Re: Digital camera... or not

[Dan Knight]

On 3/31/03 3:57 PM, bramke posted:

>I want to introduce myself into the world of digital photos, mainly
>family snapshots for screen and webuse 
>I have a 8600/G3 with all PCIslots filled, and no USB available, and a
>Powerbook G3 Kanga (not cardbus compliant)

>So what are my options ???
>
>The only option I can come up with is the use of a PCMCIA adaptor for
>CompactFlash cards (or other memory cards) but I have some questions with
>this :
>* Pro/con of this route ??

Pro: If you go with Compact Flash, it's cheap and fast. About $12.95 for 
the PC Card adapter. Avoid Smart Media at all costs -- PC Card adapter is 
vastly more expensive.

It's also very, very fast.

>* Is this possible in the 16bit PCMCIA slots of the Kanga ??

Should be, since these are standard PC Cards, not CardBus devices.

>* Do I need special software to read the cards, or do they just show up
>on the desktop like a CD ??

Should show up right on the desktop. That's the way it worked in my 
TiBook and my wife's old WallStreet. May depend on what version of the 
Mac OS you're using though.

>* Can I write to the CFcards (backup, I've read of booting from them,
>what about formatting them) ??

Definitely. I use an old 8 MB card that's been formatted HFS+ to move 
files. Remember that if you format the card in your Mac, you will have to 
reformat it in the camera before you can use it in the camera. I don't 
suggest formatting a CF card on the Mac unless you plan to use it only 
for computer purposes.

>* What's the maximum size of CFcard the Kanga can handle (I've read about
>type I and II)??

4 GB, which costs a lot more ($1500) than your Kanga is worth. ;-)

>* Difference between CF and the others (Smartmedia,...) which seem to
>require more expensive adaptors, any preferences ??

CF is highest capacity and has been available for ages, is supported by 
more cameras than any other format, and costs less than newer media types 
(xD Picture, SD). SmartMedia and Memory Sticks are limited to 128 MB; CF, 
xD, and SD do not have this limitation.

>* Are there any other things to consider going this route ?? Or other
>possibilities (SCSI) ??

Have heard of SCSI adapters, but they are rare and costly. Without USB on 
either machine, a CF card for the PCMCIA slot in your Kanga is definitely 
your best bet.

For a good introduction to digital photography and choosing the right 
camera, head over to Low End Mac's sister site, digigraphica.com


-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

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Re: Digital camera...or not

[bramke]

Well,

thank you all for the great number of replies (already 3 digest went
through before I can answer)

Seems like going with the compactflash adaptor and a digital camera that
uses these cards is, in my case, the best way because :
* cheaper than a cardreader, if I can find a SCSI-one at all (no USB or
FireWire ports available on my Macs, and adaptor is cheaper than trading
in the Sonnet IDE card and getting a Trio IDE/USB/FireWire card).
* works with the Kanga, and Kanga is portable, just like the digital
camera is.
* no additional software nescessary (PC exchange comes with the OS).
* big CFcards available.
* faster transfer as through a cable.

and additional advantages :

* don't need to ditch the soundcard (Audiomedia III with ProTools, you'll
understand I do not want to let this one go) as someone suggested.
* extended batterylife for the camera, maybe also for the Kanga if it can
boot from a CFcard (as I've read somewhere)

Disadvantages :

* tied into an adaptor which can read only CF. (I can live with that,
it's not a major investment of money)
* tied into a single machine (in my possession) which can receive the
data from the camera (I can live with that, when Kanga would die, I'll
probably replace it with a Pismo, which has USB and PCMCIA reader, and
given time and money, the 8600 will be replaced by a G4/dual)

And for those wondering, I do not intend to stop using my 35mm camera,
it's just the conveniance of digital photography I'm after. I have a
ColorOne 600/27 scanner and a Epson photostylus 800 (not the most fancy
equipment ;-), so forget printouts, it's purely for digital use.
For the camera I'm looking at the Canon Powershoot range (A40/A60/IxusV2)
and the Pentax Optio230, they received good reviews, they look okay (=
like a normal compact camera), seem easy to use and take CF (type I)

I'll let you all know how things go when I've made the decision

thanks to all, Bramke

-- 
Bramke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Belgium 
(digest-mode)


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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Bruce Johnson]

Mark Kippert wrote:
> bramke on 3/31/03 2:57 PM wrote:
> 
> 
>>The only option I can come up with is the use of a PCMCIA adaptor for
>>CompactFlash cards (or other memory cards) but I have some questions with
>>this :
>>* Pro/con of this route ??
>>* Is this possible in the 16bit PCMCIA slots of the Kanga ??
>>* Do I need special software to read the cards, or do they just show up
>>on the desktop like a CD ??
> 
> 
> The PCMCIA adapter will work just fine on your Kanga. Up until I got my
> iBook, I was using one on a PB1400 and a Wallstreet G3. I also tried it in a
> PB3400 and a PB5300 which worked fine. Now I either use the USB cable, or a
> small USB adapter (to conserve the camera batteries).

The PCMCIA adapters are plain vanilla PCMCIA...the compact flash one I 
have works in my 540C just fine.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs




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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Clark Martin]

At 9:57 PM +0200 3/31/2003, bramke wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I want to introduce myself into the world of digital photos, mainly
>family snapshots for screen and webuse, but I have run into some
>problems. I need a way to get the digital pictures from the camera to the
>Mac, and this is where it seems to go wrong.
>I have a 8600/G3 with all PCIslots filled, and no USB available, and a
>Powerbook G3 Kanga (not cardbus compliant), and about all recent digital
>cameras talk USB...
>
>* I won't buy an other Mac, just for the sake of getting USB.
>* I'm not looking forward to the serial connection like the Quicktake
>camera family.
>* Getting the Kanga cardbus compliant is out of the question.
>So what are my options ???


Note, your Kanga may already be CardBus compliant.  Apparently the 
electronics are and the only question is the card cage.  Apparently 
some were shipped with CardBus card cages and will work as is.  The 
problem is that you won't know until you try it which means buy or 
borrowing a CardBus card.

>
>The only option I can come up with is the use of a PCMCIA adaptor for
>CompactFlash cards (or other memory cards) but I have some questions with
>this :
>* Pro/con of this route ??
>* Is this possible in the 16bit PCMCIA slots of the Kanga ??


I have both CompactFlash and SmartMedia adapters in use on my Kanga. 
I was on a three day camping / railfanning trip and at night I'd pop 
the SM card in and suck them all into the laptop.  About 200 pictures 
a night.

>* Do I need special software to read the cards, or do they just show up
>on the desktop like a CD ??


Only File Exchange or PC Exchange (depending on the OS version), it's 
part of the OS install.  This is needed as the cameras us PC disk 
formatting.

>* Can I write to the CFcards (backup, I've read of booting from them,
>what about formatting them) ??


To format them for Mac you have to turn off File Exchange or PC 
Exchange and restart.  Otherwise you don't have the Mac format option 
available.

>* What's the maximum size of CFcard the Kanga can handle (I've read about
>type I and II)??

It should handle any card out there.  The largest I've used is 64 Mb. 
Type I, II and III refer to the PC Card form factor, not CF.   The 
Kanga can use any of them but a Flash adapter is likely a Type II. 
There are different speeds of CF (and I think SM too) showing up now. 
If your camera can use the faster speed then it's a plus.  Otherwise 
it's not a lot of use.  The main advantage is the camera can shoot 
faster.



>* Difference between CF and the others (Smartmedia,...) which seem to
>require more expensive adaptors, any preferences ??


SM seems to be stalled at 128Mb although there have been persistent 
rumors of higher capacity "Real Soon" for a while.  Depending on your 
camera, 128Mb may be enough.  I get about 256 shots on a card with a 
2MP camera.  I've come close to filling one up in a day but never 
quite made it.  I would stick with CF or SM.  They have wider 
support.  I've used both and don't find any particular advantage of 
one over the other.  The only problem I've had is that SM cards are 
so small and thin that I have to be extra careful to avoid dropping 
it.  CF adapters are cheap as the CF card is basically a miniature PC 
Card.  SM takes some electronics to read the card so they are a 
little more expensive.  I would make the decision between CF and SM 
based on the features of the camera.

>* Are there any other things to consider going this route ?? Or other
>possibilities (SCSI) ??

There is a SCSI device for reading PC Cards and CF.  I don't know if 
it will do SM but it should.  Finding one is unlikely though.

>
>I would like some real world experience and hands-on knowledge. Does
>anybody use this route with digital cameras ??
>
>TIA, Bramke
>
>For completeness :
>8600/G3-450/928MBram/PCIvideo/PCIsound/PCI-IDE cards
>PB G3-250 Kanga/160MBram
>All OS 9.1

I use both a 7500 w/ USB and CF/SM reader and my Kanga w/ PC Card 
adapter for reading flash memory.  At home I use the 7500 usually as 
it has a 100BaseT connection to the server where the picture files 
are archived.  On the road I use the Kanga.

When I first bought the camera it came with an 8Mb card and I bought 
the 128Mb card knowing I'd be needing the space.  The whole 
arrangement works quite well.  As I said, I've never managed to use 
up the whole 128Mb card in a single day.  So downloading the pictures 
daily takes care of things quite well.  There are only two times I've 
filled up the card.  When I first bought the camera the card reader 
didn't arrive for a week and Thanksgiving and other pictures filled 
it up.  The other time we were on vacation,  I hadn't downloaded the 
pictures and didn't realize it until Iwas away from the car and the 
laptop.  Actually in that case I don't think I filled it up but it 
did inhibit me from taking as many pictures as I might have.

That is one thing, I am taking about four times as many pictures with 
the digita

Re: Digital camera... or not

[Christopher D Helmkamp]

On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 02:57  PM, bramke wrote:

> For completeness :
> 8600/G3-450/928MBram/PCIvideo/PCIsound/PCI-IDE cards
> PB G3-250 Kanga/160MBram
> All OS 9.1

I would bite the bullet and get a combo IDE/USB/FW card like the Sonnet 
Tempo Trio.  Otherwise, I'd nix the sound.  USB is just too valuable 
these days to go without, especially if digital camera use is a 
priority for you.

--Chris
iBook 700 OS X.2.4
PM 7500/200 OS 9.1
PM 4400/200 OS 8.6, NetBSD


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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Mark Kippert]

bramke on 3/31/03 2:57 PM wrote:

> The only option I can come up with is the use of a PCMCIA adaptor for
> CompactFlash cards (or other memory cards) but I have some questions with
> this :
> * Pro/con of this route ??
> * Is this possible in the 16bit PCMCIA slots of the Kanga ??
> * Do I need special software to read the cards, or do they just show up
> on the desktop like a CD ??

The PCMCIA adapter will work just fine on your Kanga. Up until I got my
iBook, I was using one on a PB1400 and a Wallstreet G3. I also tried it in a
PB3400 and a PB5300 which worked fine. Now I either use the USB cable, or a
small USB adapter (to conserve the camera batteries).

No software or drivers required. It will appear just like a zip, CD etc.

> * Can I write to the CFcards (backup, I've read of booting from them,
> what about formatting them) ??

You can write to the various media (CF, SmartMedia, etc.) but I wouldn't
recommend reformatting them or you won't be able to use them with you camera
again, at least until you reformat it again in the camera.

> * What's the maximum size of CFcard the Kanga can handle (I've read about
> type I and II)??

The Compact Flash (CF) card only comes in one physical size, so that's a
moot point. You can get it in a number of different storage sizes though,
but even this does not matter as far as the Kanga being able to handle it.

BTW, the PCMCIA adapter (for CF or SmartMedia) is a type one card.

> * Difference between CF and the others (Smartmedia,...) which seem to
> require more expensive adaptors, any preferences ??

SmartMedia cards physically are much smaller than CF, but there really
should be little if any difference in the cost of a PCMCIA adapter. I bought
my adapter about 18 months ago for $15. I think I got it at Target. Just
shop around.  

The biggest difference I've seen is the capacity of CF vs. SmartMedia.
Because SmartMedia is so much smaller physically, the amount of storage is
also limited. The largest SmartMedia I've seen is 128MB, while CF is up to
1GB. Price wise they cost about the same per MB of storage. Check out
dealram.com for some price comparisons. Look under memory cards.

Right now I am using an Olympus Camedia C-2040 Zoom, 2.1 megapixel camera.
It's an older camera but I love the image quality and I especially love how
well it does in low light. I have two 64MB SmartMedia cards and so far
they've served me well, and I take a lot of pictures.

One of the best thing about digital is that you can take lots and lots of
pictures. This is especially nice when you shoot a bunch and then later go
through and pick out the best shots. On class trip to Washington DC last
year (I chaperoned my son's class) I shot almost 1300 pictures in 4 days. I
narrowed it down to about 350 images and was able to put together a terrific
slide show for the students using iPhoto, which I turned into a QuickTime
movie afterwards.

If you want a good source for reviews, check out dcresource.com, they have a
wide variety of 

-Mark


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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Pauline Turtle-Bear Guillermo]

On Monday, March 31, 2003, at 12:57  PM, bramke wrote:

> For completeness :
> 8600/G3-450/928MBram/PCIvideo/PCIsound/PCI-IDE cards

What's the sound card for?
My setup:
8600/G3 400/bunch o RAM/PCI video card/PCI-IDE card/PCI USB card

I have an older digital camera that was serial connection only (which 
really drains the batteries, so I have a USB smart card reader.

Turtle-Bear


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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Alan Miller]

bramke wrote:

> I would like some real world experience and hands-on knowledge. Does
> anybody use this route with digital cameras ??

My real world use of digital cameras is for listing eBay stuff and web
photos. For any quality. film's the way.

I have an older olympus D320L 1.3 mega pixel camera and transfer images via
a flash path floppy adapter. Most old macs have not problem with
floppies.. it's faster than serial, but not the most elegant. Works for
me.. and was cheap. I have to much $ in my other 10+ film cameras.

A nikon slide scanner is my solution for high quality digital images...
--
Alan Miller
Underwater Photographer
http://home.earthlink.net/~uwphoto/
9600/233 w/ G3/400 XLR8 ZIF, 1.5 G RAM
eBay ID  uwphotoer
Live each day like it is your last because someday you'll be right.



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Re: Digital camera... or not

[Kevin Stevens]

> I have a 8600/G3 with all PCIslots filled, and no USB available, and a
> Powerbook G3 Kanga (not cardbus compliant), and about all recent digital
> cameras talk USB...

Does the G3 have FireWire available?  There are FireWire readers for most
common media types, slightly more expensive than USB ones.

> The only option I can come up with is the use of a PCMCIA adaptor for
> CompactFlash cards (or other memory cards) but I have some questions
> with this :

That's a viable option, though those cards are generally more expensive.

> * Is this possible in the 16bit PCMCIA slots of the Kanga ??

I believe I've seen 16bit card readers.

> * Do I need special software to read the cards, or do they just show up
> on the desktop like a CD ??

I think you'd need drivers.  For USB this isn't an issue, as the card
readers use the USB Mass Storage spec which is supported on almost every
USB implementation, but there isn't an equivalent standard for PCMCIA.

> * Can I write to the CFcards (backup, I've read of booting from them,
> what about formatting them) ??

They're just media, like a solidstate floppy.  You can do anything your
system supports.

> * What's the maximum size of CFcard the Kanga can handle (I've read
> about type I and II)??

That's a physical/electrical spec, not a capacity one, BTW.

> * Difference between CF and the others (Smartmedia,...) which seem to
> require more expensive adaptors, any preferences ??

The readers are about the same price; indeed there are many
multiple-format readers out that handle the common formats.  It's usually
determined by what your camera of choice uses.

> * Are there any other things to consider going this route ?? Or other
> possibilities (SCSI) ??

I would go FireWire if possible as a more generic solution (if you have FW
ports available).

> I would like some real world experience and hands-on knowledge. Does
> anybody use this route with digital cameras ??

You haven't really defined your route.  If you're asking if people use
external readers instead of transferring directly from the camera; yes,
many people do this for a variety of reasons:  camera battery life, camera
protection against drops, faster transfer speeds, workflow integration,
etc.

KeS



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