really didn't want to impugne
your guidance in these matters.

- Steve


On 4/22/20 2:36 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> Heh, it's funny how something you say can be perfectly inverted by the 
> audience to mean the opposite of what you intended. The Telephone Game is 
> always relevant.
>
> My point to Steve was about "effective altruism", the idea that the 
> philanthropist has any idea whatsoever of the relative optimality of one 
> charity compared to another. My position is one of ignorance and against the 
> (mostly wealthy, tech-savvy, arrogant) person's most likely *mistaken* belief 
> in their own competence, especially in a domain that is fundamentally 
> different from where they operate "professionally". My point to Steve was 
> that meritocracy is a sham and a sibling effect to the Great Man Theory.
>
> Now, to the extent that my reading of von Hayek (not Friedman) argued for 
> market forces because it is *arrogant* to pretend you can design a system 
> more efficient than the one nature relaxes into, then I would argue for such 
> natural, organic solutions over engineered ones. But that's precisely 
> *because* those who think they can singularly, themselves, engineer a reality 
> better than the one that grew, stigmergically, socially, naturally are most 
> likely wrong.
>
> But I have *never* insisted there is such a thing as a *free* market. 
> Everything that seems to be "natural" is constrained by the engineering of 
> the agents in and around it, even if those agents are termites or bacteria. 
> Whatever the Robin Hood foundation might mean by "free market", their very 
> use of the term means I would not support them in any way. The term "free 
> market" is a trigger phrase for this delicate snowflake. >8^D And I've 
> already blown several cherries at billionaire phlanthropists. Ptouie. E.g. 
> Bill Gates' magnanimity comes at the cost of decades of slimy and 
> exploitative practices. It's reputation laundering in the extreme. If Bill 
> Gates really gave a flying fsck about these things, he should have begun 
> working on them *before* (or instead of) exploiting the world to make siphon 
> off and concentrate billions of dollars.
>
> So, I tend to stick with established charities with proven track records 
> including both the united way and the red cross. My tiny personal donations 
> are doled out at the end of the year to organizations like mozilla, MAPS, 
> software in the public interest, etc. with ZERO regard to how "efficient" or 
> "effective" they are. And my real contributions are paying (and voting for) 
> taxes and buying goods and services from the smallest businesses and co-ops I 
> can find.
>
> On 4/22/20 1:04 PM, 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[thompnickson2]

Ed,

 

Wait a minute:  these young folks of the sixties were a hypothetical!  I can 
make them as brown or as lower class or as native American as I like.  Don’t 
Mess With My Mythos.  

 

Nick

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Edward Angel
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 3:30 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

Nick,

 

I have no problem with anyone wanting to support their local barista. Please 
remember also that the Food Bank really needs funds.

 

I do have a problem with your view of the 60’s. Those young folks you remember 
were almost 100% white middle class kids, Almost no blacks, hispanics, native 
americans or asians. At that time poverty was far higher than it is today. 
Medical care was not available to large parts of the population. And then there 
was the rest of the world at that time.

 

By fixating on the local situation, we tend to forget about the bigger world 
which is suffering far more than us. Countries across Asia and Africa are 
dealing with the virus in addition to refugees, lack of medical facilities, the 
impossibility of social distancing and many other factors. Lots of information 
on the web as to how bad the situation is. There are organizations combating 
these factors that are worth paying attention to.

 

Ed

___


Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon

Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 
<mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu> 

505-453-4944 (cell)
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel





On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>  wrote:

 

Hi Steve, 

 

Thanks, Steve, 

 

I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an organization 
dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  When asked where 
we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it where you feel passion, 
because that is where you are likely to give it again.  I confess I feel 
passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s would have been  in graduate 
programs, or art or music schools, teaching, learning, inspiring, but are 
instead meagerly supporting their passions by making me coffee.  And very good 
coffee at that.  So that’s where my money goes.  Robin Hood 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation>  might be better for Glen 
because “According to Fortune 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(magazine)>  magazine, "Robin Hood was a 
pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that embraces 
free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to measure the 
effectiveness of grants, it is a place where strategies to alleviate urban 
poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual plans are coldly discarded, and its 
staff of 66 hatches radical new ideas."[ 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation#cite_note-fm-2> ”

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52 PM
To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

I tipped Ohori's staff, hoping that success there will maybe encourage lateral 
transmission to other restaurants.

I also found Sweetwater on goFundMe and gave them a little "taste" even though 
I've only been there once. 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/50KSWnm

Glen made the point with me at one point before "the time of COVID19" (on or 
off line, I'm not sure) that the "independent spirit" of *only* helping those 
you know or close to you is a little ??? (Narcissistic is my word).  

I still feel it is important to NOT *use* global/national/organized fundraisers 
as a way to appease guilt (and therefore responsibility).   The pre-COVID city 
signs that went up trying to discourage panhandling on streetcorners were good 
for illuminating the paradoxes.   I didn't *want* people to *feel the need to* 
stand on street corners and know that supporting local non-profits that help 
the the homeless and otherwise marginalized helps *most* of those folks...  yet 
at the same time, it felt good in another way to hand out a set of chemical 
ha

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[uǝlƃ ☣]

ProPublica's thing seems good too:

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/362193608

On 4/22/20 2:20 PM, Angel Edward wrote:
> Go to Charity Navigator or Charity Watch. There are others. They’ll give you 
> access to the IRS forms and more importantly give you how much of thir funds 
> are spent on programs.


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ

.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[thompnickson2]

Hi Glen, 

Yeh, in retrospect, the Wikipedia entry just doesn't seem to do jusrtice to the 
radicalism of Robin Hood's current leader, Wes Moore.  So here's the podcast.  
It's Preet Brahara's Stay Tuned, and it's only the first part. 
https://www.omnycontent.com/d/playlist/aaea4e69-af51-495e-afc9-a9760146922b/0236a31f-71e0-49dd-97f8-aac7015df30b/370e1fbf-45d4-42d9-96fd-aac7015df319/podcast.rss

If you had a few minutes ... . 

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 2:36 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

Heh, it's funny how something you say can be perfectly inverted by the audience 
to mean the opposite of what you intended. The Telephone Game is always 
relevant.

My point to Steve was about "effective altruism", the idea that the 
philanthropist has any idea whatsoever of the relative optimality of one 
charity compared to another. My position is one of ignorance and against the 
(mostly wealthy, tech-savvy, arrogant) person's most likely *mistaken* belief 
in their own competence, especially in a domain that is fundamentally different 
from where they operate "professionally". My point to Steve was that 
meritocracy is a sham and a sibling effect to the Great Man Theory.

Now, to the extent that my reading of von Hayek (not Friedman) argued for 
market forces because it is *arrogant* to pretend you can design a system more 
efficient than the one nature relaxes into, then I would argue for such 
natural, organic solutions over engineered ones. But that's precisely *because* 
those who think they can singularly, themselves, engineer a reality better than 
the one that grew, stigmergically, socially, naturally are most likely wrong.

But I have *never* insisted there is such a thing as a *free* market. 
Everything that seems to be "natural" is constrained by the engineering of the 
agents in and around it, even if those agents are termites or bacteria. 
Whatever the Robin Hood foundation might mean by "free market", their very use 
of the term means I would not support them in any way. The term "free market" 
is a trigger phrase for this delicate snowflake. >8^D And I've already blown 
several cherries at billionaire phlanthropists. Ptouie. E.g. Bill Gates' 
magnanimity comes at the cost of decades of slimy and exploitative practices. 
It's reputation laundering in the extreme. If Bill Gates really gave a flying 
fsck about these things, he should have begun working on them *before* (or 
instead of) exploiting the world to make siphon off and concentrate billions of 
dollars.

So, I tend to stick with established charities with proven track records 
including both the united way and the red cross. My tiny personal donations are 
doled out at the end of the year to organizations like mozilla, MAPS, software 
in the public interest, etc. with ZERO regard to how "efficient" or "effective" 
they are. And my real contributions are paying (and voting for) taxes and 
buying goods and services from the smallest businesses and co-ops I can find.

On 4/22/20 1:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an 
> organization dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  
> When asked where we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it where 
> you feel passion, because that is where you are likely to give it again.  I 
> confess I feel passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s would have been 
>  in graduate programs, or art or music schools, teaching, learning, 
> inspiring, but are instead meagerly supporting their passions by making me 
> coffee.  And very good coffee at that.  So that’s where my money goes.  Robin 
> Hood <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation> might be better 
> for Glen because “According to /Fortune 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(magazine)>/ magazine, "Robin Hood was 
> a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that 
> embraces free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to 
> measure the effectiveness of grants, it is a place where strategies to 
> alleviate urban poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual plans are coldly 
> discarded, and its staff of 66 hatches radical new ideas."^[ 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation#cite_note-fm-2> ”


--
☣ uǝlƃ
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam uns

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Edward Angel]

Nick,

I have no problem with anyone wanting to support their local barista. Please 
remember also that the Food Bank really needs funds.

I do have a problem with your view of the 60’s. Those young folks you remember 
were almost 100% white middle class kids, Almost no blacks, hispanics, native 
americans or asians. At that time poverty was far higher than it is today. 
Medical care was not available to large parts of the population. And then there 
was the rest of the world at that time.

By fixating on the local situation, we tend to forget about the bigger world 
which is suffering far more than us. Countries across Asia and Africa are 
dealing with the virus in addition to refugees, lack of medical facilities, the 
impossibility of social distancing and many other factors. Lots of information 
on the web as to how bad the situation is. There are organizations combating 
these factors that are worth paying attention to.

Ed
___

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) an...@cs.unm.edu 
<mailto:an...@cs.unm.edu>
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel 
<http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel>

> On Apr 22, 2020, at 2:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Steve, 
>  
> Thanks, Steve, 
>  
> I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an organization 
> dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  When asked where 
> we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it where you feel passion, 
> because that is where you are likely to give it again.  I confess I feel 
> passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s would have been  in graduate 
> programs, or art or music schools, teaching, learning, inspiring, but are 
> instead meagerly supporting their passions by making me coffee.  And very 
> good coffee at that.  So that’s where my money goes.  Robin Hood 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation> might be better for 
> Glen because “According to Fortune 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(magazine)> magazine, "Robin Hood was 
> a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that 
> embraces free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to 
> measure the effectiveness of grants, it is a place where strategies to 
> alleviate urban poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual plans are coldly 
> discarded, and its staff of 66 hatches radical new ideas."[ 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation#cite_note-fm-2>”
>  
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ 
> <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
>  
>  
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
> Behalf Of Steven A Smith
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52 PM
> To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund
>  
> I tipped Ohori's staff, hoping that success there will maybe encourage 
> lateral transmission to other restaurants.
> I also found Sweetwater on goFundMe and gave them a little "taste" even 
> though I've only been there once. 
> https://www.gofundme.com/f/50KSWnm <https://www.gofundme.com/f/50KSWnm>
> Glen made the point with me at one point before "the time of COVID19" (on or 
> off line, I'm not sure) that the "independent spirit" of *only* helping those 
> you know or close to you is a little ??? (Narcissistic is my word).  
> I still feel it is important to NOT *use* global/national/organized 
> fundraisers as a way to appease guilt (and therefore responsibility).   The 
> pre-COVID city signs that went up trying to discourage panhandling on 
> streetcorners were good for illuminating the paradoxes.   I didn't *want* 
> people to *feel the need to* stand on street corners and know that supporting 
> local non-profits that help the the homeless and otherwise marginalized helps 
> *most* of those folks...  yet at the same time, it felt good in another way 
> to hand out a set of chemical hand/toe-warmers, a bar of chocolate, and a 
> couple of bucks to those with the fortitude, or the desperation, (or the 
> entrepreneurial spirit) to stand on the corners.   
> I don't have any answers... and this pandemic has offered the mixed blessing 
> of forcing me to consider a lot of different questions.   If my garden this 
> year begins to produce, I think I'll be setting up a self-serve farm

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Angel Edward]

Go to Charity Navigator or Charity Watch. There are others. They’ll give you 
access to the IRS forms and more importantly give you how much of thir funds 
are spent on programs.

Ed 
__

Ed Angel

Founding Director, Art, Research, Technology and Science Laboratory (ARTS Lab)
Professor Emeritus of Computer Science, University of New Mexico

1017 Sierra Pinon
Santa Fe, NM 87501
505-984-0136 (home) edward.an...@gmail.com
505-453-4944 (cell) http://www.cs.unm.edu/~angel

> On Apr 22, 2020, at 3:17 PM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> 
> Whenever I get drawn to contributing to a charity, usually based on 
> sentimental TV ads, I send them an email and ask how to access their IRS Form 
> 990, which has to be publicly available, usually via a web page.  The last 
> time I did this was for Shriners' Hospital for Children.  If I read the form 
> correctly, in a recent year they had $700,000,000 in income, paid 
> $500,000,000 in executive salaries and  fundraising.  I don't believe 
> remaining $200,000,000 all went to medical and family travel/lodging 
> expenses.  But I may not be reading it right.  Any accountants out there?
> 
> Frank
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:36 PM uǝlƃ ☣  > wrote:
> Heh, it's funny how something you say can be perfectly inverted by the 
> audience to mean the opposite of what you intended. The Telephone Game is 
> always relevant.
> 
> My point to Steve was about "effective altruism", the idea that the 
> philanthropist has any idea whatsoever of the relative optimality of one 
> charity compared to another. My position is one of ignorance and against the 
> (mostly wealthy, tech-savvy, arrogant) person's most likely *mistaken* belief 
> in their own competence, especially in a domain that is fundamentally 
> different from where they operate "professionally". My point to Steve was 
> that meritocracy is a sham and a sibling effect to the Great Man Theory.
> 
> Now, to the extent that my reading of von Hayek (not Friedman) argued for 
> market forces because it is *arrogant* to pretend you can design a system 
> more efficient than the one nature relaxes into, then I would argue for such 
> natural, organic solutions over engineered ones. But that's precisely 
> *because* those who think they can singularly, themselves, engineer a reality 
> better than the one that grew, stigmergically, socially, naturally are most 
> likely wrong.
> 
> But I have *never* insisted there is such a thing as a *free* market. 
> Everything that seems to be "natural" is constrained by the engineering of 
> the agents in and around it, even if those agents are termites or bacteria. 
> Whatever the Robin Hood foundation might mean by "free market", their very 
> use of the term means I would not support them in any way. The term "free 
> market" is a trigger phrase for this delicate snowflake. >8^D And I've 
> already blown several cherries at billionaire phlanthropists. Ptouie. E.g. 
> Bill Gates' magnanimity comes at the cost of decades of slimy and 
> exploitative practices. It's reputation laundering in the extreme. If Bill 
> Gates really gave a flying fsck about these things, he should have begun 
> working on them *before* (or instead of) exploiting the world to make siphon 
> off and concentrate billions of dollars.
> 
> So, I tend to stick with established charities with proven track records 
> including both the united way and the red cross. My tiny personal donations 
> are doled out at the end of the year to organizations like mozilla, MAPS, 
> software in the public interest, etc. with ZERO regard to how "efficient" or 
> "effective" they are. And my real contributions are paying (and voting for) 
> taxes and buying goods and services from the smallest businesses and co-ops I 
> can find.
> 
> On 4/22/20 1:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
> > I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an 
> > organization dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  
> > When asked where we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it 
> > where you feel passion, because that is where you are likely to give it 
> > again.  I confess I feel passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s 
> > would have been  in graduate programs, or art or music schools, teaching, 
> > learning, inspiring, but are instead meagerly supporting their passions by 
> > making me coffee.  And very good coffee at that.  So that’s where my money 
> > goes.  Robin Hood  > > might be better for 
> > Glen because “According to /Fortune 
> >  > >/ magazine, "Robin Hood 
> > was a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that 
> > embraces free-market forces. 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Frank Wimberly]

Whenever I get drawn to contributing to a charity, usually based on
sentimental TV ads, I send them an email and ask how to access their IRS
Form 990, which has to be publicly available, usually via a web page.  The
last time I did this was for Shriners' Hospital for Children.  If I read
the form correctly, in a recent year they had $700,000,000 in income, paid
$500,000,000 in executive salaries and  fundraising.  I don't believe
remaining $200,000,000 all went to medical and family travel/lodging
expenses.  But I may not be reading it right.  Any accountants out there?

Frank

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:36 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> Heh, it's funny how something you say can be perfectly inverted by the
> audience to mean the opposite of what you intended. The Telephone Game is
> always relevant.
>
> My point to Steve was about "effective altruism", the idea that the
> philanthropist has any idea whatsoever of the relative optimality of one
> charity compared to another. My position is one of ignorance and against
> the (mostly wealthy, tech-savvy, arrogant) person's most likely *mistaken*
> belief in their own competence, especially in a domain that is
> fundamentally different from where they operate "professionally". My point
> to Steve was that meritocracy is a sham and a sibling effect to the Great
> Man Theory.
>
> Now, to the extent that my reading of von Hayek (not Friedman) argued for
> market forces because it is *arrogant* to pretend you can design a system
> more efficient than the one nature relaxes into, then I would argue for
> such natural, organic solutions over engineered ones. But that's precisely
> *because* those who think they can singularly, themselves, engineer a
> reality better than the one that grew, stigmergically, socially, naturally
> are most likely wrong.
>
> But I have *never* insisted there is such a thing as a *free* market.
> Everything that seems to be "natural" is constrained by the engineering of
> the agents in and around it, even if those agents are termites or bacteria.
> Whatever the Robin Hood foundation might mean by "free market", their very
> use of the term means I would not support them in any way. The term "free
> market" is a trigger phrase for this delicate snowflake. >8^D And I've
> already blown several cherries at billionaire phlanthropists. Ptouie. E.g.
> Bill Gates' magnanimity comes at the cost of decades of slimy and
> exploitative practices. It's reputation laundering in the extreme. If Bill
> Gates really gave a flying fsck about these things, he should have begun
> working on them *before* (or instead of) exploiting the world to make
> siphon off and concentrate billions of dollars.
>
> So, I tend to stick with established charities with proven track records
> including both the united way and the red cross. My tiny personal donations
> are doled out at the end of the year to organizations like mozilla, MAPS,
> software in the public interest, etc. with ZERO regard to how "efficient"
> or "effective" they are. And my real contributions are paying (and voting
> for) taxes and buying goods and services from the smallest businesses and
> co-ops I can find.
>
> On 4/22/20 1:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an
> organization dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.
> When asked where we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it
> where you feel passion, because that is where you are likely to give it
> again.  I confess I feel passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s
> would have been  in graduate programs, or art or music schools, teaching,
> learning, inspiring, but are instead meagerly supporting their passions by
> making me coffee.  And very good coffee at that.  So that’s where my money
> goes.  Robin Hood 
> might be better for Glen because “According to /Fortune <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(magazine)>/ magazine, "Robin Hood
> was a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that
> embraces free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to
> measure the effectiveness of grants, it is a place where
> > strategies to alleviate urban poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual
> plans are coldly discarded, and its staff of 66 hatches radical new
> ideas."^[ <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation#cite_note-fm-2> ”
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...
>  . ...
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>


-- 
Frank Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Heh, it's funny how something you say can be perfectly inverted by the audience 
to mean the opposite of what you intended. The Telephone Game is always 
relevant.

My point to Steve was about "effective altruism", the idea that the 
philanthropist has any idea whatsoever of the relative optimality of one 
charity compared to another. My position is one of ignorance and against the 
(mostly wealthy, tech-savvy, arrogant) person's most likely *mistaken* belief 
in their own competence, especially in a domain that is fundamentally different 
from where they operate "professionally". My point to Steve was that 
meritocracy is a sham and a sibling effect to the Great Man Theory.

Now, to the extent that my reading of von Hayek (not Friedman) argued for 
market forces because it is *arrogant* to pretend you can design a system more 
efficient than the one nature relaxes into, then I would argue for such 
natural, organic solutions over engineered ones. But that's precisely *because* 
those who think they can singularly, themselves, engineer a reality better than 
the one that grew, stigmergically, socially, naturally are most likely wrong.

But I have *never* insisted there is such a thing as a *free* market. 
Everything that seems to be "natural" is constrained by the engineering of the 
agents in and around it, even if those agents are termites or bacteria. 
Whatever the Robin Hood foundation might mean by "free market", their very use 
of the term means I would not support them in any way. The term "free market" 
is a trigger phrase for this delicate snowflake. >8^D And I've already blown 
several cherries at billionaire phlanthropists. Ptouie. E.g. Bill Gates' 
magnanimity comes at the cost of decades of slimy and exploitative practices. 
It's reputation laundering in the extreme. If Bill Gates really gave a flying 
fsck about these things, he should have begun working on them *before* (or 
instead of) exploiting the world to make siphon off and concentrate billions of 
dollars.

So, I tend to stick with established charities with proven track records 
including both the united way and the red cross. My tiny personal donations are 
doled out at the end of the year to organizations like mozilla, MAPS, software 
in the public interest, etc. with ZERO regard to how "efficient" or "effective" 
they are. And my real contributions are paying (and voting for) taxes and 
buying goods and services from the smallest businesses and co-ops I can find.

On 4/22/20 1:04 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
> I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an organization 
> dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  When asked where 
> we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it where you feel passion, 
> because that is where you are likely to give it again.  I confess I feel 
> passion for these young folks, who in the 60’s would have been  in graduate 
> programs, or art or music schools, teaching, learning, inspiring, but are 
> instead meagerly supporting their passions by making me coffee.  And very 
> good coffee at that.  So that’s where my money goes.  Robin Hood 
>  might be better for 
> Glen because “According to /Fortune 
> / magazine, "Robin Hood was 
> a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that 
> embraces free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to 
> measure the effectiveness of grants, it is a place where
> strategies to alleviate urban poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual plans 
> are coldly discarded, and its staff of 66 hatches radical new ideas."^[ 
>  ”


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[thompnickson2]

Hi Steve, 

 

Thanks, Steve, 

 

I was listening to a podcast by the guy who runs Robin Hood, an organization
dedicated to getting at the institutional roots of poverty.  When asked
where we should give money in this crisis, he said, give it where you feel
passion, because that is where you are likely to give it again.  I confess I
feel passion for these young folks, who in the 60's would have been  in
graduate programs, or art or music schools, teaching, learning, inspiring,
but are instead meagerly supporting their passions by making me coffee.  And
very good coffee at that.  So that's where my money goes.  Robin Hood
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation>  might be better for
Glen because "According to Fortune
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune_(magazine)>  magazine, "Robin Hood
was a pioneer in what is now called venture philanthropy, or charity that
embraces free-market forces. An early practitioner of using metrics to
measure the effectiveness of grants, it is a place where strategies to
alleviate urban poverty are hotly debated, ineffectual plans are coldly
discarded, and its staff of 66 hatches radical new ideas."[
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Hood_Foundation#cite_note-fm-2> "

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:52 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

I tipped Ohori's staff, hoping that success there will maybe encourage
lateral transmission to other restaurants.

I also found Sweetwater on goFundMe and gave them a little "taste" even
though I've only been there once. 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/50KSWnm

Glen made the point with me at one point before "the time of COVID19" (on or
off line, I'm not sure) that the "independent spirit" of *only* helping
those you know or close to you is a little ??? (Narcissistic is my word).  

I still feel it is important to NOT *use* global/national/organized
fundraisers as a way to appease guilt (and therefore responsibility).   The
pre-COVID city signs that went up trying to discourage panhandling on
streetcorners were good for illuminating the paradoxes.   I didn't *want*
people to *feel the need to* stand on street corners and know that
supporting local non-profits that help the the homeless and otherwise
marginalized helps *most* of those folks...  yet at the same time, it felt
good in another way to hand out a set of chemical hand/toe-warmers, a bar of
chocolate, and a couple of bucks to those with the fortitude, or the
desperation, (or the entrepreneurial spirit) to stand on the corners.   

I don't have any answers... and this pandemic has offered the mixed blessing
of forcing me to consider a lot of different questions.   If my garden this
year begins to produce, I think I'll be setting up a self-serve farm-stand
at the top of my drive with three options:  A) if you need some, takes some;
B) if you can afford a few $$, drop it in the collection box; C) do someone
you know in more need than you a solid...  bring them some food or give
*them* the $$ you would have left in the box.

I may also use that "farm stand" as a way to gift away some the 2 cords of
books I still have filling a covered trailer...  like a "little library" but
with a larger selection.  "farm and book stand"?   

Meanwhile, I hope we all find more ways to be kind and "pay it forward,
backward, and sideways".

- Steve

On 4/22/20 12:40 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com
<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>  wrote:

Ed, 

 

Thanks for your kind note. 

 

If you'll dump a little change into "mine", I will dump a little change into
"yours".  I just think it's way to help these folks feel that somebody has
noticed what they are doing and is aware of what has happened to them.  

 

Thanks, 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> 
On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:29 PM
To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

Nick -

Thanks for the link.  Ohori's is not my goto, but I'm 100% with the spirit.
I have had no traction on trying to extend this kind of help TO my regular
go-tos.   I am of a mind that at the very least, my weekly *tip* budget
could go straight into the same pockets it used to with no har

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Steven A Smith]

I tipped Ohori's staff, hoping that success there will maybe encourage
lateral transmission to other restaurants.

I also found Sweetwater on goFundMe and gave them a little "taste" even
though I've only been there once.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/50KSWnm

Glen made the point with me at one point before "the time of COVID19"
(on or off line, I'm not sure) that the "independent spirit" of *only*
helping those you know or close to you is a little ??? (Narcissistic is
my word). 

I still feel it is important to NOT *use* global/national/organized
fundraisers as a way to appease guilt (and therefore responsibility).  
The pre-COVID city signs that went up trying to discourage panhandling
on streetcorners were good for illuminating the paradoxes.   I didn't
*want* people to *feel the need to* stand on street corners and know
that supporting local non-profits that help the the homeless and
otherwise marginalized helps *most* of those folks...  yet at the same
time, it felt good in another way to hand out a set of chemical
hand/toe-warmers, a bar of chocolate, and a couple of bucks to those
with the fortitude, or the desperation, (or the entrepreneurial spirit)
to stand on the corners.  

I don't have any answers... and this pandemic has offered the mixed
blessing of forcing me to consider a lot of different questions.   If my
garden this year begins to produce, I think I'll be setting up a
self-serve farm-stand at the top of my drive with three options:  A) if
you need some, takes some; B) if you can afford a few $$, drop it in the
collection box; C) do someone you know in more need than you a solid... 
bring them some food or give *them* the $$ you would have left in the box.

I may also use that "farm stand" as a way to gift away some the 2 cords
of books I still have filling a covered trailer...  like a "little
library" but with a larger selection.  "farm and book stand"?  

Meanwhile, I hope we all find more ways to be kind and "pay it forward,
backward, and sideways".

- Steve

On 4/22/20 12:40 PM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Ed,
>
>  
>
> Thanks for your kind note.
>
>  
>
> If you’ll dump a little change into “mine”, I will dump a little
> change into “yours”.  I just think it’s way to help these folks feel
> that somebody has noticed what they are doing and is aware of what has
> happened to them. 
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
>  
>
> Nick
>
>  
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Steven A Smith
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:29 PM
> *To:* friam@redfish.com
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff
> Relief Fund
>
>  
>
> Nick -
>
> Thanks for the link.  Ohori's is not my goto, but I'm 100% with the
> spirit.  I have had no traction on trying to extend this kind of help
> TO my regular go-tos.   I am of a mind that at the very least, my
> weekly *tip* budget could go straight into the same pockets it used to
> with no harm to me...  and as you point out, my entire luxury
> food/services budget could go that way as well.   
>
> I'll check for other go-fund-me's in SFe and would love to hear from
> others who have discovered similar to yours here.
>
> - Steve
>
> To The Mother Church,
>
> As you know, I am addicted to coffee and particularly to coffee
> houses, and particularly to Ohori’s-next-to-Kaune’s, where I like
> to loll in the sunshine of a late afternoon like the flea-bitten
> old dog that I am.  Over the years I have come to befriend and
> greatly admire the Barista’s of Santa Fe.  They remind me of
> graduate students.  Many of them are using barista work to make
> possible independent scholarship, artistic careers, and musical
> careers, pursued for the sheer love of it.  So when the virus hit
> in March and many of them lost work, I tried to set up some sort
> of a fund to help them. But not being gig-economy type,  I
> couldn’t see how to do it. 
>
> Now, to my delight, one of the workers has set up a gofundme site.
>
> 
> https://www.gofundme.com/f/ohoris-staff-relief-fund?utm_source=customer_medium=copy_link-tip_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet
>
> I am hoping that those of you who have shared my pleasure in
> dealing with these young folks will make some sort of a donation,
> if only as a token of your support. 
>
> I am figuring it this way:  I am saving about 7 – 10 dollars a day
> in latte’s and zucchini bread (AND lost three pounds).  I figure
> 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[thompnickson2]

Ed, 

 

Thanks for your kind note. 

 

If you'll dump a little change into "mine", I will dump a little change into
"yours".  I just think it's way to help these folks feel that somebody has
noticed what they are doing and is aware of what has happened to them.  

 

Thanks, 

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:29 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

 

Nick -

Thanks for the link.  Ohori's is not my goto, but I'm 100% with the spirit.
I have had no traction on trying to extend this kind of help TO my regular
go-tos.   I am of a mind that at the very least, my weekly *tip* budget
could go straight into the same pockets it used to with no harm to me...
and as you point out, my entire luxury food/services budget could go that
way as well.   

I'll check for other go-fund-me's in SFe and would love to hear from others
who have discovered similar to yours here.

- Steve

To The Mother Church, 

As you know, I am addicted to coffee and particularly to coffee houses, and
particularly to Ohori's-next-to-Kaune's, where I like to loll in the
sunshine of a late afternoon like the flea-bitten old dog that I am.  Over
the years I have come to befriend and greatly admire the Barista's of Santa
Fe.  They remind me of graduate students.  Many of them are using barista
work to make possible independent scholarship, artistic careers, and musical
careers, pursued for the sheer love of it.  So when the virus hit in March
and many of them lost work, I tried to set up some sort of a fund to help
them. But not being gig-economy type,  I couldn't see how to do it.  

Now, to my delight, one of the workers has set up a gofundme site. 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/ohoris-staff-relief-fund?utm_source=customer
<https://www.gofundme.com/f/ohoris-staff-relief-fund?utm_source=customer
_medium=copy_link-tip_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet>
_medium=copy_link-tip_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet

I am hoping that those of you who have shared my pleasure in dealing with
these young folks will make some sort of a donation, if only as a token of
your support.  

I am figuring it this way:  I am saving about 7 - 10 dollars a day in
latte's and zucchini bread (AND lost three pounds).  I figure that savings
ought to go to them.  

It would be a great kindness to me if you would pitch in. 

All the best, 

Nick 

 





.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...
 . ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 

Re: [FRIAM] Fundraiser by Christina Z. : Ohoris Staff Relief Fund

[Steven A Smith]

Nick -

Thanks for the link.  Ohori's is not my goto, but I'm 100% with the
spirit.  I have had no traction on trying to extend this kind of help TO
my regular go-tos.   I am of a mind that at the very least, my weekly
*tip* budget could go straight into the same pockets it used to with no
harm to me...  and as you point out, my entire luxury food/services
budget could go that way as well.   

I'll check for other go-fund-me's in SFe and would love to hear from
others who have discovered similar to yours here.

- Steve

> To The Mother Church,
>
> As you know, I am addicted to coffee and particularly to coffee
> houses, and particularly to Ohori’s-next-to-Kaune’s, where I like to
> loll in the sunshine of a late afternoon like the flea-bitten old dog
> that I am.  Over the years I have come to befriend and greatly admire
> the Barista’s of Santa Fe.  They remind me of graduate students.  Many
> of them are using barista work to make possible independent
> scholarship, artistic careers, and musical careers, pursued for the
> sheer love of it.  So when the virus hit in March and many of them
> lost work, I tried to set up some sort of a fund to help them. But not
> being gig-economy type,  I couldn’t see how to do it. 
>
> Now, to my delight, one of the workers has set up a gofundme site.
>
> https://www.gofundme.com/f/ohoris-staff-relief-fund?utm_source=customer_medium=copy_link-tip_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet
>
> I am hoping that those of you who have shared my pleasure in dealing
> with these young folks will make some sort of a donation, if only as a
> token of your support. 
>
> I am figuring it this way:  I am saving about 7 – 10 dollars a day in
> latte’s and zucchini bread (AND lost three pounds).  I figure that
> savings ought to go to them. 
>
> It would be a great kindness to me if you would pitch in.
>
> All the best,
>
> Nick
>
>  
>
>
> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... 
>  . ...
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ 
.-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ...  
. ...
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/