Re: Some Thoughts From Can America Survive

1999-07-08 Thread Bob McDaniel



Thomas Lunde wrote:

  The Internet gives the
 tradional and eccentric, the conventional and the doomsayer a forum for
 discussion.  Is this not futurework?  As each of us read - and agree or not
 with each posting, are we not retraining ourselves for some valuable but yet
 unseen futurework?  I believe we are.

I made a similar point in a previous post:

Others who are retired find a useful outlet for
pent-up energies and frustrations by exploiting the internet. In that process
valuable skills are being acquired, but who thinks of that?  Suddenly one may
awaken and realize: Hey, I'm a webmaster!

There are probably numerous instances of hobbies, volunteering, etc. being
turned into full-time or part-time jobs. This sort of thing also occurs during
a full-time occupation and can result in the founding of a new business.

This process may also be related to invention - the sudden insight that emerges
from the juxtaposition of often unrelated ideas and leads to a new product or
social innovation.


--
http://publish.uwo.ca/~mcdaniel/



Some Thoughts From Can America Survive

1999-07-07 Thread Thomas Lunde

Unless a solution is found to the problem of disposing of nuclear waste, 
continued use of fission is causing an environmental disaster of large
proportions. In fact, because the cost of eliminating the radioactive waste
(or storing it for thousands of years) is not known, it is not known whether
nuclear fission has an energy yield of greater than one. It may well be the
case that the current generation is imposing on future generations an energy
cost (for storage of radioactive waste from nuclear fission) that far
exceeds the amount of energy that we are obtaining from nuclear fission.
Mankind¹s current generation has clearly discounted the cost to future
generations to essentially zero, or it would not use nuclear fission until a
method was found for eliminating the radioactive waste.

Of course, this would not be the first time that a human generation has
totally disregarded the welfare of future generations. The present
generation of human beings is in the process of depleting all of the world¹s
natural gas and oil, and much of its coal. These fuels are obviously of high
value and are irreplaceable ­ once they are gone they are gone forever. The
present generation does not care a whit about the fact that it is denying
them to all future generations, forever. The same is true of species that it
exterminates. They are gone forever.

The current generation of human beings is in the process of making the
planet totally uninhabitable for all future generations. The industrialized
human species ­ economic man ­ is morally bankrupt. It is ravaging the
planet, consuming all of its wealth as rapidly as it can, all in the
interest of making a fast buck, regardless of the consequences to other
species or even later generations of its own. It is a cancer on the planet,
devouring its bounty and beauty, destroying an exquisite balance of nature
that has lasted for eons, and leaving in its wake a ravaged planet infected
with radioactive and toxic waste, polluted lakes, rivers, and seas,
decimated forests, extinguished species, and a poisoned atmosphere.

Thomas:

My, my, he does wax eloquent - but is he right?  It's a change of
perspective isn't it.  If your focus is on cheap energy then his are the
ravings of an idiot who wants to curtail a vital civic need, ie cheap
energy.  If your focus is economic and cheap energy is needed for industrial
growth, then his is a dangerous voice.  But - what if his perspective is the
correct assessment?  Then cheap energy and industrial growth become ills
equal to genocide or germ warfare.  What if the correct viewpoint is
sustainability rather than growth.  Then, we are following Hitler, following
policies that will exterminate the human race, rather than just the Jewish
race.

On FutureWork, our topic is work - which we, along with the rest of society
assume is essential for survival.  But what if work is the path to no
survival?  Are we then not philosophers arguing over how many needles can
fit on the head of a pin, without asking what the purpose of the argument
is?  When we examine work, which surprisingly enough we do, in my opinion,
in the most eclectic of fashions, all sorts of presuppositions, myths,
assumptions, verities, facts and truths come to light before our collective
minds and various experiences and learnings.  The Internet gives the
tradional and eccentric, the conventional and the doomsayer a forum for
discussion.  Is this not futurework?  As each of us read - and agree or not
with each posting, are we not retraining ourselves for some valuable but yet
unseen futurework?  I believe we are.

Respectfully,

Thomas Lunde







?











Re: Some Thoughts From Can America Survive

1999-07-07 Thread Steve Kurtz

Thank you Thomas for thoughtfully restating some of the questions that I
have tried to ask during my three years on this list. Attention to the
quality and durability of human societies demands that jobs/work not be
bound by traditional economic definitions. 

Steve

(excerpt)
Thomas Lunde:

 But - what if his perspective is the
correct assessment?  Then cheap energy and industrial growth become ills
equal to genocide or germ warfare.  What if the correct viewpoint is
sustainability rather than growth.  Then, we are following Hitler,
following
policies that will exterminate the human race, rather than just the
Jewish
race.

On FutureWork, our topic is work - which we, along with the rest of
society
assume is essential for survival.  But what if work is the path to no
survival?  Are we then not philosophers arguing over how many needles
can
fit on the head of a pin, without asking what the purpose of the
argument
is?  When we examine work, which surprisingly enough we do, in my
opinion,
in the most eclectic of fashions, all sorts of presuppositions, myths,
assumptions, verities, facts and truths come to light before our
collective
minds and various experiences and learnings.  The Internet gives the
tradional and eccentric, the conventional and the doomsayer a forum for
discussion.  Is this not futurework?  As each of us read - and agree or
not
with each posting, are we not retraining ourselves for some valuable but
yet
unseen futurework?  I believe we are.