Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001? [SOLVED]
Hello PeterH! On Monday, 20th of July 2009, PeterH wrote: > On Jul 19, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: > > Anyway, I used this script (to make things more easy): > > http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata- > > hard-drives.html > > From which I quote: > > > "Finally IOATAController::issueCommand in IOATAFamily-173.3.1/ > IOATAController.cpp splits an Extended LBA into two halves and sends > them one after the other. This shows that 48-bit addressing is just a > protocol extension designed to be compatible with older hardware". > > > Perhaps an oversimplification. > > A large drive EXPECTS two CDBs (command data buffers, logically a > "command control block" or data structure), but should it receive > just one, then it assumes the high order bits are all zeros, and then > the drive defaults the command to the first 131,072 MB. > > However, the drive also ACCEPTS two CDBs, in which case the first > provides the lower-order 24 bits while the second provides the higher- > order 24 bits. > > This is really an issue between the old, unmodified O.F., which can > only provide the first CDB and the new, modified O.F., which provides > both CDBs. > > The fact that the drives all seem to accept a single CDB, the first > one, and then to default to LBA24 mode, is indeed fortuitous. > > However, there is really no reason to artificially limit one's self > to LBA24 as the LBA48 properties can be added persistently (that is, > permanently, until the next "reset-nvram" O.F. command has been issued). > > For, if you NEVER issue the "reset-nvram" O.F. command, then your pre- > QS 2002 machine will ALWAYS have LBA48 enabled. Quite right. Once the nvram has been altered the change is permanent, until you reset the non-volatile memory. The only issue I don't quite get is that the Mac OS X kernel extension doesn't overcome this limitation all by itself. The driver must know that this is only a device property problem and could therefor change it accordingly. Anyway, thanks for all the facts about this. I really appreciate it. And I'm happy that my pre-QS2002 now features LBA48 support and therefor drives >128 GB. I googled a lot and didn't find this workaround very easily. I'm not sure if that much people know about it. At least I found a lot of QS2002 related items on eBay that are advertised with >128 GB hard drive support. If you don't know why you will end up paying more without it really being necessary. A QS2001 would do as well and will be cheaper. Thanks, Mac User #330250 aka Andreas --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001? [SOLVED]
Hi! On Monday, 20th of July 2009, Clark Martin wrote: > Mac User #330250 wrote: > > Hello PeterH! > > Hi everyone! > > > > On Sunday, 19th of July 2009, PeterH wrote: > >> Practically, is has been possible to add the required LBA48 > >> properties to the Open Firmware facility for quite a number of G4 > >> Macs, and possibly also for ALL "New World" Macs, of which the very > >> first was the B&W G3. > >> > >> The LBA48 properties are free, and work on any supported MacOS X. > > > > Thanks! That worked. > > So in the end the KeyLargo driver works anyway, but checks the Open > > Firmware properties and refuses to support LBA-48 if such is not found. > > Nice. I would have thought that Apple made the driver > > (AppleKeyLargo.kext) realize that EVERY KeyLargo ATA-5 and ATA-3 bus > > supports this and thus would activate it, with or without an Open > > Firmware device property. > > The OS X driver doesn't load until later. The OF patch loads before the > HD is accessed. What would happen if, for example, AppleKeyLargo.kext > was stored above 128Gb. Or any other file that needs to load before > that driver. The OF patch doesn't load. It is not a driver, it is just a device property. The fact that it is so easily rewritten with a change to the nvram (Non-volatile random access memory) makes me even more angry that the AppleKeyLargo kernel extension (.kext, aka driver) doesn't make this happen all by itself. To me (*IMHO*) this is a fake limitation, as there really is no limitation to "New World" Power Macs before the Quicksilver 2002. Greetings, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001?
While i do know from experience that "ata hi-cap driver" does work well, I would recommend either a firewire enclosure or a pci ata or sata card. -Jonas On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:37 PM, PeterH wrote: > > > On Jul 19, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Bill Connelly wrote: > > > Meant to add, I recently chose to buy a Firmtek Seritek SATA PCI card > > and 1TB SATA Seagate HD from OWC to solve the issue in my Digital > > Audio Dual 533. > > ANY iSAT or eSATA implementation implicitly provides LBA48, as all > such implementations were LBA48 from the git-go. > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001? [SOLVED]
On Jul 19, 2009, at 2:51 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: > Anyway, I used this script (to make things more easy): > http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata- > hard-drives.html > From which I quote: "Finally IOATAController::issueCommand in IOATAFamily-173.3.1/ IOATAController.cpp splits an Extended LBA into two halves and sends them one after the other. This shows that 48-bit addressing is just a protocol extension designed to be compatible with older hardware". Perhaps an oversimplification. A large drive EXPECTS two CDBs (command data buffers, logically a "command control block" or data structure), but should it receive just one, then it assumes the high order bits are all zeros, and then the drive defaults the command to the first 131,072 MB. However, the drive also ACCEPTS two CDBs, in which case the first provides the lower-order 24 bits while the second provides the higher- order 24 bits. This is really an issue between the old, unmodified O.F., which can only provide the first CDB and the new, modified O.F., which provides both CDBs. The fact that the drives all seem to accept a single CDB, the first one, and then to default to LBA24 mode, is indeed fortuitous. However, there is really no reason to artificially limit one's self to LBA24 as the LBA48 properties can be added persistently (that is, permanently, until the next "reset-nvram" O.F. command has been issued). For, if you NEVER issue the "reset-nvram" O.F. command, then your pre- QS 2002 machine will ALWAYS have LBA48 enabled. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001? [SOLVED]
Mac User #330250 wrote: > Hello PeterH! > Hi everyone! > > On Sunday, 19th of July 2009, PeterH wrote: >> Practically, is has been possible to add the required LBA48 >> properties to the Open Firmware facility for quite a number of G4 >> Macs, and possibly also for ALL "New World" Macs, of which the very >> first was the B&W G3. >> >> The LBA48 properties are free, and work on any supported MacOS X. > > Thanks! That worked. > So in the end the KeyLargo driver works anyway, but checks the Open Firmware > properties and refuses to support LBA-48 if such is not found. Nice. > I would have thought that Apple made the driver (AppleKeyLargo.kext) realize > that EVERY KeyLargo ATA-5 and ATA-3 bus supports this and thus would activate > it, with or without an Open Firmware device property. The OS X driver doesn't load until later. The OF patch loads before the HD is accessed. What would happen if, for example, AppleKeyLargo.kext was stored above 128Gb. Or any other file that needs to load before that driver. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001? [SOLVED]
Hello PeterH! Hi everyone! On Sunday, 19th of July 2009, PeterH wrote: > Practically, is has been possible to add the required LBA48 > properties to the Open Firmware facility for quite a number of G4 > Macs, and possibly also for ALL "New World" Macs, of which the very > first was the B&W G3. > > The LBA48 properties are free, and work on any supported MacOS X. Thanks! That worked. So in the end the KeyLargo driver works anyway, but checks the Open Firmware properties and refuses to support LBA-48 if such is not found. Nice. I would have thought that Apple made the driver (AppleKeyLargo.kext) realize that EVERY KeyLargo ATA-5 and ATA-3 bus supports this and thus would activate it, with or without an Open Firmware device property. Anyway, I used this script (to make things more easy): http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard-drives.html > The "High Cap" kext is a useful tool, but it has had a number of > revisions, and only the latest is usable on Leopard. The earlier > versions DO NOT SUPPORT Leopard. > > You can choose to buy the latest version of "High Cap", but I would > not do so. I use Tiger, at least for the time. When Snow Leopard is out (too soon, as I am really just starting to use the PowerPC Macs) I might reconsider and update to Leopard. Let's see. Thanks for the advice. I wouldn't have bought the driver -- too unsure if it doesn't complicate things. As my main operating system will stay Linux it wouldn't have made too much sense anyway. As for Mac OS 9 - if I should ever manage to prepare a partition for a standalone OS 9.2.2 (as the CPU Upgrade requires at least 9.2.1) I will make sure it is below the 128 GB barrier. And I would have been eager to test System 7 as well... So I will continue with SheepShaver... Thanks for the quick responses! Mac User #330250 alias Andreas. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001?
On Jul 19, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Bill Connelly wrote: > Meant to add, I recently chose to buy a Firmtek Seritek SATA PCI card > and 1TB SATA Seagate HD from OWC to solve the issue in my Digital > Audio Dual 533. ANY iSAT or eSATA implementation implicitly provides LBA48, as all such implementations were LBA48 from the git-go. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001?
On Jul 19, 2009, at 5:03 PM, Bill Connelly wrote: > > It can be overcome with an Open Firmware update, or an IDE PCI > controller card. Meant to add, I recently chose to buy a Firmtek Seritek SATA PCI card and 1TB SATA Seagate HD from OWC to solve the issue in my Digital Audio Dual 533. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001?
On Jul 19, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: > I would like to know if the limit of the pre-Quicksilver 2002 Power > Macs is a > hard limit or whether it can be managed to access beyond this barrier. Officially, the pre-QS 2002 ROM DOES NOT SUPPORT LBA48. Practically, is has been possible to add the required LBA48 properties to the Open Firmware facility for quite a number of G4 Macs, and possibly also for ALL "New World" Macs, of which the very first was the B&W G3. Certainly, the "High Cap" kext works on all G3, ..., QS 2001 Macs. But, that kext works only after booting has been completed, and MacOS is fully operational. The LBA48 properties are always available, even during booting, as these are added to the ROM image. The "High Cap" kext is a useful tool, but it has had a number of revisions, and only the latest is usable on Leopard. The earlier versions DO NOT SUPPORT Leopard. The LBA48 properties are usable on ANY MacOS, even Leopard (but not on Snow Lepoard, as, obviously, Snow Leopard officially drops support for PPCs). You can choose to buy the latest version of "High Cap", but I would not do so. The LBA48 properties are free, and work on any supported MacOS X. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: large HDDs: 128 GB limit on Quicksilver 2001?
Search the G3-G5 list for "LBA48" and you'll see several good discussions. Also get the free Mactracker from: http://www.mactracker.ca/ And it will show you your G4 does have the limitation. It can be overcome with an Open Firmware update, or an IDE PCI controller card. You might also investigate Overdrive: http://mac.profusehost.net/overdrive/index.html --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
