Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Test Programs for an ATI Radeon 9800Pro in a G4
On 4/4/09 02:36, insightinmind billycarm...@verizon.net wrote: Anyone got some recommendations for anything to test my AGP video card? Its in a QS 2002 Dual 1GHz. (ATI Radeon 9800Pro Mac Edition) AMD (ATI/Avid) suggested Googling to find 3D Benchmark applications ... I couldn't find anything I could easily acquire. Suggestions welcomed. OpenMark was recommended to me but I never got around to using it.. http://mac.majorgeeks.com/download5008.html yet - one day... Pete --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
(a) Should I just go get the 800/400 Firewire cable and do it that way? Does that still work between Leopard and Tiger? Migration Assistant via Firewire worked fine going from my Sawtooth G4 running 10.3 to an Intel iMac running 10.5. Should work fine from Tiger as well. Never tried migration via ethernet. Bob --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? _ Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
question about our Group
I have a Sonnet upgrade card that I no longer use. Is it OK on this list to offer items like this for sale to members of our Group? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
On Apr 3, 9:39 pm, Paul Stamsen paterfami...@gmail.com wrote: Previously, at 5:54 pm -0700 4/3/09, Maretta Holden wrote: I too am still using Eudora and, with the complexity of my mailbox organization and associated filters, returning to a three-pane window after reading each message would drive me crazy in short order. I am on a large number of mailing lists on different topics of interest. Each mailing list has its own mailbox and filters allocate new input messages to the appropriate mailboxes, allowing me complete control over what and how I read. Each mailbox has a time-ordered list of messages, collected by subject. I frequently keep interesting threaded discussions which do not take up much room since they are text-only. Why can't anyone upgrade Eudora to be like Eudora? I have been using it since my Performa and I'll stop when they pry it out of my cold dead Mac! P. Infinity Data Systems is developing an updated version of Eudora. Was originally called Odysseus, now MailForge. Still in beta (free), almost ready for prime time ($40). The latest version is 1.0 Beta 18. For info, download etc. go to http://www.infinitydatasystems.com/ mailforge/index.html You have to register with their Forum in order to download. Charles Moore of Applelinks, another Eudora fan, is following the development of Odysseus/MailForge, writing reviews, etc. The most recent one I could find is at http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/ comments/22088/ Herb Goodfriend --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: question about our Group
On Apr 4, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote: I have a Sonnet upgrade card that I no longer use. Is it OK on this list to offer items like this for sale to members of our Group? Sales of things are usually offered on the LEM Swap List, For more info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/swap.html Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 7:45 AM -0400 4/4/2009, diane wrote: At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. No. SCSI drives can be low-level formatted. So this is not a problem. Of greater concern is the IQ and skills of the person buying the drive - they'll hit you back complaining the drive doesn't work and want to return it. To avoid that hassle, it would be easier to just zero and re-initialize them. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
At 8:45 PM -0700 4/3/2009, Kyle Hansen wrote: As an Apple Certified Technician I am getting a ton of client complaints regarding Eudora, especially in the last few weeks. Real Eudora or Thunderbird with the Penelope strap-on? isn't Eudora just a different GUI over Thunderbird now? The Penelope project is working on that. It has far far far to go. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Penelope I never really liked Eudora because it was freeware written for a University and it was not polished. I equated it to Norton. I spent more time troubleshooting those two programs than any others. Eudora evolved a lot from its University days. Vers 6 is quite polished, IMO, and very stable. If your clients are having problems with Eudora, then you need to dig in and fix it. Eudora (with sounds disabled) is quite stable on both Tiger and Leopard. *Sometimes* things get rocky if you have a lot of very large or corrupted mailboxes. There is a limit of 32,000 messages per mailbox. The ones to check are In, Out, and Trash -- they're kept open all the time. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
At 8:56 PM -0500 4/3/2009, Wendell Mendell wrote: new Mini and want to migrate user accounts from my G4 Sawtooth, running 10.4.11. (a) Should I just go get the 800/400 Firewire cable and do it that way? Having the older computer booted in firewire target disk mode does seem to work better. Certainly faster than using file sharing (ethernet). Does that still work between Leopard and Tiger? Certainly. (b) An Apple Help Desk person did not think it was possible to migrate accounts from one computer to another (much to my astonishment). She only talked about transferring files. I know how to transfer files. If I were to just transfer files and not use the Migration Assistant, which ones should I bring over? I know something about Libraries and such, but I would think that trying to move all the bits and pieces from one operating system to the other might have unintended consequences. And then there are the Applications.. Use Migration Assistant to move what it can. Just be aware that some apps will need to be upgraded, because you're not only switching from Tiger to Leopard, but you're also going from PowerPC to Intel x86. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 10:07 AM -0400 4/4/09, Dan wrote: At 7:45 AM -0400 4/4/2009, diane wrote: At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. No. SCSI drives can be low-level formatted. So this is not a problem. Of greater concern is the IQ and skills of the person buying the drive - they'll hit you back complaining the drive doesn't work and want to return it. To avoid that hassle, it would be easier to just zero and re-initialize them. Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. Thanks! Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. I would try selling them on the LEM swap list. But you will have to list them as untested and therefore sold as is which will reduce the asking price. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
At 11:25 PM -0700 4/3/09, Kyle Hansen posted: On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. 'tweren't me that asked. 'Twas me that answered. Bad horsie, you get the stick, not the carot. Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane There really is no quick and easy way that I know of. It kind of depends on what kind of data was on the hard drives as to what level of erase you need. The best way is to use an application that writes either all zeros or random data over the drive. Disk Utility in OS X will do this, but if you are talking SCSI you're probably not working with OS X. A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. Hope this helps, Stephen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
At 2:04 AM -0700 4/4/09, Gary D. posted: I had exactly the same situation. Sonnet has a FireWire adapter from 800 to 400 that works great for me. May be cheaper than a cable. I also considered the Ethernet route but found it too complicated. Strange when I search US sites I'm finding adapters that say they are 800/400 but when I hit the Canadian sites I'm getting 4-pin/6-pin descriptions. Is this adapter from Tigerdirect.ca the right adapter to finally use my Firewire 800 port with my Firewire 400 peripherals? It's cheaper by half of the adapters I'm seeing on the US sites which is usually not the case. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=242768CatId=472 Thanks Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
Previously, at 11:45 pm -0400 4/3/09, Dan wrote: Eudora's alert sounds are broken in Tiger and known to cause deeper problems in Leopard. Quicktime hangs, freezes, etc. I'm not much for apps making noise either. I've got 'em all disabled, except for Adium. Gotta have the Duck. Long live the Duck! - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth I have them on on my BW and Mom's iMac and we've never had problems. What should I be watching out for? P. -- Sometimes the mind, for reasons we don't necessarily understand, just decides to go to the store for a quart of milk. -- Diane Frolov and Andrew Schneider --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
On Apr 4, 2009, at 12:37 AM, Jonas Ulrich wrote: I followed all the directions on the gmail site to set up the account via mail 3.0 using imap. I want to use the gmail account that I am using to write this email on. I have had this account for years. When I open my account through mail nothing happens. It doesn't start downloading my mail or anything even if i click get mail. It worked with pop. -Jonas You sure there is something there to download?? If you have been accessing the account with a pop setup, it may have deleted all the waiting messages already. Chuck D. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
Previously, at 8:45 pm -0700 4/3/09, Kyle Hansen wrote: As an Apple Certified Technician I am getting a ton of client complaints regarding Eudora, especially in the last few weeks. I liked Eudora in 1996. But it was always glitchy for me. For some reasons a certain percentage of people LOVE it and would never switch. But isn't Eudora just a different GUI over Thunderbird now? Maybe it's the GUI I love? assuming we both mean the same thing by graphical user interface. From Wikipedia: On October 11, 2006, Qualcomm announced that future versions of Eudora would be based on the same technology platform as Mozilla Thunderbird and be open source. The current codename for this project is Penelope. Penelope is developed by the Mozilla Foundation, and the project is being led by the former Qualcomm team, including original developer Steve Dorner. I never really liked Eudora because it was freeware written for a University and it was not polished. I equated it to Norton. I spent more time troubleshooting those two programs than any others. I personally hate apple's mail client as well. When people's mail boxes get too large it tends to crash and lockup etc. That's why I use the evil Entourage. It can handle anything I throw at it. 50 mailboxes, 8 mailing lists, 100 filters etc. Never an issue. Oh, it's not free though. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. -- - Reaganomics proved what every farmer knows: The only thing that trickles down is fertilizer! - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:54 PM, diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Just reformat them, or if you have access to one of the servers, use Darik's Boot-n-Nuke on 'em. A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... One firther note...Are these Compaq-labelled Seagate OEM drives? If so, the 4.3 gig ones may be permanently set to needing an external signal to start up...I had one, and I always had to use SCSI Probe to poke it before it spun up, no matter how the jumpers were set -- Bruce Johnson U of Az College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions don't have opinions, merely custom --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: LCD Cleaning???
On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:49 PM, James E. Therrault wrote: I love my 22 Samsung but I need to clean the screen without destroying anything. What's the best solution(s) to a messy situation? I use some prewetted eyeglass cleaning wipes. I've even used them successfully to eliminate or greatly reduce keyboard marks on laptop screens. -- Bruce Johnson U of Az College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
On Apr 4, 12:37 am, Jonas Ulrich jonasulrich3...@gmail.com wrote: I followed all the directions on the gmail site to set up the account via mail 3.0 using imap. I want to use the gmail account that I am using to write this email on. I have had this account for years. When I open my account through mail nothing happens. It doesn't start downloading my mail or anything even if i click get mail. It worked with pop. -Jonas Did you disable POP and enable IMAP here? http://mail.google.com/mail/?zx=4f1a55b27hz0shva=1#settings/fwdandpop --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
On Apr 4, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Steve R wrote: Is this adapter from Tigerdirect.ca the right adapter to finally use my Firewire 800 port with my Firewire 400 peripherals? It's cheaper by half of the adapters I'm seeing on the US sites which is usually not the case. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=242768CatId=472 No, this is for the really small 4-pin FW connector typically found on PC laptops or cameras (it doesn't carry power) http://tinyurl.com/d96wwl The second one down is what you want. Monoprice is THE place to buy cables. We get all our cabling from them for work, ethernet, scsi, fiber, etc. -- Bruce Johnson U of Az College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions don't have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
On Apr 4, 10:23 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:56 PM -0500 4/3/2009, Wendell Mendell wrote: (b) An Apple Help Desk person did not think it was possible to migrate accounts from one computer to another (much to my astonishment). She only talked about transferring files. I know how to transfer files. If I were to just transfer files and not use the Migration Assistant, which ones should I bring over? I know something about Libraries and such, but I would think that trying to move all the bits and pieces from one operating system to the other might have unintended consequences. And then there are the Applications.. Use Migration Assistant to move what it can. I am not keen on Migration Assistant, having failed from a G4 with Panther to a G4 with Tiger, and then from that same G4 with Panther to an Intel iMac with Leopard. But try it anyway. For insurance, be ready to use the recent, excellent advice near the end of this thread: http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list/t/aabee6132bfc9e3e?hl=en I have twice moved my mailboxes and User library plists this way. I have not gone after the filters plist. And if you end up moving everything manually, you may want to fetch your browser bookmarks in your Library Preferences. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: LCD Cleaning???
Bruce Johnson wrote: On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:49 PM, James E. Therrault wrote: I love my 22 Samsung but I need to clean the screen without destroying anything. What's the best solution(s) to a messy situation? I use some prewetted eyeglass cleaning wipes. I've even used them successfully to eliminate or greatly reduce keyboard marks on laptop screens. H, interesting since my G4 laptop is pristine except for some keyboard marks. Thanks Bruce and to others who have responded! JT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: LCD Cleaning???
.To be more specific about the alcohol.I was told to never use rubbing (Isopropyl) alcohol on any of my camera lenses to remove smudges from the front element by Nikon or its coating may be damaged...and that only a mix of distilled water and denatured alcohol would work. The way I see it, what's good for $2k lenses must be OK for a monitor. Wayne Alexis Studios **Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Okay, once I've built my iWeb site, how do I post it?
It's about 10 short, canned pages, lifted straight from one of the iWeb templates. One or two photos per page. It's intended to help me sell my house. On Apr 3, 10:28 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:46 PM -0700 4/2/2009, tonycd wrote: What kind of web site is it? If it's just personal stuff, and relatively small, you can stash it on your ISP's server, or on a service like Dropbox. If it's large or commercial, you'll need to buy space somewhere. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
On Apr 4, 2:25 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. Kyle Hansen Telling us how old your are? Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: LCD Cleaning???
On Apr 4, 2009, at 9:43 AM, wtob...@aol.com wrote: .To be more specific about the alcohol.I was told to never use rubbing (Isopropyl) alcohol on any of my camera lenses to remove smudges from the front element by Nikon or its coating may be damaged...and that only a mix of distilled water and denatured alcohol would work. Denatured alcohol is any formulation of ethanol (grain alcohol, ordinarily used as an intoxicating beverage) and a denaturant which renders it unfit for human consumption. Gasoline is a common denaturant for grain alcohol intended for ethanol additives for gasoline. Nicotine is also a common denaturant. I suspect that grain alcohol which is used in lens cleaning fluid has a specific denaturant added which may be significantly different than that which is added, by law, for motor fuels and vinegar production. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
My personal knowledge is a bit stale but last I knew a step in fabrication of a hard drive was a run through a precision spinning table that wrote basic magnetic information on a disk that was intended for use by software that could format the platters into sectors and cylinders. It's likely that the magnetic fields used for that purpose were considerably higher than those used for normal reading and writing but it would be quite possible to destroy the information needed for reformatting were a large magnet to be used. Permanent magnets can be used to demagnetize floppy disks. Those depend on careful alignment of the write heads on the drives for formatting of the disk and the read and write fields are high enough to saturate the hysteresis curve of the magnetic oxide. More or less high density hard drives behave like analog devices these days with the digital data being treated much like a telephone modem talking to a tape recorder only at vastly higher baud rates. A moment for an old story please: In the early 1970's my laboratory with the US Navy became aware of a bunch of small computers that were to be decommissioned by the Air Force. The thought was that each of us could actually have one on his desktop. But. . . The computers were coming out of intercontinental missiles that were being replaced in their silos with newer beasts. The disks in them contained highly classified targeting information and nobody knew how to erase them. Overwriting a few hundred times was not good enough because special techniques were available to look only at the very edges of the tracks and recover information. The computers, with their disks, were crushed. -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
At 09:52 -0700 4/4/09, Al Poulin wrote: On Apr 4, 2:25 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. Kyle Hansen Telling us how old your are? Naah. He would have pointed out that the energy in the spinning disk is proportional to the squares of the diameters and the angular velocities. Ignoring the mass difference: Energy in spinning disk = (7200 / 78)^2 * (5 / 13)^2 * energy in spinning album. The hard disk wins by well over 1000 times. How old am I? -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? On Apr 3, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: You would make them unusable Is this true? What is the mechanism that makes them unusable? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Migration from G4 Tiger to new Mini Leopard
At 9:29 AM -0700 4/4/09, Bruce Johnson posted: On Apr 4, 2009, at 8:28 AM, Steve R wrote: Is this adapter from Tigerdirect.ca the right adapter to finally use my Firewire 800 port with my Firewire 400 peripherals? It's cheaper by half of the adapters I'm seeing on the US sites which is usually not the case. http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=242768CatId=472 No, this is for the really small 4-pin FW connector typically found on PC laptops or cameras (it doesn't carry power) http://tinyurl.com/d96wwl The second one down is what you want. Monoprice is THE place to buy cables. We get all our cabling from them for work, ethernet, scsi, fiber, etc. Thanks, Bruce. Glad I didn't place the order ;-) Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar wrote: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. This seems reasonable to me. The idea that it would render a HD unusable I doubt. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
MailForge Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
At 6:13 AM -0700 4/4/09, Goody2 wrote: Infinity Data Systems is developing an updated version of Eudora. Was originally called Odysseus, now MailForge. Still in beta (free), almost ready for prime time ($40). The latest version is 1.0 Beta 18. For info, download etc. go to http://www.infinitydatasystems.com/ mailforge/index.html You have to register with their Forum in order to download. Charles Moore of Applelinks, another Eudora fan, is following the development of Odysseus/MailForge, writing reviews, etc. The most recent one I could find is at http://www.applelinks.com/index.php/ comments/22088/ Wow, I had not heard of this before. Is this truly similar to the way Eudora is set up, with separate windows? Thanks so much for the info! Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 7:40 AM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com Broadcast into the ether: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. It takes 7 (minimum) zero writes to make a drive's Data unrecoverable, and even then I have seen it recovered. But most people do not have the skills to recover the data after a simple single pass, so go ahead and write 0's to it once and sell it. Unless you are selling it to an ex husband or someone you suspect is a criminal go ahead. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 8:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar sbod...@gci.net Broadcast into the ether: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. We had one at our shop that would kill a Hard Drive in one shot. Magnets do work. You must have had the wrong kind. An AC magnet works, but it will make the drive unusable. IF you are really concerned about data security the only efffective ways to ensure this are to smash it with a hammer, put it in a metal shredder or go to a foundry and melt it (or something else creative). Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 9:21 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast into the ether: A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... I think I am gonna have a heart attackBruce is wrong about something. Someone make sure an asteroid isn't about to plummet into the earth. http://www.degausser.info/degaussers/hd.htm And from wikipedia: Data is stored in the magnetic media, such as hard drives, floppy disks and magnetic tape, by making very small areas called magnetic domains change their magnetic alignment to be in the direction of an applied magnetic field. This phenomenon occurs in much the same way a compass needle points in the direction of the earth's magnetic field. Degaussing, commonly called erasure, leaves the domains in random patterns with no preference to orientation, thereby rendering previous data unrecoverable. There are some domains whose magnetic alignment is not randomized after degaussing. The information these domains represent is commonly called magnetic remanence since it is due to remanent magnetization. Proper degaussing will ensure there is insufficient magnetic remanence to reconstruct the data. And the only reason I know this is it is one of the tools we use at the government lab to destroy drives...the other is the metal shredder which is WAY more fun. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
My head sometimes spins at 45 RPM. How old am I. I couldn't resist. --- On Sat, 4/4/09, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com wrote: From: Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com Subject: Re: resurrecting a hard drive? To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Saturday, April 4, 2009, 10:28 AM At 09:52 -0700 4/4/09, Al Poulin wrote: On Apr 4, 2:25 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. Kyle Hansen Telling us how old your are? Naah. He would have pointed out that the energy in the spinning disk is proportional to the squares of the diameters and the angular velocities. Ignoring the mass difference: Energy in spinning disk = (7200 / 78)^2 * (5 / 13)^2 * energy in spinning album. The hard disk wins by well over 1000 times. How old am I? -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? On Apr 3, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: You would make them unusable Is this true? What is the mechanism that makes them unusable? The data is comprised of manufacturer's data cylinders and servo data, in addition to user data. Any erasure method which compromises any of the manufacturer's or servo data will render the drive completely useless. Small system drives are always of the fixed block architecture type, wherein the formatting was accomplished at the time of manufacture. Small system drives have not had a true formatting/initializing capability, in the traditional sense, for a number of decades. The format drive command is usually treated as a NOP (i.e., no operation). Mainframe drives of the count, key and data type, which have NEVER been found on small systems, always reformatted each track as these were written. It is still possible to compromise these drives by erasing the manufacturer's cylinders. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
Kyle Hansen wrote: And the only reason I know this is it is one of the tools we use at the government lab to destroy drives...the other is the metal shredder which is WAY more fun. Kyle Hansen Ya, but they don't let civillains have these, unless you roll your own from surplus! Stephen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 12:18 PM -0700 4/4/2009, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 4/4/09 9:21 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast into the ether: A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... I think I am gonna have a heart attackBruce is wrong about something. Someone make sure an asteroid isn't about to plummet into the earth. Re-read what Bruce wrote. A magnet that you're likely to have access... Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. The magnet is so strong that once it grabs the drive, it won't let go unless I pin the drive down with my feet and wiggle the magnet off with both hands. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Most of the data seems intact; very little seems scrambled. And Disk Utility found no errors in the file system. I'd say one needs a lot more powerful mechanism - like a real a/c degausser. Of more concern to me is that whole cyclotron bit. Bruce, is there something you're not telling us? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
I thought one of the ways security minded people ensured thieves and law enforcement type people didn't gain access to their data was by creating a magnetic loop around the doorframe of their designated computer room so that the information on the drives was rendered useless by the magnets?? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: MailForge Re: What is the point of Mail.app??
At 2:38 PM -0400 4/4/2009, diane wrote: Infinity Data Systems is developing an updated version of Eudora. Was originally called Odysseus, now MailForge. Still in beta (free), almost ready for prime time ($40). The latest version is 1.0 Beta 18. Wow, I had not heard of this before. Is this truly similar to the way Eudora is set up, with separate windows? Seems. But there are a lot of features missing. They're calling it beta, but I think it's more like pre-alpha. Feature incomplete. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
That was in the Floppy Disc age :-) Peter M. Sent with my mobile device -Original Message- From: Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:53:54 To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Erase a drive to sell I thought one of the ways security minded people ensured thieves and law enforcement type people didn't gain access to their data was by creating a magnetic loop around the doorframe of their designated computer room so that the information on the drives was rendered useless by the magnets?? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Dan wrote: Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. That's the Feynman spirit; less words, more action. Quick dirty wins. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Case closed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 1:42 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Re-read what Bruce wrote. A magnet that you're likely to have access... I could buy one of these at a local store. The one we had was the size and shape of one of those Paddles you see on ER when they zap someone to reboot their heart. It *is* a commonly available item. Those gigantic pick up a car magnets are not. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: But most people do not have the skills to recover the data after a simple single pass, so go ahead and write 0's to it once and sell it. My understanding of the issue is that she doesn't have a SCSI machine (or a SCSI card in a modern Mac) to do this. Recall that the first time someone suggested she zero the drive, Diane replied: On Apr 4, 2009, at 9:40 AM, diane wrote: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. I've heard two opposing takes on whether using a magnet is effective and/or safe. Anyone know for sure? I do know that magnets have very different properties. Those thin refrigerator magnets are done in layers and designed to be pretty strong but only very close to their surface. I expect you need a magnet that's strong enough at the appropriate distance to affect the actual disks of magnetic media inside the drive case. I have no idea if a magnet you might have around the house is capable of this, and if so, if it indeed would make the drive unusable. Joe == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Dan wrote: Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. The magnet is so strong that once it grabs the drive, it won't let go unless I pin the drive down with my feet and wiggle the magnet off with both hands. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Most of the data seems intact; very little seems scrambled. And Disk Utility found no errors in the file system. I'd say one needs a lot more powerful mechanism - like a real a/c degausser. And even so, if the data on the drive is very sensitive, since she has no way of testing whether the scrambling worked, she would never know if it was successfully erase (or still usable). == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 5:02 PM, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: I once ruined a Credit Card by putting it in a shirt pocket where I had forgotten I was carrying a small magnet. I used to wear a name tag held on by a small magnet, and I ruined several credit cards that way! Joe == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: resurrecting a hard drive?
On Apr 4, 2009, at 1:28 PM, Doug McNutt wrote: At 09:52 -0700 4/4/09, Al Poulin wrote: On Apr 4, 2:25 am, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/3/09 11:00 PM, Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: I meant to ask before ... is there any danger that a hard drive spinning at 7200rpm will flip out and take off across a room? shouldn't they be screwed down to something fixed? Do record players? Because that is basically what a hard disc is. Kyle Hansen Telling us how old your are? Naah. He would have pointed out that the energy in the spinning disk is proportional to the squares of the diameters and the angular velocities. Ignoring the mass difference: Energy in spinning disk = (7200 / 78)^2 * (5 / 13)^2 * energy in spinning album. The hard disk wins by well over 1000 times. How old am I? Revealing one's age by being familiar with vinyl records ... aren't they on the come back? Might cloud the insinuating circumstances ... Still wondering about the force surrounding the spinning HD plates ... as long as the plates stay alignrd and don't crash ... everything's probably A-OK ? Ooops ... a reference to the first flights in space ... How old am I? Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/4/09 8:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar sbod...@gci.net Broadcast into the ether: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. We had one at our shop that would kill a Hard Drive in one shot. Magnets do work. You must have had the wrong kind. An AC magnet works, but it will make the drive unusable. IF you are really concerned about data security the only efffective ways to ensure this are to smash it with a hammer, put it in a metal shredder or go to a foundry and melt it (or something else creative). Kyle Hansen -- _ Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I had an IDE external wrongly low level formatted at the university iT guy recently. It has been brain dead since. But then it is not SCSI. I havn't dealt with SCSI for a while so I can't remember the ins and outs but it seems I had to worry about sector mapping even on SCSI. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Okay, once I've built my iWeb site, how do I post it?
On 03-04-2009 17:44, Bruce Johnson, john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu, wrote: http://tinyurl.com/cn9dv9 Hey Bruce, I'm very curious about how you produced this walking URL. Jo Hissel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Okay, once I've built my iWeb site, how do I post it?
On Apr 4, 2009, at 7:10 PM, J.M.P.Hissel wrote: On 03-04-2009 17:44, Bruce Johnson, john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu, wrote: http://tinyurl.com/cn9dv9 Hey Bruce, I'm very curious about how you produced this walking URL. Jo Hissel Way to go Bruce! That'll teach us to Google FIRST ... G3-G5 LATER! That was spooky-cool ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Okay, once I've built my iWeb site, how do I post it?
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 7:10 PM, J.M.P.Hissel jo...@xs4all.nl wrote: On 03-04-2009 17:44, Bruce Johnson, john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu, wrote: http://tinyurl.com/cn9dv9 Hey Bruce, I'm very curious about how you produced this walking URL. Jo Hissel Hey Jo when you first start the page go to the view menu and select page source (control U in FF) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane If you were close to OKC, OK I could do it for you. It appears from your web site that you are on the east coast. Is there a user group in your area that could erase them for you? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
