Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
On Mar 23, 12:29 am, ah...clem boneheads...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 22, 11:57 am, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: Oh puleeeze. You're claiming a dual 1.25 Ghz G4 on a 333 mHz bus can compare to a Mac Pro (which at a MINIMUM has 2 2.66Ghz dual core Xeons with 667 Mhz memory bus) with a few COMPILER TWEAKS??? (which tweaks, BTW, Apple's dev tools pretty much apply automatically when you select PPC as a compile target) i never claimed any such thing! re-read the post, bruce. if you want to win the discussion so desperately that you will resort to putting words in my mouth, then you only underscore the weakness of your own position. what i said was that PPC versus intel of comparable clock speeds was no contest. given software well written for each, the PPC was damned near twice as fast as the intel on real world computationally intensive tasks. Ok, I'll ask - I am well aware of how AltiVec functioned. And no argument that an Intel-written SW may not properly run on a PPC to take advantage. Honest question though - Doesn't Intel have a similar functioning SIMD unit? Also 128bit wide? If that's the case, I'd expect that a 4x2.8GHz machine to be 4.48X as fast as a 2x1.25GHz machine, given the similarity between both SIMD units. The near 10X improvement I see proves your point, to me, at least, that the code was not optimized for PPC, specifically AltiVec. I have the latest DVD rip I'm sending to a TiVo, will run on both machines to confirm exact ratio I see. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
Ok, I'll ask - I am well aware of how AltiVec functioned. And no argument that an Intel-written SW may not properly run on a PPC to take advantage. Honest question though - Doesn't Intel have a similar functioning SIMD unit? Also 128bit wide? If that's the case, I'd expect that a 4x2.8GHz machine to be 4.48X as fast as a 2x1.25GHz machine, given the similarity between both SIMD units. The near 10X improvement I see proves your point, to me, at least, that the code was not optimized for PPC, specifically AltiVec. I have the latest DVD rip I'm sending to a TiVo, will run on both machines to confirm exact ratio I see. You're right - Intel does have a competing technology called SSE. You can read more about it here, though don't ask me to translate into English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions I've never seen a performance comparison between Altivec and SSE, though it would make an interesting read. Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
At 7:15 AM -0700 3/23/2011, imrazor wrote: Ok, I'll ask - I am well aware of how AltiVec functioned. And no argument that an Intel-written SW may not properly run on a PPC to take advantage. Honest question though - Doesn't Intel have a similar functioning SIMD unit? Also 128bit wide? If that's the case, I'd expect that a 4x2.8GHz machine to be 4.48X as fast as a 2x1.25GHz machine, given the similarity between both SIMD units. The near 10X improvement I see proves your point, to me, at least, that the code was not optimized for PPC, specifically AltiVec. I have the latest DVD rip I'm sending to a TiVo, will run on both machines to confirm exact ratio I see. You're right - Intel does have a competing technology called SSE. You can read more about it here, though don't ask me to translate into English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streaming_SIMD_Extensions I've never seen a performance comparison between Altivec and SSE, though it would make an interesting read. This is good too: http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ve/summary.html - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
On Mar 23, 9:34 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 7:15 AM -0700 3/23/2011, imrazor wrote: This is good too: http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ve/summary.html - Dan. Thanks Dan, that's a very good summary for a non-coder like myself. Apple claims that Altivec is twice as fast as SSE1/2/3 at 8 flops/ cycle vs SSE's 4flops/cycle, so theoretically shouldn't a G5 be twice as fast as an Intel processor at SIMD operations at equivalent clock speeds? Now the article mentions P4's, so I'm not sure if subsequent improvements in Intel's lineup would change that number. Or maybe Intel has added more registers? Plus I think SSE 4.1 is out now... Eric -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
At 9:44 AM -0700 3/23/2011, imrazor wrote: On Mar 23, 9:34 am, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 7:15 AM -0700 3/23/2011, imrazor wrote: This is good too: http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/ve/summary.html Thanks Dan, that's a very good summary for a non-coder like myself. Apple claims that Altivec is twice as fast as SSE1/2/3 at 8 flops/ cycle vs SSE's 4flops/cycle, so theoretically shouldn't a G5 be twice as fast as an Intel processor at SIMD operations at equivalent clock speeds? Now the article mentions P4's, so I'm not sure if subsequent improvements in Intel's lineup would change that number. Or maybe Intel has added more registers? Plus I think SSE 4.1 is out now... Google altivec vs sse. There are some interesting articles, albeit some quite old. Most complain about how nasty SSE is to use. As for performance, it really it depends on the actual operation being performed as to which is faster. The implementation of Altivec in the G4 and G5 processors was quite good, and usually outperformed Intelcarp. But there are a few benchmarks showing that SSE is faster. Again, like any benchmark, it depends on the individual task and coding and compiler and OS' runtimes. *shrug* This is all moot now tho as you just ain't gonna be running OS X on a POWER based system! Get over it. Suck it up. Learn to enjoy the Intel parts and their lower reliability. Or just hold your toes for a few more months, or perhaps a year... As ARM ramps up their design into the server market, I'll betcha a few million quatloos that we start seeing ARM-based Macs. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Dan wrote: *shrug* This is all moot now tho as you just ain't gonna be running OS X on a POWER based system! Also, it is moot now that Apple has the infrastructure in place to use the GPU as a vector processor which is probably faster than Altivec and SSE combined. http://developer.apple.com/technologies/mac/snowleopard/opencl.html (also any article that talks about SSE in a P4 is from the dark ages. Intel has produced THREE generations of CPU's since then.) -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Disappearing Ram in Powerbook G4 15inch
Not sure what's happening, but I had two profiles set up on my Powerbook G4 15, and for some reason after switching to the other user, I noticed that the applications folder had no folders in it. I thought that maybe my daughter did something funny, but then I open About this Mac and saw that there is only 1gig of Ram showing. So what happened to the other 1 gig stick of Ram? What causes that and is it common? How do I fix this? -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: How to install OS9 drivers after the fact?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Jeffrey Engle wrote: what if I forgot to install os9 drivers when I erased the hard drive the last time? Is there a way to install the os9 drivers without re- erasing the drive? I don't think this is the cause of your Option key boot problem, but you can reinstall OS 9 drivers by booting an OS 9 Install CD and navigating to Drive Setup and highlight the HD and select Update hard disk drivers. I don't think this will help. My advice for the Option key boot problem is to reset the NVRAM by booting into Open Firmware using Cmd-Opt-o-f at startup and then using the commands at the Open Firmware prompt: set-defaultsReturn reset-allReturn where Return means to hit the Return key. The responses should be ok to the 1st command, and a restart to the 2nd command. After this, try the Option key boot again. If it doesn't show, you might want to check the jumper settings on the HD, or the ATA cable. If you've reset the NVRAM and it's still not working, it's a hardware issue rather than a software issue. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: How to install OS9 drivers after the fact?
On Mar 23, 2011, at 3:00 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: I don't think this is the cause of your Option key boot problem, Your right Kris, two completely separate questions not relating to each other. Jeff Jeffrey Engle macgu...@gmail.com Kamiah, Idaho 83536 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disappearing Ram in Powerbook G4 15inch
On Mar 23, 2011, at 2:33 PM, Clmtyne wrote: Not sure what's happening, but I had two profiles set up on my Powerbook G4 15, and for some reason after switching to the other user, I noticed that the applications folder had no folders in it. I thought that maybe my daughter did something funny, but then I open About this Mac and saw that there is only 1gig of Ram showing. So what happened to the other 1 gig stick of Ram? What causes that and is it common? How do I fix this? Well the first thing I'd check is to see if the ram itself had come unseated; sometimes when it's not quite seated correctly in the first place, it will come loose after variable amounts of time or the usual abuse that happens to laptops takes it's toll. Sometimes you really have to push them into the slot before bringing them down and latching. (this happened to me just the other day installing RAM in a MacBook pro; one SODIMM didn't quite go in and all sorts of weird system hikjinks then occurred. Second possibility is that that SODIMM has gone bad. take one out and see if it boots up to 1 gig ram. if so, shut down, swap the SODIMM modules and try the other, in the same slot. If THAT one works try swapping it to the other slot; if it's the slot, that's bad news, because that's a 'replace your logic board' fix. If it all checks out ok, replace it all, log in as the original profile, and see what System Profiler says, if THAT'S ok, switch users and see what it says. If it's wrong only on the one profile you have something very weird wrong with that profile...this is the least likely possibility in my opinion; a SODIMM come loose is the most. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Option key boot?
At 2:20 PM -0700 3/23/2011, Jeremiah Stevens wrote: Hmm... not sure why it wouldnt show up. Which format do you have the hard drive set to? I am not sure if there is really much of a difference between Mac OS Extended and Mac OS Extended (Journaled) but I always set mine to Journaled and have never had a problem. Journaling is an enhancement upon HFS+. As far as the partition format is concerned, journaling is just a flag. It has nothing to do with boot operations. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Disappearing Ram in Powerbook G4 15inch
At 2:33 PM -0700 3/23/2011, Clmtyne wrote: Powerbook G4 15, and for some reason after switching to the other user, I noticed that the applications folder had no folders in it. HD / file system corruption perhaps. Run a verify disk pass with Disk Utility; repair if needed. But do this AFTER fixing the memory problem (below). open About this Mac and saw that there is only 1gig of Ram showing. So what happened to the other 1 gig stick of Ram? What causes that and is it common? How do I fix this? Reboot and see if the gig is still AWOL. If it is, then shutdown and reseat the memory. Hopefully it's just been jarred lose a bit... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
I have the latest DVD rip I'm sending to a TiVo, will run on both machines to confirm exact ratio I see. So, the DVD I transcoded from rips, the MDD Dual 1.25 G4 = 115 min, the Quad 2.8 Intel = 19 min. 1/6 the time. It was an 1:35 long DVD, encoded to .mpg for TiVo. Some other format changes seem to have a larger ratio, 8-10 to 1 in some cases. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
Once again this is going off topic but this seems to be the thread for it. One thing that was impressive with the G4 in it's day compared to the P4s of the same time was that you could get similar or better performance from a CPU that used only passive cooling (heatsink). P4s at the time ran crazy hot and we used to joke that Intel would have to start shipping their CPUs with fire extinguishers. Heck with a Prescott P4 80-90 degrees Celsius was considered normal operating temps. Yikes! The core duo based on the Pentium M really saved Intel's bacon. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 6:37 PM, JoeTaxpayer joetaxpaye...@gmail.com wrote: I have the latest DVD rip I'm sending to a TiVo, will run on both machines to confirm exact ratio I see. So, the DVD I transcoded from rips, the MDD Dual 1.25 G4 = 115 min, the Quad 2.8 Intel = 19 min. 1/6 the time. It was an 1:35 long DVD, encoded to .mpg for TiVo. Some other format changes seem to have a larger ratio, 8-10 to 1 in some cases. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: OT OT OT need a reason ?
On 2011/03/23 11:30, Dan so eloquently wrote: I'll betcha a few million quatloos Brother can you spare a quatloo? ;-) Tina -- iMac 20 USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11 PB G4 15 HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.4.11 Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
