Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
At 10:21 PM -0600 10/23/2004, Bob wrote: Under the best of circumstances, drag-and-drop is the weakest method of making a duplicate copy. The biggest danger is missing invisible files that often don't get copied by this method. Exactly what important invisible files get missed? (n/m; see below) IF the Lombard is running OS X, then turn on File Sharing on the Lombard, mount its HD on the eMac and copy files from there. Copy how? Surely you aren't recommending drag-and-drop copying to duplicate an OS X volume. Simply copying files to a backup device won't get the invisible files that are at root level of the disk's directory structure. (It will get invisibles that are inside folders.) Worked for me, Lombard (OS 9 and Jaguar) to our new PB (Panther). The system files you simply don't want. The only things of interest to copy out are visible so they copy perfectly well with a simple drag'n'drop... Numerous invisibles that reside at root level of the disk are ... -- System files, like boot blocks and other disk data, like drivers, etc.; Lombard vs eMac. You can't use the boot blocks. And the eMac has its own drivers. -- some caches and other files associated with various software; Caches, by definition, should never be copied. Other files? -- Desktop Folders for the disk which carry the Finder's icon and file placement information (not the disk directory); Are best recreated fresh. -- disk directory information that says where every bit and byte is physically on the disk; You're moving the data to a new drive, so this information is moot. -- some key code and serial number and validation files for some programs. Most apps will reask for their s/n even if you copy their prefs files over. The ones that don't probably need to be installed on the new machine properly anyway. I've been tod that there are approximately 120,000 files installed with OS X (complete install I assume). I've never tried to count them, so I'm going to take this at face value. That's an enormous amount of files to be dragging-and dropping. The new eMac comes with its own operating system. We're talking about copying USER data here, and maybe a few apps. - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
The National Enquirer reports at 1:44 AM -0400 10/24/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 10:21 PM -0600 10/23/2004, Bob wrote: IF the Lombard is running OS X, then turn on File Sharing on the Lombard, mount its HD on the eMac and copy files from there. Copy how? Surely you aren't recommending drag-and-drop copying to duplicate an OS X volume. Simply copying files to a backup device won't get the invisible files that are at root level of the disk's directory structure. (It will get invisibles that are inside folders.) Worked for me, Lombard (OS 9 and Jaguar) to our new PB (Panther). The system files you simply don't want. The only things of interest to copy out are visible so they copy perfectly well with a simple drag'n'drop... If only visible files are needed, I agree with you. I thought Vicki was wanting to move everything from the Lombard to the eMac. Numerous invisibles that reside at root level of the disk are ... -- System files, like boot blocks and other disk data, like drivers, etc.; Lombard vs eMac. You can't use the boot blocks. And the eMac has its own drivers. These were general comments, not specifically directed toward an eMac. -- some caches and other files associated with various software; Caches, by definition, should never be copied. Not sure I agree with you there. But it may depend on the precise cache file(s). Other files? The whole area is moot, as you say below, since the all my files has been clarified to mean only data files. -- Desktop Folders for the disk which carry the Finder's icon and file placement information (not the disk directory); Are best recreated fresh. Maybe for you, but not necessarily my approach. -- disk directory information that says where every bit and byte is physically on the disk; You're moving the data to a new drive, so this information is moot. Agreed under the new clarification. -- some key code and serial number and validation files for some programs. Most apps will reask for their s/n even if you copy their prefs files over. Preference files don't necessarily contain registration information. I haven't had occasion to check in OS X, but in past years that information has often been located in invisible files. The ones that don't probably need to be installed on the new machine properly anyway. I don't reinstall anything unless I have to. Maybe it's a long-time hold0ver from the early Mac days. Remember when you had to hand feed 10-15 floppy disks just to install Microsoft Excel? :-) I go with the the easiest (but workable) option. For example, I have *never* done a clean install, or System re-install for that matter. I've been tod that there are approximately 120,000 files installed with OS X (complete install I assume). I've never tried to count them, so I'm going to take this at face value. That's an enormous amount of files to be dragging-and dropping. The new eMac comes with its own operating system. We're talking about copying USER data here, and maybe a few apps. My current mantra: the more information given, the easier it's understood and the better the advice should be. :-) OTOH you can't completely discount senior moments and dropped brain-bits. LOL Cheers, Bob -- If replying privately, please include my name in the To: address, so that my filters won't send your reply to the trash. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
At 12:50 AM -0600 10/24/2004, Bob wrote: -- some caches and other files associated with various software; Caches, by definition, should never be copied. Not sure I agree with you there. But it may depend on the precise cache file(s). hum. What caches are you thinking of? -- some key code and serial number and validation files for some programs. Most apps will reask for their s/n even if you copy their prefs files over. Preference files don't necessarily contain registration information. I haven't had occasion to check in OS X, but in past years that information has often been located in invisible files. Well, that got me curious, so I ran some searches on my Macs here. There be invisible file system databases, some scratch files, virtual memory paging files, and custom icon files. The former aren't useful and the last gets copied automatically when you drag the folder. AppleTalk has a database of folder permissions, but they die when you copy them to a different drive. Interarchy keeps a hidden prefs file - looks like a backup of the visible one. Virtual keeps a hidden registration file - that dies when you copy it. That's all I've got. I know this is moot for this main subject of this thread. But I think this is important. Do you have any specific invisible files in mind, beyond the above? The ones that don't probably need to be installed on the new machine properly anyway. I don't reinstall anything unless I have to. Maybe it's a long-time hold0ver from the early Mac days. Remember when you had to hand feed 10-15 floppy disks just to install Microsoft Excel? :-) I go with the the easiest (but workable) option. For example, I have *never* done a clean install, or System re-install for that matter. hum. Some apps I do tend to just copy, along with their Prefs files. TurboTax, games, etc. But some apps it really does pay to do an actual install. That way their installer script gets the chance to hand you the pieces apropos to your new computer - AppleWorks for example. As for the OS itself... I've never done a reinstall either. But I do try to do a clean install for major OS releases (7-8, 8-9). I do this just because it gives me a chance to clean things up, get rid of the dead wood. Actually, I don't do just a clean install. It's a clean custom install for All Macs. In the custom settings I turn on a lot of the optional items and turn off all the MS crud. That creates a master System Folder. I drag a copy of that to a ZIP disk and that disk can boot every Mac I've got (+/- OS vers issues). The new eMac comes with its own operating system. We're talking about copying USER data here, and maybe a few apps. My current mantra: the more information given, the easier it's understood and the better the advice should be. :-) OTOH you can't completely discount senior moments and dropped brain-bits. LOL Your assumption was reasonable. And you've brought up some valid points. heh. Ended up going back to my old PB's HD last night to retrieve some fonts... - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC
From: victoria Duggan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Firstly, when changing the subject in the middle of a thread, make an effort to change the subject line... --- i will need to back up all the info off of my Lombard to the Emac. what will be the quickest way ?. what will be the safest?. If it had been a Pismo I would have said FW target mode, but the Lombard only has USB, so I'd say Ethernet without a doubt. Larry _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC
I, too recommend Ethernet. I just dumped my iBook's hard drive (what's left of it) on to my PC via Ethernet this morning. It takes about 3 or so minutes per gigabyte (I'm not even going to go into the abbreviation discussion). - Original Message - From: Larry le Mac [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: G-Books [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 4:19 PM Subject: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC From: victoria Duggan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Firstly, when changing the subject in the middle of a thread, make an effort to change the subject line... --- i will need to back up all the info off of my Lombard to the Emac. what will be the quickest way ?. what will be the safest?. If it had been a Pismo I would have said FW target mode, but the Lombard only has USB, so I'd say Ethernet without a doubt. Larry _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com --- -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC
At 11:19 PM +0200 10/23/2004, Larry le Mac wrote: From: victoria Duggan [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will need to back up all the info off of my Lombard to the Emac. what will be the quickest way ?. what will be the safest?. If it had been a Pismo I would have said FW target mode, but the Lombard only has USB, so I'd say Ethernet without a doubt. Exactly. Bring up AppleTalk between the two computers and use the built-in File Sharing. IF the Lombard is running OS 7/8/9, then turn on File Sharing on the eMac. Mount the eMac's HD on the Lombard then copy what you need to the eMac drive. IF the Lombard is running OS X, then turn on File Sharing on the Lombard, mount its HD on the eMac and copy files from there. ...The trick is that OS 7/8/9 limits the speed of File Sharing to 50% of your CPU. So if you use the Lombard as the file server, it will be slower. But if you use the Lombard to drive the copy -- with the Finder in the foreground, it will be faster! :) OS X does not have this problem. I also recommend copying the files in chunks, a few folders at a time. Don't just drag the whole HD icon over. AppleTalk can be a bit twitchy; if something dies, it's easier to figure out whats partial and delete a bit than to have to delete everything and loose all that time. FWIW, - Dan. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
The National Enquirer reports at 6:38 PM -0400 10/23/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:19 PM +0200 10/23/2004, Larry le Mac wrote: From: victoria Duggan [EMAIL PROTECTED] i will need to back up all the info off of my Lombard to the Emac. what will be the quickest way ?. what will be the safest?. If it had been a Pismo I would have said FW target mode, but the Lombard only has USB, so I'd say Ethernet without a doubt. Exactly. My turn to disagree. :-) Bring up AppleTalk between the two computers and use the built-in File Sharing. IF the Lombard is running OS 7/8/9, then turn on File Sharing on the eMac. Mount the eMac's HD on the Lombard then copy what you need to the eMac drive. Under the best of circumstances, drag-and-drop is the weakest method of making a duplicate copy. The biggest danger is missing invisible files that often don't get copied by this method. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Just remember there might be unexpected results. IMO drsag-and-drop works better when moving specific folders rather than trying to duplicate an entire device. IF the Lombard is running OS X, then turn on File Sharing on the Lombard, mount its HD on the eMac and copy files from there. Copy how? Surely you aren't recommending drag-and-drop copying to duplicate an OS X volume. Simply copying files to a backup device won't get the invisible files that are at root level of the disk's directory structure. (It will get invisibles that are inside folders.) Numerous invisibles that reside at root level of the disk are ... -- System files, like boot blocks and other disk data, like drivers, etc.; -- some caches and other files associated with various software; -- Desktop Folders for the disk which carry the Finder's icon and file placement information (not the disk directory); -- disk directory information that says where every bit and byte is physically on the disk; -- some key code and serial number and validation files for some programs. I've been tod that there are approximately 120,000 files installed with OS X (complete install I assume). I've never tried to count them, so I'm going to take this at face value. That's an enormous amount of files to be dragging-and dropping. The most effective way to copy *all* of your files (again IMHO) would be to use a backup application that can make an exact duplicate. Carbon Copy Cloner is one that is most often recommended. As I recall, it uses FireWire. Would it work with a non-native FW unit using a FW PCMCISA card (for PB) or PCI FW card (desktop)? If so, that would be my first choice. (FW PCMCIA cards are fairly cheap these days and needed with the early G3 PowerBooks for external backup drives.) The full copy of Retrospect (not Express) is another backup application that will accomplish the OP's desired goal, though it is not cheap by any means. There are others available as well. Just my $.02 worth, Bob -- If replying privately, please include my name in the To: address, so that my filters won't send your reply to the trash. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
Hi when i say copy i mean all the files that i need to keep like smi folder's and work files in appleworks 6 and my itunes files as i do not want to have to down load them again. They are not system folders or the like but there is a lot of different installers for bits that i am working on, and i am going to make the Emac the main house mac . vicki -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
Re: Lombard - eMac (was Mac vs. MAC)
The National Enquirer reports at 6:49 AM + 10/24/04, victoria Duggan wrote: Hi when i say copy i mean all the files that i need to keep like smi folder's and work files in appleworks 6 and my itunes files as i do not want to have to down load them again. They are not system folders or the like but there is a lot of different installers for bits that i am working on, and i am going to make the Emac the main house mac . I obvious misunderstood you. All your files meant all your files to me. From you what say above, the advice given, to use Ethernet and drag-and-drop should do the trick. Bob -- If replying privately, please include my name in the To: address, so that my filters won't send your reply to the trash. -- G-Books is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Refurbished Drives | -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks | CDRWs on Sale! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html G-Books list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-books.html -- AOL users, remove mailto:; Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/g-books%40mail.maclaunch.com/ --- The Think Different Store http://www.ThinkDifferentStore.com ---
