Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Peter]

You probably downloaded the Leopard version. You need the version for Tiger.

Peter M.


Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-Original Message-
From: Jonas Lopez 

Date: Sun, 8 Mar 2009 15:19:29 
To: 
Subject: Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today




I have Safari 3 Version 3.2.1 (4525.27.1) For Safari 4 Beta the Macintosh 
Requirements * Any Mac running Security Update 2009-001 and Mac OS X Leopard 
10.5.6 or Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11. I have 10.4.11, Build 8S165, but it refuses 
to install wanting 10.5 I am G4 Power PC. BUT Software Update reports I am up 
to date?? What is going on?

--- On Sun, 3/8/09, Dan  wrote:

> From: Dan 
> Subject: Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today
> To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 2:10 PM
> At 5:48 PM -0500 3/6/2009, Dan wrote:
> >LOL   Darn voodoo.
> 
> Cookies tasty cookies.
> 
> Don't think about them often enough, I guess,
> 'cause Safari just 
> handles them.  Today I was poking around, and took a look
> at the 
> cookies.  wow.  Amazing how many cookies some companies
> slap on you! 
> Started selectively deleting them, got tired of that, and
> hit Remove 
> All.  All gone.
> 
> OMG.  Safari is s much faster now!
> 
> LOL
> 
> - Dan.
> -- 
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth



  



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Jonas Lopez]

I have Safari 3 Version 3.2.1 (4525.27.1) For Safari 4 Beta the Macintosh 
Requirements * Any Mac running Security Update 2009-001 and Mac OS X Leopard 
10.5.6 or Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11. I have 10.4.11, Build 8S165, but it refuses 
to install wanting 10.5 I am G4 Power PC. BUT Software Update reports I am up 
to date?? What is going on?

--- On Sun, 3/8/09, Dan  wrote:

> From: Dan 
> Subject: Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today
> To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sunday, March 8, 2009, 2:10 PM
> At 5:48 PM -0500 3/6/2009, Dan wrote:
> >LOL   Darn voodoo.
> 
> Cookies tasty cookies.
> 
> Don't think about them often enough, I guess,
> 'cause Safari just 
> handles them.  Today I was poking around, and took a look
> at the 
> cookies.  wow.  Amazing how many cookies some companies
> slap on you! 
> Started selectively deleting them, got tired of that, and
> hit Remove 
> All.  All gone.
> 
> OMG.  Safari is s much faster now!
> 
> LOL
> 
> - Dan.
> -- 
> - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth



  

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 5:48 PM -0500 3/6/2009, Dan wrote:
>LOL   Darn voodoo.

Cookies tasty cookies.

Don't think about them often enough, I guess, 'cause Safari just 
handles them.  Today I was poking around, and took a look at the 
cookies.  wow.  Amazing how many cookies some companies slap on you! 
Started selectively deleting them, got tired of that, and hit Remove 
All.  All gone.

OMG.  Safari is s much faster now!

LOL

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Lawrence David Eden]

Comparing me to a PC User??  I'll try not to get insulted.   :-)


I have the latest Safari on my Mac.as well as Firefox and Opera. 
Both are faster than Safari.
I try to use Safari once in a while, but every time, I am reminded 
why I use Firefox.  Fortunately, it costs nothing to try either.  My 
daughters both use Safari and like it





On Mar 7, 2009, at 7:02 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote:
>
>>
>>  I gave up on Safari long ago in favor of Firefox.  My experience with
>>  Safari was that it took too long to load up.  In fact, sometimes I
>>  had to give it a gentle kick to get it to completely load pages.
>
>
>See, this is sort of the same advice I hear from PC users "Oh I used a
>Mac back in 7th grade...it was crap."
>
>Safari 2 had speed and stability issues, but Safari 3 was a massive
>improvement...in fact Safari 3 was where I dropped Firefox in favor of
>Safari as my main browser, and I'd used Mozilla and Firefox as my
>primary browser since Mozilla 0.6b.
>
>Safari 4 is shaping up to be better still.
>
>None of them stand still, the latest Firefox is nice, much improved
>over the older version, but it's still not enough to tempt me back
>from Safari.
>
>But this is how things improve...healthy competition. This makes me
>despair for Adobe products...there used to be the ongoing race between
>Illustrator and Freehand, which greatly improved both products, but
>there's no real competition for those apps any more. Notice the
>difference between the improvements to Photoshop and the Improvements
>to Lightroom. The latter is a much better app for the competition with
>Aperture. Photoshop just keeps getting bloated. There's a million and
>one cool effects, and scads of amazing tools, but the pressure isn't
>on Adobe to make it a significantly better product.
>
>And Acrobat, well that app is just freaking out of control. The latest
>Adobe Acrobat READER, not the pro app, but READER is a 250+ meg
>downloadand it's gotten nothing but slower and more crash-prone as
>it ages, because there is nothing else that competes.
>
>--
>Bruce Johnson
>
>"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD
>
>
>

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 11:00 AM -0800 3/7/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>Well, I don't know what they are "checking" but I can connect to the
>"old site" using IE 5.2(mac). However that browser won't interface
>with my treadmill, while IE on my old win2k laptop works ok.

Probably an ActiveX control - which is a windoze only thing.

>Sure wish I could puzzle out why.

You could ask them.

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 7 Mar 2009, at 10:12:43 PST, Dan wrote:

> At 5:46 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2009, at 17:14:39 PST, Dan wrote:
>>> At 4:45 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
 Hmmm. How does one go about causing a browser to "report" that
  it is IE6 for Windows?
>>>
>>>  Safari's preferences, Advanced tab, check the box to enable the
>>>  Develop menu.  Then in that Develop menu, select an appropriate  
>>> User
>>> Agent item.
>>
>> Interesting? Never noticed that bit before. However, I still can't
>> "properly" spoof  to see me as IE so that
>> I can use the site. The query reports as a version of Mozilla.
>
> No, it reports it properly, as MSIE.
> Your User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0)
>
> The problem is that their script is looking at more than the user
> agent to lock out Macs specifically.
>
> OTOH, if you go to ifit.com, the site looks quite nice.  It links to
> workout.ifit.com as the "old site".  Perhaps they have a new location
> which you should be using?

Well, I don't know what they are "checking" but I can connect to the
"old site" using IE 5.2(mac). However that browser won't interface
with my treadmill, while IE on my old win2k laptop works ok. Sure wish
I could puzzle out why.

Thanks for the input.

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 5:46 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>On 6 Mar 2009, at 17:14:39 PST, Dan wrote:
>  > At 4:45 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>  >> Hmmm. How does one go about causing a browser to "report" that
>>>  it is IE6 for Windows?
>>
>>  Safari's preferences, Advanced tab, check the box to enable the
>>  Develop menu.  Then in that Develop menu, select an appropriate User
>  > Agent item.
>
>Interesting? Never noticed that bit before. However, I still can't
>"properly" spoof  to see me as IE so that
>I can use the site. The query reports as a version of Mozilla.

No, it reports it properly, as MSIE.
Your User Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0)

The problem is that their script is looking at more than the user 
agent to lock out Macs specifically.

OTOH, if you go to ifit.com, the site looks quite nice.  It links to 
workout.ifit.com as the "old site".  Perhaps they have a new location 
which you should be using?

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Steve R]

At 9:03 AM -0700 3/7/09, Bruce Johnson posted:
>  And Acrobat, well that app is just freaking out of control. The latest
>  Adobe Acrobat READER, not the pro app, but READER is a 250+ meg
>  downloadand it's gotten nothing but slower and more crash-prone as
>  it ages, because there is nothing else that competes.


I'm waiting patiently for Snow Leopard before updating Safari, and 
long ago gave up on Reader when Preview suits my .pdf needs.

Steve R

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:03 PM, Vic wrote:

>> (The issue turned out, in the end, to be a broken entry in their
>> database, nothing to do with Citrix at all)
>
> I seem to recall seeing ICA agents on the Citrix website for Linux, OS
> X, OS 9, and even Maemo (Nokia Internet Tablet)!
> V Mabus



Yes, and other systems in the hospital use these, and the Mac versions  
run just fine, but this was a completely browser-only system, it  
didn't even need the ICA agent, and was several years ago. They've  
gotten much more Mac friendly...funny thing about Doctors, especially  
department heads and the like, demanding that their systems be  
supported.

For all I know it had nothing to do with Citrix, and was a straight-up  
web application, but that's what the hospital IT guy kept saying.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 7, 2009, at 7:02 AM, Lawrence David Eden wrote:

>
> I gave up on Safari long ago in favor of Firefox.  My experience with
> Safari was that it took too long to load up.  In fact, sometimes I
> had to give it a gentle kick to get it to completely load pages.


See, this is sort of the same advice I hear from PC users "Oh I used a  
Mac back in 7th grade...it was crap."

Safari 2 had speed and stability issues, but Safari 3 was a massive  
improvement...in fact Safari 3 was where I dropped Firefox in favor of  
Safari as my main browser, and I'd used Mozilla and Firefox as my  
primary browser since Mozilla 0.6b.

Safari 4 is shaping up to be better still.

None of them stand still, the latest Firefox is nice, much improved  
over the older version, but it's still not enough to tempt me back  
from Safari.

But this is how things improve...healthy competition. This makes me  
despair for Adobe products...there used to be the ongoing race between  
Illustrator and Freehand, which greatly improved both products, but  
there's no real competition for those apps any more. Notice the  
difference between the improvements to Photoshop and the Improvements  
to Lightroom. The latter is a much better app for the competition with  
Aperture. Photoshop just keeps getting bloated. There's a million and  
one cool effects, and scads of amazing tools, but the pressure isn't  
on Adobe to make it a significantly better product.

And Acrobat, well that app is just freaking out of control. The latest  
Adobe Acrobat READER, not the pro app, but READER is a 250+ meg  
downloadand it's gotten nothing but slower and more crash-prone as  
it ages, because there is nothing else that competes.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Lawrence David Eden]

I gave up on Safari long ago in favor of Firefox.  My experience with 
Safari was that it took too long to load up.  In fact, sometimes I 
had to give it a gentle kick to get it to completely load pages.

Browsers that are worth a look:  Camino and Opera are both very quick 
to load pages.




>At 12:42 PM -0600 2/24/2009, Kris Tilford wrote:
>>Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>>
>>
>>
>>It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
>>Leopard & Tiger.
>
>So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?
>
>I've had a few crashes - all in expected places, as they were Flash
>or Java related.  No webcore or javascript crashes so far (knock
>wood).
>
>Tried (again) getting used to the tab-on-the-top feature.  Drove me
>nutz again so I disabled that.
>
>- Dan.
>--
>- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth
>
>

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Vic]

On Mar 6, 2:22 pm, Bruce Johnson  wrote:

> I once spent a half-hour on the phone arguing with an IT "tech" at the  
> hospital who was absolutely convinced beyond any reason that their  
> Citrix app "...would NEVER EVER run on a Mac, no nope just not  
> possible Macs are strange voodoo unknown scary devices wooo!"
>
> As I was looking at their application running just fine on a Macbook  
> running Safari set to ID itself as IE6 for Windows.
>
> (The issue turned out, in the end, to be a broken entry in their  
> database, nothing to do with Citrix at all)

I seem to recall seeing ICA agents on the Citrix website for Linux, OS
X, OS 9, and even Maemo (Nokia Internet Tablet)!
V Mabus
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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 6 Mar 2009, at 17:14:39 PST, Dan wrote:

> At 4:45 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>>
>> Hmmm. How does one go about causing a browser to "report" that
>> it is IE6 for Windows?
>
> Safari's preferences, Advanced tab, check the box to enable the
> Develop menu.  Then in that Develop menu, select an appropriate User
> Agent item.
>
> See also:
> 
>
> And this page is most interesting, as it queries your browser:
> 
--
Interesting? Never noticed that bit before. However, I still can't
"properly" spoof  to see me as IE so that
I can use the site. The query reports as a version of Mozilla.

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 4:45 PM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>
>Hmmm. How does one go about causing a browser to "report" that
>it is IE6 for Windows?

Safari's preferences, Advanced tab, check the box to enable the 
Develop menu.  Then in that Develop menu, select an appropriate User 
Agent item.

See also:


And this page is most interesting, as it queries your browser:


- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 6 Mar 2009, at 14:48:40 PST, Dan wrote:

> At 2:22 PM -0700 3/6/2009, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>> On Mar 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Dan wrote:
>>> Most of the links in hotmail don't work in Safari 4, until you
>>>  change the agent to report that it's not Safari on a Mac.  Then  
>>> they
>>> work fine.
>>
>> Someone smart should make an intelligent user-agent switcher, so we
>> can peg certain sites as 'I have to pretend I'm X at this site'.
>
> I think that's covered in the "Site-specific Hacks", controlled in
> the Develop menu.  Not sure what'all that encompasses tho.
>
>> I once spent a half-hour on the phone arguing with an IT "tech" at  
>> the
>> hospital who was absolutely convinced beyond any reason that their
>> Citrix app "...would NEVER EVER run on a Mac, no nope just not
>> possible Macs are strange voodoo unknown scary devices wooo!"
>>
>> As I was looking at their application running just fine on a Macbook
>> running Safari set to ID itself as IE6 for Windows.
>
> LOL   Darn voodoo.
--
Hmmm. How does one go about causing a browser to "report" that
it is IE6 for Windows?

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 2:22 PM -0700 3/6/2009, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>On Mar 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Dan wrote:
>  > Most of the links in hotmail don't work in Safari 4, until you 
>>  change the agent to report that it's not Safari on a Mac.  Then they
>  > work fine.
>
>Someone smart should make an intelligent user-agent switcher, so we
>can peg certain sites as 'I have to pretend I'm X at this site'.

I think that's covered in the "Site-specific Hacks", controlled in 
the Develop menu.  Not sure what'all that encompasses tho.

>I once spent a half-hour on the phone arguing with an IT "tech" at the 
>hospital who was absolutely convinced beyond any reason that their 
>Citrix app "...would NEVER EVER run on a Mac, no nope just not 
>possible Macs are strange voodoo unknown scary devices wooo!"
>
>As I was looking at their application running just fine on a Macbook 
>running Safari set to ID itself as IE6 for Windows.

LOL   Darn voodoo.

- Dan.
-- 
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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 6, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Dan wrote:

> hum.  Ok.  Chalk that one up to bad site.
>
> Next - hotmail.com
>
> Most of the links in hotmail don't work in Safari 4, until you  
> change the agent to report that it's not Safari on a Mac.  Then they  
> work fine.
>



Someone smart should make an intelligent user-agent switcher, so we  
can peg certain sites as 'I have to pretend I'm X at this site'.

I always have been and remain blessedly hotmail free.

MANY things don't work until you tell the server you're not Safari.  
Also lots of idiot sites that simply check the entire user agent  
string against a list, instead of properly parsing the string will  
either tell you that your browser isn't supported or that it's too  
old, and you should update to Netscape 4 or newer.

I once spent a half-hour on the phone arguing with an IT "tech" at the  
hospital who was absolutely convinced beyond any reason that their  
Citrix app "...would NEVER EVER run on a Mac, no nope just not  
possible Macs are strange voodoo unknown scary devices wooo!"

As I was looking at their application running just fine on a Macbook  
running Safari set to ID itself as IE6 for Windows.

(The issue turned out, in the end, to be a broken entry in their  
database, nothing to do with Citrix at all)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

Title: Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available
today



At 11:38 AM -0700 3/6/2009, Bruce Johnson wrote:
On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Dan
wrote:
>> One thing I've DEFINITELY gotten
used to is the major appearance of
>> 'teh snappy'. WOW it's fast.
>
> A few sites seem very snappy.  But some, like MacDailyNews
seem
> awfully slow.  I think it might be the site tho.

MDN has ALWAYS been a slug for for me on any browser for some
reason, 
with a hair-trigger timeout, too. Back when I was using dial up
at 
home I could only get a page to load about one in four times.

I don't know what they're serving it with, my suspicion is it's a

couple old Performas in a dusty phone
closet somewhere...

hum.  Ok.  Chalk that one up to bad site.

Next - hotmail.com

Most of the links in hotmail don't work in Safari 4, until you
change the agent to report that it's not Safari on a Mac.  Then
they work fine.

- Dan.
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:04 AM, Dan wrote:

>>
>> One thing I've DEFINITELY gotten used to is the major appearance of
>> 'teh snappy'. WOW it's fast.
>
> A few sites seem very snappy.  But some, like MacDailyNews seem
> awfully slow.  I think it might be the site tho.

MDN has ALWAYS been a slug for for me on any browser for some reason,  
with a hair-trigger timeout, too. Back when I was using dial up at  
home I could only get a page to load about one in four times.

I don't know what they're serving it with, my suspicion is it's a  
couple old Performas in a dusty phone closet somewhere...

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 9:46 AM -0700 3/6/2009, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Dan wrote:
>  > So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?
>
>I've had a few crashes of PubSub agent...not sure if that's related, 
>but they only started when I started using the 4 beta. I'm not using 
>Safari as my RSS reader (NetNewsReader REALLY grew on me fast), I 
>should dump my RSS bookmarks; which will probably fix things.

Oh yea.  Me too.  Dumping the rss bookmarks made it go away.  Using 
NetNewsWire all the time now.

>I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple's using Safari to 'test drive' 
>some UI stuff for 10.6.

yea, probably.

>One thing I've DEFINITELY gotten used to is the major appearance of
>'teh snappy'. WOW it's fast.

A few sites seem very snappy.  But some, like MacDailyNews seem 
awfully slow.  I think it might be the site tho.

- Dan.
-- 
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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[joe]

On Mar 6, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Dan wrote:

> So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?

It's still the stablest browser I've used in a while.

I've got the weird invisible text in Mail, and also the problem of  
opening links in Mail (if Webkit/Safari is already open, clicking a  
link in Mail opens a second instance of it).

But the trade off is worth it to me!


==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 6 Mar 2009, at 08:13:06 PST, Dan wrote:

> At 6:56 AM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>> I had to uninstall. Screwed up message display in Mail.
>> (10.4.11, MDD/dual 1.25)
>
> Mail uses WebKit, not all of Safari.
>
> What in particular did it screw up?
>
> - Dan.
--
Opening a message in Mail had unpredictable results. Many
would only display a few lines. Doing a "select all" to
highlight the message would reveal the contents. The uninstall
"corrected" the problem.

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:48 AM, Dan wrote:

>
> At 12:42 PM -0600 2/24/2009, Kris Tilford wrote:
>> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>>
>> 
>>
>> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
>> Leopard & Tiger.
>
> So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?
>
> I've had a few crashes - all in expected places, as they were Flash
> or Java related.  No webcore or javascript crashes so far (knock
> wood).
>
> Tried (again) getting used to the tab-on-the-top feature.  Drove me
> nutz again so I disabled that.

I've had a few crashes of PubSub agent...not sure if that's related,  
but they only started when I started using the 4 beta. I'm not using  
Safari as my RSS reader (NetNewsReader REALLY grew on me fast), I  
should dump my RSS bookmarks; which will probably fix things.

'Click to Flash' is working wonderfully for me, so I'm not being  
exposed to any flash related problems, no Javascript issues I've seen  
so far, and it hasn't crashed a single time.

I've approached the 'tabs on the top of the window' issue like I did  
the loss of Windowshade or the loss of the Apple Menu and appearance  
of the Dock in OS X...resisted the urge to go back. I'm getting used  
to them and in a month, I'll think no differently than I did when tabs  
themselves were new.

The thing that's causing me issues isn't the placement, but the X- 
windows-like activation of the tabs when I mouse over them. The sudden  
appearance of the delete icon tends to draw the fingers to that spot  
to click on it to pull that tab to the front. It's a 'Hey. pay  
attention to ME' kind of thing.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Apple's using Safari to 'test drive'  
some UI stuff for 10.6.

One thing I've DEFINITELY gotten used to is the major appearance of  
'teh snappy'. WOW it's fast.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 6:56 AM -0800 3/6/2009, Ken Daggett wrote:
>I had to uninstall. Screwed up message display in Mail.
>(10.4.11, MDD/dual 1.25)

Mail uses WebKit, not all of Safari.

What in particular did it screw up?

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 6 Mar 2009, at 06:48:51 PST, Dan wrote:

> At 12:42 PM -0600 2/24/2009, Kris Tilford wrote:
>> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>>
>> 
>>
>> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
>> Leopard & Tiger.
>
> So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?
>
> I've had a few crashes - all in expected places, as they were Flash
> or Java related.  No webcore or javascript crashes so far (knock
> wood).
>
> Tried (again) getting used to the tab-on-the-top feature.  Drove me
> nutz again so I disabled that.
---
I had to uninstall. Screwed up message display in Mail.
(10.4.11, MDD/dual 1.25)

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

At 12:42 PM -0600 2/24/2009, Kris Tilford wrote:
>Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>
>
>
>It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for 
>Leopard & Tiger.

So how goes everyone's Safari 4 experiences?

I've had a few crashes - all in expected places, as they were Flash 
or Java related.  No webcore or javascript crashes so far (knock 
wood).

Tried (again) getting used to the tab-on-the-top feature.  Drove me 
nutz again so I disabled that.

- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bucky]

On Feb 24, 1:42 pm, Kris Tilford  wrote:
> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>
> 
>
> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for  
> Leopard & Tiger.
>
> My first impressions are bad. As usual, new eye candy, a fancy "Top  
> Spots" page that curves a miniature wallpaper of your most visited  
> webpages across a window, but the elimination of the Stop/Reload  
> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning  
> thingy with no option except closing the tab. It did score 100 on  
> Acid3, but initially stalled on several tests so that the progress was  
> very uneven and REALLY slow. Upon subsequent tests it loaded almost  
> instantly, as if it were using a cache rather than rerunning the test?  
> (The cache is set to zero).

I already saw Bruce's comment on the spinning thingy. so I wont go
there.

My first question is what is the real name for that anyways? Though
"spinning thingy" works quite nicely.


I have been fairly pleased with so far. I would like to see the blue
loading bar come back, though keeping the other loading indicators the
same. Past that I like how it is setup by default. but I do think it
would be beneficial to at least have separate address bar/add
bookmarks/stop-reload buttons in addition to the default much like
what is already seen in Mail. Like the Reply/Reply All/Forward
button set for example. Performance according to my experience is
quite nice, I have it running on an intel iMac and a  500Mhz Pismo.
The extras are removed on the Pismo, but the extras are by no means
the defining factor.

   And as an extra, I have been able to get much better adoption from
the Winders users in the family from IE. Something which Firefox did
not in its default form. To quote one "Firefox is really not any
different from the Big Blue E so what's the point".  windowsSafari 4
drops the previous pseudo Aqua and uses the native UI for the
respective OS. Doesn't effect OS X users but makes windows users happy
(ier).

Top Sites needs a lot more work, there needs to be some better
controls for customization, and there needs to be a better way of
adding sites than pulling up the desired website in a separate window
and dragging the address icon into Top Sites in edit mode.  I'd of
NEVER figured that out on my own.

Bucky.

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Ken Daggett]

On 28 Feb 2009, at 11:15:32 PST, Dan wrote:

> A word about that installation package:  Wow.  Check your logs.   
> This is NOT a "clean" beta test, like we've come to know and love  
> with other apps.  It is *destructive*.  After making an archive of  
> a few pieces, Apple replaces the webkit framework installed in / 
> Library with one that's newer than their norm but still ancient  
> (and buggy!) compared to WebKit Nightly.  THEN they fark with every  
> other application on your system that uses WebKit -- including  
> Mail.  Then they give you the new Safari.app.
>
-
Thanks! I installed the beta when it first was mentioned here. Seemed  
to run as well and as fast as v3.2.1. However I have been getting  
messages in Mail that only "half appeared" unless the whole message  
was highlighted. Attributed this to some Yahoo! oddity. I ran the  
uninstaller for the beta and things seem to be back to normal.

Ken
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gt1w/stackomacs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[joe]

On Feb 28, 2009, at 1:15 PM, Dan wrote:

>
> I'm a bit late jumping in.  Was in the middle of some production  
> work - didn't want to risk applecramp until it was done.
>
> I did the normal flak-jacket install -- full backup, verify disk,  
> repair permissions, install, watch the reboot hang because Apple is  
> too stupid to get the timing right when clearing caches, enter  
> single-user mode, clear caches and vm with applejack, reboot, life  
> is good...
>
> A word about that installation package:  Wow.  Check your logs.   
> This is NOT a "clean" beta test, like we've come to know and love  
> with other apps.  It is *destructive*.  After making an archive of  
> a few pieces, Apple replaces the webkit framework installed in / 
> Library with one that's newer than their norm but still ancient  
> (and buggy!) compared to WebKit Nightly.  THEN they fark with every  
> other application on your system that uses WebKit -- including  
> Mail.  Then they give you the new Safari.app.
>
> IOW, this beta does not affect just Safari.  It has the potential  
> to fark MANY other apps.  So BE CAREFUL.
>
>> My first impressions are bad. As usual, new eye candy, a fancy "Top
>> Spots" page that curves a miniature wallpaper of your most visited
>> webpages across a window
>
> On my Smurf, Safari 4 happily decides I'm too slow to see such. LOL
>
> On faster Macs, that eye-candy is all abysmally slow.  Bad  
> implementation of unnecessary features, IMO.

My experience has been darn near the opposite of yours.

I simply downloaded and ran the installer, and it's been by far the  
best, fastest and least crashy browser I've used in some time. (I'm  
using it with Webkit.)  I still don't get a 100% acid test, but I'm  
sure that's because of some plug-ins I'm not willing to give up  
(mostly likely Flash--though I'm also using ClickToFlash, and have  
been happy with that).

The only complaint I have is that when I click on a link from Mail,  
it opens a second instance of Webkit/Safari (both using Safari 4).
I tried resetting the default browser (from Safari), but it already  
said "Webkit" and re-selecting it didn't stop the problem.

I generally don't like extra bells and whistles, but I find myself  
using the "top spots" curve wallpaper thing.  (It's optional--you  
don't have to display it or make it your default new tab or window.)   
I surely wouldn't describe mine as one of the faster Macs -- an aging  
G4 AGP with a 1.4 ghz cpu.   Yet it's not at all slow (as I thought  
it would be).

Joe
==
Joe the Juggler
4148 Wyoming St.
St. Louis, MO 63116
(314) 771-3243
http://joethejuggler.com
==




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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Dan]

Title: Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available
today



At 12:42 PM -0600 2/24/2009, Kris Tilford wrote:
Safari 4 Public Beta is available
today:

I'm a bit late jumping in.  Was in the middle of some
production work - didn't want to risk applecramp until it was
done.

I did the normal flak-jacket install -- full backup, verify disk,
repair permissions, install, watch the reboot hang because Apple is
too stupid to get the timing right when clearing caches, enter
single-user mode, clear caches and vm with applejack, reboot, life is
good...

A word about that installation package:  Wow.  Check
your logs.  This is NOT a "clean" beta test, like we've
come to know and love with other apps.  It is *destructive*. 
After making an archive of a few pieces, Apple replaces the webkit
framework installed in /Library with one that's newer than their norm
but still ancient (and buggy!) compared to WebKit Nightly.  THEN
they fark with every other application on your system that uses WebKit
-- including Mail.  Then they give you the new Safari.app.

IOW, this beta does not affect just Safari.  It has the
potential to fark MANY other apps.  So BE CAREFUL.

My first impressions are bad. As usual,
new eye candy, a fancy "Top 
Spots" page that curves a miniature wallpaper of your most
visited 
webpages across a window

On my Smurf, Safari 4 happily decides I'm too slow to see such.
LOL

On faster Macs, that eye-candy is all abysmally slow.  Bad
implementation of unnecessary features, IMO.

At first, I found Safari 4 to be noticeably slower than Safari
3.2.1 with WebKit Nightly.  Then I went poking around in the
preferences ... I had turned off the fraudulent site checking in
Safari 3, but it seems the install turned it back on.  After
fixing that and other settings - Safari 4 got speedy.

Be careful with various plug-ins and inputmanagers -- some will
be incompatible with Safari 4.  FWIW, I've found that SafariBlock
*is* compatible.

the elimination of the Stop/Reload button
from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning

thingy with no option except closing the
tab.

Bad Apple.  Bad bad bad design.  WIthout that progress
bar, you're sitting there in the dark.  Luckily most of the bad
design can be backed out...

Customize the toolbar to restore the top/reload button.

To move the tab bar back to the position in was in Safari
3:
  defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop
-bool NO

To move the tab bar back to the top:
  defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop
-bool YES

To bring back the inline progress loading indicator:
  defaults write com.apple.Safari
DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool NO
  defaults write com.apple.Safari
DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool NO

(I know, those defaults commands have been published elsewhere; I
just want to repeat them for the folx that missed all the articles
etc.   Simon!  I liked your Safari 4 article!)

It did score 100 on Acid3, but initially
stalled on several tests so that the progress was very uneven and
REALLY slow. Upon subsequent tests it loaded almost instantly, as if
it were using a cache rather than rerunning the test? 

A symptom of using an out-of-date webkit build.  Bad Apple. 
Bad bad bad.

At 7:41 PM -0500 2/24/2009, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote:
Apple is saying it is the fastest browser
ever?

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/24/tech-safari.html

I did my own subjective tests.  Safari 4 as-distributed
seems a tad faster than Safari 3 with WebKit Nightly.  But not
much faster.  Safari 4 with WebKit Nightly is faster still.

 Apple has spammed a lot of PR around taking credit
for Safari's speed.  I guess that's their right, since the top of
Safari is their app, after all.  But most of the speed ups are
coming from the open source folx that worked VERY hard on things like
WebKit.  I haven't seen Apple giving them any credit for that. 
Big Corp Mentality, I guess.  sigh.


At 10:17 AM -0600 2/25/2009, George R. Hozendorf wrote:

And why move the tabs to the top of the
screen?

On wide screens, it makes sense to try to squeeze all the
vertical space you can.  IMO, it's bad design.  Now you
cannot ever see the full page title, if you have lots of tabs open. 
AND you have to mouse further.  That seems trivial until you
consider how many times you have to that xtra inch.  I guess
drumming up more business for carpel tunnel doctors is a Good
Thing.   /me puts his Martha hat back on the shelf.


At 11:43 AM -0500 2/25/2009, Mark wrote:

wow
cmd + & - enlarges and reduces
EVERYTHING - not just the type.

I have to admit... This particular change - seeing frames being
expanded so *quickly* - really caught my eye!  Took me a while to
get used to it, but I'm thinking this is the best improvement in the
whole beta!

FWIW,
- Dan.
-- 

- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth

--~--~-~--~~~---~

Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:30 PM, George R. Hozendorf wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>
>> If you really don't like the tabs on the top of the screen thing run
>> this command in terminal and restart Safari:
>>
>> defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE
>>
>> H/T Mac OSX Hints
>>
>>
>> --   
>> Bruce Johnson
>> University of Arizona
>> College of Pharmacy
>> Information Technology Group
>>
>> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs
>
> Thanks Bruce.  My previous eMail about the Add Bookmark icon was a
> late night brain fart.  What I'd like to see, but can't get the add-on
> to work consistently is an icon for New Tab.

Well at Mac OSX hints today is a bunch of different S4b hacks.

My fingers long ago learned the Command-T autonomous twitch, beats an  
icon every time. Of course I was well trained to that by Firefox, long  
before Safari offered tabs.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[George R. Hozendorf]

On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
> If you really don't like the tabs on the top of the screen thing run
> this command in terminal and restart Safari:
>
> defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE
>
> H/T Mac OSX Hints
>
>
> --  
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

Thanks Bruce.  My previous eMail about the Add Bookmark icon was a  
late night brain fart.  What I'd like to see, but can't get the add-on  
to work consistently is an icon for New Tab.
>
>
>
>
> >


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

If you really don't like the tabs on the top of the screen thing run  
this command in terminal and restart Safari:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE

H/T Mac OSX Hints


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Mark]

George R. Hozendorf wrote:
> On Feb 25, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>   
>> On Feb 24, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
>>> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
>>> thingy with no option except closing the tab.
>>>   
>> Clicking on the spinning thingy, which stops the loading, or at least
>> briefly displays an X...possibly it's a "This is why we call it a BETA
>> folks!" thing.
>>
>> Hard to tell, when I hit all my usual 'slow to load' sites, they
>> loaded too fast for me to stop 'em, one of the 'hazards' of having a
>> gigabit pipe to the world ... My home internet connection is a lot
>> slower. I'll test it there.
>>
>> --  
>> Bruce Johnson
>>
>> 
>
> And why move the tabs to the top of the screen?
>   
>> 
wow
cmd + & - enlarges and reduces EVERYTHING - not just the type.

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Jim Scott]

>
> On Feb 25, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:
>>
>>> but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
>>> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
>>> thingy with no option except closing the tab.
>>
>> Clicking on the spinning thingy, which stops the loading, or at least
>> briefly displays an X...possibly it's a "This is why we call it a  
>> BETA
>> folks!" thing.
>>
>> Hard to tell, when I hit all my usual 'slow to load' sites, they
>> loaded too fast for me to stop 'em, one of the 'hazards' of having a
>> gigabit pipe to the world ... My home internet connection is a lot
>> slower. I'll test it there.
>>

Take a deep breath, then look at the far right end of the address bar  
space, and there you'll find the relocated reload/stop icon. Apple has  
given the function a new and permanent "home."

-- Jim Scott

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[George R. Hozendorf]

On Feb 25, 2009, at 9:39 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 24, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:
>
>> but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
>> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
>> thingy with no option except closing the tab.
>
> Clicking on the spinning thingy, which stops the loading, or at least
> briefly displays an X...possibly it's a "This is why we call it a BETA
> folks!" thing.
>
> Hard to tell, when I hit all my usual 'slow to load' sites, they
> loaded too fast for me to stop 'em, one of the 'hazards' of having a
> gigabit pipe to the world ... My home internet connection is a lot
> slower. I'll test it there.
>
> --  
> Bruce Johnson
> University of Arizona
> College of Pharmacy
> Information Technology Group
>
> Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

And why move the tabs to the top of the screen?
>
>
>
> >


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

I did just realize something. I've been playing with my new iPod Touch  
WAY too much.

I went into the CoverFlow-like history browser in Safari 4, swiped my  
finger across my iMac's screen and sputtered for a moment that Apple  
were such BOZOS that that simple thing like that was broken

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 24, 2009, at 11:42 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

> but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
> thingy with no option except closing the tab.

Clicking on the spinning thingy, which stops the loading, or at least  
briefly displays an X...possibly it's a "This is why we call it a BETA  
folks!" thing.

Hard to tell, when I hit all my usual 'slow to load' sites, they  
loaded too fast for me to stop 'em, one of the 'hazards' of having a  
gigabit pipe to the world ... My home internet connection is a lot  
slower. I'll test it there.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[George R. Hozendorf]

On Feb 24, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:

>
> On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Wilton Shaw wrote:
>
>>> I restarted my computer and everything ran smoothly.
>
> Not quite.
>
> Your reply was included within the quote of Bruce's comments, as if
> Bruce had written it and your reply was blank.
>
> > Well, once what the new Safari thinks my favorite sites are I  
> discovered a feature I'd tried with a plug in that didn't work.   
> Check out the plus sign to the left of the address block.  "Add a  
> bookmark for the current page."  Been wanting that little feature  
> for a long time.


Mac OS X 10.5.6
Mac Mini 1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Memory 2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:00 PM, Wilton Shaw wrote:

>> I restarted my computer and everything ran smoothly.

Not quite.

Your reply was included within the quote of Bruce's comments, as if  
Bruce had written it and your reply was blank.

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Wilton Shaw]

>
> I'm beginning to suspect that you have something wrong with your
> internet connectivity, Wilton...this isn't the first time you've had
> odd problems like this.
>
> FWIW, It downloaded right away for me, clicking the download button
> started the download (I could see it in my Downloads window) and it
> took me to another page.
>
> You DID look in your Downloads folder, didn't you?
>
> Thanks for your suggestions, but I tried the old standby. I  
> restarted my computer and everything ran smoothly.
> -- 

Wilton Shaw
whs...@verizon.net




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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Wallace Adrian D'Alessio]

On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Kris Tilford  wrote:

>
> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>
> 
>
> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
> Leopard & Tiger.
>
> My first impressions are bad. As usual, new eye candy, a fancy "Top
> Spots" page that curves a miniature wallpaper of your most visited
> webpages across a window, but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
> thingy with no option except closing the tab. It did score 100 on
> Acid3, but initially stalled on several tests so that the progress was
> very uneven and REALLY slow. Upon subsequent tests it loaded almost
> instantly, as if it were using a cache rather than rerunning the test?
> (The cache is set to zero).
>
> --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
>

Apple is saying it is the fastest browser ever?

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/02/24/tech-safari.html

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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Trinette Rani Johnson]

I know this version changed since we beta testers and those whom  
managed to get the beta from those who leaked it. I have the older  
betas,and this one looks bloated and confusing.
Where did SAVE TO WEB APPLICATION go?
Is it the new SAVE AS WEB ARCHIVE? God, I am afraid to try the new  
one,as my current version from Apple as (4528.1)is working fine.
*bites nails*

On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:

>
> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>
> 
>
> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
> Leopard & Tiger.
>
> My first impressions are bad. As usual, new eye candy, a fancy "Top
> Spots" page that curves a miniature wallpaper of your most visited
> webpages across a window, but the elimination of the Stop/Reload
> button from the toolbar is crazy. You're stuck watching a spinning
> thingy with no option except closing the tab. It did score 100 on
> Acid3, but initially stalled on several tests so that the progress was
> very uneven and REALLY slow. Upon subsequent tests it loaded almost
> instantly, as if it were using a cache rather than rerunning the test?
> (The cache is set to zero).
>
> >


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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 24, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Wilton Shaw wrote:

>
> Your lucky,
>
> I can't even get it to load on my eMac, using 10.5.6. I push all the
> downloads, but it never responds.


I'm beginning to suspect that you have something wrong with your  
internet connectivity, Wilton...this isn't the first time you've had  
odd problems like this.

FWIW, It downloaded right away for me, clicking the download button  
started the download (I could see it in my Downloads window) and it  
took me to another page.

You DID look in your Downloads folder, didn't you?


-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Safari 4 Public Beta available today

[Wilton Shaw]

Your lucky,

I can't even get it to load on my eMac, using 10.5.6. I push all the  
downloads, but it never responds.


Wilton

On Feb 24, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:

>
> Safari 4 Public Beta is available today:
>
> 
>
> It requires 10.5.6 or 10.4.11 and comes in separate versions for
> Leopard & Tiger.
>
>

Wilton Shaw
whs...@verizon.net




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