Re: ZPG & Y6B
I think you have to be wrong about Y8B being unlikely, because of the momentum built into the human age distribution. To fail to reach Y8B would require either a catastrophic die-off or an essentially instantaneous reduction in average birth rates far below 2.0 per couple for the generation presently at reproductive age or below. The alternative to not reaching Y8B or Y10B or whatever, is of course a catastrophic reduction in human living standards. Back to the subject of how ZPG got to where it is, I am afraid I thnnk it is a symptom of a larger problem - that human-run institutions dependent in any significant fashion on the global economy for their continued well-being must fairly quickly reflect the global economy or, as a very talented writer friend who has been shut out of professional writing by it says, "the marketocracy." On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, Gaia Foundation wrote: > Nicholas wrote > > --- "Nicholas C. Arguimbau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Y8B is now inevitable. Will Y10B and Y12B also be > > "milestones"? ZPG's > > slide into complacency has been scary, and also difficult > > to understand. > > What are the forces that caused this? Are > > sexually-transmitted viruses > > the "last best hope" for Gaia? A sad day if they are. > > Given that the Ecological Footprint of 5.9B is equal to 1.3 > planets, and that 40% of the Net Primary Production of > planetary photosynthesis is used for human purpose, and > that our planetary impacts seem to be doubling every 25 > years (i.e. a 3% planetary GDP rate), and given the Nett > Unrecoverable Reserves that Jay Hansen speaks of, it makes > a Y8B very unlikely. We may touch it and go under... > > For the Earth > > John > === > --- > MEMBER OF"The age of nations is past. > THE__The task before us, > / \ /\ | /\ if we would not perish, > | . /__\ | /__\ is to shake off our ancient prejudices > \_/| /\ |/\and build the Earth" > FOUNDATION Pierre Teilhard de Chardin > _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >
Re: ZPG & Y6B
Nicholas wrote --- "Nicholas C. Arguimbau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Y8B is now inevitable. Will Y10B and Y12B also be > "milestones"? ZPG's > slide into complacency has been scary, and also difficult > to understand. > What are the forces that caused this? Are > sexually-transmitted viruses > the "last best hope" for Gaia? A sad day if they are. Given that the Ecological Footprint of 5.9B is equal to 1.3 planets, and that 40% of the Net Primary Production of planetary photosynthesis is used for human purpose, and that our planetary impacts seem to be doubling every 25 years (i.e. a 3% planetary GDP rate), and given the Nett Unrecoverable Reserves that Jay Hansen speaks of, it makes a Y8B very unlikely. We may touch it and go under... For the Earth John === --- MEMBER OF"The age of nations is past. THE__The task before us, / \ /\ | /\ if we would not perish, | . /__\ | /__\ is to shake off our ancient prejudices \_/| /\ |/\and build the Earth" FOUNDATION Pierre Teilhard de Chardin _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: ZPG & Y6B
On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 14:08:54 -0400, Helmut (Ken) Burkhardt wrote: > If we are right, and can't get rational action in time, then the ethnic > cleansing solution will be globalized. Central Europeans, including the > Serbs, have not learned it in the painful lesson of WW2. What are our > chances to achieve it with gentle persuation? With all due respect, as a Central European I must say this is nonsense. (and BTW, Serbia is in _SE_ Europe) 1. The war in Yugoslavia has nothing to do with overpop. Population density as of 1998: [people/km2] Serbia119 Germany 235 Netherlands 464 2. There is virtually NO (domestic) pop growth in Europe. (it's between -0.8% and +0.8%) The issues in Europe (especially Yugoslavia) are: - Economic inequality (e.g. among all former republics of Yugoslavia) - Immigration (e.g. Albania-->Kosovo) - Imperialism (e.g. UK/U$) Of course, at least the latter 2 are a taboo topic too... Greetings, Chris
Re: ZPG & Y6B
Steve, ( ...welcome to Canada). I shall try an explanation of why many put on velvet gloves when dealing with the population issue. Life itself and the procreation of life are 'the' two fundamental, genetically pre-programmed values of all living beings. Without these, we would not be here to discuss the matter. How important procreation is can be seen in the many cases were animal or human individuals sacrifice their own life to save their offspring. Today, sacrificing human life on the altar of 'higher powers' is out of fashion. But, limiting the rights to procreation is, for many, a sacrifice of equal magnitude to the sacrifice of life. The 'right to procreate' is up there with the 'right to life'. It is taboo, one is not supposed to touch that one. What we need is a rational override of the instinctual values. However, to attempt that one must be very sure that it is necessary. But, to be sure on this complex issue is not easy; we are using scientific reasoning, and that has erred before. For example, Rutherford declared in 1929 that anyone who thinks that the newly discovered atomic nucleus had any practical implications was a fool. Even if we have the firm conviction that the capacity for human life of the planet is full, it will take a lot of education on a global scale to achieve rational action on that problem. If we are right, and can't get rational action in time, then the ethnic cleansing solution will be globalized. Central Europeans, including the Serbs, have not learned it in the painful lesson of WW2. What are our chances to achieve it with gentle persuation? Helmut (Ken) Burkhardt Adjunct Professor of Physics Ryerson Polytechnic University Toronto ON Canada M5B 2K3 Tel: 416-979-5000 x 7246 Fax: 416-698-1214 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Connect through the internet to the EVOLUTION OF WORLD ORDER CONFERENCE : ** *** To receive the WOC discussions send a message to: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> (un)subscribe WOC-L firstname secondname *** To contribute a comment to the discussion: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** To see the conference program, the submitted abstracts, and ideas on recommended actions read our WOC-99 website: http://www.pgs.ca/woc/99/woc1999.htm ** - Original Message - From: Steve Kurtz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Friends of Sustainability <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; futurework <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; gaiapc-list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; indicators list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: ZPG & Y6B > Re-post from KZPG (excerpt) by Ed Glaze > > "We don't see Y6B as a problem, but rather a milestone," said > Zero Population Growth Director of Communications Tim Cline. The mission > of > Y6B is to educate women, provide women with economic opportunities and > provide women with more reproductive health care. > > > Ed says: > > Again ZPG seems to avoid taking a stance on stopping or > reducing overpopulation. A milestone is thought of by most > people as an achievement and ZPG states that a population > of 6 billion is not a problem. Whose side are these guys on? > > If one of the leading population organizations implies that > continued growth is not a problem is it any wonder that our > government, media, and couples everywhere are unconcerned > about overpopulation? > > ZPG, by failing to take a stance on overpopulation, is undoing > or at least limiting the impact all its population education > programs may be having. Numbers are important and yet it > is not hard to imagine that in about a dozen years ZPG will > acknowledge yet another milestone -- Y7B.
Re: ZPG & Y6B
Y8B is now inevitable. Will Y10B and Y12B also be "milestones"? ZPG's slide into complacency has been scary, and also difficult to understand. What are the forces that caused this? Are sexually-transmitted viruses the "last best hope" for Gaia? A sad day if they are.
Re: ZPG & Y6B
I guess ZPG doesn't really mean ZPG. John [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Steve Kurtz wrote: > Re-post from KZPG (excerpt) by Ed Glaze > > "We don't see Y6B as a problem, but rather a milestone," said > Zero Population Growth Director of Communications Tim Cline. The mission > of > Y6B is to educate women, provide women with economic opportunities and > provide women with more reproductive health care. > > > Ed says: > > Again ZPG seems to avoid taking a stance on stopping or > reducing overpopulation. A milestone is thought of by most > people as an achievement and ZPG states that a population > of 6 billion is not a problem. Whose side are these guys on? > > If one of the leading population organizations implies that > continued growth is not a problem is it any wonder that our > government, media, and couples everywhere are unconcerned > about overpopulation? > > ZPG, by failing to take a stance on overpopulation, is undoing > or at least limiting the impact all its population education > programs may be having. Numbers are important and yet it > is not hard to imagine that in about a dozen years ZPG will > acknowledge yet another milestone -- Y7B. >
ZPG & Y6B
Re-post from KZPG (excerpt) by Ed Glaze "We don't see Y6B as a problem, but rather a milestone," said Zero Population Growth Director of Communications Tim Cline. The mission of Y6B is to educate women, provide women with economic opportunities and provide women with more reproductive health care. Ed says: Again ZPG seems to avoid taking a stance on stopping or reducing overpopulation. A milestone is thought of by most people as an achievement and ZPG states that a population of 6 billion is not a problem. Whose side are these guys on? If one of the leading population organizations implies that continued growth is not a problem is it any wonder that our government, media, and couples everywhere are unconcerned about overpopulation? ZPG, by failing to take a stance on overpopulation, is undoing or at least limiting the impact all its population education programs may be having. Numbers are important and yet it is not hard to imagine that in about a dozen years ZPG will acknowledge yet another milestone -- Y7B.
