Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 *gigantic snip* Besides the discussion about Germany etc have a short peek at GB (GB is also in the EU, thus drifting in the same fascist direction as Germany): Animal rights activist hit with RIPA key decrypt demand http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/14/ripa_encryption_key_notice/ Cheers! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHPA6hUY3eBSqOgOMRAt3/AKCnqhB5FW0nlVKGDH2LxyDBcNBkhACgpRDn 7/4LBN9gdz+WRcCa4ZDaERo= =wwS8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Standing Up Against German Laws - Project HayNeedle
> Paul, > > 1. As I understand, the monitoring is not as wide as you described. > > 2. Even if, it is there, it is for Public good. It is to protect you > against > terrorism. What terrorism? There was not a *single* death caused by 'terrorists' in Germany for about thirty years now. There were a few 'incidents' in the last two years trying to justify this spying on the people, and they were all very bad fakes -- obvious fakes. > Yes, this amounts to big brother is watching, but many times, > that is essential. Remember USA 9/11/2001, Yeah, nice inside job. > London 7/7/2006, First, this also could have been a fake. We'll never know. But I can give you one very good advice: Alwas ask the question the old romans also asked themselves, 'cui bono?', 'to whose benefit'. When you ask this question and you're looking at the world that changed since 1989/90, when the soviet union and several other countries disappeared, then you see that this huge amount of incidents etc. is far away from being coincidence. It is *planned*. Some people know that it's not possible to go on like this forever, and they try to get most out of it. Second, London is the city with the highest density of CCTVs installed and active, and already was 7/7/2006. Why did it happen anyways? Why did this 'terror' attacks earlier this year happen? Catch my draft? Third, there was this incident when passengers were caught because they wanted 'to blow an airplane' (using some liquid). Funnily, when the media got their stories, all of those imprisoned could walk away because there was nothing. Furthermore, those dangerous terrorists didn't even have *tickets* for that flight. How to get onboard without raising suspicion? Of course, having no ticket available. Geees! > India > (many many incidents). India is a complete different story and has nothing to do with 'democracy in danger' in the western countries. > Have trust in your government. Nowadays, 'governments' are not the entities they were defined as earlier in history. One can prove almost *any* government of western countries as being a fascist one (see work of Naomi Wolf [0]). This is rather unfortunate, but backs the impression that they (the 'elite', as they call themselves) knows that this game is happening to end soon. > I believe, German > government machinery is reasonable efficient and honest. Yes, one could see this very well in WWII, when millions of jews were murdered highly efficiently. Back then, in the years before 1933, *exactly* the same happened as nowadays: * One party rule (today there's two parties, but they don't behave differently); * Spying on people; * The fusioning of police, military, and secret service (after WWII it was defined in Germany's constitution that never again those services are allowed to work together as it was back then); * creating FUD; back then, it was the jews; nowadays, it's moslems and 'terrorists'. This leads to so 'funny' stories like people getting arrested for nothing, just because they know terms like 'gentrification'... > If > communication transactions > are logged, what is the harm? Do you announce when you go to the bathroom, make love to your GF/wife, brush your teeth, eat, drink, sleep, etc? > In case of any incident, how will the > government investigate? If you are a security professional, don't you > advise > your client for all this like audit logs etc. Huh? It's about civil rights. *Human* rights, not about the need to obfuscate. The latter shouldn't be necessary in a *democracy* (what Germany is *not*, at least not compared to the original meaning of this word!). > 3. Even if, you need to protest, please do. This is your right. At the moment, yes, but for how long? > But, > this is > not the way to protest. Correct. > Even if you say that technically you are not > breaking any law, the difference between you and a law breaker is very > thin. > If you want to protect, use democratic methods. Write about it in > print media. They are under control. The constitution of Germany states 'Eine Zensur findet nicht statt.' [1], that there's nothing like censorship. But this is just not true. > Use electronic media to mobilise opinion. Create Blogs. > Send e-mails. Like in china? In Germany there *are* servers that are taken off the net. Censorship. > Lobby with MPs (members of Bundestag). Senseless. Have a look at the protocol of Friday's decision. There were politicians in the media that afterwards said that they felt very bad about giving their vote for this, but they still did. Guess why... > If your ideas will appeal to > people, > many will raise voice. No, you have to raise voices of *german* people. That is almost impossible. Believe me, I'm a politically active person in Germany. (But again, have a look at the history books. And this is what makes the things that dangerous that happen here. The majority of people just don't care!) > Ultimately, law is manifestation of social > aspirati
Re: [Full-disclosure] Jack Bauer Gets Jailed!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus "Slythers Bro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spake on Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:29:30 +0200: > n3td3v here it's Full Disclosure, not a gay tv serie fan mailing list didn't know canadians are also homophobic. what a shame. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (OpenBSD) iD8DBQFHDol3UY3eBSqOgOMRCuloAJwKIGd0HrAdWPEMjFExbRmglRH5vQCgq3S+ D86fJLqdeVXm4p3EvdoqHBA= =FJbT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Recall: UNSUBSCRIBE
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Thus "Jones, Jeff (Enterprise Security)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spake on Mon, 8 Oct 2007 15:27:48 -0400: > Jones, Jeff (Enterprise Security) would like to recall the message, > "UNSUBSCRIBE". Headers? > >>> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential, may contain > >>> legal, > professional or other privileged information, and are intended solely > for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, do not use > the information in this e-mail in any way, delete this e-mail and > notify the sender. CEG-IP2 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (OpenBSD) iD8DBQFHCoiIUY3eBSqOgOMRCrA5AKCXU+ZSHq9VZzLg0nJZsNeFOht3hgCePdxY TMg1o+2/NKkhzBGJoMR+UEc= =t4qx -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] What do you guys make of this?
thus Joel R. Helgeson spake: > There was a time in foreign policy where no country, no diplomat would make > a foreign policy decision without first asking "what does Russia think of > this?". No. It was 'Soviet Union', not 'Russia'. > Well, Russia is no longer a super power, Well, actually, it is. It has thousands of nuclear warheads, it has more advanced fighter jets and bombers than the US, it has more advanced space technology and ICBMs, submarines, education & healthcare... It has _plenty_ of ressources the US has to go to war for (natural gas, oil, etc). > the fall from which left > Putin feeling excluded. He's always wanted to get Russia back to superpower > status, he wants his Mother Russia to be significant again. Propaganda. > For years, the Russian economy was cash strapped. No. It suffered from a few people that stole what the people's was. > Just recently Putin > revamped the entire tax system and implemented a 12% flat tax. For the first > time since the collapse, the tax revenues are POURING in. They now have > enough gas to fuel a plane, and now they want to get back into being viewed > as a superpower, to be 'feared', they desperately want to matter again, to > be important. > > So, they're acting out in an aggressive manner - using tried and true cold > war era tactics. It comes across to me as childish, throwing a fit just to > get attention. If _that_ is childish, what is the US's behaviour then? Oh, sorry, I forgot: Children usually don't rape, kill and spread war^H^H^Hdemocracy. > It is not propaganda, Russia is just trying to say "We're BAACK! > And this time, we've got 31337 H4x0rz!" Blah. Blahblah. > Joel Helgeson > 952-858-9111 9/11? ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] most powerful supercomputer, etc.
thus cybergoth spake: > Interesting movie about religion, conspiracy and shit > http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ Sicko -- http://imdb.com/find?s=all&q=sicko Who Killed the Electric Car? -- http://imdb.com/title/tt0489037/ Loose Change -- http://imdb.com/title/tt0839892/ NB: Korey Rowe's Arrest Makes Him A Political Prisoner http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=3202 So, remember: 2 + 2 = 5 > - Original Message ----- > From: "Timo Schoeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 7:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] most powerful supercomputer, etc. > > > thus [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake: >> Net-Dev's current alias wrote: >> -- >> >> "just like the u.s intelligence >> services allowed a foreign government >> or terrorist group such as al queda >> to do 9/11 as a proof of concept >> to show the american people that a >> "war on terror" was necessary." >> ~~ >> And FDR allowed the Japs to bomb Pearly Harbor, and Lincoln allowed the >> attack on Ft Sumter. >> Hell... Even Leonidas allowed Xerxes to encircle him to help create a >> legend. >> Normally, I would feel obligated to point out that you're an idiot, but >> your reputation is already well established and that won't be necessary. > > No, you are wrong; why does the U.S. government NOT disclose legal > evidence that 'it was not an inside job'? > > (...) > >> Timo Schoeler wrote: >> >> >> maybe some time you realize >> that there are only about 500 >> idiots world-wide that make people >> (i.e. blatant idiots like soldiers) >> fight against each other? >> >> soldiers are murderers... period. >> ~~ > > Too bad I missed it in the first place, to combined reply qua this email: > >> 1) Given your last statement, you should probably consider yourself lucky >> that you aren't in the geographical vicinity of THIS former soldier. > > Huh? Totally regardless of the time one lives in, soldiers are > murderers. Do you have any argumentation against this, i.e. proof that > soldiers do NOT kill other people on behalf of some other idiot that > gives order to do so? > >> 2) People who are prone to silly conspiracy theories should perhaps be a >> bit less sanguine about calling OTHER people idiots. > > See above; proof that 9/11 was NOT an inside job and you did much more > on this topic than the U.S. government; until you can do so, you could > provide health care to those wounded (firefighters, policemen etc) there > -- the U.S. government did NOT (they had to travel to Cuba to get help). > >> 3) Your ability to sleep peacefully in your bed at night, then wake up and >> insult your betters; was granted to you BY a soldier. > > Wrong. The neccessity that the RED ARMY had to fight Nazis was risen by > SOLDIERS (German Nazis). Did you miss logics AND history in school? > (Seems so, otherwise YOU would KNOW that the U.S. entered the war on the > European Continent much too late to have an enemy to fight; it was > already superweak, thanks to the Russians.) > >> In your case, you are >> NOT welcome. > > Go F*** yourself, kid. Or even better, try to get decent health care and > education -- almost impossible in the U.S. It takes only five lines of > the 'Star-spangled banner' to see what it's all about in the U.S.: > > O say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light, > What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming, > Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight > O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? > And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air > ^ > > "Whatever war can do, peace can do better." > (Desmond Mpilo Tutu) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] most powerful supercomputer, etc.
thus [EMAIL PROTECTED] spake: > Net-Dev's current alias wrote: > -- > > "just like the u.s intelligence > services allowed a foreign government > or terrorist group such as al queda > to do 9/11 as a proof of concept > to show the american people that a > "war on terror" was necessary." > ~~ > And FDR allowed the Japs to bomb Pearly Harbor, and Lincoln allowed the > attack on Ft Sumter. > Hell... Even Leonidas allowed Xerxes to encircle him to help create a > legend. > Normally, I would feel obligated to point out that you're an idiot, but > your reputation is already well established and that won't be necessary. No, you are wrong; why does the U.S. government NOT disclose legal evidence that 'it was not an inside job'? (...) > Timo Schoeler wrote: > > > maybe some time you realize > that there are only about 500 > idiots world-wide that make people > (i.e. blatant idiots like soldiers) > fight against each other? > > soldiers are murderers... period. > ~~ Too bad I missed it in the first place, to combined reply qua this email: > 1) Given your last statement, you should probably consider yourself lucky > that you aren't in the geographical vicinity of THIS former soldier. Huh? Totally regardless of the time one lives in, soldiers are murderers. Do you have any argumentation against this, i.e. proof that soldiers do NOT kill other people on behalf of some other idiot that gives order to do so? > 2) People who are prone to silly conspiracy theories should perhaps be a > bit less sanguine about calling OTHER people idiots. See above; proof that 9/11 was NOT an inside job and you did much more on this topic than the U.S. government; until you can do so, you could provide health care to those wounded (firefighters, policemen etc) there -- the U.S. government did NOT (they had to travel to Cuba to get help). > 3) Your ability to sleep peacefully in your bed at night, then wake up and > insult your betters; was granted to you BY a soldier. Wrong. The neccessity that the RED ARMY had to fight Nazis was risen by SOLDIERS (German Nazis). Did you miss logics AND history in school? (Seems so, otherwise YOU would KNOW that the U.S. entered the war on the European Continent much too late to have an enemy to fight; it was already superweak, thanks to the Russians.) > In your case, you are > NOT welcome. Go F*** yourself, kid. Or even better, try to get decent health care and education -- almost impossible in the U.S. It takes only five lines of the 'Star-spangled banner' to see what it's all about in the U.S.: O say, can you see, by the dawn’s early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming, Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight O’er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? And the rockets’ red glare, the bombs bursting in air ^ "Whatever war can do, peace can do better." (Desmond Mpilo Tutu) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] World's most powerful supercomputer goes online (fwd)
thus hack the gov spake: > On 9/2/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:37:11 BST, hack the gov said: >>> On 8/31/07, Jay Sulzberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: now that they have the world's most powerful supercomputer system at thei >> r disposal, what are they going to do with it? >>> absolutely nothing.they're a bunch of pussys sitting infront of their >>> computers with weak bone structures and a bend in their neck from >>> sitting there so long. >> No, between Storm and the Rock Phish stuff, I hardly think they qualify >> as "pussies". Taking in $150M with *one* of their projects makes them >> seriously big time. >> >> http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=7933606&story_id=9723768 >> >>>if they try anything stupid, the secret service >>> will be around to straighten their bendy geekofied necks and crush >>> their bodies into a fluid. >> No, more likely, the Russians will demonstrate their techniques on the >> Secret Service guys. They didn't get to control most of the Russian >> economy by being nice guys. Messing with them gets you seriously *dead*. >> > > i think most americans would hand over their computer to the american > government for a "cyber nuke program" to counter the "cyber threat" by > russia. if i thought russia was "cyber nuking" the west or was about > to, i'd sure let my computer be signed upto the "cyber nuke program", > to make sure my bandwidth killed the russians "cyber nuke". maybe some time you realize that there are only about 500 idiots world-wide that make people (i.e. blatant idiots like soldiers) fight against each other? soldiers are murderers, as are the people who support them. in reality and in the cyber world. period. > this talk is very futuristic, but i think in the future we will need > to get a u.s president to convince the american people that there is a > "cyber threat", and we need your computers to counter incoming "cyber > attacks" by foreign governments and terrorist groups. > > u.s intelligence services might need to allow a foreign government or > a terrorist group to carry out an attack on "cyber infrastructure", as > a proof of concept to show to the american people that a "cyber nuke > program" using u.s citizen computers is necessary. > > just like the u.s intelligence services allowed a foreign government > or terrorist group such as al queda to do 9/11 as a proof of concept > to show the american people that a "war on terror" was necessary. > > before 9/11 there was no "war on terror", just like now there is no > "cyber nuke program", "cyber war on terror" or in general "cyber > terrorism" or "cyber terrorism threat", but if the u.s intelligence > services knew a "cyber terror attack" was planned, they could allow it > to happen, thus creating everything the u.s government need to take > the world into a fully fledged "cyber world war", where the outcome of > that war would very much favor america in its long term interests. > > if this thing is owned by a foreign government or terrorist group, > then i think it would benefit the united states in the long term if > the u.s intelligence services allow a foreign government or a > terrorist group to "cyber attack" western interests as a proof of > concept for political ends to show the american people why a "cyber > nuke program" involving u.s citizen computers is necessary. > > yes, admittedly at the moment it all sounds futuristic and far > reaching, but please link back to this e-mail in the future and you > can say "hey that guy was right!". > > there is no shortage of u.s citizens signing up to fight the "war on > terror" in iraq, afghanistan and elsewhere, so i think the same would > apply to u.s citizens signing up to fight a "cyber war on terror", > where the only difference is the soldiers are computers, fighting in > the name of its country, "cyber soldiers" or "cyber troops" if you > will. > > we need to focus on what a "cyber war" would be in real terms and how > u.s citizens would be asked by the u.s government to be involved in > countering that. > > i think a u.s citizen taking it upon himself to defend its country in > a "cyber war" would be deemed illegal, only u.s citizens who had > signed upto the official u.s "cyber nuke program" and had installed > the official u.s "cyber nuke program" software from CD would be > allowed to have its computer used to counter foreign threats to "cyber > national security" interests. of course, u.s citizens wouldn't be > given the software on the fly, the government would need to verify who > you are first, that you are a u.s citizen and your computer is located > within america for it to be permitted to join the u.s "cyber nuke > program". ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Help with education
thus Troy spake: > I just read this thread... there's certainly some good advice there... > and the requisite goading by some of the more sardonic personalities on > the list... always a pleasure. > > I'm no infosec guru by any means, but as a developer I have more than a > passing interest in the field. Which unfortunately is the exception > rather than the rule in this business. > > I read this list every day, and others as well and one thing I can say > for sure is that you're aiming for a fast moving target... but not an > impossible one to hit. > > Dude said: >> If you want to be a good Security Consultant at the Technical level it >> is important that you have a smattering of everything: programming >> networking, administration, etc.. If you walk into a place and expect >> to start telling people what to do, you should at least have walked a >> mile in their shoes before doing so. This means learning Lotus, >> Exchange, Sendmail, Oracle, MySQL and MSSQL, Linux, BSD, Solaris, >> Windows, etc, ad infinitum. > > That's probably the best advice I've seen in this thread. I've been a > developer/programmer for almost seven years now and have walked in most, > but _not all_ of those shoes, and it really doesn't ever end. (...) To sum it up: Know both your friends AND your enemies... :) Timo ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] OpenBSD owned
thus Suzuki Kawasaki spake: > Was OpenBSD owned ... http://www.openbsd.org no, the machine had hardware problems some days ago, so that does not surprise... ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] OpenBSD owned
thus Suzuki Kawasaki spake: > Was OpenBSD owned ... http://www.openbsd.org Errr, this hardware problem thing was sth. IIRC; however, in the meanwhile, check this :) http://openbsd.org/faq/faq8.html#wwwsolaris ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] War against Iran: Update from front lines
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:40:24 -0600 Tremaine Lea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Iran has a LOT to do with terrorism. They are the biggest state > sponsor of terrorism, followed by Syria. No, biggest state sponsor of terrorism is the USA. > --- > > Tremaine Lea > Network Security Consultant > > Be in pursuit of equality, but not at the expense of excellence. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] War against Iran: Update from front lines
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:25:11 -0600 "Open Phugu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/10/07, United Hackers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > _ _ ___ _ __ ___ ___ _ __ > > | | /| / / _ | / _ \ / __ \/ |/ / / _/ _ \/ _ | / |/ / > > | |/ |/ / __ |/ , _/ / /_/ // _/ // , _/ __ |// > > |__/|__/_/ |_/_/|_| \/_/|_/ /___/_/|_/_/ |_/_/|_/ > >Hackers United against the Threat of Islam > > > > --- > > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE > > ANTI-MUSLIM LEAGUE > > --- > Please go take a Kalashnikov and fire some bullets through your head. > You are NO FSCKING BETTER than Osama bin Laden when he advocates > a jihad against the United States. For once, he is right. > YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE TWIN TOWERS ON 9/11/01 yeah, and it wouldn't make a difference whether it was George W. Bush and his junta or really a figure called 'Osama bin Laden' who initiated this. :) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 19:49:24 -0300 "Carlos Barros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oh my fucking GOD! Are you still replying to this thread??? Yes, in order to spread truth and wisdom to US citizens who still don't even now where Iraq (or Vietnam, or Korea, or or or) is geographically. > I really can't belive that such a stupid thread get this amount of > messages. If you don't have anything to do, go get some bitches out > there and have some fun, and close this stupid thread! Let's close this thread as the US is going to solve itself as a problem to the world soon enough. You're right. This amount of dumbness is something the universe will know to heal :) > On 4/7/07, Peter Dawson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > On 4/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > It can be argued that the German's siege of Leningrad, which > > > lasted almost > > 900 > > > days but they never managed to take the city, was the first > > > indication > > that the > > > Germans had run into trouble... > > > > > > > > > > Operation Barbarossa triggered the downfall of the Nazi's. > > > > "We have only to kick in the door and the whole rotten structure > > will come crashing down" — Adolf Hitler ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 19:22:34 -0400 Paul Hem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/6/07 12:16 PM, "Timo Schoeler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:11:38 +0100 > > "James Rankin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> I seem to remember Britain being in WWII almost from the start, > >> well before the Russians got dragged in by Adolf > >> > >> Still I was only young at the time, I could be mistaken > > > > the trigger was 'the US', which was in context 'the western allies'; > > while Stalin saw Hitler faking very early, the US (i.e., the Bank of > > America -- with one of George W. Bush's grandfathers in the board of > > directors) was still cooperating with Nazi Germany. > > > > it's all in history books... > > > Timo, you're full of shit. sez an american. oh, well... > > > The US (amongst others) came to the european continent on June > > > 6th, > > > 1944. At that time, the red army already conquered more than two > > > thirds of the area of nazi germany. The germans already had lost > > > the war. > > Here's what wikipedia has on this. as someone's mentioned before, 'the winner makes the history'. remember 1984. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch > > " Operation Torch (initially called Operation Gymnast) was the > British-American invasion of French North Africa in World War II > during the North African Campaign, started November 8, 1942." > > "The Soviet Union had pressed the United States and Britain to start > operations in Europe, yes, and here you see that the US was fucking uninterested in saving millions of people's (jews) lifes. thanks for that point! > and open a second front to reduce the pressure > of German forces on the Russian troops. While the American commanders > favored Operation Sledgehammer, landing in Occupied Europe as soon as > possible, the British commanders believed that such a course would > end in disaster. An attack on French North Africa was proposed > instead, which would clear the Axis from North Africa, improve naval > control of the Mediterranean and prepare an invasion of Southern > Europe in 1943. American President Roosevelt suspected the African > operation would rule out an invasion of Europe in 1943 but agreed to > support Churchill." > > The battle of Stalingrad which was the turning point on the Eastern > Front went from August 21, 1942 through February 2, 1943. :) > For you to hint that the battle of Europe was "already won" by the > Russians is bullshit! no, it is not. look at the facts. > Back to my point. > > The U.S. Wanted nothing to do with any European wars - we were > dragged into them. while you were accepting millions of peoples death (see above) and AT THE SAME TIME doing business (!) with Nazi Germany! > Now, we're hearing a lot of crap from people like > Timo, who know nothing about history, trying to tell us we aren't > handleing things the way you would like. it's always nice to see US suckers freak out because they did not win any war yet. > Tough shit! You sprung us out of our borders because of your > inability to handle your own problems, and 60 years later you hand us > a load of shit while at the same time you can't defend your own sea > lanes of trade from Iran, et al. Grow up! defend what from Iran? is it a threat? NO! US makes it a thread as it raises the need to be prepared for US invasion. it's the same in South America, btw. i'm so satisfied that this bubble (the US) is going to burst really soon. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 17:25:41 + (GMT) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Timo, one has to wonder if your utter ignorance is intential as a > troll, or a sign of an idiot? I'm leaning towards the latter. Sez the man with 'trash' in his name. umkay. > Please read up on exactly who signed a non-agression pact with > germany (hint, it wasn't the US or GB), Ah, you didn't even understand that this was a fake. So, history lessons in the US (sponsored by Coca Cola, Halliburton, Northop-Grumman etc.) are already that bad? :) > and perhaps some light > reading on the north african and italian campains (hint: "Rommel" > seems like a pretty german surname to me). Yes, it is. And by the way he is still a hero to german governments. THAT is really a sign of the times... > Well, since it's now well > past "dawn on April 6", one has to ask... how'd the iranian assult > go? Did the US drop bunker breaker nukes? No. Why not? > On Behalf Of Timo Schoeler: > > >the trigger was 'the US', which was in context 'the western allies'; > >while Stalin saw Hitler faking very early, the US (i.e., the Bank of > >America -- with one of George W. Bush's grandfathers in the board of > >directors) was still cooperating with Nazi Germany. > > >that's not true. > >when western countries > >(GB, USA) joined in WWII, > >the battle was already > >won by the russian red army. > > >The US was 'fighting' japan from 1941, thusly 'officially' in war > >with Germany, too. At this time, US soldiers did NOT fight germans, > >and they did not fight the Holocaust; they fought a proxy war. > > > >The US (amongst others) came to the european continent on June 6th, > >1944. At that time, the red army already conquered more than two > >thirds of the area of nazi germany. The germans already had lost > >the war. (There was never a 'winner' in wars, btw.) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:11:38 +0100 "James Rankin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I seem to remember Britain being in WWII almost from the start, well > before the Russians got dragged in by Adolf > > Still I was only young at the time, I could be mistaken the trigger was 'the US', which was in context 'the western allies'; while Stalin saw Hitler faking very early, the US (i.e., the Bank of America -- with one of George W. Bush's grandfathers in the board of directors) was still cooperating with Nazi Germany. it's all in history books... > On 06/04/07, Timo Schoeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > After trying to sort through the quotes and re-quotes; I'm really > > > not sure who made the following statement: > > > > > > QUOTE: > > > == > > > ...that's not true. > > > when western countries > > > (GB, USA) joined in WWII, > > > the battle was already > > > won by the russian red army. > > > == > > > > > > > > > Regardless, that statement is historically inaccurate. Not just a > > > little inaccurate... COMPLETELY inaccurate. > > > > The US was 'fighting' japan from 1941, thusly 'officially' in war > > with Germany, too. At this time, US soldiers did NOT fight germans, > > and they did not fight the Holocaust; they fought a proxy war. > > > > The US (amongst others) came to the european continent on June 6th, > > 1944. At that time, the red army already conquered more than two > > thirds of the area of nazi germany. The germans already had lost > > the war. (There was never a 'winner' in wars, btw.) > > > > > Between nonsense like that from people who apparently never > > > bothered to open a history book > > > > Oh yeah, I'm sure I read much more than you did; even ultra-basic > > mistakes are made here and screamed out into the world, e.g. talking > > about a 'communist state'. There just is no such thing, per > > definitionem. > > > > > and ridiculous statements like; "One man's > > > terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." > > > > It's correct. Imagine a nigger (I use this word out of a reason!) > > bombing the 'Dorcia' in New York and leaving a letter that while > > people there are just blatant, decadent assholes tens of thousands > > of africans die of hunger -- guess what: He'll be a hero. > > > > Kill 'em all -- God (George W. Bush, in this context) will sort 'em > > out. > > > > > it is completely obvious > > > that practically the only people left on this list are dumbasses, > > > script kiddies and refugees from Dumb-O-Craptic Underground. > > > > You're writing this in front of a mirror, eh? :) > > > > > Not that anyone except me cares, but it seems to me that the S/N > > > ratio here has finally reached a fatal level. > > > > > > No point in sticking around to watch the body rot. > > > > blahblah. > > > > ___ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > > ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
> >> You have to be joking when you say the greatest threat to humanity > >> is capitalism. > > > > no, i'm not joking; i mentioned the 100,000+ deaths caused every > > day (and forgot those deaths caused by civilization diseases like > > diabetes, cancer etc. that is caused by 'your lifestyle'), i > > mentioned wars, i mentioned killing the planet... so i don't see > > that capitalism is NOT a thread, the greatest thread, to humanity. > > > Well, no one can help it if you're ignorant. > > Estimates of dead from various totalitarian regimes are over a > hundred million. China and Russia alone almost reach that figure. > The worldwide figure for deaths under communist regimes from 1900 to > 1987 is estimated at almost 170 million. err, look up the definition of communism (no, not what 'the US' says what communism is, but what Marx & Engels, Lenin, Mandel, Thaelmann etc. wrote). > Japan - 3 to 10 million > Cambodia - approximately 4 million > Turkey - 3.5 to 4.3 million > Vietnam - 3.8 million > Poland - 1 million > Pakistan - 1.5 million > Yugoslavia - 1.7 million > North Korea - 1.6 to 3.5 million > Nazi Germany - 7 to 10 million > Mexico - 1.4 to 3.3 million > Russia - 52 million > China - 35 million > > If you total all the war dead and every category of violence you can > think of in every democratic country on earth, you can't even get > close to those appalling numbers. > > Furthermore, no democratic country has ever started a war with > another democratic country. first of all, this is not true; there were several democratic countries starting a wars between them. on the other hand, the recent example of non-democratic countries is the faschist US invading a dictatorship, iraq. funnily, almost 80% of the iraq people say it was a better life for them before the US spread their, err, democracy there with bombs. > (That's as in zero.) The majority of > wars are begun between two non-democratic countries, and democratic > countries have the lowest incidence of foreign and domestic violence > of any form of government. (And yes, that includes the US.) > > The fact is that if all countries in the world would adopt democracy, > there would be no more wars. YMMD! :D > > - Cuba has a much lower infant mortality than the US; > > > Wow. I am so impressed. US is 6.43 and Cuba is 6.22. Statistically > insignificant and, without context, meaningless. sure, while at the stock markets this would cause several men pumping sperm into their shorts. 'meaningless'... > Both are less than 1/10th of the rates in a lot of the garden spots > of the world that so many liberals admire. > > > - Cuba has an overall much better health care than the US (who in > > the US is able to pay for health insurance? not that many people!) > > > Estimates of uninsured in the US (not including illegal immigrants) > are in the range of 20 million. estimates of whom? i saw different numbers on the net, and about half of the people in the US i know (no people from bronx, but database coders, programmers, account managers etc -- part of them with masters degree and PhD) cannot pay their health insurance, not to speak of health insurance for their family. > That's about 7% of the population. > Meanwhile, in the paradise of Cuba, they don't have chlorinated > water, they live in dilapidated and deteriorating housing (except for > the chosen few, of course), and sanitaton is almost non-existent. you where there? i was. for more than two months, and i never saw a typical 'tourist environment', not even from the far. i don't have to rely on propaganda, and i saw a different Cuba. not the whorehouse the US had before revolution came. > Cuba uses a two-tier system for healthcare. Good stuff for the party > members (and for viewing by the gullible) and not-so-good stuff for > the hoi polloi. Cuba spends 1.5% of its overal foreign purchases on > medical imports compared to 5 times that amount for the Dominican > Republic. funnily, the US sends bombs out into the world; Cuba sends medicine doctors. > The statement that Cuba's healthcare system is first rate reveals a > profound ignorance of the actual conditions in Cuba. But if you > think it's so wonderful, perhaps you'll move there to take advantage > of it. in fact, i did. when my girlfriend had an appendicitis when we where there there were hospitals in every single village (!) -- very good, interdisciplinary hospitals. polyclinics, as they're also called. comparing them to german hospitals was a tragedy, as the so wealthy Germany looked so poor suddenly. of course, 'the elite' in Germany has different treatment ;) > > - Cuba has a much better educational system and a MUCH LOWER NUMBER > > of illiterates than the US > > > Cuba's literacy rate is 96.9. The US is 99.9. Statistically > insignificant, but nice try. NICE TRY? "This report is the first release of the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) health literacy results. The results are based on assess
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
> After trying to sort through the quotes and re-quotes; I'm really not > sure who made the following statement: > > QUOTE: > == > ...that's not true. > when western countries > (GB, USA) joined in WWII, > the battle was already > won by the russian red army. > == > > > Regardless, that statement is historically inaccurate. Not just a > little inaccurate... COMPLETELY inaccurate. The US was 'fighting' japan from 1941, thusly 'officially' in war with Germany, too. At this time, US soldiers did NOT fight germans, and they did not fight the Holocaust; they fought a proxy war. The US (amongst others) came to the european continent on June 6th, 1944. At that time, the red army already conquered more than two thirds of the area of nazi germany. The germans already had lost the war. (There was never a 'winner' in wars, btw.) > Between nonsense like that from people who apparently never bothered > to open a history book Oh yeah, I'm sure I read much more than you did; even ultra-basic mistakes are made here and screamed out into the world, e.g. talking about a 'communist state'. There just is no such thing, per definitionem. > and ridiculous statements like; "One man's > terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." It's correct. Imagine a nigger (I use this word out of a reason!) bombing the 'Dorcia' in New York and leaving a letter that while people there are just blatant, decadent assholes tens of thousands of africans die of hunger -- guess what: He'll be a hero. Kill 'em all -- God (George W. Bush, in this context) will sort 'em out. > it is completely obvious > that practically the only people left on this list are dumbasses, > script kiddies and refugees from Dumb-O-Craptic Underground. You're writing this in front of a mirror, eh? :) > Not that anyone except me cares, but it seems to me that the S/N > ratio here has finally reached a fatal level. > > No point in sticking around to watch the body rot. blahblah. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 07:08:52 +1000 Paul Szabo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > - Cuba [is paradise] > > Have you ever been to (lived for an extended period in) Cuba? in fact, _I_ did, as you could read on my email from yesterday, 9:04pm. their health care is way way better and _everyone_ can afford it, as it doesn't cost anything for people there. admitting, they don't have new iPods every two months -- but who needs them there? they are not in the situation like the US where 'panem and circensis' is neccessary to keep the people down. interestingly, even the german burgouise media said (when Castro was ill last year) that more than 2/3 of the Cuban people back the revolution. so, how much is that in reality? go figure. > [I almost wonder how do you explain the Cuban emigration: about 2 > million have left, with 10 million remaining in Cuba; and those left > dream about leaving the country. i did not meet many of them. i recommend watching 'Surplus: Terrorized Into Being Consumers' [0] where a Cuban girl -- being interviewed in Cuba -- tells about her year in GB as an exchange student; very enlightening. > Really, why don't people emigrate to > Cuba: I know of some people who have spent months there, as tourists; > why don't they, you, go to live there permanently?] in fact, people do. > [BTW: what has this got to do with security, or full-disclosure?] defending against antihumanist propaganda has to be done, regardless where. it's very important to keep fighting against fascism. > Cheers, > > Paul Szabo [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.maths.usyd.edu.au/u/psz/ School of Mathematics and > Statistics University of SydneyAustralia [0] -- http://imdb.com/title/tt0368314/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:05:25 +0200 Martin Hudec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Paul Schmehl wrote: > > Furthermore, no democratic country has ever started a war with > > another democratic country. (That's as in zero.) The majority of > > wars are begun between two non-democratic countries, and democratic > > countries have the lowest incidence of foreign and domestic > > violence of any form of government. (And yes, that includes the > > US.) > > > > The fact is that if all countries in the world would adopt > > democracy, there would be no more wars. > > What a lovely idea. > > Too bad that it crashes directly with the very basics of the human > nature - which is the only thing that has not changed for all those > thousand years of written history. Despite all the glorious > technological advancements we have achieved, we are still the very > same bloodthirsty and envious creatures as we were in the days when > the stars were young and too sad that we did not learn nothing in the > process, still ignorant to everything but us. > > No state system or religion, be it democracy or communism, be it > islam or christianity, will change that. It simply does not matter. > > nice evening, > Martin martin, you call communism a state system; that's the best prove you don't even know the very basics of communism, but you hate it nevertheless. propaganda works, q.e.d. timo :) [who admits that he read Marx/Engels, Lenin, Trotzki, Mandel, Hegel and the like] ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:47:35 -0400 Red Leg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 4/5/07 5:08 PM, "Paul Szabo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (...) > While the USS Nimitz Carrier Battle Group is making haste to the > Arabian Gulf (formerly known as the Persian Gulf), to help secure the > sea lanes for the oil market (THE WEST PAYS A FAIR PRICE FOR THE > COMMODITY) without which Europe's economy would be destroyed, I have > to read this crap. > > Look. The Europeans couldn't WAIT to get The U.S. into WWII. (BBC > report of Winston Churchill: Defender of Democracy > By Dr Geoffrey Best: "In foreign affairs, his greatest achievement > was to engage the sympathy of the United States, without whose > material help - and, better, military alliance - Britain, he well > understood, had no chance of winning." Now, 60 years later, you want > to pat us on the head and send us back home? that's not true. when western countries (GB, USA) joined in WWII, the battle was already won by the russian red army. > What makes you think that the U.S. Would now believe you won't screw > up again and cause a couple of million U.S. Military casualties when > you "engage our sympathy" next time? Nope! The U.S. will continue be > PROACTIVE - and that's whether the Democrats or Republicans are in > power. And the U.S. does appreciate the wisdom of Tony Blair and John > Howard to mention only 2 who are well aware of what it takes to keep > the sea lanes safe for commerce. Also, thanks to the Royal Navy and > Marines who are still patrolling the Iraq/Iran border sea lane. > > So, if we STAY THE EFF on the security topic, then we will ALL be much > happier. Oh, yes, the above IS security! ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
> >> You have to be joking when you say the greatest threat to humanity > >> is capitalism. > > > > no, i'm not joking; i mentioned the 100,000+ deaths caused every > > day (and forgot those deaths caused by civilization diseases like > > diabetes, cancer etc. that is caused by 'your lifestyle'), i > > mentioned wars, i mentioned killing the planet... so i don't see > > that capitalism is NOT a thread, the greatest thread, to humanity. > > > Well, no one can help it if you're ignorant. > > Estimates of dead from various totalitarian regimes are over a > hundred million. China and Russia alone almost reach that figure. > The worldwide figure for deaths under communist regimes from 1900 to > 1987 is estimated at almost 170 million. err, look up the definition of communism (no, not what 'the US' says what communism is, but what Marx & Engels, Lenin, Mandel, Thaelmann etc. wrote). > Japan - 3 to 10 million > Cambodia - approximately 4 million > Turkey - 3.5 to 4.3 million > Vietnam - 3.8 million > Poland - 1 million > Pakistan - 1.5 million > Yugoslavia - 1.7 million > North Korea - 1.6 to 3.5 million > Nazi Germany - 7 to 10 million > Mexico - 1.4 to 3.3 million > Russia - 52 million > China - 35 million > > If you total all the war dead and every category of violence you can > think of in every democratic country on earth, you can't even get > close to those appalling numbers. > > Furthermore, no democratic country has ever started a war with > another democratic country. first of all, this is not true; there were several democratic countries starting a wars between them. even worse for you, it started _within_ the US of A: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA#History on the other hand, the recent example of non-democratic countries is the faschist US invading a dictatorship, iraq. funnily, almost 80% of the iraq people say it was a better life for them before the US spread their, err, democracy there with bombs. > (That's as in zero.) The majority of > wars are begun between two non-democratic countries, and democratic > countries have the lowest incidence of foreign and domestic violence > of any form of government. (And yes, that includes the US.) > > The fact is that if all countries in the world would adopt democracy, > there would be no more wars. YMMD! :D > > - Cuba has a much lower infant mortality than the US; > > > Wow. I am so impressed. US is 6.43 and Cuba is 6.22. Statistically > insignificant and, without context, meaningless. sure, while at the stock markets this would cause several men pumping sperm into their shorts. 'meaningless'... > Both are less than 1/10th of the rates in a lot of the garden spots > of the world that so many liberals admire. > > > - Cuba has an overall much better health care than the US (who in > > the US is able to pay for health insurance? not that many people!) > > > Estimates of uninsured in the US (not including illegal immigrants) > are in the range of 20 million. estimates of whom? i saw different numbers on the net, and about half of the people in the US i know (no people from bronx, but database coders, programmers, account managers etc -- part of them with masters degree and PhD) cannot pay their health insurance, not to speak of health insurance for their family. > That's about 7% of the population. > Meanwhile, in the paradise of Cuba, they don't have chlorinated > water, they live in dilapidated and deteriorating housing (except for > the chosen few, of course), and sanitaton is almost non-existent. you where there? i was. for more than two months, and i never saw a typical 'tourist environment', not even from the far. i don't have to rely on propaganda, and i saw a different Cuba. not the whorehouse the US had before revolution came. > Cuba uses a two-tier system for healthcare. Good stuff for the party > members (and for viewing by the gullible) and not-so-good stuff for > the hoi polloi. Cuba spends 1.5% of its overal foreign purchases on > medical imports compared to 5 times that amount for the Dominican > Republic. funnily, the US sends bombs out into the world; Cuba sends medicine doctors. > The statement that Cuba's healthcare system is first rate reveals a > profound ignorance of the actual conditions in Cuba. But if you > think it's so wonderful, perhaps you'll move there to take advantage > of it. in fact, i did. when my girlfriend had an appendicitis when we where there there were hospitals in every single village (!) -- very good, interdisciplinary hospitals. polyclinics, as they're also called. comparing them to german hospitals was a tragedy, as the so wealthy Germany looked so poor suddenly. of course, 'the elite' in Germany has different treatment ;) > > - Cuba has a much better educational system and a MUCH LOWER NUMBER > > of illiterates than the US > > > Cuba's literacy rate is 96.9. The US is 99.9. Statistically > insignificant, but nice try. NICE TRY? "This report is the first release of the Nationa
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
> >> You have to be joking when you say the greatest threat to humanity > >> is capitalism. > > > > no, i'm not joking; i mentioned the 100,000+ deaths caused every > > day (and forgot those deaths caused by civilization diseases like > > diabetes, cancer etc. that is caused by 'your lifestyle'), i > > mentioned wars, i mentioned killing the planet... so i don't see > > that capitalism is NOT a thread, the greatest thread, to humanity. > > > Well, no one can help it if you're ignorant. > > Estimates of dead from various totalitarian regimes are over a > hundred million. China and Russia alone almost reach that figure. > The worldwide figure for deaths under communist regimes from 1900 to > 1987 is estimated at almost 170 million. err, look up the definition of communism (no, not what 'the US' says what communism is, but what Marx & Engels, Lenin, Mandel, Thaelmann etc. wrote). > Japan - 3 to 10 million > Cambodia - approximately 4 million > Turkey - 3.5 to 4.3 million > Vietnam - 3.8 million > Poland - 1 million > Pakistan - 1.5 million > Yugoslavia - 1.7 million > North Korea - 1.6 to 3.5 million > Nazi Germany - 7 to 10 million > Mexico - 1.4 to 3.3 million > Russia - 52 million > China - 35 million > > If you total all the war dead and every category of violence you can > think of in every democratic country on earth, you can't even get > close to those appalling numbers. > > Furthermore, no democratic country has ever started a war with > another democratic country. first of all, this is not true; there were several democratic countries starting a wars between them. on the other hand, the recent example of non-democratic countries is the faschist US invading a dictatorship, iraq. funnily, almost 80% of the iraq people say it was a better life for them before the US spread their, err, democracy there with bombs. > (That's as in zero.) The majority of > wars are begun between two non-democratic countries, and democratic > countries have the lowest incidence of foreign and domestic violence > of any form of government. (And yes, that includes the US.) > > The fact is that if all countries in the world would adopt democracy, > there would be no more wars. YMMD! :D > > - Cuba has a much lower infant mortality than the US; > > > Wow. I am so impressed. US is 6.43 and Cuba is 6.22. Statistically > insignificant and, without context, meaningless. sure, while at the stock markets this would cause several men pumping sperm into their shorts. 'meaningless'... > Both are less than 1/10th of the rates in a lot of the garden spots > of the world that so many liberals admire. > > > - Cuba has an overall much better health care than the US (who in > > the US is able to pay for health insurance? not that many people!) > > > Estimates of uninsured in the US (not including illegal immigrants) > are in the range of 20 million. estimates of whom? i saw different numbers on the net, and about half of the people in the US i know (no people from bronx, but database coders, programmers, account managers etc -- part of them with masters degree and PhD) cannot pay their health insurance, not to speak of health insurance for their family. > That's about 7% of the population. > Meanwhile, in the paradise of Cuba, they don't have chlorinated > water, they live in dilapidated and deteriorating housing (except for > the chosen few, of course), and sanitaton is almost non-existent. you where there? i was. for more than two months, and i never saw a typical 'tourist environment', not even from the far. i don't have to rely on propaganda, and i saw a different Cuba. not the whorehouse the US had before revolution came. > Cuba uses a two-tier system for healthcare. Good stuff for the party > members (and for viewing by the gullible) and not-so-good stuff for > the hoi polloi. Cuba spends 1.5% of its overal foreign purchases on > medical imports compared to 5 times that amount for the Dominican > Republic. funnily, the US sends bombs out into the world; Cuba sends medicine doctors. > The statement that Cuba's healthcare system is first rate reveals a > profound ignorance of the actual conditions in Cuba. But if you > think it's so wonderful, perhaps you'll move there to take advantage > of it. in fact, i did. when my girlfriend had an appendicitis when we where there there were hospitals in every single village (!) -- very good, interdisciplinary hospitals. polyclinics, as they're also called. comparing them to german hospitals was a tragedy, as the so wealthy Germany looked so poor suddenly. of course, 'the elite' in Germany has different treatment ;) > > - Cuba has a much better educational system and a MUCH LOWER NUMBER > > of illiterates than the US > > > Cuba's literacy rate is 96.9. The US is 99.9. Statistically > insignificant, but nice try. NICE TRY? "This report is the first release of the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) health literacy results. The results are based on assess
Re: [Full-disclosure] Hackers uniting against Iran?
> >> You have to be joking when you say the greatest threat to humanity > >> is capitalism. > > > > no, i'm not joking; i mentioned the 100,000+ deaths caused every > > day (and forgot those deaths caused by civilization diseases like > > diabetes, cancer etc. that is caused by 'your lifestyle'), i > > mentioned wars, i mentioned killing the planet... so i don't see > > that capitalism is NOT a thread, the greatest thread, to humanity. > > > Well, no one can help it if you're ignorant. > > Estimates of dead from various totalitarian regimes are over a > hundred million. China and Russia alone almost reach that figure. > The worldwide figure for deaths under communist regimes from 1900 to > 1987 is estimated at almost 170 million. err, look up the definition of communism (no, not what 'the US' says what communism is, but what Marx & Engels, Lenin, Mandel, Thaelmann etc. wrote). > Japan - 3 to 10 million > Cambodia - approximately 4 million > Turkey - 3.5 to 4.3 million > Vietnam - 3.8 million > Poland - 1 million > Pakistan - 1.5 million > Yugoslavia - 1.7 million > North Korea - 1.6 to 3.5 million > Nazi Germany - 7 to 10 million > Mexico - 1.4 to 3.3 million > Russia - 52 million > China - 35 million > > If you total all the war dead and every category of violence you can > think of in every democratic country on earth, you can't even get > close to those appalling numbers. > > Furthermore, no democratic country has ever started a war with > another democratic country. first of all, this is not true; there were several democratic countries starting a wars between them. on the other hand, the recent example of non-democratic countries is the faschist US invading a dictatorship, iraq. funnily, almost 80% of the iraq people say it was a better life for them before the US spread their, err, democracy there with bombs. > (That's as in zero.) The majority of > wars are begun between two non-democratic countries, and democratic > countries have the lowest incidence of foreign and domestic violence > of any form of government. (And yes, that includes the US.) > > The fact is that if all countries in the world would adopt democracy, > there would be no more wars. YMMD! :D > > - Cuba has a much lower infant mortality than the US; > > > Wow. I am so impressed. US is 6.43 and Cuba is 6.22. Statistically > insignificant and, without context, meaningless. sure, while at the stock markets this would cause several men pumping sperm into their shorts. 'meaningless'... > Both are less than 1/10th of the rates in a lot of the garden spots > of the world that so many liberals admire. > > > - Cuba has an overall much better health care than the US (who in > > the US is able to pay for health insurance? not that many people!) > > > Estimates of uninsured in the US (not including illegal immigrants) > are in the range of 20 million. estimates of whom? i saw different numbers on the net, and about half of the people in the US i know (no people from bronx, but database coders, programmers, account managers etc -- part of them with masters degree and PhD) cannot pay their health insurance, not to speak of health insurance for their family. > That's about 7% of the population. > Meanwhile, in the paradise of Cuba, they don't have chlorinated > water, they live in dilapidated and deteriorating housing (except for > the chosen few, of course), and sanitaton is almost non-existent. you where there? i was. for more than two months, and i never saw a typical 'tourist environment', not even from the far. i don't have to rely on propaganda, and i saw a different Cuba. not the whorehouse the US had before revolution came. > Cuba uses a two-tier system for healthcare. Good stuff for the party > members (and for viewing by the gullible) and not-so-good stuff for > the hoi polloi. Cuba spends 1.5% of its overal foreign purchases on > medical imports compared to 5 times that amount for the Dominican > Republic. funnily, the US sends bombs out into the world; Cuba sends medicine doctors. > The statement that Cuba's healthcare system is first rate reveals a > profound ignorance of the actual conditions in Cuba. But if you > think it's so wonderful, perhaps you'll move there to take advantage > of it. in fact, i did. when my girlfriend had an appendicitis when we where there there were hospitals in every single village (!) -- very good, interdisciplinary hospitals. polyclinics, as they're also called. comparing them to german hospitals was a tragedy, as the so wealthy Germany looked so poor suddenly. of course, 'the elite' in Germany has different treatment ;) > > - Cuba has a much better educational system and a MUCH LOWER NUMBER > > of illiterates than the US > > > Cuba's literacy rate is 96.9. The US is 99.9. Statistically > insignificant, but nice try. NICE TRY? "This report is the first release of the National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) health literacy results. The results are based on assess
Re: [Full-disclosure] The Cyber war on Iran
_ _ ___ _ __ ___ ___ _ __ | | /| / / _ | / _ \ / __ \/ |/ / / _/ _ \/ _ | / |/ / | |/ |/ / __ |/ , _/ / /_/ // _/ // , _/ __ |// |__/|__/_/ |_/_/|_| \/_/|_/ /___/_/|_/_/ |_/_/|_/ Hackers United against the Threat of Islam >>> --- FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEANTI-MUSLIM LEAGUE >>> --- >> WOW...I'm impressed..no one has called you Nazi yet. > You are a Nazi. no, that's not quite correct. per definition, he's faschist, which is the highest rank of a capitalist. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] new worm traveling the net? (GNU/Linux)
In epistula a Michal Zalewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:17:43 +0100 (CET): > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Timo Schoeler wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [...] > > is this a new worm spreading or something already known? > > More like a spambot probe of some sorts. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=catchthismail maybe a pattern: header of the postings there show Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.07 (built Feb 20 2004) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] new worm traveling the net? (GNU/Linux)
In epistula a Michal Zalewski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:17:43 +0100 (CET): > On Mon, 19 Feb 2007, Timo Schoeler wrote: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [...] > > is this a new worm spreading or something already known? > > More like a spambot probe of some sorts. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=catchthismail thanks. all dated february 19th. (however, why didn't g00gl3 show me the groups by default. pointless.) timo :) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] new worm traveling the net? (GNU/Linux)
ahoy, a friend of mine contacted me because he saw lots of emails (60) to [EMAIL PROTECTED] starting at about 5:00 am (US east coast time). so i checked our company's log files (about 300 users) and saw the same here starting at about 10:45am CET, ending at about 6pm, and about 40 emails of this in total. there was not pattern except the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: header; interestingly, scanning a few of those hosts immediately (dynamic assigned IP addresses) showed that it was GNU/Linux hosts. is this a new worm spreading or something already known? wbr, timo -- "Or what? You'll release the dogs? Or the bees? Or the dogs with bees in their mouths, and when they bark they shot bees at you?" (Homer J. Simpson) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Wikipedia and Pedophilia
thus J.A. Terranson spake: > On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >> In other news: >> - GW Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Colin Powell piloted the >> planes on 9/11 (they jumped out at the last minute) no, but NORAD was 'offline' on 911 for the first time in history (no aircraft available on the east coast. of course, this was coincidence), the WTC (mind WTC No. 11 which collapsed without reason!) was the first buildings of that kind in history to collapse because of a fire (there are buildings still standing today after 36+ hours of even more fire), insurance contracts, no republican politicians on flights that day, etc. etc. etc. http://investigate911.bravehost.com/ Loose change and, the main reason: Genua, Italy. Canada. raising antiimperialistic mass movement. this had to be controlled. now it is. big brother is watching you. and it hits each and every one of you _personally_ :) >> - Hurricane Katrina was caused by the Yakuza using weather control >> technology developed in the 1960s- they are mad about the US using the >> atomic bombs in WWII maybe it's just about the higher energy levels in a warmer atmosphere (methane, carbon dioxide -- global warming)? >> - Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro dine together nightly and always split >> the same dish: one human baby (this is what's keeping Castro alive) you forgot Mahmoud Ahmadinejad :) >> - The Russkies are STILL after our precious bodily fluids sure. > You forgot one: > > - You STILL can't fight in the war room. very amused. patria o muerte! ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Wikipedia and Pedophilia
In epistula a V Vendetta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> die horaque Fri, 19 Jan 2007 13:29:53 -0800 (PST): > Full Dislosure: Wikipedia > (...) > > Also, I apologize for my english - as it is only my second language. > > The Wikipedia ideology is like communism - all the people working > together in harmony - it sounds like... Peace. It's idealism at its > highest level. > no, the wikipedia ideology is NOT like communism. i even doubt they have something like an ideology. however, you should also apologize for your ranting about something (communism) you don't even know the basics of (i.e., it's definition). your superior system of capitalism destroys the planet for long time now. at least, we're getting at an end as climate change (carbon dioxide, methan, etc.) leads to mass extinctions within the next two decades (at a maxmimum) due to 'the weather being reconfigured around the planet'. so in future those who cause this won't be able to satisfy their needs on burgers, hot dogs etc., thus not being able to drive their SUVs. nature will win :) most interesting, alas Cuba is on its way to communism (no, it is no communism there, this is socialism, the first step to) is the only country with sustainable development (*although* the US put an embargo on them *decades* ago): http://www.panda.org/news_facts/publications/key_publications/living_planet_report/index.cfm capitalism is about exponential, endless growth; the physician will say that this is not possible because the universe is not endless. the doctor will tell you that the only thing that achieves this is: cancer. (which, as capitalism, is its own murderer :) > (...) > > V haef phun, t. <- at least anticapitalist and still waiting for a _single_ democracy that works as the definition says. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] n3td3v calls on month of bug campaigns to stop
n3td3v wrote: > [introduction] > n3td3v is deeply sad at the new trend of morally accepted blackmail by > the security community, known better as a month of bugs. > > sincere researchers are coming forward more frequently to threaten > companies with a month of vendor bugs. > > because they are known to be sincere they are morally left off the > hook from what is known by n3td3v to be straight forward blackmail. > > blackmail is illegal, for this reason n3td3v wishes to make the > following recommendations: > > [1]bug a day for a month campaigns are blackmail on the part of the > researcher, all should be outlawed by government. > > [2]n3td3v calls on the government to make it highly illegal and > morally unacceptable to threaten a month of bugs for a vendor and its > customers > > [3]security researchers think its "fun" but all it amounts to is blackmail > > [4]all blackmail attempts shouldn't be dressed up as harmless fun > > [5]governments need to wake up and swiftly arrest those making month > of bug claims in the future > > [6]corporations and its consumers shouldn't be scared mongered and > threatened by individuals > > [7]researchers shouldn't use their real name or real place of > employment and expect exclusion from legal action against blackmail > > [8]researchers shouldn't be allowed to profit or gain career > opportunities by such claims to action by the researcher > > [9]researchers should be taken into custody, questioned and have their > hardware obtained for forensic analysis before a month of bugs is due > to start > > [10]individuals threatening to carry out a month of bugs shouldn't be > labelled as "security researchers" by the media and security experts > > [11]such individuals should be clearly labelled as "criminals", > "malicious attackers" and "blackhats", no matter what other "friendly" > or "useful" research they've carried out in the past. > > [media dork reference] > http://news.com.com/2061-10793_3-6144833.html there's one extremely simple solution: write good code! furthermore, vendors who sell crap deserve to be blamed to do so. Mercedes-Benz' sales of their E-Class went down enourmously when the fact was known that it was extremely poorly engineered, especially wrt electrics. no one could fill a whole month of bugs (a bug/day) when the vendor did good (!) work. it's, again, a thing capitalism enforces. vendors sell immature soft-/hardware, and services, and let the customers do the beta testing. *that* should be defined illegal by governments! but guess what -- most, if not all of the western countries can be defined as fascist countries as (huge) corporations are the real entities in power. that given, the guys you call 'blackmailers' are like Robin Hood. they're heroes. (it was the same with brazil some months ago; they told the pharmacy corporations to sell their drugs for HIV infected people at a reasonable price to the brazilian govt, otherwise the govt would ignore patents and re-engineer and build the drugs themselves. again, the govt was perfectly right. however, pharmacy corporations' PR guys knew this and so they sold and sell the medicine to the price brazil was willing to pay...) -- Timo Schoeler | http://riscworks.net/~tis | [EMAIL PROTECTED] RISCworks -- Perfection is a powerful message Ex-ISP | RISC aficinados | Networking, Security, OpenBSD services GPG Key fingerprint = l33t What are you gonna do? Release the dogs?! Or the bees?! Or dogs with bees in their mouth so that when they bark they shoot bees at you? (Homer J. Simpson) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Nmap Online
thus Schanulleke spake: > Simon Smith wrote: >> Why would you do this? >> >>> For all Nmap fans, our group have implemented Nmap Online service. >>> Its address is http://nmap-online.com/. The interface allows you to perform >>> custom > > Because you like lawers and being in court? lawyers are wimps :) ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
