Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[David Lesher]

> So to answer the OP's question, the printer is natively supported
> over an ethernet network, it just has to be via IP rather than
> AppleTalk. It doesn't need any third party software. All the ports
> can be active at the same time.

Sorry to disagree here but my LaserWriter 16/600 PS works just fine with
AppleTalk over Ethernet. I've never assigned it any IP address.



Appletalk don't need no steenking IP addresses... It's MAC {media 
access control} number based.


Apple was emulating Appletalk's "no config needed" with 
until-recently-called "Rendezvous"


AFP runs/ran over:

Localtalk
Appletalk over Ethernet
TCP/IP over Ethernet 



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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Laurent Daudelin]

on 18/06/05 20:16, Jeff Hubatka at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> If file sharing is an issue, I just wrote up some instructions a
> couple of days ago for the Powerbooks listYou can connect via IP
> from System 7 and 8 up to Tiger, but you can't connect down from
> Tiger to System 7 or 8 via AFP/AppleTalk.
> So to answer the OP's question, the printer is natively supported
> over an ethernet network, it just has to be via IP rather than
> AppleTalk. It doesn't need any third party software. All the ports
> can be active at the same time.

Sorry to disagree here but my LaserWriter 16/600 PS works just fine with
AppleTalk over Ethernet. I've never assigned it any IP address.

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin   AIM/iChat: LaurentDaudelin
Logiciels Nemesys Software   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Blue Screen of Death n.: [common] This term is closely related to the older
Black Screen of Death but much more common (many non-hackers have picked it
up). Due to the extreme fragility and bugginess of Microsoft Windows,
misbehaving applications can readily crash the OS (and the OS sometimes
crashes itself spontaneously). The Blue Screen of Death, sometimes decorated
with hex error codes, is what you get when this happens. (Commonly
abbreviated BSOD.) 



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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Jeff Hubatka]

On Jun 18, 2005, at 12:30 PM, G-Books wrote:


Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:00:55 -0400
From: Laurent Daudelin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

on 17/06/05 22:51, Jeff Hubatka at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Jun 17, 2005, at 4:25 PM, G-Books wrote:



First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600
[snip]
The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because
Tiger dose not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party  
software to
support this printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this  
computer into

a print server and go around the Appletalk issue?


The 16/600 supports IP printing, that's how I have mine set up via
ethernet. You can manually set a IP address using the LaserWriter
Utility from OS9 or Classic, then just set it up in Print Center.


Mine is configure for AppleTalk over Ethernet. I think the part  
that is now
missing is file sharing over AppleTalk. Tiger supports only  
AppleTalk over

TCP/IP for file sharing.

-Laurent.


If file sharing is an issue, I just wrote up some instructions a  
couple of days ago for the Powerbooks listYou can connect via IP  
from System 7 and 8 up to Tiger, but you can't connect down from  
Tiger to System 7 or 8 via AFP/AppleTalk.
So to answer the OP's question, the printer is natively supported  
over an ethernet network, it just has to be via IP rather than  
AppleTalk. It doesn't need any third party software. All the ports  
can be active at the same time.



---
JSH
TiBook
"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship."
(Zeuxis)


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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 18, 2005, at 7:00 AM, David Lesher wrote:






A solution for Mac OS 7 and 8 is Shareway IP.

http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/



Wonder if it is more stable than the Apple solution??



Apple's solution IS Sharway IP, so probably not.




The whole thing is really stoopid. All Apple would need to do for a  
workaround would be provide a tickler that would send some minor  
traffic every 45 seconds to keep the connections from crashing.  
That way, they'd not even need to fix their branedead OSX code...


Given that one of the longest standing Anti-Mac myths I've had to  
fight with is "Appletalk is an interminably chatty protocol, clogging  
up the network. That's why we can't allow them on the network."  I  
don't think that it's 'stoopid' at all.


I'd much rather Apple's software engineers look to moving forward,  
than dragging that long OS 8 and lower tail behind.


We've come a long way...our network now has a healthy percentage of  
Macs, where once upon a time I was threatened with being disciplined  
for recommending someone consider a Mac.


--
Bruce Johnson

"no matter where you go, there you are", B. Banzai



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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[David Lesher]

A solution for Mac OS 7 and 8 is Shareway IP.

http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/


Wonder if it is more stable than the Apple solution??


Apple's solution IS Sharway IP, so probably not.



The whole thing is really stoopid. All Apple would need to do for a 
workaround would be provide a tickler that would send some minor 
traffic every 45 seconds to keep the connections from crashing. That 
way, they'd not even need to fix their branedead OSX code...



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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Bruce Johnson]

On Jun 17, 2005, at 3:49 PM, David Lesher wrote:




A solution for Mac OS 7 and 8 is Shareway IP.

http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/




Wonder if it is more stable than the Apple solution??


Apple's solution IS Sharway IP, so probably not.

--
Bruce Johnson
This is the sig that says 'NI!'




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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Laurent Daudelin]

on 17/06/05 22:51, Jeff Hubatka at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> On Jun 17, 2005, at 4:25 PM, G-Books wrote:
> 
>> First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600
>> PS and
>> Color StyleWriter 1500. The StyleWriter was never supported by OSX
>> even though
>> I have it hooked to my ethernet network with another Apple product
>> (Apple
>> StyleWriter Ethernet Adapter) which works great in OS9.x and
>> earlier. Is there
>> any way to keep this as a viable printer on my network?
>> 
>> The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because
>> Tiger dose
>> not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party software to
>> support this
>> printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this computer into
>> a print
>> server and go around the Appletalk issue?
> 
> The 16/600 supports IP printing, that's how I have mine set up via
> ethernet. You can manually set a IP address using the LaserWriter
> Utility from OS9 or Classic, then just set it up in Print Center.

Mine is configure for AppleTalk over Ethernet. I think the part that is now
missing is file sharing over AppleTalk. Tiger supports only AppleTalk over
TCP/IP for file sharing.

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin   AIM/iChat: LaurentDaudelin
Logiciels Nemesys Software   mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

flowchart n.: [techspeak] An archaic form of visual control-flow
specification employing arrows and 'speech balloons' of various shapes.
Hackers never use flowcharts, consider them extremely silly, and associate
them with COBOL programmers, card wallopers, and other lower forms of life.
This attitude follows from the observations that flowcharts (at least from a
hacker's point of view) are no easier to read than code, are less precise,
and tend to fall out of sync with the code (so that they either obfuscate it
rather than explaining it, or require extra maintenance effort that doesn't
improve the code). See also PDL, sense 1.



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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Jeff Hubatka]

On Jun 17, 2005, at 4:25 PM, G-Books wrote:

First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600  
PS and
Color StyleWriter 1500. The StyleWriter was never supported by OSX  
even though
I have it hooked to my ethernet network with another Apple product  
(Apple
StyleWriter Ethernet Adapter) which works great in OS9.x and  
earlier. Is there

any way to keep this as a viable printer on my network?

The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because  
Tiger dose
not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party software to  
support this
printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this computer into  
a print

server and go around the Appletalk issue?


The 16/600 supports IP printing, that's how I have mine set up via  
ethernet. You can manually set a IP address using the LaserWriter  
Utility from OS9 or Classic, then just set it up in Print Center.


As for your older computers, they can connect up to Tiger via IP. You  
just can't connect from Tiger down.


---
JSH
TiBook


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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Dan O'Donnell]

On Jun 17, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Tim Collier wrote:

I have an option to turn on Appletalk and I'm using 10.4.  What are 
you talking about?


In system preferences click on network and then on the adapter and 
you'll see an Appletalk tab.


Tim
On Friday, June 17, 2005, at 05:46PM, pegleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:


I am sending this out to several lists because it is an issue that 
effects

many Mac users and business owners when they upgrade to Tiger.

Now that Appletalk has been removed from OSX Tiger, I am looking for 
solutions
for my older equipment. I would love to here any and all suggestions. 
I
imagine many others will be facing this problem as well when they 
upgrade to

Tiger.



I believe he may also have to turn on AppleTalk in Directory Services.


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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[David Lesher]

Have you tried this. From Macintouch

Tiger refuses to work with some older Macs sharing files, saying "This file
server uses an incompatible version of the AFP protocol. You cannot connect
to it." You can check "Enable File Sharing clients to connect over TCP/IP"
in the File Sharing control panel of Mac OS 9. See KB 106461.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106461#sec4



This is a half-truth AFP worked at first over Appletalk, then 
later over TCP/IP.

{Actually... I think it first worked over Localtalk...}

The above turns on TCP/IP on OS9, period. No help on pre-9 boxes.

BUT...

I have a truckload of ADN bug reports on file over the resulting 
instability issue. If you have an OS9 box serving over TCP/IP and X.2 
or .3 {and maybe X.4, who knows...} desktops. the sharing session 
terminates every 90 seconds or so if idle.


Apple denied it was happening, then admitted it then was an issue, 
THEN promised "Just Buy Jaguar" and then when they was no help; 
"Duplicate Report" {i.e. others have already bitched and we're 
ignoring them too...}





A solution for Mac OS 7 and 8 is Shareway IP.

http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/



Wonder if it is more stable than the Apple solution??

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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Tim Collier]

I have an option to turn on Appletalk and I'm using 10.4.  What are you talking 
about?

In system preferences click on network and then on the adapter and you'll see 
an Appletalk tab.

Tim 
On Friday, June 17, 2005, at 05:46PM, pegleg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>I am sending this out to several lists because it is an issue that effects
>many Mac users and business owners when they upgrade to Tiger.
>
>Now that Appletalk has been removed from OSX Tiger, I am looking for solutions
>for my older equipment. I would love to here any and all suggestions. I
>imagine many others will be facing this problem as well when they upgrade to
>Tiger.
>
>First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600 PS and
>Color StyleWriter 1500. The StyleWriter was never supported by OSX even though
>I have it hooked to my ethernet network with another Apple product (Apple
>StyleWriter Ethernet Adapter) which works great in OS9.x and earlier. Is there
>any way to keep this as a viable printer on my network?
>
>The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because Tiger dose
>not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party software to support this
>printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this computer into a print
>server and go around the Appletalk issue?
>
>Lastly I have several Macs that do not support Appletalk IP. One the Quadra
>630(ATA), I have been using as a file server (small Mac that uses little power
>when left on 24/7.) I would really like to see these in Tiger. Is there
>software that will help: Timbuktu, VNC or another that will allow me to see
>the hard drive and transfer files? Any suggestions may be helpful?
>
>Opinion and gripe coming.
>
>Ok, why did Apple decide to leave AppleTalk out of Tiger? I know it is an old
>and wordy protocol but it has been the networking standard on Macs for 20
>years. This legacy solves many a problem for small business and home owners. I
>can understand that Apple wouldn't want to support third party legacy products
>but these are all Apple brand and Apple created equipment and protocols.
>Leaving Appletalk out is a slap in the face to long time Apple users who have
>supported them with purchases over the years.
>
>Personally, I think Apple should keep straight AppleTalk as an option as a
>show of support for their long time supporters and businesses.
>
>At the very least Apple should release Appletalk into the public domain so
>someone can write an open source implementation for those who need it.
>
>Bob Titus
>
>
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>
>


Exterminate all rational thought.

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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Aaron Willems]

Have you tried this. From Macintouch

Tiger refuses to work with some older Macs sharing files, saying "This file
server uses an incompatible version of the AFP protocol. You cannot connect
to it." You can check "Enable File Sharing clients to connect over TCP/IP"
in the File Sharing control panel of Mac OS 9. See KB 106461.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106461#sec4

A solution for Mac OS 7 and 8 is Shareway IP.

http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/

-- 
Aaron Willems
IT Administrator
Lieberman Productions






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Re: Tiger without Appletalk issues

[Laurent Daudelin]

On 17/06/05 17:48, "pegleg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600 PS and
> Color StyleWriter 1500. The StyleWriter was never supported by OSX even though
> I have it hooked to my ethernet network with another Apple product (Apple
> StyleWriter Ethernet Adapter) which works great in OS9.x and earlier. Is there
> any way to keep this as a viable printer on my network?
> 
> The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because Tiger dose
> not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party software to support this
> printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this computer into a print
> server and go around the Appletalk issue?

Ugh? I have the exact same LaserWriter, the 16/600 PS and I can still print
to it while in Tiger.

-Laurent.
-- 

Laurent Daudelin Developer, Multifamily, ESO, Fannie Mae
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Washington, DC, USA
 Usual disclaimers apply ***


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Tiger without Appletalk issues

[pegleg]

I am sending this out to several lists because it is an issue that effects
many Mac users and business owners when they upgrade to Tiger.

Now that Appletalk has been removed from OSX Tiger, I am looking for solutions
for my older equipment. I would love to here any and all suggestions. I
imagine many others will be facing this problem as well when they upgrade to
Tiger.

First are my printers. Both are Apple printers: LaserWriter 16/600 PS and
Color StyleWriter 1500. The StyleWriter was never supported by OSX even though
I have it hooked to my ethernet network with another Apple product (Apple
StyleWriter Ethernet Adapter) which works great in OS9.x and earlier. Is there
any way to keep this as a viable printer on my network?

The LaserWriter has just recently become a problem and only because Tiger dose
not support AppleTalk. Dose anyone make third party software to support this
printer over an ethernet network? Or can I hook this computer into a print
server and go around the Appletalk issue?

Lastly I have several Macs that do not support Appletalk IP. One the Quadra
630(ATA), I have been using as a file server (small Mac that uses little power
when left on 24/7.) I would really like to see these in Tiger. Is there
software that will help: Timbuktu, VNC or another that will allow me to see
the hard drive and transfer files? Any suggestions may be helpful?

Opinion and gripe coming.

Ok, why did Apple decide to leave AppleTalk out of Tiger? I know it is an old
and wordy protocol but it has been the networking standard on Macs for 20
years. This legacy solves many a problem for small business and home owners. I
can understand that Apple wouldn't want to support third party legacy products
but these are all Apple brand and Apple created equipment and protocols.
Leaving Appletalk out is a slap in the face to long time Apple users who have
supported them with purchases over the years.

Personally, I think Apple should keep straight AppleTalk as an option as a
show of support for their long time supporters and businesses.

At the very least Apple should release Appletalk into the public domain so
someone can write an open source implementation for those who need it.

Bob Titus


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