Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-10-01 Thread Jörg Duurkoop 
Hi Matthew,

I've installed the Control Panel "Hardware" and the Temperature Monitor app 
on my MDD, it's originally written for the G5. I can see the CPU temp. in 
the menu bar and can switch off one of my CPUs if I don't do 
processor-intensive work so the temp. never gets too high. Both apps are 
freeware. 

I did it so my "wind tunnel" doesn't make too much noise in the summer. 
Just an idea ...

Good luck, Jörg.

 >>Hi, 

So I've got a DualCore 2.3Ghz G5 PowerMac, which I've had for a few 
months now. It seems to have kernel panics when it's left on for several 
hours to a couple days. I was wondering if anyone here could glean 
anything from the error report that comes up after the computer is rebooted.

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Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-30 Thread NODEraser 
Every couple of years, I clean off and re-apply thermal compound for
my CPU coolers. Counter-intuitively, high temperatures contribute to
the breakdown of thermal compounds. Since I am a big grid computing
user, most of my machines run pretty warm for extended periods of
time. I've been using Arctic Silver for a good decade, though I've
been looking at some of the diamond-based compounds and may give one a
try when my current tube of AS5 runs out. I've never tried any of the
specialty cleaners, I typically just use rubbing alcohol.

After cleaning and re-applying the thermal compound, I typically see
temperatures drop at least 5-10 C.

-- 
[Greg Bennett]
-Independent Carpenter, Electrician & Lighting Designer
-Purveyor of Classic Apple & Macintosh Gear
http://www.hsiprodsvcs.com/
http://www.macshack.us/

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Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-28 Thread Kris Tilford 
On Sep 29, 2015, at 12:39 AM, Matthew S. Carpenter 
 wrote:
> 
> acquired myself some Arctic Silver 5 along with the Arctic Clean

I’m sure the Arctic Silver 5 is fine, and seems to have solved your issue, but 
tests indicate pastes with nano-diamonds perform significantly better in heat 
dissipation and high temp before breakdown. I normally don’t think differences 
in thermal pastes are truly significant, but G5 CPU runs very hot, and starts 
glitch badly when overheating. On several G5 iMacs I’ve salvaged, the 
capacitors directly adjacent to the G5 CPU were popped from thermal leakage 
from the hot G5 CPU. There’s an entire line of capacitors, but only those in 
close thermal proximity are popped. After replacing the popped capacitors, this 
is a case where I believe the 10-15% better performance of nano-diamond paste 
is worthwhile & significant. I’ve never had to perform a 2nd repair on any G5 
iMac.

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Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-28 Thread Matthew S. Carpenter 

Hi guys,

Well I had some time to attend do this... I pulled out my PCIe cards, 
and my RAM cards, and for good measure pulled out the CPU/heatsink 
assembly too. I blew it all out... put everything back in... booted up 
to the Apple Diagnostics Disc... discovered I burned the wrong 
version... got the right one in... booted to it... and


...it hit an error trying to run the thermal diagnostics. CPU0 spit out 
a too high temperature error and I got told to re-seat the CPU and to 
replace if it repeated... well I reseated and got the same error... so I 
decided to give something else a try.


I headed off to the magical wonderland of King Fry and acquired myself 
some Arctic Silver 5 along with the Arctic Clean fluid, separated the 
CPU card from the heatsink, cleaned out the existing thermal paste and 
applied Arctic Silver to both the heat sink and CPU using a starbucks 
gift card, who knew, they were good for more than just coffee and 
scones. Then I put it all back together.


After that, it made it through the thermal calibration and a round of 
all the tests in the Diagnostics program with out trouble. Also notably, 
iStat menus seems to be reporting a running temperature for the CPUs 
easily about 20˚C colder than before under like conditions.


I don't know yet if this is going to have a significant impact on 
uptime, but I really really hope it does.


^_^

--
Matthew S. Carpenter

"Stand back! I've got an open power supply and I'm not afraid to do something stupid 
with it!"



On 9/7/15 11:42 AM, Jesse wrote:


Sent from my iPhone




Hi,

So I've got a DualCore 2.3Ghz G5 PowerMac, which I've had for a few months now. 
It seems to have kernel panics when it's left on for several hours to a couple 
days. I was wondering if anyone here could glean anything from the error report 
that comes up after the computer is rebooted.

Interval Since Last Panic Report:  450614 sec
Panics Since Last Report:  1

Sun Sep  6 22:55:41 2015

Right down below.

Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x700 - Program

that it is only reference the second CPU ( in unix/Linux in an smp environment  
is referenced in console as CPU 0 or CPU 1.
You may have just a dirty machine or maybe your fan isn't functioning to spec  
anymore   Also consider digging thru console boot messages, and try to 
align the time in there with any other errors that may have happened around 
that time. Digging around on LEM is also a good way to diagnose this as well, 
resetting apple open firmware, and the smc and so forth is usually a good way 
to tune up, and see what is really wrong with it. Also, get your hands on the 
apple hardware test disk, it's somewhere on the Internet ! Good luck!

DAR=0x5C76F000 PC=0x608576D4
Latest crash info for cpu 1:
   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
  PC=0x608576D4; MSR=0x00089030; DAR=0x5C76F000; DSISR=0x4200; 
LR=0x608576D4; R1=0x60857620; XCP=0x001C (0x700 - Program)
  Backtrace:
0x608576D4
 backtrace terminated - unaligned frame address: 0x608576F8

Proceeding back via exception chain:
   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
  previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
   Exception state (sv=0x6ad77c80)
  PC=0x; MSR=0xD030; DAR=0x; DSISR=0x; 
LR=0x; R1=0x; XCP=0x (Unknown)

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
9L31a

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:57:01 PDT 2009; 
root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_PPC
System model name: PowerMac11,2

System uptime in nanoseconds: 17311234859056
unloaded kexts:
com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last unloaded 22932278293
loaded kexts:
com.sonnettech.SonnetSATABlockStorage2.2.4
com.sonnettech.driver.SonnetSATA2.2.4
com.keyspan.iokit.usb.KeyspanUSAdriver2.5
com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last loaded 20927607837
com.apple.driver.Oxford_Semi2.0.9
com.apple.driver.initioFWBridge2.0.9
com.apple.driver.IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolSansPhysicalUnit 2.0.9
com.apple.driver.StorageLynx2.0.9
com.apple.filesystems.autofs2.0.2
com.apple.driver.AppleTopazAudio2.5.8f1
com.apple.driver.AppleOnyxAudio2.5.8f1
com.apple.GeForcePPC5.4.8
com.apple.iokit.CHUDUtils201
com.apple.iokit.CHUDProf211
com.apple.driver.AudioIPCDriver1.0.6
com.apple.nvidia.nv40halppc5.4.8
com.apple.driver.IOI2CLM7x1.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleHWSensor1.9d0
com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireIP1.7.7
com.apple.driver.AppleK2Driver1.7.2f1
com.apple.driver.PowerMac11_2_PlatformPlugin3.4.0d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim66901.9d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim16311.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleSMUMonitor1.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleI2S1.0.1f1
com.apple.driver.IOI2CSMUSat1.9d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CPulsar1.5.2d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CControllerSMU 1.1.1d2
com.apple.iokit.IOUSBHIDDriver3.4.6
com.apple.driver.AppleUSBMergeNub 3.5.2

Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-07 Thread Kris Tilford 

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Matthew S. Carpenter 
>  wrote:
> 
> unloaded kexts:
> com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last unloaded 22932278293

I have a dual 2.3 G5 and also a lot of earlier PowerMacs that were highly 
upgraded and usually being booted via external Firewire HDs to avoid the slower 
SCSI bus. My experience with LSI brand chipset Firewire external devices was a 
little iffy. AFAIK LSI never provided any firmware updates for their chips, and 
when I used LSI external drives I had some intermittent problems where the 
driver would unmount the HD, which if this was also the boot drive, would 
result in panic. I doubt you’re booting your G5 from an external Firewire HD, 
but if you’ve got an LSI external Firewire HD attached, this might be the 
problem? I have much better luck with Oxford Firewire devices, which were 
generally rock solid as long as the firmware was updated to the latest version.

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PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-07 Thread Matthew S. Carpenter 

Hi,

So I've got a DualCore 2.3Ghz G5 PowerMac, which I've had for a few 
months now. It seems to have kernel panics when it's left on for several 
hours to a couple days. I was wondering if anyone here could glean 
anything from the error report that comes up after the computer is rebooted.


Interval Since Last Panic Report:  450614 sec
Panics Since Last Report:  1

Sun Sep  6 22:55:41 2015


Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x700 - Program DAR=0x5C76F000 
PC=0x608576D4

Latest crash info for cpu 1:
   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
  PC=0x608576D4; MSR=0x00089030; DAR=0x5C76F000; DSISR=0x4200; 
LR=0x608576D4; R1=0x60857620; XCP=0x001C (0x700 - Program)

  Backtrace:
0x608576D4
 backtrace terminated - unaligned frame address: 0x608576F8

Proceeding back via exception chain:
   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
  previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
   Exception state (sv=0x6ad77c80)
  PC=0x; MSR=0xD030; DAR=0x; DSISR=0x; 
LR=0x; R1=0x; XCP=0x (Unknown)


BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task

Mac OS version:
9L31a

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:57:01 PDT 2009; 
root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_PPC

System model name: PowerMac11,2

System uptime in nanoseconds: 17311234859056
unloaded kexts:
com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last unloaded 22932278293
loaded kexts:
com.sonnettech.SonnetSATABlockStorage2.2.4
com.sonnettech.driver.SonnetSATA2.2.4
com.keyspan.iokit.usb.KeyspanUSAdriver2.5
com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last loaded 20927607837
com.apple.driver.Oxford_Semi2.0.9
com.apple.driver.initioFWBridge2.0.9
com.apple.driver.IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolSansPhysicalUnit 2.0.9
com.apple.driver.StorageLynx2.0.9
com.apple.filesystems.autofs2.0.2
com.apple.driver.AppleTopazAudio2.5.8f1
com.apple.driver.AppleOnyxAudio2.5.8f1
com.apple.GeForcePPC5.4.8
com.apple.iokit.CHUDUtils201
com.apple.iokit.CHUDProf211
com.apple.driver.AudioIPCDriver1.0.6
com.apple.nvidia.nv40halppc5.4.8
com.apple.driver.IOI2CLM7x1.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleHWSensor1.9d0
com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireIP1.7.7
com.apple.driver.AppleK2Driver1.7.2f1
com.apple.driver.PowerMac11_2_PlatformPlugin3.4.0d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim66901.9d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim16311.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleSMUMonitor1.9d0
com.apple.driver.AppleI2S1.0.1f1
com.apple.driver.IOI2CSMUSat1.9d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CPulsar1.5.2d0
com.apple.driver.IOI2CControllerSMU1.1.1d2
com.apple.iokit.IOUSBHIDDriver3.4.6
com.apple.driver.AppleUSBMergeNub3.5.2
com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIMultimediaCommandsDevice2.1.1
com.apple.iokit.SCSITaskUserClient2.1.1
com.apple.driver.XsanFilter2.7.91
com.apple.iokit.IOATABlockStorage2.0.6
com.apple.driver.AppleUSBHub3.4.9
com.apple.iokit.IOATAPIProtocolTransport1.5.3
com.apple.iokit.IOUSBUserClient3.5.2
com.apple.driver.AppleK2SATA1.0.4f2
com.apple.driver.AppleGPIO1.3.0d0
com.apple.driver.MacIOGPIO1.3.0d0
com.apple.driver.AppleFWOHCI3.9.7
com.apple.driver.AppleKauaiATA1.2.1f4
com.apple.driver.AppleK2SATARoot1.0.5b1
com.apple.driver.AppleUSBEHCI3.4.6
com.apple.driver.AppleUSBOHCI3.4.6
com.apple.driver.AppleK21.7.2f1
com.apple.driver.AppleMPIC1.5.3
com.apple.driver.AppleI2C4.0.0d2
com.apple.driver.IOI2CControllerPPC1.1.1d2
com.apple.iokit.AppleBCM5701Ethernet2.2.3b1
com.apple.driver.AppleSMU1.2.1d1
com.apple.driver.AppleMacRiscPCI3.4.0
com.apple.driver.AppleFlashNVRAM1.0.5
com.apple.security.seatbelt107.12
com.apple.nke.applicationfirewall1.8.77
com.apple.security.TMSafetyNet3
com.apple.BootCache30.4
com.apple.driver.DiskImages199
com.apple.driver.AppleMacRISC4PE2.0.4d9
com.apple.iokit.CHUDK`


Model: PowerMac11,2, BootROM 5.2.7f1, 2 processors, PowerPC G5 (1.1), 
2.3 GHz, 12 GB
Graphics: kHW_NVidiaGeForce6600Item, GeForce 6600, 
spdisplays_pcie_device, 256 MB

Memory Module: DIMM0/J6700, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Memory Module: DIMM1/J6800, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Memory Module: DIMM2/J6900, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Memory Module: DIMM3/J7000, 2 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Memory Module: DIMM4/J7100, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-3200U-288
Memory Module: DIMM5/J7200, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-3200U-288
Memory Module: DIMM6/J7300, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Memory Module: DIMM7/J7400, 1 GB, DDR2 SDRAM, PC2-4200U-444
Network Service: Ethernet 1, Ethernet, en0
PCI Card: GeForce 6600, display, SLOT-1
PCI Card: Apple 5714, network, GIGE
PCI Card: Apple 5714, network, GIGE
PCI Card: Sonnet Tempo SATA E4i, ata, SLOT-4
Serial ATA Device: WDC WD30EZRX-00DC0B0, 2.73 TB
Serial ATA Device: Hitachi HDS723030ALA640, 2.73 TB
Serial ATA Device: WDC WD30EZRX-00DC0B0, 2.73 TB
Serial ATA Device: ST1000DM003-1ER162, 931.51 GB
Serial ATA Device:

Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-07 Thread Matthew S. Carpenter 
Hrmm... only firewire devices I have connected are a Lexar CompactFlash 
reader, and my Nikon Super Coolscan 4000 ED I'm guessing it's 
probably the CF reader which uses the LSI chipset I could try 
pulling it off the chain.


Matt

On 9/6/15 11:45 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:


On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:09 AM, Matthew S. Carpenter 
> wrote:


unloaded kexts:
com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last unloaded 22932278293


I have a dual 2.3 G5 and also a lot of earlier PowerMacs that were 
highly upgraded and usually being booted via external Firewire HDs to 
avoid the slower SCSI bus. My experience with LSI brand chipset 
Firewire external devices was a little iffy. AFAIK LSI never provided 
any firmware updates for their chips, and when I used LSI external 
drives I had some intermittent problems where the driver would unmount 
the HD, which if this was also the boot drive, would result in panic. 
I doubt you’re booting your G5 from an external Firewire HD, but if 
you’ve got an LSI external Firewire HD attached, this might be the 
problem? I have much better luck with Oxford Firewire devices, which 
were generally rock solid as long as the firmware was updated to the 
latest version.

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for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus 
on Power Macs.
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netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml

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Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-07 Thread Bruce Johnson 

> On Sep 6, 2015, at 11:09 PM, Matthew S. Carpenter 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> So I've got a DualCore 2.3Ghz G5 PowerMac, which I've had for a few months 
> now. It seems to have kernel panics when it's left on for several hours to a 
> couple days. I was wondering if anyone here could glean anything from the 
> error report that comes up after the computer is rebooted.
> 
> Interval Since Last Panic Report:  450614 sec
> Panics Since Last Report:  1

Have you tried the usual pull and reseat RAM, blow off the logic board with 
canned air, reseat all the cables kind of stuff? Something may be getting warm 
enough to disconnect after a while.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Re: PowerMac G5 Kernel Panics after being on for several hours to a day or two.

2015-09-07 Thread Jesse 


Sent from my iPhone



> Hi,
> 
> So I've got a DualCore 2.3Ghz G5 PowerMac, which I've had for a few months 
> now. It seems to have kernel panics when it's left on for several hours to a 
> couple days. I was wondering if anyone here could glean anything from the 
> error report that comes up after the computer is rebooted.
> 
> Interval Since Last Panic Report:  450614 sec
> Panics Since Last Report:  1
> 
> Sun Sep  6 22:55:41 2015 
Right down below. 
> Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 1): 0x700 - Program
that it is only reference the second CPU ( in unix/Linux in an smp environment  
is referenced in console as CPU 0 or CPU 1.   
You may have just a dirty machine or maybe your fan isn't functioning to spec  
anymore   Also consider digging thru console boot messages, and try to 
align the time in there with any other errors that may have happened around 
that time. Digging around on LEM is also a good way to diagnose this as well, 
resetting apple open firmware, and the smc and so forth is usually a good way 
to tune up, and see what is really wrong with it. Also, get your hands on the 
apple hardware test disk, it's somewhere on the Internet ! Good luck!
> DAR=0x5C76F000 PC=0x608576D4
> Latest crash info for cpu 1:
>   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
>  PC=0x608576D4; MSR=0x00089030; DAR=0x5C76F000; DSISR=0x4200; 
> LR=0x608576D4; R1=0x60857620; XCP=0x001C (0x700 - Program)
>  Backtrace:
> 0x608576D4
> backtrace terminated - unaligned frame address: 0x608576F8
> 
> Proceeding back via exception chain:
>   Exception state (sv=0x6b0c4500)
>  previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
>   Exception state (sv=0x6ad77c80)
>  PC=0x; MSR=0xD030; DAR=0x; DSISR=0x; 
> LR=0x; R1=0x; XCP=0x (Unknown)
> 
> BSD process name corresponding to current thread: kernel_task
> 
> Mac OS version:
> 9L31a
> 
> Kernel version:
> Darwin Kernel Version 9.8.0: Wed Jul 15 16:57:01 PDT 2009; 
> root:xnu-1228.15.4~1/RELEASE_PPC
> System model name: PowerMac11,2
> 
> System uptime in nanoseconds: 17311234859056
> unloaded kexts:
> com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last unloaded 22932278293
> loaded kexts:
> com.sonnettech.SonnetSATABlockStorage2.2.4
> com.sonnettech.driver.SonnetSATA2.2.4
> com.keyspan.iokit.usb.KeyspanUSAdriver2.5
> com.apple.driver.LSI_FW_5002.0.9 - last loaded 20927607837
> com.apple.driver.Oxford_Semi2.0.9
> com.apple.driver.initioFWBridge2.0.9
> com.apple.driver.IOFireWireSerialBusProtocolSansPhysicalUnit 2.0.9
> com.apple.driver.StorageLynx2.0.9
> com.apple.filesystems.autofs2.0.2
> com.apple.driver.AppleTopazAudio2.5.8f1
> com.apple.driver.AppleOnyxAudio2.5.8f1
> com.apple.GeForcePPC5.4.8
> com.apple.iokit.CHUDUtils201
> com.apple.iokit.CHUDProf211
> com.apple.driver.AudioIPCDriver1.0.6
> com.apple.nvidia.nv40halppc5.4.8
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CLM7x1.9d0
> com.apple.driver.AppleHWSensor1.9d0
> com.apple.iokit.IOFireWireIP1.7.7
> com.apple.driver.AppleK2Driver1.7.2f1
> com.apple.driver.PowerMac11_2_PlatformPlugin3.4.0d0
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim66901.9d0
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CMaxim16311.9d0
> com.apple.driver.AppleSMUMonitor1.9d0
> com.apple.driver.AppleI2S1.0.1f1
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CSMUSat1.9d0
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CPulsar1.5.2d0
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CControllerSMU 1.1.1d2
> com.apple.iokit.IOUSBHIDDriver3.4.6
> com.apple.driver.AppleUSBMergeNub 3.5.2
> com.apple.iokit.IOSCSIMultimediaCommandsDevice2.1.1
> com.apple.iokit.SCSITaskUserClient2.1.1
> com.apple.driver.XsanFilter2.7.91
> com.apple.iokit.IOATABlockStorage2.0.6
> com.apple.driver.AppleUSBHub3.4.9
> com.apple.iokit.IOATAPIProtocolTransport1.5.3
> com.apple.iokit.IOUSBUserClient3.5.2
> com.apple.driver.AppleK2SATA1.0.4f2
> com.apple.driver.AppleGPIO1.3.0d0
> com.apple.driver.MacIOGPIO1.3.0d0
> com.apple.driver.AppleFWOHCI3.9.7
> com.apple.driver.AppleKauaiATA1.2.1f4
> com.apple.driver.AppleK2SATARoot1.0.5b1
> com.apple.driver.AppleUSBEHCI3.4.6
> com.apple.driver.AppleUSBOHCI3.4.6
> com.apple.driver.AppleK21.7.2f1
> com.apple.driver.AppleMPIC1.5.3
> com.apple.driver.AppleI2C4.0.0d2
> com.apple.driver.IOI2CControllerPPC1.1.1d2
> com.apple.iokit.AppleBCM5701Ethernet2.2.3b1
> com.apple.driver.AppleSMU1.2.1d1
> com.apple.driver.AppleMacRiscPCI3.4.0
> com.apple.driver.AppleFlashNVRAM1.0.5
> com.apple.security.seatbelt107.12
> com.apple.nke.applicationfirewall1.8.77
> com.apple.security.TMSafetyNet3
> com.apple.BootCache30.4
> com.apple.driver.DiskImages199
> com.apple.driver.AppleMacRISC4PE2.0.4d9
> com.apple.iokit.CHUDK`
> 
> 
> Model: PowerMac11,2, BootROM 5.2.7f1, 2 processors, PowerPC G5 (1.1), 2.3 
> GHz, 12 GB
> Graphics: kHW_NVidiaGeForce6600Item, GeForce 6600, spdisplays_pcie_device, 
>