Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Justin Ferguson]

> Freedom of speech and freedom of anonymous speech is protected by the first 
> amendment..

There is nothing anywhere in any of US law, whether it be the bill of
rights or case law/judicial review which *modifies* those rights. More
over, you probably mean to reference the 4th amendment, not the 1st,
as having a given type of speech monitoring does not inhibit its
expression, but may/may not constitute an illegal search and seizure.

This will eventually be reviewed by SCOTUS, to which we will determine
whether its constitutional or not. That's how it works here, despite
what people yelling about knowing their rights think.

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 10:01 AM, laurent gaffie
 wrote:
> Freedom of speech and freedom of anonymous speech is protected by the first
> amendment..
>
> https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity
>
>
>
>
> 2013/6/11 Philip Whitehouse 
>>
>>
>> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
>> amendment rather than the first one...
>>
>> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first
>> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is the
>> only under the realm of the first.
>>
>> Philip Whitehouse
>
>
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Alexander Arlt]

Am 06/12/2013 01:08 AM, schrieb Justin Ferguson:
>> Their Naurs devices get my info even if I store my data in Germany
>>  (My link to Germany goes through EEUU).
> 
> And you think the BND does what for a living exactly?

Ah, I have the joy of knowing some of the fellows over there in Pullach
and actually... I'd really like to know, what they're doing for their
living... indeed... since it's mostly my tax money at work over there.

Guys, take a look from my perspective: At least you know what your tax
dollars are spent on...

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Ivan .Heca]

Thw commercial espionage angle is another interesting aspect of this

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130611/10014923405/is-us-using-prism-to-engage-commercial-espionage-against-germany-others.shtml
On 13/06/2013 3:08 AM, "Michael Hallgren"  wrote:

>
> http://www.internetsociety.org/news/internet-society-statement-importance-open-global-dialogue-regarding-online-privacy
>
> mh
>
> Le 12/06/2013 16:05, William Reyor a écrit :
> > * are protected <-- fixed that for ya.
> >
> > - William Reyor
> >
> > On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:01 AM, laurent gaffie 
> wrote:
> >
> >> is protected
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Michael Hallgren]

http://www.internetsociety.org/news/internet-society-statement-importance-open-global-dialogue-regarding-online-privacy

mh

Le 12/06/2013 16:05, William Reyor a écrit :
> * are protected <-- fixed that for ya.
>
> - William Reyor
>
> On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:01 AM, laurent gaffie  wrote:
>
>> is protected
> ___
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[William Reyor]

* are protected <-- fixed that for ya.

- William Reyor

On Jun 12, 2013, at 10:01 AM, laurent gaffie  wrote:

> is protected

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[laurent gaffie]

Freedom of speech and freedom of anonymous speech is protected by the first
amendment..

https://www.eff.org/issues/anonymity




2013/6/11 Philip Whitehouse 

>
> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
> amendment rather than the first one...
>
> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first
> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is the
> only under the realm of the first.
>
> Philip Whitehouse
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Zenny]

This has been came into public attendtion recently, but it has been
published earlier in March 2013 by Bruce Schneider (the twofish crypto
algo developer).

Read here:
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/03/fbi_secretly_sp.html



On 6/12/13, Philip Whitehouse  wrote:
> The problem is we seem to have neither agents with a conscience or
> legislation difficult to change for the spooks and their puppets.
>
> So even if we did have functioning privacy organisations willing to take on
> the government (Hacked Off being a notable exception but even that was
> primarily motivated by celebrity involvement) we'd have no real chance of
> winning.
>
> It comes to something when the best we are ever going to see in the UK is a
> minister in the dock for lying to parliament (unlikely in any case due to
> doublespeak).
>
> Philip Whitehouse
>
> On 12 Jun 2013, at 00:10, Justin Ferguson  wrote:
>
>> A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
>> so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
>> irony will become apparent.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Philip Whitehouse 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
>>> amendment rather than the first one...
>>>
>>> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The
>>> first
>>> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is
>>> the
>>> only under the realm of the first.
>>>
>>> Philip Whitehouse
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Pedro Worcel]

Uhh, discount! That guy, what's his name, was a traitor anyway.

You just cannot believe people.


2013/6/12 Ivan .Heca 

> Maybe all is forgiven if they discount enough
>
>
> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/061113-google-amazon-cloud-270730.html?hpg1=bn
>  A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
> so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
> irony will become apparent.
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Philip Whitehouse 
> wrote:
> >
> > Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
> > amendment rather than the first one...
> >
> > Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The
> first
> > tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is
> the
> > only under the realm of the first.
> >
> > Philip Whitehouse
> >
> > ___
> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
> ___
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> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
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>
> ___
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>



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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Philip Whitehouse]

The problem is we seem to have neither agents with a conscience or legislation 
difficult to change for the spooks and their puppets.

So even if we did have functioning privacy organisations willing to take on the 
government (Hacked Off being a notable exception but even that was primarily 
motivated by celebrity involvement) we'd have no real chance of winning.

It comes to something when the best we are ever going to see in the UK is a 
minister in the dock for lying to parliament (unlikely in any case due to 
doublespeak).

Philip Whitehouse

On 12 Jun 2013, at 00:10, Justin Ferguson  wrote:

> A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
> so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
> irony will become apparent.
> 
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Philip Whitehouse  wrote:
>> 
>> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
>> amendment rather than the first one...
>> 
>> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first
>> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is the
>> only under the realm of the first.
>> 
>> Philip Whitehouse
>> 
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
>> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
>> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Noel Butler]

Justin,


>  illegally (by AU standards) accessed and passed onto ASD or the like,
> however, if AU data stayed within AU, there is no chance in fuck your
> out of control govt can access it to pass onto our spies, nor any way
> our spies can locally access that data without a court order,
> something the NSA is apparently even required to get to spy on its
> citizens (but does not need to spy of non US citizens - which is where
> the outcry is), but clearly doesn't from all the CNN reports I;ve
> seen.


Let me also make it clear to you, in a previous life I was in such
position working at an ISP/telco here, so I know fully well what our
LEO's and spies can and can not do, to capture the data similar to NSA
is doing, it is the telco providor that must enable this, and only then
to a direct specific circuit and only under court order, not a free for
all dont give a fuck catch-and-store-all like NSA is doing.

So, if AU businesses kept their email in AU, they have far stronger
protections than if they left it in the U.S. despite being a member of
that not so secret club.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Noel Butler]

On Tue, 2013-06-11 at 20:49 -0400, Justin Ferguson wrote:


> > some parts like certain eastern European countries might have less, but the 
> > NSA makes the Stasi look like a boys choir.
> 
> Now, that, that is rubbish. I'm assuming you're German. You're doing
> your countries history a disservice with such nonsense and hyperbole.


You assume too much fool, I'm far from German


> 
> Yeah, indeed, I remember being at CCC in IIRC 2007 when they came for
> Julian. But no really, the German government is *THE* exception in the
> world,


There actually are other EU countries as well, with high standards, do
your homework, and I'm not your educator

>  they don't spy on you or anyone else, also, we have the london
> bridge in Arizona, I bet it would look good over the Rhine, would you
> like to be the london bridge?
> 


NFI what that is nor do I care


> > The good thing about NSA doing this, is in the past 2 days I have 29 
> > clients in Australia  instruct me to move them off amazon, gmail, and 365 > 
> > - for local hosting with local owned business with no ties to U.S.
> 
> Dear god, I hope you don't look up the ASIO or you know, the
> 5-eyes/AUSCANNZUKUS.
> 


I am Australian, and I am fully aware of the eyes of 5, however, my
statement stands, the protections in this country far far far exceed
that of what your country does, and it likely wont be directly to ASIO,
it would be more like ASD, and inside this country they can NOT just spy
on data for the fucking sake of it like your country does, I am aware
that NSA would pass certain information they illegally (by AU standards)
accessed and passed onto ASD or the like,  however, if AU data stayed
within AU, there is no chance in fuck your out of control govt can
access it to pass onto our spies, nor any way our spies can locally
access that data without a court order, something the NSA is apparently
even required to get to spy on its citizens (but does not need to spy of
non US citizens - which is where the outcry is), but clearly doesn't
from all the CNN reports I;ve seen.

anyway, I better let you trundle off to your office in the NSA now ta
ta.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Valdis . Kletnieks]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 19:10:53 -0400, Justin Ferguson said:
> A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
> so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
> irony will become apparent.

To be fair - they appear to know more about the US Constitution than
most Americans.


pgpPiutt3xDpu.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Justin Ferguson]

> Truth be told, that statement is utter rubbish,

Hah.
http://www.dw.de/intelligence-service-report-confirms-bnd-spied-on-reporters/a-2032833
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/How_German_intelligence_infiltrated_Focus_magazine
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-world-from-berlin-bnd-agents-knew-what-they-were-doing-a-549765.html
http://www.foebud.org/bnd-setzt-bundestrojaner-tausendfach-ein

> some parts like certain eastern European countries might have less, but the 
> NSA makes the Stasi look like a boys choir.

Now, that, that is rubbish. I'm assuming you're German. You're doing
your countries history a disservice with such nonsense and hyperbole.
Total sidenote, what year did Germany go through a "de-stasi-fication"
ala the de-baath-ification of Iraq or the de-Nazi-fication? Oh yeah
you didnt. Don't look too hard at Nord Stream or Gazprom Germania and
I bet all those old timers grandfathered in at the top tiers of
deutsch telekom don't think like old-time spooks.. You realize that
Berlin isn't just a hotspot for the worlds intelligence community but
basically THE hotspot right? Go ask the people at CCCB about the
people who used to surveil them when they first moved in.

> Germany has ruled the scale of spying such as the NSA's is not only illegal, 
> but unconstitutional. BDN certainly dont sit on their arses, but
> they are not out of control like U.S. is, gathering data on every person in 
> the world, just is case in 5 years time one might have a radical view
> against the U.S. government.

Yeah, indeed, I remember being at CCC in IIRC 2007 when they came for
Julian. But no really, the German government is *THE* exception in the
world, they don't spy on you or anyone else, also, we have the london
bridge in Arizona, I bet it would look good over the Rhine, would you
like to be the london bridge?

> The good thing about NSA doing this, is in the past 2 days I have 29 clients 
> in Australia  instruct me to move them off amazon, gmail, and 365 > - for 
> local hosting with local owned business with no ties to U.S.

Dear god, I hope you don't look up the ASIO or you know, the
5-eyes/AUSCANNZUKUS.

Every country in the world engages in intelligence collection, it
doesnt matter where your server is, if a country feels inclined,
they're in it, watching your data. Everything else is feel good
fluff.. Expect them.





.

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Noel  wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-06-11 at 19:08 -0400, Justin Ferguson wrote:
>
> And you think the BND does what for a living exactly? Truth be told,
> most of Europe has weaker laws when regarding intelligence gathering
>
>
> Truth be told, that statement is utter rubbish, some parts like certain
> eastern European countries might have less, but the NSA makes the Stasi look
> like a boys choir.
>
> Germany has ruled the scale of spying such as the NSA's is not only illegal,
> but unconstitutional. BDN certainly dont sit on their arses, but they are
> not out of control like U.S. is, gathering data on every person in the
> world, just is case in 5 years time one might have a radical view against
> the U.S. government.
>
> The good thing about NSA doing this, is in the past 2 days I have 29 clients
> in Australia  instruct me to move them off amazon, gmail, and 365 - for
> local hosting with local owned business with no ties to U.S.
>
>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Ivan .Heca]

Maybe all is forgiven if they discount enough

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/061113-google-amazon-cloud-270730.html?hpg1=bn
A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
irony will become apparent.

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Philip Whitehouse  wrote:
>
> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
> amendment rather than the first one...
>
> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first
> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is
the
> only under the realm of the first.
>
> Philip Whitehouse
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Justin Ferguson]

A Canadian and what appears to be a British subject discussing the not
so finer points of American legislation. I'm sure at some point the
irony will become apparent.

On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Philip Whitehouse  wrote:
>
> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
> amendment rather than the first one...
>
> Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first
> tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is the
> only under the realm of the first.
>
> Philip Whitehouse
>
> ___
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Justin Ferguson]

> What? I am not from EEUU, so why should I be happy with this? I have my own 
> constitution and it is been ignored and crushed be EEUU,
> Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Dropbox, Amazon?, UK etc.

Spies spy, amazing I know. It's generally illegal when one gets
caught, thus the danger inherent in non-official cover, but at the end
of the day, there is not an intelligence agency in the world that
really cares about your local legislation sans maybe your own
countries intelligence agency.

>Their Naurs devices get my info even if I store my data in Germany (My link to 
>Germany goes through EEUU).

And you think the BND does what for a living exactly? Truth be told,
most of Europe has weaker laws when regarding intelligence gathering
than the US, not stronger. Yes, I'm aware there's privacy legislation,
yadda yadda, I think if that's your response youre being willingly
naive and will one day find yourself shocked.

>SSL is not the solution for every case.

If you're speaking of state level intruders, its never a solution.


> I hope the people that adhere to this idea also adhere to the China spying 
> network (and other around the world). Do not you? :)

Welcome to 4.5/5th generation warfare, enjoy your stay mate.


On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:02 PM, Pablo  wrote:
> What? I am not from EEUU, so why should I be happy with this? I have my own
> constitution and it is been ignored and crushed be EEUU, Google, Yahoo,
> Microsoft, Dropbox, Amazon?, UK etc.
>
> Their Naurs devices get my info even if I store my data in Germany (My link
> to Germany goes through EEUU). SSL is not the solution for every case.
>
> I hope the people that adhere to this idea also adhere to the China spying
> network (and other around the world). Do not you? :)
>
> Regards,
>
>
> El 10/06/2013 10:15 p.m., laurent gaffie escribió:
>
> Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
> echellon and the patriot act didnt we? This program was unconstinutional at
> the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
> that time...
>
> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
> amendment rather than the first one...
>
> Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca"  a écrit :
>>
>> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Philip Whitehouse]

> Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second 
> amendment rather than the first one...
> 
Well this relates mainly to the fourth amendment, not the first. The first 
tends to get decent coverage. Publication of the leak by journalists is the 
only under the realm of the first.

Philip Whitehouse___
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Pablo]

What? I am not from EEUU, so why should I be happy with this? I have my 
own constitution and it is been ignored and crushed be EEUU, Google, 
Yahoo, Microsoft, Dropbox, Amazon?, UK etc.


Their Naurs devices get my info even if I store my data in Germany (My 
link to Germany goes through EEUU). SSL is not the solution for every case.


I hope the people that adhere to this idea also adhere to the China 
spying network (and other around the world). Do not you? :)


Regards,


El 10/06/2013 10:15 p.m., laurent gaffie escribió:


Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew 
about echellon and the patriot act didnt we? This program was 
unconstinutional at the first place and should have raised indignation 
when it was approved at that time...


Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second 
amendment rather than the first one...


Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca" > a écrit :


http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud


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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Reed Black]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:15 PM, laurent gaffie
 wrote:
> Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
> echellon and the patriot act didnt we?

There is more opportunity for action once the press is helping the
public understand the basics. Before this, it was more difficult to be
taken seriously.


> This program was unconstinutional at
> the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
> that time...

Many tried and didn't get a serious hearing. They were largely
relegated to kook status.

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Lorenz Intichar]

Justin Ferguson wrote:

"Think about it: In order for cloud computing solutions to be seen as
viable alternatives to more traditional desktop solutions users --
personal and business users alike -- need to be 100 percent certain
their data is secure."

WTF? Most Most Small- to Medium-Sized Businesses are not
security-minded enough (even if they had the financial means) to
secure their local networks properly, so keeping the data local makes
it readable not only to government agencies, but to anyone else who´s
willing to invest some time and trouble.
Local data is either a case of "hopefully I´m obscure enough to be
secure" or an attitude like "driving a car is safer than taking the
airplane because I´m doing the driving myself".#

Regards,
Lorenz
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Justin Ferguson]

Ignoring that I'm replying to this from an ec2 box and thus the cloud
is obviously not dead. We can't accept the first premise:

"Think about it: In order for cloud computing solutions to be seen as
viable alternatives to more traditional desktop solutions users --
personal and business users alike -- need to be 100 percent certain
their data is secure."

I don't always need security, but when I do, I put it on a shared
hosting provider that probably doesnt even have proper hardware
support and uses  buggy software to make it seem like I'm on a
different computer.

entertainment news is yellow journalism.

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:45 PM, Ivan .Heca  wrote:
> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
>
>
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Daniel Preussker]

+1 (including +1 for the 'rant' about cloud)


Daniel Preussker

[ Security Consultant, Network & Protocol Security and Cryptography
[ LPI & Novell Certified Linux Engineer and Researcher
[ +49 178 600 96 30
[ dan...@preussker.net
[ http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x87E736968E490AA1

On 11.06.2013, at 03:30, Jeffrey Walton wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:15 PM, laurent gaffie
>  wrote:
>> Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
>> echelon and the patriot act didn't we? This program was unconstitutional at
>> the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
>> that time...
> +1.
> 
> Below is my standard verbiage on clouds and backups to clouds.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> clouds and drop boxes. If you don’t want your data analyzed,
> inspected, shared, or mishandled, then don’t provide it in the first
> place. Data migration includes backups, so ensure you are using the
> proper attributes on your files. For Apple systems, the file should
> have kCFURLIsExcludedFromBackupKey file property or
> com.apple.MobileBackup extended attribute (see Technical Q&A QA1719
> for details). Android applications should add android:allowBackup on
> the application tag and set it to false in AndroidManifest.xml.
> Windows’ integrated cloud backup is new, and there’s currently no way
> for an application to back up to the cloud (and hence, no way to stop
> it).
> 
> A layman’s analysis of License Agreements and Terms and Conditions
> will reveal how little security is afforded to your documents in cloud
> storage. For those who don’t read them, one popular platform has 142
> separate documents covering Terms of Conditions for its cloud
> alone.[18] The documents discuss your rights if the company (1) gives
> away your data, (2) shares you data with partners, (3) looses your
> data, (4) provides your data to authorities (sometimes without an
> order or warrant), (5) does not provide reasonable skill or care, (6)
> commits willful misconduct or fraud, and (7) acts with negligence or
> gross negligence. “Your rights” is misleading since it is consent, and
> the document effectively states you indemnify the company: “You agree
> to defend, indemnify and hold [company], its affiliates, subsidiaries,
> directors, officers, employees, agents, partners, contractors, and
> licensors harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable
> attorneys’ fees, made by a third party.”[19]
> 
> [18] iCloud Terms and Conditions,
> https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ww/
> [19] iCLOUD TERMS AND CONDITIONS,
> https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html
> 
>> Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca"  a écrit :
>>> 
>>> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
>>> 
> 
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Kurt Buff]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:15 PM, laurent gaffie
>  wrote:
>> Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
>> echelon and the patriot act didn't we? This program was unconstitutional at
>> the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
>> that time...
> +1.
>
> Below is my standard verbiage on clouds and backups to clouds.
>
> Jeff
>
> clouds and drop boxes. If you don’t want your data analyzed,
> inspected, shared, or mishandled, then don’t provide it in the first
> place.


http://technet.microsoft.com/library/cc722487.aspx

Numbers 3 and 6, at a minimum - from 1999/2000, or thereabouts.

Kurt

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Ivan .Heca]

A number of cloud provider business plans will need tweaking now
On 11/06/2013 11:30 AM, "Jeffrey Walton"  wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:15 PM, laurent gaffie
>  wrote:
> > Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
> > echelon and the patriot act didn't we? This program was unconstitutional
> at
> > the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved
> at
> > that time...
> +1.
>
> Below is my standard verbiage on clouds and backups to clouds.
>
> Jeff
>
> clouds and drop boxes. If you don’t want your data analyzed,
> inspected, shared, or mishandled, then don’t provide it in the first
> place. Data migration includes backups, so ensure you are using the
> proper attributes on your files. For Apple systems, the file should
> have kCFURLIsExcludedFromBackupKey file property or
> com.apple.MobileBackup extended attribute (see Technical Q&A QA1719
> for details). Android applications should add android:allowBackup on
> the application tag and set it to false in AndroidManifest.xml.
> Windows’ integrated cloud backup is new, and there’s currently no way
> for an application to back up to the cloud (and hence, no way to stop
> it).
>
> A layman’s analysis of License Agreements and Terms and Conditions
> will reveal how little security is afforded to your documents in cloud
> storage. For those who don’t read them, one popular platform has 142
> separate documents covering Terms of Conditions for its cloud
> alone.[18] The documents discuss your rights if the company (1) gives
> away your data, (2) shares you data with partners, (3) looses your
> data, (4) provides your data to authorities (sometimes without an
> order or warrant), (5) does not provide reasonable skill or care, (6)
> commits willful misconduct or fraud, and (7) acts with negligence or
> gross negligence. “Your rights” is misleading since it is consent, and
> the document effectively states you indemnify the company: “You agree
> to defend, indemnify and hold [company], its affiliates, subsidiaries,
> directors, officers, employees, agents, partners, contractors, and
> licensors harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable
> attorneys’ fees, made by a third party.”[19]
>
> [18] iCloud Terms and Conditions,
> https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ww/
> [19] iCLOUD TERMS AND CONDITIONS,
> https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html
>
> > Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca"  a écrit :
> >>
> >>
> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
> >>
>
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> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 9:15 PM, laurent gaffie
 wrote:
> Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
> echelon and the patriot act didn't we? This program was unconstitutional at
> the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
> that time...
+1.

Below is my standard verbiage on clouds and backups to clouds.

Jeff

clouds and drop boxes. If you don’t want your data analyzed,
inspected, shared, or mishandled, then don’t provide it in the first
place. Data migration includes backups, so ensure you are using the
proper attributes on your files. For Apple systems, the file should
have kCFURLIsExcludedFromBackupKey file property or
com.apple.MobileBackup extended attribute (see Technical Q&A QA1719
for details). Android applications should add android:allowBackup on
the application tag and set it to false in AndroidManifest.xml.
Windows’ integrated cloud backup is new, and there’s currently no way
for an application to back up to the cloud (and hence, no way to stop
it).

A layman’s analysis of License Agreements and Terms and Conditions
will reveal how little security is afforded to your documents in cloud
storage. For those who don’t read them, one popular platform has 142
separate documents covering Terms of Conditions for its cloud
alone.[18] The documents discuss your rights if the company (1) gives
away your data, (2) shares you data with partners, (3) looses your
data, (4) provides your data to authorities (sometimes without an
order or warrant), (5) does not provide reasonable skill or care, (6)
commits willful misconduct or fraud, and (7) acts with negligence or
gross negligence. “Your rights” is misleading since it is consent, and
the document effectively states you indemnify the company: “You agree
to defend, indemnify and hold [company], its affiliates, subsidiaries,
directors, officers, employees, agents, partners, contractors, and
licensors harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable
attorneys’ fees, made by a third party.”[19]

[18] iCloud Terms and Conditions,
https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/ww/
[19] iCLOUD TERMS AND CONDITIONS,
https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html

> Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca"  a écrit :
>>
>> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
>>

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Re: [Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[laurent gaffie]

Why is the Prims program such a big deal today?  Most of us  knew about
echellon and the patriot act didnt we? This program was unconstinutional at
the first place and should have raised indignation when it was approved at
that time...

Seems like some people spend way to much time focusing on the second
amendment rather than the first one...
Le 2013-06-10 19:46, "Ivan .Heca"  a écrit :

> http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
>
> ___
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
>
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[Full-disclosure] Why PRISM kills the cloud | Computerworld Blogs

[Ivan .Heca]

http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/cloud-storage/22305/why-prism-kills-cloud
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