Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Mark Andrews]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Troll
ie Fingers" writes:
> It is an unmoderated list.  Why do people feel the need to cry about it?
> F-D is known to be noisy & it is part of its charm.  I agree, this
> particular thread is way out in left field.  But apparently some people
> found interest in it, so whatever.
> 
> Maybe some would be more comfortable to have their information handed to
> them in a moderated format, all while they sit in their cubical and smell
> their own farts and take themselves way to serious.  If you have all of your
> lists dump directly into your inbox you probably have more issues than a
> little OT banter.

Occasional OT discourse is expected in unmoderated lists.
Continual OT discourse is not expected in unmoderated lists.
Vilification is not expected in any list, moderated or otherwise.

There are complaints because the amounts of traffic that
falls into the later two categories are exceeding what the
list members feel is apporiate, needed or necessary.

Apply self moderation.

Mark
-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Trollie Fingers]

It is an unmoderated list.  Why do people feel the need to cry about it?
F-D is known to be noisy & it is part of its charm.  I agree, this
particular thread is way out in left field.  But apparently some people
found interest in it, so whatever.

Maybe some would be more comfortable to have their information handed to
them in a moderated format, all while they sit in their cubical and smell
their own farts and take themselves way to serious.  If you have all of your
lists dump directly into your inbox you probably have more issues than a
little OT banter.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:57 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:55 PM, M. B. Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:57 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.
> >
> >
> > Really, Mr n3td3v?
> >
>
> Yes, off-topic, not what we want to see on full-disclosure.
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 5:55 PM, M. B. Jr. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:57 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.
>
>
> Really, Mr n3td3v?
>

Yes, off-topic, not what we want to see on full-disclosure.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[M . B . Jr .]

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 6:23 AM, Andrew A <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was recently having an ethics debate where someone said that Christianity
> was "just what the greeks taught, but dumbed down". I heartily disagreed,
> and I wanted to put my reasons to text while I still remembered them.
>


No wonder. One has to disagree face to such an extravagant
manifestation of cynicism, indeed.
Check these passages out, first:

Romans 1, 16
Romans 2, 9
Romans 2, 10

then you'll get closer to the referred observation's hypocrisy.



-- 
Marcio Barbado, Jr.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[M . B . Jr .]

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:57 PM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.


Really, Mr n3td3v?



-- 
Marcio Barbado, Jr.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Andrew A]

n3td3v is the most hopelessly dedicated troll i have ever seen.

and you dudes are the most easily trolled motherfuckers i have ever seen.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:58 PM, Corey LeBleu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> I'm about to unsubscribe thanks to these stupid arguments, rants, trash
> talking, and especially n3td3v.  n3td3v, I honestly agree with you half the
> time and disagree the other half, but I must ask, is this the place for
> this?  I mean seriously, is this a security list or a soap opera?  And
> n3td3v, although I sometimes agree with you, you really don't put up an
> intelligent argument to support your views.  Let's try to keep this a
> security list and not a middle school playground.  I could be wrong, but if
> I'm not I'm unsubscribing soon.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Will McAfee <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Maybe religion is not the best topic for the Internet and anonymity.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Trollie Fingers
>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
>> >> wouldn't it?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Are you a member of the n3td3v group?
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Shay Mardan]

Well said



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Corey LeBleu
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:58 AM
To: Will McAfee
Cc: Full Disclosure
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

I'm about to unsubscribe thanks to these stupid arguments, rants, trash 
talking, and especially n3td3v.  n3td3v, I honestly agree with you half the 
time and disagree the other half, but I must ask, is this the place for this?  
I mean seriously, is this a security list or a soap opera?  And n3td3v, 
although I sometimes agree with you, you really don't put up an intelligent 
argument to support your views.  Let's try to keep this a security list and not 
a middle school playground.  I could be wrong, but if I'm not I'm unsubscribing 
soon.
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Will McAfee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Maybe religion is not the best topic for the Internet and anonymity.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Trollie Fingers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
>> wouldn't it?
>>
>
> Are you a member of the n3td3v group?
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Corey LeBleu]

I'm about to unsubscribe thanks to these stupid arguments, rants, trash
talking, and especially n3td3v.  n3td3v, I honestly agree with you half the
time and disagree the other half, but I must ask, is this the place for
this?  I mean seriously, is this a security list or a soap opera?  And
n3td3v, although I sometimes agree with you, you really don't put up an
intelligent argument to support your views.  Let's try to keep this a
security list and not a middle school playground.  I could be wrong, but if
I'm not I'm unsubscribing soon.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:52 PM, Will McAfee <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Maybe religion is not the best topic for the Internet and anonymity.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Trollie Fingers
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
> >> wouldn't it?
> >>
> >
> > Are you a member of the n3td3v group?
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Will McAfee]

Maybe religion is not the best topic for the Internet and anonymity.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Trollie Fingers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
>> wouldn't it?
>>
>
> Are you a member of the n3td3v group?
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:22 PM,  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:09:54 GMT, n3td3v said:
>> why don't you setup your own "sec" group Michael Simpson and go
>> complain about n3td3v over there?
>
> For the same exact reason that you're not over on your n3td3v group
> complaining about the treatment you get on f-d.
>

you wouldn't know, as you are a self confessed non-member.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:09:54 GMT, n3td3v said:
> why don't you setup your own "sec" group Michael Simpson and go
> complain about n3td3v over there?

For the same exact reason that you're not over on your n3td3v group
complaining about the treatment you get on f-d.


pgpDMtesCEpTF.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Anders B Jansson]

n3td3v wrote:
> My intentions are usually good when I start a thread about something,
> but they are quickly taken down the anti-n3td3v gateway, into all out
> flameness about how n3td3v's opinion sucks 

Who gives a fuck about your intentions or opinions?

If you have some relevant information to post, then post it.

If you just have your usual inane and content free opinions, then post that on 
your own mailing list where people who gives a shit about your opinions are 
free to sign up and read them.

-- 
// hdw

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Michael Simpson]

andrew wallace spewed:

, so why can't the
> people who don't like me just shut up and get a life on some other
> mailing list?
>

Interesting variation on the old "it's the rest of the world that is
mad, not me" rationalistion that i hear from all my personality
disordered or psychotic patients



As has been said *many* times before you have your own "sec" group so
why don't you stay there rather than polluting fd.

That week when you didn't post was so nice, made me realise how much i
hate your juvenile, uninfomed crap.

go and get a job

bw
mike

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

why don't you setup your own "sec" group Michael Simpson and go
complain about n3td3v over there?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:05 PM, Michael Simpson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As has been said *many* times before you have your own "sec" group so
> why don't you stay there rather than polluting fd.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Trollie Fingers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
> wouldn't it?
>

Are you a member of the n3td3v group?

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Trollie Fingers]

*so why can't the people who don't like me just shut up and get a life on
some other
mailing list?*

well that would leave this list looking much like your google group,
wouldn't it?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:17 AM, n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My intentions are usually good when I start a thread about something,
> but they are quickly taken down the anti-n3td3v gateway, into all out
> flameness about how n3td3v's opinion sucks and how great everyone else
> is on the list. n3td3v is a blogger of cyber security, if you don't
> like my opinions thats sweet, just don't tell the rest of the list
> about it, because then I get the blame for it. I want to be able to
> give my opinion without getting a bad reaction, so why can't the
> people who don't like me just shut up and get a life on some other
> mailing list?
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Anders Klixbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > But isnt that where you feel most at home brother n3td3v?
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
> > Sent: 11. november 2008 15:58
> > To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
> >
> > Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM, TJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved
> >> solidly into off-topic land.
> >> Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> /TJ
> >>
> >>
> >>>-Original Message-----
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> >>>Anders Klixbull
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
> >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> >>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
> >>>Importance: High
> >>>
> >>>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
> >>>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> >>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
> >>>
> >>>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that
> >>>there is a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child
> >>>your though patters are so distorted!
> >>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>
> >>>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
> >>>To: 
> >>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
> >>>
> >>>'No God' slogans for city's buses
> >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
> >>>
> >>>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
> >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
> >>>
> >>>All the best,
> >>>
> >>>n3td3v
> >>>
> >>>___
> >>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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> >>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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> >>>
> >>>___
> >>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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> >>
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Anders Klixbull]

Because we are drawn to you like moths to a flame 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
Sent: 11. november 2008 16:17
To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

My intentions are usually good when I start a thread about something, but they 
are quickly taken down the anti-n3td3v gateway, into all out flameness about 
how n3td3v's opinion sucks and how great everyone else is on the list. n3td3v 
is a blogger of cyber security, if you don't like my opinions thats sweet, just 
don't tell the rest of the list about it, because then I get the blame for it. 
I want to be able to give my opinion without getting a bad reaction, so why 
can't the people who don't like me just shut up and get a life on some other 
mailing list?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Anders Klixbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But isnt that where you feel most at home brother n3td3v?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
> Sent: 11. november 2008 15:58
> To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
> Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM, TJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved 
>> solidly into off-topic land.
>> Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?
>>
>>
>>
>> /TJ
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
>>>Anders Klixbull
>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>Importance: High
>>>
>>>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
>>>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>
>>>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that 
>>>there is a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child 
>>>your though patters are so distorted!
>>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
>>>To: 
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>
>>>
>>>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>>>
>>>'No God' slogans for city's buses
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>>>
>>>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>>>
>>>All the best,
>>>
>>>n3td3v
>>>
>>>___
>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ 
>>>___
>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>>
>>>___
>>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>
> ___
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>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

My intentions are usually good when I start a thread about something,
but they are quickly taken down the anti-n3td3v gateway, into all out
flameness about how n3td3v's opinion sucks and how great everyone else
is on the list. n3td3v is a blogger of cyber security, if you don't
like my opinions thats sweet, just don't tell the rest of the list
about it, because then I get the blame for it. I want to be able to
give my opinion without getting a bad reaction, so why can't the
people who don't like me just shut up and get a life on some other
mailing list?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Anders Klixbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> But isnt that where you feel most at home brother n3td3v?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
> Sent: 11. november 2008 15:58
> To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
> Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.
>
> On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM, TJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved
>> solidly into off-topic land.
>> Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?
>>
>>
>>
>> /TJ
>>
>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>>Anders Klixbull
>>>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>Importance: High
>>>
>>>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>>>
>>>-Original Message-----
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
>>>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>
>>>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that
>>>there is a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child
>>>your though patters are so distorted!
>>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
>>>To: 
>>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>>
>>>
>>>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>>>
>>>'No God' slogans for city's buses
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>>>
>>>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>>>
>>>All the best,
>>>
>>>n3td3v
>>>
>>>___
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>>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Anders Klixbull]

But isnt that where you feel most at home brother n3td3v? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of n3td3v
Sent: 11. november 2008 15:58
To: full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM, TJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved 
> solidly into off-topic land.
> Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?
>
>
>
> /TJ
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
>>Anders Klixbull
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>Importance: High
>>
>>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>[mailto:full-disclosure- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
>>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>
>>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that 
>>there is a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child 
>>your though patters are so distorted!
>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>
>>
>>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>>
>>'No God' slogans for city's buses
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>>
>>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>n3td3v
>>
>>___
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ 
>>___
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>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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>>
>>___
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>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

Yup, pointless thread that was going no where.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 2:40 PM, TJ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved solidly
> into off-topic land.
> Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?
>
>
>
> /TJ
>
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:full-disclosure-
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anders Klixbull
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>Importance: High
>>
>>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:full-disclosure-
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
>>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>
>>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that there is
>>a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child your though
>>patters are so distorted!
>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
>>To: 
>>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>>
>>
>>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>>
>>'No God' slogans for city's buses
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>>
>>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>>
>>All the best,
>>
>>n3td3v
>>
>>___
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>___
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>>
>>___
>>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[TJ]

My views on this issue aside, I am fairly certain this has swerved solidly
into off-topic land.
Perhaps we can have our religious debates elsewhere ... ?



/TJ


>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:full-disclosure-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anders Klixbull
>Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 7:51 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>Importance: High
>
>Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:full-disclosure-
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
>To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
>Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that there is
>a God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child your though
>patters are so distorted!
>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>-Original Message-
>From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
>To: 
>Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
>
>"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>
>'No God' slogans for city's buses
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>
>'No God' campaign raises £140,000
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>
>All the best,
>
>n3td3v
>
>___
>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>___
>Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Jared DeMott]

>
>  
> Intelligence and religion shouldn't be in the same sentence. To even
> pretend, yet alone believe, that some pathetic moron has an insight in
> to the mindset of a celestial dictator is ridiculous.
>
> Religion may have been a foolish first attempt at science, but the
> fact that it still has a place in modern times where science explains
> so much shows how subservient people want to be.
I couldn't disagree more.  Here's one small example of how I feel about
such things:
http://www.bridgewaycommunity.org/podcast/Sermon110908.mp3

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

I might start believing in religion when im grey and old or have some
terminal illness, apart from that i think its a load of bollocks and a
waste of your own time. At the end of the day, you get buried in the
ground amoungst the ants and the beasties, they enjoy a good lunch for
a day or two, so you do put something back into nature but thats as
far as it goes. There is no after life or guy waiting for you at the
gates to decide if you were a good little boy or not. Im just a white
british cyberpunk blogger so how should i know if there is some
invisible force watching over us? It sounds like a bunch of old
bollocks to me. All the best, n3td3v.

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Anders Klixbull <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL 
> PROTECTED]
> Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
> To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
> Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that there is a 
> God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child your though patters 
> are so distorted!
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -Original Message-
> From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
> To: 
> Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me
>
>
> "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."
>
> 'No God' slogans for city's buses
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm
>
> 'No God' campaign raises £140,000
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm
>
> All the best,
>
> n3td3v
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Anders Klixbull]

Religion is nothing more than mental crutches for weakminded people 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 11. november 2008 13:33
To: n3td3v; full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that there is a 
God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child your though patters 
are so distorted!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16
To: 
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me


"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

'No God' slogans for city's buses
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' campaign raises £140,000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm

All the best,

n3td3v

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[infolookup]

Speak for yourself some of us prefer to think act and believe that there is a 
God, no wonder why the list treats you like a step child your though patters 
are so distorted!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: n3td3v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:49:16 
To: 
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me


"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

'No God' slogans for city's buses
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' campaign raises £140,000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm

All the best,

n3td3v

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[n3td3v]

"There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

'No God' slogans for city's buses
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

'No God' campaign raises £140,000
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7698559.stm

All the best,

n3td3v

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Jubei Trippataka]

On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Michael Krymson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Valdis, if you're not careful, going down this route will lead a certain
> spammy/ranty/unwanted someone to have a defense for all his meandering and
> fitful email crap he sends daily. :)
>
> To response, however, let me just say there is something to be said about
> exercising certain skills in appropriate places so as not to waste
> everyone's time and patience. Want an employee who can intelligently dive
> into metaphysics/religion/rhetoric? There are better places to look and/or
> test.
>
>

Intelligence and religion shouldn't be in the same sentence. To even
pretend, yet alone believe, that some pathetic moron has an insight in to
the mindset of a celestial dictator is ridiculous.

Religion may have been a foolish first attempt at science, but the fact that
it still has a place in modern times where science explains so much shows
how subservient people want to be.

-- 
ciao

JT
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Paul Schmehl]

--On Friday, November 07, 2008 11:58:58 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:35:44 EST, vulcanius said:


Neither, because religion has nothing to do with full disclosure.


None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

If you had 2 prospective employees, one of whom could merely quote the
CNET article about next week's patches, and one who actually understood
what that meant in the context of your organization's threat model,
which would you rather have working for you?


The Christian obviously.  :-)

--
Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Senior Information Security Analyst
The University of Texas at Dallas
http://www.utdallas.edu/ir/security/


p7s9evm3SJOrr.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Michael Krymson]

Valdis, if you're not careful, going down this route will lead a certain
spammy/ranty/unwanted someone to have a defense for all his meandering and
fitful email crap he sends daily. :)

To response, however, let me just say there is something to be said about
exercising certain skills in appropriate places so as not to waste
everyone's time and patience. Want an employee who can intelligently dive
into metaphysics/religion/rhetoric? There are better places to look and/or
test.




On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:58 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:35:44 EST, vulcanius said:
>
> > Neither, because religion has nothing to do with full disclosure.
>
> None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
>
> If you had 2 prospective employees, one of whom could merely quote the
> CNET article about next week's patches, and one who actually understood
> what that meant in the context of your organization's threat model,
> which would you rather have working for you?
>
> ___
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[vulcanius]

Are you still trying to justify a completely off-topic thread?

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:58 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:35:44 EST, vulcanius said:
>
> > Neither, because religion has nothing to do with full disclosure.
>
> None are so blind as those who refuse to see.
>
> If you had 2 prospective employees, one of whom could merely quote the
> CNET article about next week's patches, and one who actually understood
> what that meant in the context of your organization's threat model,
> which would you rather have working for you?
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[vulcanius]

Neither, because religion has nothing to do with full disclosure.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:32 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:25:38 EST, vulcanius said:
> > So Jesus Christ has what to do with the full disclosure? I'm sorry but I
> > think you may have just got full retard on me.
>
> One person *understood* the advisory and what it actually meant, one was
> merely
> parroting a circular definition.
>
> Which one would *you* rather have working for you?
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:35:44 EST, vulcanius said:

> Neither, because religion has nothing to do with full disclosure.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

If you had 2 prospective employees, one of whom could merely quote the
CNET article about next week's patches, and one who actually understood
what that meant in the context of your organization's threat model,
which would you rather have working for you?


pgp3lYMO4LCyv.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Shyaam]

I guess every junk mail has anything and everything to do with an
non-moderated list where people paste their own shit.

Shyaam
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[.]

You call that an advisory?

So if I said that Buddhism was really all about a friend of mine
called Bud who believed in peacefulness, that would be an advisory?

You must be stoned.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:25:38 EST, vulcanius said:
> So Jesus Christ has what to do with the full disclosure? I'm sorry but I
> think you may have just got full retard on me.

One person *understood* the advisory and what it actually meant, one was merely
parroting a circular definition.

Which one would *you* rather have working for you?


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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[vulcanius]

So Jesus Christ has what to do with the full disclosure? I'm sorry but I
think you may have just got full retard on me.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 12:22 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:13:45 EST, vulcanius said:
> > I'm sorry, I thought this was Full-Disclosure, not metaphysics weekly.
>
> Being able to *understand* what you read (and thus be better able to see
> what the implications of something are), and being able to do further
> research
> to figure out if something is bullshit or not, are critical skills for
> a security researcher.
>
> Hell, earlier this morning somebody was getting raked over the coals
> because
> 10 years of parroting didn't qualify them as a serious security researcher.
>
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:13:45 EST, vulcanius said:
> I'm sorry, I thought this was Full-Disclosure, not metaphysics weekly.

Being able to *understand* what you read (and thus be better able to see
what the implications of something are), and being able to do further research
to figure out if something is bullshit or not, are critical skills for
a security researcher.

Hell, earlier this morning somebody was getting raked over the coals because
10 years of parroting didn't qualify them as a serious security researcher.



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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[vulcanius]

I'm sorry, I thought this was Full-Disclosure, not metaphysics weekly.

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 11:47 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:22:23 +0200, anonymous pimp said:
> > > And that, my friends, is the basis of all Christianity.
> >
> > No it isn't.
> >
> > "Christianity is... based on the teachings of Jesus Christ" [0]
> >
> >
> > [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/
>
> FAIL.
>
> You're parroting (and citing a circular definition, at that). Andrew A at
> least
> *groks* what Jesus was trying to tell us.
>
> Among other things, Andrew A notices that Jesus didn't develop his
> teachings
> in an intellectual vacuum - he would have been at very familiar with the
> Old Testament, and had at least passing familiarity with the various Greek
> philosophers.  Even in those areas where Greek teaching was incompatible
> with Judeaic teachings, they'd be known in "compare and contrast" form.
>
> As we find in Luke chapter 2:
>
> 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the
> teachers, listening to them and asking them questions.
> 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
>
> Note that the text implies that at that time, it was not unusual for a
> 12 year old boy to be at the temple talking to the teachers - what *was*
> unusual was the depth of understanding for a 12 year old.
>
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:22:23 +0200, anonymous pimp said:
> > And that, my friends, is the basis of all Christianity.
> 
> No it isn't.
> 
> "Christianity is... based on the teachings of Jesus Christ" [0]
> 
> 
> [0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/

FAIL.

You're parroting (and citing a circular definition, at that). Andrew A at least
*groks* what Jesus was trying to tell us.

Among other things, Andrew A notices that Jesus didn't develop his teachings
in an intellectual vacuum - he would have been at very familiar with the
Old Testament, and had at least passing familiarity with the various Greek
philosophers.  Even in those areas where Greek teaching was incompatible
with Judeaic teachings, they'd be known in "compare and contrast" form.

As we find in Luke chapter 2:

46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the
teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 
47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.

Note that the text implies that at that time, it was not unusual for a
12 year old boy to be at the temple talking to the teachers - what *was*
unusual was the depth of understanding for a 12 year old.



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Re: [Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[anonymous pimp]

> And that, my friends, is the basis of all Christianity.

No it isn't.

"Christianity is... based on the teachings of Jesus Christ" [0]


[0] http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/

--
anonymouspimp

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[Full-disclosure] What Christianity means to me

[Andrew A]

I was recently having an ethics debate where someone said that Christianity
was "just what the greeks taught, but dumbed down". I heartily disagreed,
and I wanted to put my reasons to text while I still remembered them.

Christianity is the ethics of the great Greek classics, for sure. It owes
almost all its ethical lineage to those boys in limbo. There's something
deeper than that. Jesus isn't just about ethics. He's about passion, love,
and most of all, he's about being a time-traveling gangster.

I grew up poor. I know what it is like to go without food, or wear the same
pair of shoes until they smell and have holes in them. When you're poor, you
make poor friends. Let's say you and I grew up in the same trailer park. We
had this friend named Chris we met through some BBS. Chris always hung out
with the shadiest people. He knew every hooker, hustler and scammer in the
tri-state area. Despite that, Chris was the most loving, most real human
being we'd ever met. He'd sometimes feed us 10 strips of acid and take us
out to the woods to set off some explosives. He'd have our backs when the
rich kids tried to beat us up. When we were hungry, he would give us food.

Most importantly, Chris gave us a sense of justice. "Man, those fuckin'
Jews, with their media and their Federal Reserve-- they have all the money
and what do they do with it? Run this country into the ground. Try to
program every man to be a slave to behaviorism and every daughter that isn't
theirs be a whore. Things ain't right."

Chris would also give us hope. "This fuckin shithole-- this fuckin' park.
You're better than that. You're a good German kid. There's kings in your
lineage. You deserve better. Fuck anyone who says otherwise. Your parents
are assholes, your teachers are assholes, and you know what? You're an
asshole too. But you deserve better. All of you." Chris made us think there
was something important in our lives beyond the shitty trailer and the
shitty family and the mac and cheese six nights a week.

One day, Chris takes too much acid. Freaks out. Starts going into banks,
knocking shit over. "You fucking morons! You're agents of the subjugation
and slavery of your neighbors! Don't you fuckin' see! Wake the fuck up, stop
fucking ruining lives!" He breaks into the vault, burns all the money. Not
interested in a cent of it.

Chris goes to prison. After he's gone, we all realize what a difference he
made in our lives. Without Chris, the walls of our trailers seem really
small. We spend our days somber and sad. Then one day, someone says, "let's
throw a party". We all eat a little acid, and tell stories about Chris. We'd
laugh, we'd remember when our lives were more complete. And through
repeating his words about justice, truth, love and hope, we found these in
ourselves.

And we'd wait. We'd count the days. Until Chris got out of jail.

And that, my friends, is the basis of all Christianity.
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