Re: FVWM: .fvwm2rc syntax guide?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] de writes: > On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:01:27 -0500 > Len Philpot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [...] >> never get there. I'm having the do *EVERYTHIHG* by trial and error, >> since the man page is so vague (or maybe I'm just stupid...?). > Hi, > I just wanted to add that fvwm2 is a great window manager - but I agree > that the man page is hard to read and understand! > So here is a little suggestion to improve the man page: Insert a section > (at the beginning) which deals with the basic configuration faqs - and > show examples right there. Most important: Let this section be organized > by *the point of view of a beginner* who just wants to change color of > background, change the root menu, change the window styles. If he passed > that he will have enough starting enegery to go through the rest of the > man page. ;-) So, why don't you go ahead and write something like that? With this ongoing discussion about the manpage, I'd like to add my two cents (US or Euro - I don't know). I've been using fvwm longer than I can remember. However, I can remember the times when it was maintained by Rob Nation, and I think there's still a tape with my config-file for fvwm 1.xy, although I doubt that I can find a drive to read it. The thing I like most about fvwm is it nearly infinite flexibility and configurability. That comes with a price, the documentation is only for someone who is willing to read a whole reference manual before he starts using the program. But even the best documentation would be long (probably too long for newbies) and difficult to understand because for many things you have to understand the whole picture (which sometimes includes more than fvwm). And frankly, I don't want the fvwm developers to write documentation for beginning. I want them to fix old bugs and add new features so I can get more out of it. That works pretty well so far. If fvwm came with a graphical configuration tool, I could as well use Gnome, KDE, or M$-Windows. Also, I don't think the fvwm developers would be very good at writing a tutorial for beginners. You have to remember how it was when you were a newby to write something a newby can understand. It would probably be best if someone who wrote or modified his first fvwm2rc not too long ago would write a few paragraphs about what he wanted and how he achieved it. I'm sure the developers would be willing to comment on it and give advice if there are better ways to achieve the desired behavior. But it's *YOU*, the newbies out there who know what the confusing things are, not the fvwm developers! Fvwm and its documentation are open source, if there's something you don't like, fix it. If you are able to edit your fvwm2rc, you should be able to write a little text about it, you don't need a degree in computer science for that. Thank you for your attention, I go back to lurking now. Rainer -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FVWM: Re: .fvwm2rc syntax guide?
in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote [EMAIL PROTECTED] thusly... > > So here is a little suggestion to improve the man page: Insert a > section (at the beginning) which deals with the basic > configuration faqs - and show examples right there. man pages are there for reference. their function is not to be a collection of FAQ's, tutorials & what not. they can, however, point to other resources which may provide the help that a beginner may need. the default F1 key binding (for fvwm help) could/should point to such tutorials & FAQ's instead of a man page then. let's not spam the man page please. speaking of which, is there any plan in near future to remove "GlobalOpts ... -> Style" pointers? - parv -- -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: .fvwm2rc syntax guide?
Len Philpot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Is there a concise, authoritative guide to the proper syntax, > organization and such of .fvwm2rc contents somewhere? What I see in the > fvwm man page often conflicts with what's in the sample system.fvwm2rc > file Please point out the conflicts so that they can be repaired. > Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am... ... > I can change the border widths and nothing ever happens. There are 2 borderwidths, for windows and menus. For menus, this works: MenuStyle * BorderWidth 10 I suspect you are having problems with the borders on windows. Perhaps you missed this in the man page: With the NoHandles style, the window does not get the handles in the window corners that are commonly used to resize it. With NoHandles, the width from the BorderWidth style is used. By default, or if Handles is is specified, the width from the Han dleWidth style is used. So, if you have Style * NoHandles Then this works: Style * BorderWidth 10 Otherwise, use this: Style * HandleWidth 10 > I'm rapidly reaching my frustration threshold before moving on to > something else. > > There has to be somewhere a definition of exactly what is and isn't > allowed configuration-wise, where specific entries need to go, > recommended order, syntax restrictions, case-sensitivity, etc., etc. > > If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. I really like the speed and small > size of fvwm, but the appalling lack of documentation is about to > convince me to look elsewhere... Fvwm may be speedy and small, but the amount of configuration possible is massive. Hence the extremly large man page, and difficulty getting started. -- Dan Espen E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 444 Hoes Lane Room RRC 1C-214 Phone: (732) 699-5570 Piscataway, NJ 08854 -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: i can't run fvwm 2.4
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 09:14:54AM +, Mikhael Goikhman wrote: > On 23 Aug 2002 23:32:02 +0200, Imre Vida wrote: > > > > This also suggests that the maintainers are aware of (at least some) > > problems on this "front". This is to put it very softly, as John did > > it earlier "a bit naughty" against all those "stupid users" like me. > > Well, the multibyte support is marked experimental in 2.4.x and disabled > by default. Sorry it caused you any problems. sorry, the criticism was not directed against you. I was just somewhat puzzled by what you said. To have an experimetal feature is fine, but to have it enabled in a "stable" distribution (Debian and RH) is not - especially when it is not documented for the user. But again this should be directed to a different forum. imre -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: Pager improvement suggestion
On 19 August, 2002 - Dominik Vogt sent me these 1,1K bytes:
> > > And the current page would be updated with some interval, but the question
> > > is. But doing screenshots using imort is quite time consuming, so maybe
> > > another aproach is needed, like only updateing some of the windows each
> > > time...
> >
> > The Gnome 1.x pager does incremental "screenshot" line by line at a small
> > delay between each screen line..
>
> And what does it do for not viewable pages?
Nothing.. until you view those pages..
/Tomas
--
Tomas Ögren, [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.ing.umu.se/~stric/
|- Student at Computing Science, University of Umeå
`- Sysadmin at {cs,ing,acc}.umu.se
--
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Re: FVWM: .fvwm2rc syntax guide?
On 23 Aug 2002 22:01:27 -0500, Len Philpot wrote: > > Is there a concise, authoritative guide to the proper syntax, > organization and such of .fvwm2rc contents somewhere? What I see in the > fvwm man page often conflicts with what's in the sample system.fvwm2rc > file and the few pointers I do find in the man pages are scattered and > terse, to say the least. The only authoritative guide to the proper syntax is man pages. You may just start with an empty file and put any commands described in the man page in any order according to your needs. Use functions for efficiency. Usually you need at least: # StartFunction to start modules, InitFunction to start apps # mouse and key bindings # color definitions, I suggest to use colorsets # window decorations including border, buttons, title bar # menu definitions # module configurations # global and window specific styles If you want examples, I can suggest is to take a look at the themes of fvwm-themes. For example, here is the content of the default theme: background + bindings + buttons + colors + cursors fonts + functions + functions-appbind + globalfeel + globallook + menus + menus-programs + menustyle + modules/ settings/ sound startup + styles + windowlook Most of these components are plain fvwmrc configs, but not all. There are several special functions that make the whole thing configurable and efficient that you may ignore when creating .fvwm2rc. I marked by plus the components that you may just learn from. If you like the concept of dividing the entire configuration into replaceable components, you may customize fvwm-themes by creating your own theme (directory) with several components (files), but read its FAQ first. > Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am... > > I've just spent 30 minutes or more with one MenuStyle line trying to get > it to work (without success). Despite close to an hour's work, I've > been unable to get FvwmTaskBar to appear at the bottom of the screen > (despite following the examples from the man page). I can change the > border widths and nothing ever happens. I've used the recommended > geometry, but it always appears at the top of the screen. I'm light > years away from doing anything useful with it, but at this rate I'll > never get there. I'm having the do *EVERYTHIHG* by trial and error, > since the man page is so vague (or maybe I'm just stupid...?). Do the following. Open FvwmConsole (start it in StartFunction or bind to a menu). Then type these commands in FvwmConsole: *FvwmTaskBar: Geometry +0-0 FvwmTaskBar Does it still appear on the top? Is it possible you change another .fvwm2rc? You should edit ~/.fvwm/.fvwm2rc. > I'm rapidly reaching my frustration threshold before moving on to > something else. > > There has to be somewhere a definition of exactly what is and isn't > allowed configuration-wise, where specific entries need to go, > recommended order, syntax restrictions, case-sensitivity, etc., etc. > > If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. I really like the speed and small > size of fvwm, but the appalling lack of documentation is about to > convince me to look elsewhere... The man pages are complete, although may contain small glitches that are constantly fixed. Please try to narrow your problems with documentation. For each problem start a new thread here and specify what you did, what you got and what you want/expect to get. Provide all relevent details. Regards, Mikhael. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: i can't run fvwm 2.4
On 23 Aug 2002 23:32:02 +0200, Imre Vida wrote: > > This also suggests that the maintainers are aware of (at least some) > problems on this "front". This is to put it very softly, as John did > it earlier "a bit naughty" against all those "stupid users" like me. Well, the multibyte support is marked experimental in 2.4.x and disabled by default. Sorry it caused you any problems. Regards, Mikhael. -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FVWM: .fvwm2rc syntax guide?
On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 22:01:27 -0500 Len Philpot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [...] > never get there. I'm having the do *EVERYTHIHG* by trial and error, > since the man page is so vague (or maybe I'm just stupid...?). Hi, I just wanted to add that fvwm2 is a great window manager - but I agree that the man page is hard to read and understand! So here is a little suggestion to improve the man page: Insert a section (at the beginning) which deals with the basic configuration faqs - and show examples right there. Most important: Let this section be organized by *the point of view of a beginner* who just wants to change color of background, change the root menu, change the window styles. If he passed that he will have enough starting enegery to go through the rest of the man page. ;-) (I hope the one who wrote the man page is not insalted ... ;-) Bye Felix -- Visit the official FVWM web page at http://www.fvwm.org/>. To unsubscribe from the list, send "unsubscribe fvwm" in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To report problems, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
