Which book to buy?

[btripp]

Hi guys,

  I need an opinion.  Or several as the case may be.

  I'm torn between buying a new 12" ibook G4 and a 12" Powerbook.  It has to 
be 12".  I really like the new ibook but am concerned about having only an 
800mhz processor and the smaller cache and lesser graphics.  I can however, 
trick the thing out with 640mb of ram, airport and the 3 year extended 
warranty for about the same price as the powerbook with the options I need.

  The Powerbook however is faster, has a bigger cache and better video.  Plus 
I could always upgrade the ram far beyond what the ibook allows right?

  I guess what I'm asking for are your opinions on which book to buy.  I will 
be using it for mostly internet and word processing, but will need the 
occasional power to run gis applications or some other apps.  How good is the 
800mhz ibook compared to the 1ghz powerbook?  To muddy the water more, what 
about the 867mhz powerbook?  It has different video than both of the others 
though right?

  Thanks in advance!  Feel free to reply offlist if this has been discussed 
too recently!

  -Ben


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Re: Panther on Lombard install problem

[Richard Smykla]

Robert,

I had the exact same problem during the install. The only way I could 
find to complete the install was to remove the RAM from the upper 
slot. No amount of PRAM zapping, video driver deletion, permissions 
repairing, or even reformatting the destination drive would change 
the 'color-meltdown' abortive install process. Removing the top-slot 
RAM worked. BTW, running an exhaustive RAM check utility from OS 9 
finds NO problem with the memory module, and I never saw a similar 
problem in any version of OS X from 10.1 up to 10.2.6.

The good news is you can reinstall the RAM module once you've got a 
working Panther OS. Everything works as it should, with one major 
exception: trying to repair permissions using Disk Utility. Since 
installing Panther on this machine, any attempt to repair permissions 
from the boot disk will cause the color-meltdown every time. The only 
other time I've gotten the meltdown event is during a large (> 200MB) 
network copy from the Lombard to my G4. Smaller copies seem OK. I'm 
not sure what the problem is, but it seems the video RAM gets 
corrupted during these operations, and locks the system up tight (no 
cursor movement or response to keyboard) - the three-finger salute is 
the only thing that will get you out of this condition.

It seems clear (to me at least) that this is a (OS) software 
problem/conflict. Hope someone eventually figures this out, or Apple 
supplies a fix. Being as it only happens when more than the supported 
amount of RAM (256MB) is installed, I doubt Apple is too concerned 
with this. This problem only began happening with the 10.2.8 version 
of the OS, and has persisted through the 10.3.2 revision. Feel free 
to post any ideas or suggestions you may discover about this; I've 
scoured the 'net, and have yet to find a solution. Good luck. . .

Rick


I have a lombard with 512 RAM and 40GB HD. currently running the 
latest version of 10.2.   When i try to install Panther it gets most 
of the way through the install and then the screen goes "funky" as 
if both the vertical and horizontal hold both go at the same time. i 
tried an archive and install, completely wiping the HD with norton 
and installing nothing but Panther, but it refuses to install. i got 
the same problem with the ill fated 10.2.something upgrade that i 
was dumb enough to install right when it was new.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated


--
Rick Smykla
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Re: Panther on Lombard install problem

[Krevnik]

Just curious, but did you ask this question before, because I recall a 
message on the G-Books list with this exact problem. I personally have 
not had any problems installing Panther, however, I have less RAM 
(320MB). My suggestion is to remove one of the RAM DIMMs and try an 
Archive/Install... as RAM seems to be the problem in these cases.

On Dec 30, 2003, at 11:27 AM, rgeaston wrote:

I have a lombard with 512 RAM and 40GB HD. currently running the 
latest version of 10.2.   When i try to install Panther it gets most 
of the way through the install and then the screen goes "funky" as if 
both the vertical and horizontal hold both go at the same time. i 
tried an archive and install, completely wiping the HD with norton and 
installing nothing but Panther, but it refuses to install. i got the 
same problem with the ill fated 10.2.something upgrade that i was dumb 
enough to install right when it was new.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated


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Panther on Lombard install problem

[rgeaston]

I have a lombard with 512 RAM and 40GB HD. currently running the latest 
version of 10.2.   When i try to install Panther it gets most of the 
way through the install and then the screen goes "funky" as if both the 
vertical and horizontal hold both go at the same time. i tried an 
archive and install, completely wiping the HD with norton and 
installing nothing but Panther, but it refuses to install. i got the 
same problem with the ill fated 10.2.something upgrade that i was dumb 
enough to install right when it was new.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated

--
Robert
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting 
different results.
Albert Einstein

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Re: Odd Panther problem on 1gHz 12" PBG4

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

On 12/30/03 5:30 PM, "Hal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I've encountered a strange problem on my 1gHz Powerbook G4 since I
> installed Panther and upgraded to 10.3.2. When I close the lid and put
> the computer to sleep with applications running, it invariably crashed
> on wake. That is, when I open the lid to begin using it again, it
> crashed, sometime immediately, always within a minute or 2. I get the
> dim screen power symbol "Your computer has crashed, please reboot"
> message. I think this is referred to as a kernel panic. I though it
> might be my Kensington Mouseworks software, but removing it didn't
> help. The other 3rd party software I have installed (that I thought
> might be problematic) is Palm Desktop (for OSX) and PocketMac (syncs a
> PocketPC with iSync), but the problem existed before I installed these.
> 
> The G4 has 768MB of ram and was originally running 10.2.8 with no
> crashes ever. It is still completely stable and never crashes if I
> don't put it to sleep. When I bought Panther (retail) and did an
> upgrade install, the problem started. I've since done an archive and
> install to try to fix it, but nothing's changed. Any ideas on how to
> fix, or where I can look to see what's happening?
> 
There have been various complaints about the Mouseworks software but I don't
recall if they've been kernel panic or just usability - might want to check
Apple's support discussion about it. Palm desktop isn't a problem. PocketMac
is just plain screwy - I could never get it to work reliably and thankfully
we dumped PocketPC at work.

Wake from sleep issues can be hardware or software related and are probably
the service request I most hate to see. My routine is this:

0) remove anything from the computer that isn't stock - including your
memory upgrade. Make sure all your software is updated. If the kernel panics
continue go on to step 1. If they stop check out all the extras one by one.
At the shop we had a number of users upgrade to Panther and discover the RAM
that was fine with Jag wasn't with Panther. We've also come across some USB
devices that can cause sleep problems.


1) create a new user account, restart, and log into it
Don't install anything. You'll need to reconfigure for internet and of
course your addressbook, bookmarks, your data, etc won't be available.
That's a bit of a pain but this is the best way to quickly determine if the
problem is with your account or not.

1a) If you do experience any panics it might be the OS or hardware. Our
techs at work and my gurus at the Mac shop disagree as to whether an archive
and install is sufficient or if the hard drive should be formatted first. I
don't format if Disk Utility doesn't find a problem with the drive. If the
panics stop go on to step 2

1c) After reinstalling the OS if you still have kernel panics call Apple.



2) Now the fun begins. Typically there's something in your library folder
that is making the computer unhappy. Again we have disagreement at work and
at the shop. Some of us (me included) figure it isn't worth trying to find
out what is upsetting the computer - there are so many possibilities. I
create a new account, move the data into the new account, and accept that
I'll have to re-serialize some software. I'll save my rant about this for
later. Others figure it is worth playing around to figure out what
preference/config is causing the problem

david

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Odd Panther problem on 1gHz 12" PBG4

[Harry Corsover]

On Dec 30, 2003, at 3:30 PM, Hal wrote:

I've encountered a strange problem on my 1gHz Powerbook G4 since I 
installed Panther and upgraded to 10.3.2. When I close the lid and put 
the computer to sleep with applications running, it invariably crashed 
on wake. That is, when I open the lid to begin using it again, it 
crashed, sometime immediately, always within a minute or 2. I get the 
dim screen power symbol "Your computer has crashed, please reboot" 
message. I think this is referred to as a kernel panic. I though it 
might be my Kensington Mouseworks software, but removing it didn't 
help. The other 3rd party software I have installed (that I thought 
might be problematic) is Palm Desktop (for OSX) and PocketMac (syncs a 
PocketPC with iSync), but the problem existed before I installed 
these.

The G4 has 768MB of ram and was originally running 10.2.8 with no 
crashes ever. It is still completely stable and never crashes if I 
don't put it to sleep. When I bought Panther (retail) and did an 
upgrade install, the problem started. I've since done an archive and 
install to try to fix it, but nothing's changed. Any ideas on how to 
fix, or where I can look to see what's happening?

Any help is appreciated.

-Hal

I'm encountering something similar (15" AlBook, came with Panther, 
updated to 10.3.2), but I've also had kernel panics at other times. 
I've spent quite a few hours on the phone with AppleCare, and I'm 
currently running in a "test" user mode to see if it's something in my 
user:Preferences folder (this is apparently often the case). I'd 
recommend getting on the phone with them and walking through a bunchy 
of troubleshooting steps.

You have done the basics, right? -- Run Disk Utility and repair 
permissions (do this from the one on the hard drive).

-- Boot from the Install disk, and run Disk Utility there and Repair 
Disk.

-- If you've got a version of Disk Warrior you can boot from (the 
latest one won't boot my PowerBook), run that.

We have not yet ruled out a hardware problem, even though I've 
disconnected any non-Apple hardware (external drive, Microsoft 
Intellipoint Optical mouse) and deleted or uninstalled any third-party 
things like Spell Catcher, LaunchBar, iClock.

The next step for me may be to erase the disk and do another install 
(I've already done an Archive and Install, and set up all my 
preferences/settings from scratch (so as not to bring any possible 
corruption over from the old Preferences folder.

Good luck to you. I've been messing with this for the better part of a 
week, still without any clear indication of whether this is hardware or 
software-based. The next day or two running with a Test user may 
clarify this. If my problems don't reappear in this mode, then 
AppleCare will help me figure out which thing(s) in my Preferences 
folder may be causing the problem.

Harry Corsover

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Re: Panther and Norton

[Frank P. Eigler]

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, P. H. Adams wrote:

>
> On Dec 30, 2003, at 1:19 AM, Illovox Media wrote:
>
> > I looked.  Nothing there.  entered journal and it came up with zip
>
> Funny. I just tried this, and got one very relevant entry -- "Using
> journaling to safeguard your information" -- that described journaling,
> Panther's implementation of it, instructions on turning it on, and a
> link to the website for more info. Perhaps you misspelled it?

I just tried it. Nothing.

> --
> P. H. "Patch" Adams
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

PS: Gesundheit?

-- 
Non Illegitimi Carborundum

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Odd Panther problem on 1gHz 12" PBG4

[Hal]

I've encountered a strange problem on my 1gHz Powerbook G4 since I 
installed Panther and upgraded to 10.3.2. When I close the lid and put 
the computer to sleep with applications running, it invariably crashed 
on wake. That is, when I open the lid to begin using it again, it 
crashed, sometime immediately, always within a minute or 2. I get the 
dim screen power symbol "Your computer has crashed, please reboot" 
message. I think this is referred to as a kernel panic. I though it 
might be my Kensington Mouseworks software, but removing it didn't 
help. The other 3rd party software I have installed (that I thought 
might be problematic) is Palm Desktop (for OSX) and PocketMac (syncs a 
PocketPC with iSync), but the problem existed before I installed these.

The G4 has 768MB of ram and was originally running 10.2.8 with no 
crashes ever. It is still completely stable and never crashes if I 
don't put it to sleep. When I bought Panther (retail) and did an 
upgrade install, the problem started. I've since done an archive and 
install to try to fix it, but nothing's changed. Any ideas on how to 
fix, or where I can look to see what's happening?

Any help is appreciated.

-Hal

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Re: MAC Re: Panther and Norton

[Krevnik]

Oh, most definitely safer, because it doesn't muck with allocation 
tables and other stupid garbage. Journaling is designed to happen 
slightly above the normal Filesystem 'layer', where operations can be 
tracked and passed onto the filesystem. A copy of the change record is 
stored in a file elsewhere, and all journalling does is 'replay' these 
changes back to the Filesystem APIs in reverse order back to a 'known 
good state'. Basically, it reverts files back if a file operation 
didn't complete when the crash occurred. Completed operations are not 
reverted, so data is not lost. Allocation tables and other such bits 
aren't even touched by journaling directly, but changed by the 
Filesystem code itself. So journaling is as safe as the filesystem it 
sits on top of is. Norton tried to modify the drive directly, which is 
the wrong way to do file recovery, IMO.

Regards,
Adam
On Dec 29, 2003, at 10:13 PM, James G (Jim) Hardwick wrote:
I hope journalling is safer.

Jim


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Re: TiBook vs. AlBook ??

[Frank P. Eigler]

I guess YMMV is true.

I'm on a 867MHz TiBk, using an airport card and Belkin 802.11g wireless
router.

I can get signal in my front yard with the router hooked up in the kitchen
at the back of the (2nd floor) apartment. That's 3 walls, including the
outer (stucco) @ appx 80'.


On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, Paul Nicholson wrote:

> I don't have an AlBook, but I do have a tiBook, and it's WiFi is
> miserable. It would barely do 25 feet straight line of site with no
> obstructions between my kitchen table and dining room table. Forget
> going an even shorter distance through a sheet rock wall. tiBook WiFi
> is lame.
>
> On Dec 26, 2003, at 9:28 AM, Andrew, a Mac Freak wrote:
>
> >> tiBook WiFi is lame.
> >
> > Do you mean AlBook?
>
>
>

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Re: Wallstreet Hard Drive

[Al Poulin]

Clyde Kahrl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have tried to put a 4.5 gig travelstar--(orig equip lombard) into
> my wall street.

I've been lurking around trying to learn.

Some of the gurus here will have to confirm.  But I seem to remember reading
here a few weeks ago that the ribbon cables for the drives on the Lombard
and the WallStreet are different.  You need to bring over the cable as well
as the drive to the other machine.

-- 
Al Poulin


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Re: 10.3.2 on Pismo?

[Gavin Tiplady]

Hi Sam,

I did an upgrade from Jaguar to Panther on my Pismo (G3/400, 1Gb RAM), 
and have updated to 10.3.2 since.

There is nothing to complain about, except a feeling - now a certain 
knowledge, that Safari is so sluggish as to be almost broken.

When I click links on a page on the Pismo then turn leisurely across to 
click the same link on my lower powered Wallstreet (G3/292, 256Mb 
running 10.2.6) the latter fetches and repaints instantly - long before 
the Pismo.

Not sure whether Safari was faster under 10.3.1 though, and generally 
the Pismo is completely stable, so I can't point to any particular 
issue with 10.3.2.

cheers,
GT
On 30/12/2003, at 17:03, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Looking for experiences from those who are running OS 10.3.2 on a 
Pismo. Did
you run into any problems, or experience any change in performance? 
I've
been reading about some slowdowns and glitches (and have since seen a 
few
fixes), but I'm wondering if I should stick at 10.3.1 for a while, 
perhaps
even until 10.3.3.

Thanks -
Sam
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Re: Panther on a Lombard?

[Alan C . Magnus]

On Dec 29, 2003, at 8:55 pm, Kevin Thomas wrote:

I also have a Lombard 400 G3 that I'd like to upgrade to Panther.  Any 
experiences/recommendations?  I have a 15 Gig Toshiba hd that I am 
going to install and it currently has 192 MB of RAM.

I have a Lombard 333 that I recently replaced with a 15" AlBook, but 
out of curiosity I decided to try Panther on it. The discs I got with 
the AlBook are DVD which ruled out a direct installation. Plus, I have 
read many accounts of installation failures with extra RAM installed on 
the Lombard and I have it maxed out at 512. So, what I did was this:

I took the HD out of the Lombard and put it in an external Firewire 
enclosure. I then plugged it into my Dual 1Gig G4. I then did an 
upgrade install of Panther to the harddrive which previously contained 
10.2.8. After reinstallation into the Lombard, it is up and running 
very well.

Alan

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