Re: G5 1.6, XBMC Home Theater?
More than likely it's not two DVI ports, but one DVI and one ADC, if one has rounded sides, it's an ADC connector. Right you are, rounded sides. I was just told tonight (by the bloke who gave me the G5) it's a special propriatory Apple connection for a flat see-through monitor. I guess that's an Apple Studio Display. I pick it up tomorrow. As for XMBC, sure it ought to work just fine. I suspect the G5's fans and general heat output might be an issue in the living room, but it certainly cannot hurt to try. Great news that XMBC should work. Yes, been reading how these machines run hot - luckily it's Winter and I have this Entertainment System in my basement. Also, DVI connects just fine to HDMI I should have said I have an ancient entertainment system instead of just old. I thought I would need a DVI to RCA (component video Y, Pr, Pb) adapter and found several for really cheap because apparently they don't work. More expensive ones were non-returnable. All reviews I read were horrible. Then I ran across the Apple DVI to Video Adapter [29 pin combined DVI - RCA 1 x 4 pin mini-DIN] Shortened description: The Apple DVI to Video Adapter was designed specifically to allow Power Mac G5 systems users to connect from the DVI port to S-video or Composite video devices such as TVs, VCRs...on the Power Mac G5 system only. Thanks for the input! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 Sawtooth problem
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:09 PM, Powermac teozen...@gmail.com wrote: I snagged a G4-400 Sawtooth in the hopes of upgrading it to a dual G4-500. Unfortunatly I didn't know you need a Uni-n rev 7 or higher for the setup to work (the machine boots into OS 9.2.2 fine and System profiler shows 2 x 500 CPUs with cache, but OSX installs kernal panic on booting from the OS disk). So what would be my options other then sticking the single G4-400 back into the system? Are sawtooth motherboards with rev 7 chip common and cheap? Will a newer motherboard (GiGE?) fit and work with the old PS? I feel your pain as I am in the same situation with my Sawtooth. There are supposedly two versions of the Sawtooth motherboard 820-1093-A (v1) and 820-1094-A (v2). I've been meaning to check and see if mine is the v1 and, if so, try and find a cheap v2 board. Changing motherboards completely will probably mean a different PS (to provide the ADC's 28 volts) and a different back panel (rearranged ports). I'd say that unless the v1-v2 swap works, then your best bet is a fast single. John -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
G4 450mhz dual
CS3 has to be on the startup partition; I don’t know about Final Cut. Why not partition that 150GB drive, e.g. in 60+90, and install the system on the 60? That will most likely speed up your computer as well. If 90GB for rendering is not enough, think about replacing the 30GB internal drive by another 150GB, or bigger -- they’re not expensive anymore, and you’ll earn it back quickly by saving time! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Installing tiger on a new hardrive
Forgot to say (on your other thread) that your G4 probably has the 120GB limit, meaning that you have to partition drives into volumes of max 120GB. A fresh OS install is always best, but you can clone your current system to another drive with Disk Utility or CCC (Carbon Copy). BLKBOX STUDIOZ wrote: Ok this is my deal I have a g4 dual 450 1..38 ram and the internal drive that came with it is 30 gigs I am now running tiger on it with cs2,final cut pro,livetype so it just to much for the 30 gig drive. So can I take that drive put in a 350 gig oh by the way it only notices 150 gig? anyway make it the master and load Tiger on it off master disk? Is that possibel or can I just load all those apps on the second 150 drive cs2 FCP ect? -- thanks Tony 619.546.2526 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: USB stick read only
I never knew USB sticks were so fragile. Also interesting how hot- swapping is really rather hot, and how the OS tries to cater for hardware issues. Great stuff, guys (i.e. guys and gals), I’m learning! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 450mhz dual
Why would partitioning and installing the system on the 60GB partition speed up the compute? Mel --- On Sun, 11/21/10, Geke gevangaste...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Geke gevangaste...@googlemail.com Subject: G4 450mhz dual To: G-Group g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 5:41 AM CS3 has to be on the startup partition; I don’t know about Final Cut. Why not partition that 150GB drive, e.g. in 60+90, and install the system on the 60? That will most likely speed up your computer as well. If 90GB for rendering is not enough, think about replacing the 30GB internal drive by another 150GB, or bigger -- they’re not expensive anymore, and you’ll earn it back quickly by saving time! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
How should a family of five share one computer?
This is a question about how to set up a Quicksilver dual so that a family can best use it, without disturbing the other family members parts. My boss at work loves him some PCs because he likes to get his hands under the hood and dirty them up; also, we get a lot of donated products because the company is a nonprofit. (Too bad that Apple doesn't donate Macs to public television.) He thinks Macs are just too much of an over-priced, closed system. And I think that I'll never get used to those problematic PCs at work because I'm so spoiled by smooth- operating, good-looking Macs on my desktops at home and work. The result is that I buy my own Mac for work. I just bought a very sweet iMac Core i3 for my job. It will handle the latest video file formats, video peripherals (like the Sony U1), and Avid's newest Media Composer app. And methinks the native 1920 by 1080 screen dimension should handle my HD projects with aplomb. This means that all of my current hardware can trickle down one notch: the Power Mac dual G5, my former workhorse, can go to my desktop at home; the iMac G5 on my desktop right at this moment can move across the room to my wife's desktop; and her Quicksilver dual can move into the home of my wife's niece. This niece is a struggling single mom, currently supporting four kids from middle school to elementary ages. (Insert your version of hard- living here; it would likely pale in comparison to this one.) They are very needy, and I believe that a computer would be a valuable addition to their home. While the mom is the least computer-literate, I fear that any one of these five family members could probably wipe out huge parts of the OS and personal bits (belonging to others) if the machine is not set up appropriately for all of these users. Some of ya'll are managers of computer systems both large and small, and have lots of valuable experience. I'm thinking of installing Leopard and providing a Time Machine backup hard drive. Would you recommend that I give them one admin account on the Quicksilver, known only by the mom, and one guest account for each family member to use? And of course, I will train them all the best I can. Thanks for your consideration. -- Michael Emery -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Installing tiger on a new hardrive
Those machines don't support hard drives over 128GB. You can buy a program called Speed Tools ATA High-Cap Driver that will bypass this limit, but you will be stuck with the drive split into two partitions. The other option is to put the hard drive into an external case and plug it into the firewire port. The computer will see the whole drive and you will be able to access it's total capacity. One more option is to get a PCI ATA card that doesn't have the 128GB limit. Yes you can install onto either an internal or external drive using the Mac OS X installer. Your easiest option is to get an external case for that drive, unless you don't mind it only being 128GB. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Installing tiger on a new hardrive
Thanks guys so it is ok to take out master drive and just install a fresh copy of tiger without the os9? On 11/21/10, Jonas Ulrich jonasulrich3...@gmail.com wrote: Those machines don't support hard drives over 128GB. You can buy a program called Speed Tools ATA High-Cap Driver that will bypass this limit, but you will be stuck with the drive split into two partitions. The other option is to put the hard drive into an external case and plug it into the firewire port. The computer will see the whole drive and you will be able to access it's total capacity. One more option is to get a PCI ATA card that doesn't have the 128GB limit. Yes you can install onto either an internal or external drive using the Mac OS X installer. Your easiest option is to get an external case for that drive, unless you don't mind it only being 128GB. -Jonas -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- Sent from my mobile device Tony Million BlkBox Studioz Million Productions 619.546.2526 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 450mhz dual
150GB drives do not exist. I think his original post referring to one had 5s where there should have been 2s where he referenced drive sizes. On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Geke gevangaste...@googlemail.com wrote: CS3 has to be on the startup partition; I don’t know about Final Cut. Why not partition that 150GB drive, e.g. in 60+90, and install the system on the 60? That will most likely speed up your computer as well. If 90GB for rendering is not enough, think about replacing the 30GB internal drive by another 150GB, or bigger -- they’re not expensive anymore, and you’ll earn it back quickly by saving time! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 450mhz dual
On Nov 21, 2010, at 8:48 AM, Chance Reecher wrote: 150GB drives do not exist. 160 GB drives certainly exist, as do 320 and 640 GBs. At the time 160 GB drives were quite popular, 300 and 400 GB drives also were popular. 500 GB drives and 250 GB drives which were derived from the 500 GB drives were also found. It is certainly possible that 150 GB drives were derived from 300 GB drives, and 200 GB drives were derived from 400 GB drives, by the simple expedient of eliminating platters. Dual G4s were made in 2 x 450 and 2 x 500 versions (Gigabit Ethernets, 100 MHz bus, 4 RAM slots, 3 PCI slots, AGP, video). Dual G4s were also 2 x 533 (Digital Audios, 133 MHz bus, 3 RAM slots, 4 PCI slots, AGP video) -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Dead Drive? - Group Reply.
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 1:10 PM, Gottick International i...@gottick.com wrote: The old one had a jumper. ;-) And I put it in the same spot on the new drive. Not sure if there ever was a resolution to this or not and I'm curious. As was previously pointed out, just copying the jumper settings from an old drive to a new one is not a good way to go. Did you try removing the jumper and seeing what happens with this drive? Have you tried attaching it as an external drive via USB or firewire? -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Installing tiger on a new hardrive
On Nov 21, 2010, at 5:52 AM, Geke wrote: Forgot to say (on your other thread) that your G4 probably has the 120GB limit, meaning that you have to partition drives into volumes of max 120GB. Speed Tools available at OWC will overcome the 128 GB limit on the oder G4's also there's an open firmware command that does it but it's never worked for me. Partitioning will not help the 128 limit. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: How should a family of five share one computer?
On Nov 21, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Michael Emery wrote: Some of ya'll are managers of computer systems both large and small, and have lots of valuable experience. I'm thinking of installing Leopard and providing a Time Machine backup hard drive. Would you recommend that I give them one admin account on the Quicksilver, known only by the mom, and one guest account for each family member to use? And of course, I will train them all the best I can. Took the words right out of my mouth. That's the way I'd go. Also consider appropriate Parental Control setups for the kid's accounts. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Dead Drive? - John
The old one had a jumper. ;-) And I put it in the same spot on the new drive. Not sure if there ever was a resolution to this or not and I'm curious. As was previously pointed out, just copying the jumper settings from an old drive to a new one is not a good way to go. Did you try removing the jumper and seeing what happens with this drive? Have you tried attaching it as an external drive via USB or firewire? -irrational john By all the experts here putting jumpers on this drive is not the way to go. At least I was told so. Right now the dirve shows up every other time (yes) on Disk Utility and can not be partitioned or erased. DiksU claims that the 500 GIG drive is 446 GIG. A -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: G4 Sawtooth problem
On Nov 20, 2010, at 9:24 PM, Powermac wrote: Did you mean burns DVDs in 5 minutes? 5 hours seems a little slow. I put a 22x DVD burner in my Quicksilver, it burns DVDs pretty fast. I suspect she meant 'encode and burn a dvd'. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: How should a family of five share one computer?
Sounds good. Those G4 duals are fantastic little computers, and she probably would love it. Those middle school age kids would love a computer. Myself being an HS student, I couldn't imagine getting through 8th and 9th GD without my trusty Wallstreet. Sent from a computer running either the SPARC, Itanium, or PowerPC architecture. On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Nov 21, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Michael Emery wrote: Some of ya'll are managers of computer systems both large and small, and have lots of valuable experience. I'm thinking of installing Leopard and providing a Time Machine backup hard drive. Would you recommend that I give them one admin account on the Quicksilver, known only by the mom, and one guest account for each family member to use? And of course, I will train them all the best I can. Took the words right out of my mouth. That's the way I'd go. Also consider appropriate Parental Control setups for the kid's accounts. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: How should a family of five share one computer?
On 11/21/10 8:38 AM, Michael Emery wrote: This is a question about how to set up a Quicksilver dual so that a family can best use it, without disturbing the other family members parts. MAKE AN ACCOUNT FOR EACH CHILD that keeps them from any application you don't want them to have access to (and keeps them from seeing the hard drive even). The Mom would her account with admin rights... but just for an extra measure of protection, I would add in another Administrator account too - that YOU might use in case everything get's really screwed up - you could still log-in under your user name and password and fix stuff. [Please realize I only used 10.4.11 Tiger, but the basic stuff I think is still the same. Also realize these were directions to a parent] When my 5 year old daughter logs on, she only sees a few educational games, lots of non-educational dress up Flash Games and only the educational websites I've bookmarked for her in Safari. My 10 year old son sees the educational websites I've bookmarked for him in Safari (you can completely block them from the Internet too), some games and some apps (like OOo4Kids - a fantastic version of OpenOffice for children). For both my kids they do not see the full Finder, so they don't have access to the Hard Drive and other things I don't want them messing with. TO CREATE A USER ACCOUNT: go to Apple/System Preferences/System Accounts (two silhouettes). Click the lock on the bottom left if it's locked and put in your username and password. Then click the little plus + sign above the padlock to add a new account. Put in your child's name or nick-name, give them a password, type the password in again to verify, Describe the password in a hint for them if you want and click the Create Account button. DON'T click Allow this user to Administer the computer unless they are old enough/experienced enough to do so. If they are fairly young, or you're just worried about them messing with stuff they shouldn't (I know I am) YOU SHOULD click the checkbox for Simple Finder. You can pick a picture to go along with the account, check off any apps you want to start up automatically in Login Items, and then click the Parental Controls button. From there, Click Application and Finder to pick which apps you want your child to have access to (for Flash Game access, make sure the application iSwif is checked in Finder and Applications). If you choose to allow your child(ren) to have access to the Internet, click on Safari too - in both the front screen of Parental Controls and in the list of Apps under Finder and Applications. For Safari, you have to then log in as them, Run the Full Finder, Open Safari, go to Safari/Preferences.../Security/ and uncheck the Enable Parental Controls box - Delete any bookmarks you don't want, add any bookmarks you do, then enable parental controls again, go back to Simple Finder. Later, if you are just adding one website for your child, you can just make them turn the other way, put in your user name and password and bookmark the site. Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Dead Drive?
On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Gottick International i...@gottick.com wrote: By all the experts here putting jumpers on this drive is not the way to go. At least I was told so. I would agree with that. As was also previously mentioned, the main reason for the jumper was because during the early days of SATA implementations some controllers did not correctly implement the auto-negotiation of the connection speed. As time passed and these controllers passed into history, the jumpers appear to have gone away or used for other purposes. At any rate, correctly implemented SATA should not require any jumpers on a SATA drive at least that's my understanding. Right now the dirve shows up every other time (yes) on Disk Utility and can not be partitioned or erased. DiksU claims that the 500 GIG drive is 446 GIG. Well that doesn't sound right. If it were me I would attempt to narrow down where the fault might be. If returning it to the place you purchased it from is not an option, then I would see if the drive fails to work in either another system or as an external drive. If you can go back to a retailer then do so. I would assume they would probably test the drive themselves but they may just replace it for you. (I haven't bought hard drives other than by mail order in so long that I really have no idea what a retailer might do in this situation). In any case, I would suggest you do find out what is what soon. If the drive IS bad then the longer you wait the harder it may be to get whomever you bought the drive from to replace it. You could most likely still replace it under the manufacturer's warranty, but not as easily. (And I don't think you could be assured you'd be getting a new drive as a replacement in that case). -irrational john -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
