Re: [PB]Entourage

[Greg Gilmore]

>> On my daughter's fairly new iBook, I cannot, try as I might, get the silly
>> Mail program to send mail, though it will receive. The outbox doesn't even
>> have a send button. Have tried reinstalling the OS (10.1.4), have repeatedly
>> checked all configurations.

> Not sending mail is invariably a problem with the SMTP settings. Make
> sure they're set correctly (check with your ISP if you have any questions.)

Thanks for the reply, Bruce, but when I mentioned in the orginal query that
I had "repeatedly checked all configurations", that included the SMTP
settings.


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Mick Ring]

on 9/19/02 22:22, Ross Cottrell at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Simple and elegant, no rebuilds
> necessary and no un-sightly bloating.

I wonder what the total disk size of 1 Eudora emails is versus 1
Entourage or Outlook Express emails.



-Mick
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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Hottentot]

>  >Just a question. Is this "easily corrupted" in your own experience, or via
>  >word-of-mouth from others? I've been using Entourage for about a year and a
>>half, and I've never lost and email, and any "corruption" I've had was
>>easily fixed with a database rebuild. I haven't counted recently, but I have
>>well within 5 digits of email in all my trays combinde. (well over 10,000
>>emails). I've never had a corrupted database--only bloated. I've certainly
>>never been forced to rebuild the database because I was unable to open it,
>>and I've never lost an email.
>>
>>For the record, Claris Emailer 2 also used the single database approach,
>>which is where Entourage gets its scheme. The same people who wrote Emailer
>>wrote Entourage and OE.
>
>   As I mentioned, I'm a long time Eudora user; I'd never trust my
>personal data to the clowns in redmond (personal agitation), and I
>too have 5 digits worth of emails, but who's counting.  So yes, I
>learned of the corrupt database problems from others who have posted
>on lists and newsgroups.  Why do you find it acceptable to have to
>routinely rebuild a bloated database file?  I don't see why I should
>have to put up with that nonsense.  It just seems illogical to put
>all of your eggs in one bloated basket.  I've used Lookout, Lookout
>Express and Entrailage and they have nice UIs I suppose, but the data
>storage "scheme" is not simple enough.
>
>I've worked in the software industry in Seattle as a test engineer
>and systems analyst so I do have some experience with most email
>apps.  For IMAP, Netscape is better than Eudora, but I am talking
>about POP3 since that is what I use at home.  At work we use Netscape
>Messenger on XP, NT, 95 and OS/2 boxes and it seems to work well
>enough.  But Eudora's filtering is far superior to Netscape's, and
>that is another reason I've stuck with Eudora.   I like Powermail's
>UI and filtering the best, and would switch to it in a flash, but no
>way am I using an app that puts my mail in a "database" file.
>
>Mozilla?  Yeah, it's the best browser I've ever used.  I've trashed
>Omniweb, IE, Netscape, Opera and iCab since Mozilla got stable enough
>to use.  But I don't have a need for Mozilla mail.
>
>Eudora stores my email in plain text files, easily backed up, easily
>moved and easily read with TextEdit.  Simple and elegant, no rebuilds
>necessary and no un-sightly bloating.  It's a design that I
>appreciate more and more with each passing, trouble and
>maintenance-free year.
>
>Ross Cottrell

One of the reason that so many different email applications exist, is 
that there are so many different levels of email needs. Some people 
need quick and dirty, some others may need a comfortable GUI. Others 
need feature "X" or "Y" and that limits the scope of programs that 
they can utilize.

For example: I used Eudora for nearly 7 years because it was 
lightweight, quick, and responsive on the Centris 650. When someone 
else got the computer, they were willing to bear the long wait for 
Netscape to do the same things because they needed a more friendly 
GUI. With my Wallstreet [affectionately, "True Love"], I used OE for 
4 years because it was free, ad free, and would pull down stuff from 
Hotmail [with full knowledge of the corruption problems]. After the 
divorce [er, I mean, when I had to sell my True Love], I have tried 
several different programs for my TiBook 800. I have finally settled 
back on Eudora for the simple reason that I currently need a high 
level of encryption and it fits the bill. Other programs support SSL, 
but for one reason or another will not work in my current set-up 
[behind a MS ISA server], OS 9 [X won't connect through the ISA 
proxy], SSL and certificates.

Here is a sad reminder of how much Mac users still often face 2nd 
class netizenship, from a FAQ for Mac users of securenym.net secure 
email servers:
>Microsoft has managed to short-change users with Outlook Express for 
>the Mac. All versions after v4.5 fail to provide support for SSL and 
>Authentication, both of which are necessary for secure messaging. 
>Further, the latest versions even fail to support personal 
>certificates for S/MIME. Microsoft demonstrates a total lack of 
>concern for Mac users regarding these issues. Microsoft states that, 
>even though their Windows clients continue to provide support for 
>SSL and Authentication, their attention was focused upon other, more 
>pressing, areas.
>
>Entourage is nothing more than a bad port of Outlook to the Mac 
>platform, and also lacks support for SSL and Authentication. If you 
>haven't upgraded to Outlook 5+ or Entourage, please don't. If you 
>already have, or do so in the future, you will NOT be able to access 
>your SecureNym mail.
>
>Eudora 5.1 has been an option for Mac users, but recently announced 
>security vulnerabilities in openSSL necessitated changes in SSL. 
>This has created timeout problems for Eudora users, regardless of 
>platform. Eudora will work, but not with

Re: [PB]Entourage

[Ross Cottrell]

>Just a question. Is this "easily corrupted" in your own experience, or via
>word-of-mouth from others? I've been using Entourage for about a year and a
>half, and I've never lost and email, and any "corruption" I've had was
>easily fixed with a database rebuild. I haven't counted recently, but I have
>well within 5 digits of email in all my trays combinde. (well over 10,000
>emails). I've never had a corrupted database--only bloated. I've certainly
>never been forced to rebuild the database because I was unable to open it,
>and I've never lost an email.
>
>For the record, Claris Emailer 2 also used the single database approach,
>which is where Entourage gets its scheme. The same people who wrote Emailer
>wrote Entourage and OE.

  As I mentioned, I'm a long time Eudora user; I'd never trust my 
personal data to the clowns in redmond (personal agitation), and I 
too have 5 digits worth of emails, but who's counting.  So yes, I 
learned of the corrupt database problems from others who have posted 
on lists and newsgroups.  Why do you find it acceptable to have to 
routinely rebuild a bloated database file?  I don't see why I should 
have to put up with that nonsense.  It just seems illogical to put 
all of your eggs in one bloated basket.  I've used Lookout, Lookout 
Express and Entrailage and they have nice UIs I suppose, but the data 
storage "scheme" is not simple enough.

And yes, I know that the lead Emailer developer now works for the 
evil empire, that's common knowledge.  I never liked Emailer much 
either.

I've worked in the software industry in Seattle as a test engineer 
and systems analyst so I do have some experience with most email 
apps.  For IMAP, Netscape is better than Eudora, but I am talking 
about POP3 since that is what I use at home.  At work we use Netscape 
Messenger on XP, NT, 95 and OS/2 boxes and it seems to work well 
enough.  But Eudora's filtering is far superior to Netscape's, and 
that is another reason I've stuck with Eudora.   I like Powermail's 
UI and filtering the best, and would switch to it in a flash, but no 
way am I using an app that puts my mail in a "database" file.

Mozilla?  Yeah, it's the best browser I've ever used.  I've trashed 
Omniweb, IE, Netscape, Opera and iCab since Mozilla got stable enough 
to use.  But I don't have a need for Mozilla mail.

Eudora stores my email in plain text files, easily backed up, easily 
moved and easily read with TextEdit.  Simple and elegant, no rebuilds 
necessary and no un-sightly bloating.  It's a design that I 
appreciate more and more with each passing, trouble and 
maintenance-free year.

Ross Cottrell

"Windows is like a Mac in the same way that a transvestite is like a 
real woman. It's 95 percent the same, and actually what some people 
would prefer, but not really the same for those who care about small 
differences." - John Dvorak

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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Mick Ring]

on 9/19/02 11:11, Mark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> I really wish MS had decided to make Outlook OSX compatible.

Or offered Entourage inexpensively.

-Mick
-- 



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Re: Missing "Send" button in Mail [was:[PB]Entourage]

[John Koen]

On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 04:23  PM, Greg Gilmore wrote:

> I cannot, try as I might, get the silly
> Mail program to send mail, though it will receive. The outbox doesn't 
> even
> have a send button.

This is pretty strange. I no longer have 10.1.4, or even 10.1.5, but 
the settings were only slightly different than 10.2.

There isn't a send button in the main window unless you customize the 
"toolbar" (control-click on the place where it says things like 
"delete reply   reply all   forward" etc.). Whatever buttons you have in 
this toolbar for the main viewer window will be the same in the inbox, 
outbox, drafts, on my computer, or whatever.

After you click "Compose" new mail (if you can't find it, it's  also 
the first item under the "File" menu at the top), you will be in a new 
message window, with spots for addresses, subject, and body of the 
message. There is a "Send" button by default in this window. If there 
isn't, you can add one by control-clicking the "toolbar" to customize 
it.

> Have tried reinstalling the OS (10.1.4),

I'm curious why you aren't updated to 10.1.5, but I seem some people 
feeling that one of the updates was slower than the previous one. I had 
no problems, speed or otherwise with 10.1.5 when I was using it. If 
Mail is actually messed up, however, I don't think installing an update 
will fix it.

> have repeatedly
> checked all configurations.

I'm assuming that you entered the correct settings under 
Preferences->Accounts->Edit. SMTP settings are the ones involved in 
sending mail ("outgoing"). If it receives, you have the correct 
incoming (POP3 or IMAP) settings.

-- 
One standard to rule them all, one standard to find them,
One standard to bring them all, and in darkness bind them.
In the land of Microsoft, where Shadows lie.


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Bruce Johnson]

Greg Gilmore wrote:

> On my daughter's fairly new iBook, I cannot, try as I might, get the silly
> Mail program to send mail, though it will receive. The outbox doesn't even
> have a send button. Have tried reinstalling the OS (10.1.4), have repeatedly
> checked all configurations.

Not sending mail is invariably a problem with the SMTP settings. Make 
sure they're set correctly (check with your ISP if you have any questions.)





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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Laurent Daudelin]

On 19/09/02 16:23, "Greg Gilmore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> About the database corruption, I think it also has to do with Outlook
>> Express. Many people use Outlook Express, and it actually is easily
>> corrupted
> 
> Been following this thread with some interest--using 2 different email
> programs on 3 different computers, and am increasingly frustrated with both:
> 
> OE on my wife's Lombard and on my TiBook: every time I try, on either
> computer, to export contacts, so's I can download them to my Palm, which is
> the purpose for which I primarily bought it, OE quits and leaves a document
> on the desktop with a few addresses it. The strange thing is that some of
> the addresses are ones I deleted from my address book years ago! I've
> probably installed something incorrectly or not uninstalled something
> correctly, an obviously the TiBook has inherited whatever I messed up on the
> Lombard.
> 
> On my daughter's fairly new iBook, I cannot, try as I might, get the silly
> Mail program to send mail, though it will receive. The outbox doesn't even
> have a send button. Have tried reinstalling the OS (10.1.4), have repeatedly
> checked all configurations.
> 
> Any pointers in the right direction for either problem will garner my
> immense appreciation.

In my case, I've never been able to import any message from Entourage 2001
to Entourage v.X!!! Everytime I tried, it would choke on something and would
just exit. Talk about loosy programming. I'm still using Entourage v.X, but
I'm not that crazy about it.

I also had a corruption problem with Entourage 2001 where when browsing some
messages, the text and/or internet headers of other messages were showing in
the body text. I had to get rid of some messages and do several rebuilds to
get it in order.

-Laurent.
-- 
===
Laurent DaudelinDeveloper, Multifamily, ESO, Fannie Mae
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Washington, DC, USA
* Usual disclaimers apply *



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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Greg Gilmore]

> About the database corruption, I think it also has to do with Outlook
> Express. Many people use Outlook Express, and it actually is easily
> corrupted

Been following this thread with some interest--using 2 different email
programs on 3 different computers, and am increasingly frustrated with both:

OE on my wife's Lombard and on my TiBook: every time I try, on either
computer, to export contacts, so's I can download them to my Palm, which is
the purpose for which I primarily bought it, OE quits and leaves a document
on the desktop with a few addresses it. The strange thing is that some of
the addresses are ones I deleted from my address book years ago! I've
probably installed something incorrectly or not uninstalled something
correctly, an obviously the TiBook has inherited whatever I messed up on the
Lombard.

On my daughter's fairly new iBook, I cannot, try as I might, get the silly
Mail program to send mail, though it will receive. The outbox doesn't even
have a send button. Have tried reinstalling the OS (10.1.4), have repeatedly
checked all configurations.

Any pointers in the right direction for either problem will garner my
immense appreciation.



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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Mark]

Luca Rescigno on 9/19/02 9:21 AM wrote:

> About the database corruption, I think it also has to do with Outlook
> Express. Many people use Outlook Express, and it actually is easily
> corrupted. I've heard a few people reporting the same problem I had -
> on startup, a dialog box pops up saying "The end of file was reached."
> There is no explanation given, it's absolutely impossible to get into
> the program, and reinstalling it doesn't help. It might possibly work
> if you reformat and reinstall the system, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Since Entourage looks a lot like OE and since they're both by MS, I can
> see why there would be some confusion. I haven't used Entourage so I
> don't know what it's like.

I've been using Outlook Express since v.3 and have yet to lose any data.
I've rebuilt the data base every few months as it get a bit bloated but have
not had a serious problem in the several years I've used it. And I know I
push it's limits with all my folders and subfolders. I track 11 email
addresses and I'm currently storing 17,465 messages (and I just recently
purged about 4000 old messages). I love that my Rules can redirect mail from
all my mail lists and clients, to their designated folders.

I'm also smart enough to do a regular backup of the Identities folder which
stores my database, because no program is perfect and I'm sure that one day
I will loose everything. But I haven't yet needed to call on one of these
backups.

I'm on the fence right now about switching to Apple's Mail because OE5 is
really the only application I currently run in classic and I'm not willing
to spring for a full version of Office X just to get Entourage.

I really wish MS had decided to make Outlook OSX compatible.

-Mark


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Luca Rescigno]

About the database corruption, I think it also has to do with Outlook 
Express. Many people use Outlook Express, and it actually is easily 
corrupted. I've heard a few people reporting the same problem I had - 
on startup, a dialog box pops up saying "The end of file was reached." 
There is no explanation given, it's absolutely impossible to get into 
the program, and reinstalling it doesn't help. It might possibly work 
if you reformat and reinstall the system, but I'm not sure.

Since Entourage looks a lot like OE and since they're both by MS, I can 
see why there would be some confusion. I haven't used Entourage so I 
don't know what it's like.


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Walter R Basil]

On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 01:10  AM, Jon Glass wrote:

> Just a question. Is this "easily corrupted" in your own experience, or 
> via
> word-of-mouth from others? I've been using Entourage for about a year 
> and a
> half, and I've never lost and email, and any "corruption" I've had was
> easily fixed with a database rebuild. I haven't counted recently, but 
> I have
> well within 5 digits of email in all my trays combinde. (well over 
> 10,000
> emails). I've never had a corrupted database--only bloated. I've 
> certainly
> never been forced to rebuild the database because I was unable to open 
> it,
> and I've never lost an email.
>
I think it was a word of mouth type mixed with some personal agitation 
against MS. I have used Entourage since it was initially released, and 
I have never had a corrupt database. I rebuilt my database once a month 
for maintenance. My wife has never rebuilt her database, and she has no 
problems either.

The old version of it had a 2 Gig size limit, at which point it would 
be un-usable (and it has now been changed to 4 Gig). I have known a 
couple people via the newsgroups that have encountered this limit, but 
I have never come close. Those people who did encounter it had imported 
OE5 or some other mail database that had been used for the last 5 or 6 
years. The largest my database ever had been was about 120 Megs, and 
was back to 60 or so after the database was rebuilt. I normally have 
about 1000 emails, including saved, new, and deleted items.

Peace,

Walt


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Jon Glass]

on 9/18/02 10:56 PM, ross cottrell at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Of course, I don't use Entrailage, which is bloated and stores all of your
> mail on one database file, which is easily corrupted.  Powermail does the same
> thing- dumb.  

Just a question. Is this "easily corrupted" in your own experience, or via
word-of-mouth from others? I've been using Entourage for about a year and a
half, and I've never lost and email, and any "corruption" I've had was
easily fixed with a database rebuild. I haven't counted recently, but I have
well within 5 digits of email in all my trays combinde. (well over 10,000
emails). I've never had a corrupted database--only bloated. I've certainly
never been forced to rebuild the database because I was unable to open it,
and I've never lost an email.

For the record, Claris Emailer 2 also used the single database approach,
which is where Entourage gets its scheme. The same people who wrote Emailer
wrote Entourage and OE.
-- 
-Jon Glass
Krakow, Poland
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a
reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the
very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for
independence." -- C. A. Beard



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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Obi-Wan]

On 9/18/02 1:56 PM, "ross cottrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Broadcast
into the ether:
> Of course, I don't use Entrailage, which is bloated and stores all of your
> mail on one database file, which is easily corrupted.  Powermail does the same
> thing- dumb.  
> 
> I've used Eudora for years and never lost a single byte after transfering
> mailbox files from one hard drive to another several times over the years.  It
> never crashes.  It may not be the most user friendly, but it is the most
> reliable email client ever made, IMHO.  I gladly paid the $40 to register it.

And as a tech that has serviced thousands of machines, I assure you that
Eudora is not AT ALL trouble free.  I can't COUNT how many times I have had
a client problem ith Eudora.  That's why I went with Entourage.

-- 
==
Kyle H. Hansen
Apple Certified Technician
Apple Solution Expert
Macintosh Server Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==




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Re: [PB]Entourage

[ross cottrell]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 08:27  PM, Marty Lindower wrote:

 > Speaking of which, if I try to sync my Handspring Deluxe with=20
> Entourage,
>>

> make this
> work? (OS 10.1.5)
>

>The problem lies not with the Entourage Conduit, >but with the Palm=20
>Desktop 4. That is only supported with "real" >Palm branded palm=20
>devices. There is a work around, but not having a >Handspring, I don't=20
>remember what it was.

I've been syncing my Visor Plat with Palm DT4 on OSX for a couple of months
now.  It is slow, but it works.  Handspring does not support this, but that
doesn't mean it doesn't work.  Sometimes it is so slow that I have to kill it
though.

 Of course, I don't use Entrailage, which is bloated and stores all of your
mail on one database file, which is easily corrupted.  Powermail does the same
thing- dumb.  

I've used Eudora for years and never lost a single byte after transfering
mailbox files from one hard drive to another several times over the years.  It
never crashes.  It may not be the most user friendly, but it is the most
reliable email client ever made, IMHO.  I gladly paid the $40 to register it. 

Palm desktop sucks, but it works, and I've never lost data with it either. 
Anyway, just ranting I guess.  Can't wait for iSync and a usable iCal build.

Ross 



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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Joe Ellis]

Actually; after some rather painful fits and starts I have been able to sync
my m505 with Entourage on both my laptop and my desktop machine. Used
Bluetooth on the laptop, cradle on the DP. Most of my problems were self
induced and the syncs work fine.

Joe Ellis
Electric Boat Corp.
___

"If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" - Will
Rogers



- Original Message -
From: "Marty Lindower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "G-Books" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PB]Entourage


> On 9/16/02 10:54 PM, "Matthew B. Dwyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Speaking of which, if I try to sync my Handspring Deluxe with Entourage,
> Hotsync quits shortly after starting up. I recall reading that you had to
> have a real Palm© handheld for the conduit to work. Anyone able to make
this
> work? (OS 10.1.5)
>
> --
> Marty Lindower
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Red meat isn't that bad for you;
> It's the green fuzzy meat to watch out for.
>



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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Anne Judge]

Donald Keenan wrote:
> . . . The new MacWorld reviews 
> the top mail programs and Entourage ranks very high in their estimation.
> Mail (OS X) doesn't.

But I believe they reviewed the pre-Jaguar Mail.app - can anyone 
confirm that?

If so, would the upgrade have increased their opinion of Mail.app?

Anne


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Donald Keenan]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but the new MacWorld reviews 
the top mail programs and Entourage ranks very high in their estimation.
Mail (OS X) doesn't. I have Entourage because I Office v.Mac, but I 
found it too cluttered and all the symbols and text seemed so small on 
my Pismo's screen that i never gave it a try. I have to say that it has 
that colorful OS X look.
Donald
On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 10:27 PM, Marty Lindower wrote:

>> I agree with Joe in his comments about Entourage. Also I love it's 
>> seamless
>> integration between address book, email client, calendar, and Synching 
>> to my
>> Visor.
>
> Speaking of which, if I try to sync my Handspring Deluxe with Entourage,
> Hotsync quits shortly after starting up. I recall reading that you had 
> to
> have a real Palm© handheld for the conduit to work. Anyone able to make 
> this
> work? (OS 10.1.5)
>


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Walter R Basil]

On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 08:27  PM, Marty Lindower wrote:

> Speaking of which, if I try to sync my Handspring Deluxe with 
> Entourage,
> Hotsync quits shortly after starting up. I recall reading that you had 
> to
> have a real Palm© handheld for the conduit to work. Anyone able to 
> make this
> work? (OS 10.1.5)
>

The problem lies not with the Entourage Conduit, but with the Palm 
Desktop 4. That is only supported with "real" Palm branded palm 
devices. There is a work around, but not having a Handspring, I don't 
remember what it was.

Walt

---
Palm m515, iBook DVD 500, 640 Megs RAM,
Mac OS X 10.2, MS Office v.X SR1


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Re: [PB]Entourage

[Marty Lindower]

On 9/16/02 10:54 PM, "Matthew B. Dwyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I agree with Joe in his comments about Entourage. Also I love it's seamless
> integration between address book, email client, calendar, and Synching to my
> Visor. 

Speaking of which, if I try to sync my Handspring Deluxe with Entourage,
Hotsync quits shortly after starting up. I recall reading that you had to
have a real Palm© handheld for the conduit to work. Anyone able to make this
work? (OS 10.1.5)

-- 
Marty Lindower
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Red meat isn't that bad for you;
It's the green fuzzy meat to watch out for.


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